1. TR, HRs and GFs need to stop getting their weapon damage increased at this point. For at least the next set of weapons they are insane right now. 2. Probably should make healing insignias a bit weaker alot of people still don't even have lifesteal and heal as much as me with 31% lifesteal on my GWF and with 2 healing insignias. 3. Needs to be WAY LESS PIERCING DAMAGE whats the point of PVP armor when it just gets pierced and you die in one or two hits from rogues/hrs?
These are just the same masturbatory nerf requests that people make because they feel like their class is getting shafted. They've got nothing to do with actually fixing PvP because every time the devs make small changes like this PvP is still terrible and the majority of the player population is going to continue to ignore it.
1. TR, HRs and GFs need to stop getting their weapon damage increased at this point. For at least the next set of weapons they are insane right now. 2. Probably should make healing insignias a bit weaker alot of people still don't even have lifesteal and heal as much as me with 31% lifesteal on my GWF and with 2 healing insignias. 3. Needs to be WAY LESS PIERCING DAMAGE whats the point of PVP armor when it just gets pierced and you die in one or two hits from rogues/hrs?
These are just the same masturbatory nerf requests that people make because they feel like their class is getting shafted. They've got nothing to do with actually fixing PvP because every time the devs make small changes like this PvP is still terrible and the majority of the player population is going to continue to ignore it.
The truth is the truth though. Probably why like 50% of the people stopped playing PVP in the first place. Think what you want. Doing this would probably get pvp going alot more. Now can they handle it? I seriously doubt it.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
1. TR, HRs and GFs need to stop getting their weapon damage increased at this point. For at least the next set of weapons they are insane right now. 2. Probably should make healing insignias a bit weaker alot of people still don't even have lifesteal and heal as much as me with 31% lifesteal on my GWF and with 2 healing insignias. 3. Needs to be WAY LESS PIERCING DAMAGE whats the point of PVP armor when it just gets pierced and you die in one or two hits from rogues/hrs?
These are just the same masturbatory nerf requests that people make because they feel like their class is getting shafted. They've got nothing to do with actually fixing PvP because every time the devs make small changes like this PvP is still terrible and the majority of the player population is going to continue to ignore it.
The truth is the truth though. Probably why like 50% of the people stopped playing PVP in the first place. Think what you want. Doing this would probably get pvp going alot more. Now can they handle it? I seriously doubt it.
The changes you're proposing are something only matter to players already playing PvP.
It'll continue to be the same small circlejerk until they do something that actually appeals to the people that haven't been playing PvP since mod 6 or earlier or never played it at all.
The changes you're proposing are something only matter to players already playing PvP.
It'll continue to be the same small circlejerk until they do something that actually appeals to the people that haven't been playing PvP since mod 6 or earlier or never played it at all.
Oh I agree that this is only one facet of the fixes needed, but basically putting everyone of the same class the same exact stats and presets isn't that right thing to do. Who's to say they even know how to set up these preset stats and stuff. I just see it as a giant debacle trying to force things like down peoples throats. I seriously hope they don't consider going down that path.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
Solution? Make it easier to get maxed out and don't make me feel like I wasted all my money and time gearing my GWF out. If they did this I would QUIT as soon as it came out and just laugh while watching everyone else do the exact same thing.
They wont do this, and its not the solution. Why? Because this would make PVE even more trivial than it already is... The PROBLEM is the "power" inflation that keeps coming every module.
Since PVP is the only problem, even "The MMO GIANT" WOW has done this. Why do you think? because players would "QUIT" if they normalize pvp gear? Well... its been out for a while now and I think WOW has a stronger population base than it has in some time...
So clearly not "everyone else do the exact same thing". Its pretty obvious this is where many games are going - looking for a more normalized PVP setting. Since thats what makes it competitive.
Back in Mod 0 (pre-mod 1) days, the power gap wasnt that big. I dont know why they had to make a larger and larger and larger "power" inflation each module, but they did. They wanted to entice people into buying packs, for RP, or SHs, or whatever. So I get it... It had to be worth spending RL $ for... But... This had ruined PVP and with it - a good chunk of players who have paid for stuff have left.
The best thing they can do to PVP now is to "standardize" gear. 1 proposal has been to remove mounts/insignias/boons etc from PVP. a 2nd - to give everyone default stats like WOW and have Ilevel give a small adjuster (like WOW).
My ONLY issue with #2, is knowing Cryptic and PWE, they wont remove ALL the problems. They might strip out SOME things but leave some others and it wont fix the problem. thats why I am for the more "idiot" proof method - The WOW Method.
Give every class "default" PVP stats. Allow Itemlevel to give a small boost. So your "hard work" of getting PVE gear isnt wasted as it gives you a small advantage in PVP, but keeps everything "level" so everyone has a chance.
In a similar way, playing through brackets boosts your stats when leveling... Heck, you could even remove that system too and just (again) create default stats for those levels as well.
They haven't added a new PVP game mode in years (SH siege was never really a PVP mode with broken active bonuses on companions). Combine that with the ridiculous game glitches and numerous class imbalances (courage break rogues, AA spam clerics, perma cc wizards, one rotating GFs, piercing damage hrs etc. and there is your problem in a nutshell.
Also consider the trash rewards for repeated PVP players. Aside from AD and feeders what exactly does doing PVP offer that compares with doing dungeons? Glory is pretty much worthless once a player has all his artifacts maxxed out and there is no way to progress by doing PVP alone.
In short PVP is already dead, it has been for a long time. The complete disregard for putting new features in, bug fixing and class fixes killed it by neglect. I hate to say it but you guys are just wasting your time by making suggestions that will never be considered.
Solution? Make it easier to get maxed out and don't make me feel like I wasted all my money and time gearing my GWF out. If they did this I would QUIT as soon as it came out and just laugh while watching everyone else do the exact same thing.
I can live with the ten remaining PVPers leave the game and hundred others flooding the queues. Honestly, this "I invested so much" is a non-issue. PVP is dead. If you like to be the king of a wasteland, fine. But that solves nothing.
You probably know as good as I do that the devs can't just make everything easier because that works against their monetization. That's why PVP has to be leveled one way or another. Player need to be able to compete with PVE gear or have very easy, probably free, access to PVP gear and Enchantments. That's key.
In order to make Item Level the variable in matchmaking , first you have to fix item level. It would have to reflect mounts, boons , and to a certain extent, even build. Most of a players power these days does not come from the gear.
I would like item level to appropriately reflect the character stats and so I agree in part.
However, as it stands today, item level is still going to have the best matchmaking results in all its imperfections so your premise is incorrect.
I disagree. A few months ago someone posted a YouTube video of their guild's CN naked run. I looked for the post to link but couldn't find it, sorry. In the clip, the toons ran only with main & off-hands. The run took ten mins. I would say that Item level, when a toon isn't wearing any items, is broken into uselessness. It certainly should not be used as a metric to measure a toons' strength for matchmaking purposes. Not without an update, anyway. Having said that, a broken matchmaking metric would be better than what we have now. & it would probably make most peoples PvP experience better. 0,o
There already is access to PVP gear without setting foot in any PVP mode, the warborn set. It also happens to fit into their monetization model requiring either. Zen purchase or tradebars.
This thread basically amounts to complaining about the gap between the f2p and the p2w crowd. You can equate this to an argument about the "haves" vs "have nots".
Unfortunately making things easy access doesn't fit their business model. PW has to make money on this game, that's just the nature of f2p games in general. I don't see a problem with this. What is a problem is the fact that PVP in general for the most part has received little to no attention in over a year.
Sure there was token changes to ambush rings and whatnot, but on the whole little has been done to improve the overall appeal of PVP. The fact is the sheer neglect at this point in adding PVP game modes, class balance, adding interesting rewards, and bug fixing is what led to the non existent PVP community in general not "gear gap".
Take for example their last foray into new and exciting PVP, SH siege. This was supposed to be the "every man's" PVP. Instead it turned into an owlbear glitch fest filled with horrible lag and broken companion active bonuses. It got to the point where people stopped queuing for it because of this.
Another example is the matchmaking system which was "revised" in the mod 6 release to allow for "faster" queue times. So now instead of matching 5 man teams in domination against other 5 man teams, you get the dreaded "pug stomp" which usually involves a 5 man premade team with an average IL of 4k getting matched against a pug squad with an average IL of 1.6k.
These are just two examples of the broken stuff that players have to contend with. People want to complain about things like "fix this one thing and PVP will be good again", when the problems go deeper then that. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from voicing an opinion, but at the end of the day you have realize you are wasting your time for advocating for these sorts of changes. I don't know what's going on there at Cryptic in regards to what they are capable of or willing to do, but looking at their track record, I don't think any of the effort they are making for future mods will feature any heavy investment in PVP.
I want normalization without sacrificing build diversity. I get the impression GW2 does a decent job of pulling this off.
I used to be a bracket guy, but at this point, we just need to get more people involved.
FFS get tenacity off of gear. If people invested in crafted tenacity gear, let them trade it in to a vendor for comoensation. Tenacity gear kills diversity. NO MORE PVP SPECIFIC GEAR.
I must say - I am starting to agree with this also. The key thing in PVP should still be having interesting builds. Perhaps there is a way in which one could have a pool of available points, depending on your item level, which you can then mould into your build with boons being the other determining factor. Obviously feats would still remain keeping your playstyle, and you could then choose to e.g. focus on hit points, or recovery, or whatever you fancy, within the set parameters.
I would think thought that mount insignia would need to be awarded an item level (easily done I would assume), and there would need to be some recognition of guild level.
In addition: there is a question of how this would help Cryptic make sales. Well - for 1 - Item level would continue to matter so you would have to gear up items as always. 2. Mounts would proportionately become more important as they continue to offer options and special benefits. 3. Weapons would active bonuses rather than stats would be more diverse so there's an incentive to grind for and hold different kinds of weapons. 4. Glory could be made pointful again by giving people single use items (like stronghold foods, potions etc.) which can also be bought in zen market. 5. It would generate more enjoyment for players and help in player retention. 6. It would make special events like combat league viable helping make PVP more competitive. People want PVP - and if they aren't going to get a good experience here, they will go elsewhere.
And yes, this does go around the issues introducing brackets has, although I believe in the short term while a wider change is implemented brackets wouldn't necessarily hurt.
Or - here's an idea I'm not sure that has been discussed before - create a matching system where each team has to have the same item level in total. So if there's a 2k guy and a 4k guy, the 2k guy can bring another one. That would work quite well e.g. in gauntlgrym, which has felt a bit empty since they made 10 v 10.
I disagree. A few months ago someone posted a YouTube video of their guild's CN naked run. I looked for the post to link but couldn't find it, sorry. In the clip, the toons ran only with main & off-hands. The run took ten mins. I would say that Item level, when a toon isn't wearing any items, is broken into uselessness. It certainly should not be used as a metric to measure a toons' strength for matchmaking purposes. Not without an update, anyway. Having said that, a broken matchmaking metric would be better than what we have now. & it would probably make most peoples PvP experience better. 0,o
If you're just going to argue about semantics and details, then sure go fix itemlevel first before implementing it as the biggest factor in matchmaking algorithms.
I still stand with my statement that a broken itemlevel metric would produce more balanced PVP than the current one we have.
I really doubt they paid to have fair fights, that is not how life works. So, the solution is to keep stomping, make twinks to stomp new players. That will get them to pay.
They "paid" (to keep it simple, this is a complicated and sensitive topic) to have an advantage over other players. Steamrolling pugs and ending the game in 5 minutes isn't fun for anyone, at least after the first couple times you do it. I agree with you in part.
I agree that PVP is likely dead in NW, for those who do not want to pay for BIS. For BIS players, it seems fine.
PVP has not been competitive for years and years in Neverwinter. The fact that most BIS PVP people are familiar with one another is scary and sad. That just shows how small the community's gotten. Gone are the days when you queue up as a premade and get a guilds you didn't know existed and gave you a good fight. Do BIS PVP players enjoy that? I think the drama would say otherwise.
I did like the low level PVP <30 to some degree, as long as noone joins with rank 12's and BIS Weapon enchants. The fights last far longer and your Hp bar constanly went down over minutes, if no Lifesteal or insignia involved. I also would appreciate a PVP with easy access to every player. Imo PVP should have near no hurdles to join and should be based on skill exclusively. This would be fund for >90% player I guess. I would trade my gear, wich is useless if there is no playerbase and matchmaking, against no gear and a big playerbase frequently running PVP. I think premades will rule anyway , but if you seperate queues it would prevent the crying. A working leaderboard on top, a new NCL and the biggesrt problems are solved. I doubt cryptic is able and willing to get this going.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Start of mod 6 had perma bubble pallies and perma stealth trs that could hold points in siege map for the entire time, against entire teams.
this is when I quit.
Since then, dom has gone way down hill, you cant even enter and do anyhing unless you have all the pretty shinies.
I dont know if I will ever go back at this point.. up to mod 6, I spent majority of my days in dom matches.. but Iw ill agree early mods were so much better then later mods.. I could compete with sets of r8 and a perfect enchant back then.. without all the needless grind.
All they do is sell power now.. (they do the same in pve) but at least you can sorta overcome that..
I could of course cash all of my stuff in and go back to pvp.. but why would I do that..
I dont know if I will ever go back, company has turned me so off from it now.
Overall sounds like a better ideal then the junk they are doing now..
Well, the haves have it good. They get to stomp the have-nots, isn't that what they paid for? I really doubt they paid to have fair fights, that is not how life works. So, the solution is to keep stomping, make twinks to stomp new players. That will get them to pay. I agree that PVP is likely dead in NW, for those who do not want to pay for BIS. For BIS players, it seems fine.
You post this same theme repeatedly calling out BIS players as though they have intentionally ruined PVP and enjoy roflstomping pugs. Most interestingly it makes me wonder if you read the forums you post on as almost every BIS PVPer here asks repeatedly for balancing. For example: arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1227023/pvp-the-issues-all-of-them
I recognize your theme, and I do at least agree that PVP needs balancing and/or fixing but acting like it's the proletariat vs. the bourgeoisie is silly. Noone enjoys a 1 minute pug stomp. The only reason end game PVPers ever geared up to begin with was to fight other BIS PMs. Since the game became so difficult to keep up with in terms of gear and SH requirements, many players stopped playing, others went to PVE and PVP became the toxic mess of pugs vs BIS that it is.
What I think is that although I completely agree that PVP is broken and no new blood is coming in at the moment you are severely lacking on the history of PVP and how it got to this point. While I can understand bitterness from players who are lower geared getting rekt by BIS players it is the Devs/Management who created this mess by not watching trends in game.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Ill be honest, I have not played WOW since maybe 2010. That said, I know MANY brothers from Neverwinter who have since returned to the MMO Giant. Mainly because there is nothing else to play these days and NW PVP is just a you-know-what.
I was recently talking to a buddy over in WOW and asked about how the itemization and builds work. I was surprised at the answer and couldnt help thinking "this is what Neverwinter needs". Oh and before I go any further (in b4 "go back to WOW" comments), I have played Neverwinter since Open Beta. I have financially supported it and back in module 3 (maybe the last "great" era of PVP) I was even #1 on the leaderboards for a few weeks - when they actually worked. I am the leader of a MAX ranked SH as well as have been "BIS" since as long as I can remember. Any Old School NW player who is still around, knows that we've "been there" "done that" and this ISNT for my benefit. Well, scratch that, it is, because PVP is just boring as sin right now. Why? Mainly because the gear gap between players is too high for the population level in this game. TLDR: Gear gap. This is for the benefit of the PVP community.
So what does WOW do, that Cryptic/PWE should take note?(I copy/pasted a link below so you can read EXACTLY how they do this)
Well they created "generic" stats that ALL players get when they go into PVP. Completely normalize everything. Doesnt matter if you stack 20k ARP or 2k ARP, everyone enters with the SAME HP/Power/Crit/ETC - based on CLASS. (Meaning a DC will have different default stats than a GF).
Now, they DO make 1 adjustment. For every YYY points over YYY Itemlevel, it increases these stats by 1%. So how could Neverwinter use this?
Well, frankly, each class would be given a default of stats: HP/Power/ARP/Defense/Deflect etc. etc. Then(for example) Every 100 item level OVER 3,000 you get an extra 1% of those stats.
So (as an example - this is NOT a stat proposal). All GWFs might have: 120k HP 6k ARP 8k Power 3k recovery 3k Defense 2k Deflect Etc. etc.
Since I am Item Level 4,300. I would get 13% (1% per 100 over 3,000) more of these stats. Meaning 120k HP => 135k HP 6K ARP => 6780 ARP 8k Power => 9k Power etc etc.
So what this does is completely level the playing field HOWEVER still leaves some "wiggle room" to have a small gear advantage for being BIS gear. What determines this though is pure and simple "Item Level".
What this WOULD mean though, are all the stuff that currently contributes to a characters "Power"(not the stat), such as Boons, Mount bonuses, artifact equipment, etc. All that stuff wouldnt matter... It would be a SIMPLE function of:
Item Level - 3,000 * 1% = Bonus of the Vanilla stats you get for your class.
So what ITEMS you have matters less than what ITEMLEVEL you are in determining your "PVP stats". Some players MIGHT still want various loadouts - since what your PVE in might not be your highest ItemLevel... So there is still some value in that... This could even extend to tenacity as well - Give a base, then it would work with the bonus (or maybe HALF the bonus) So rather than 13% more tenacity, I would get 6.5%... Just some ideas...
I know this is controversial, but if "The MMO Giant" has done this, and with a MUCH larger population, there must be a good reason for it.... I cant help but think that this would get MANY more players doing PVP on a regular basis, if you were to remove all the gear gap and make this a more competitive environment.
"In Legion, as soon as you zone into a PvP instance, the stats on your gear will be nullified, and you'll be given a pre-determined set of stats that's uniquely configured for your specialization. Furthermore, any set bonuses, enchants, Legendary bonuses, or trinket effects will be deactivated"
"The only contribution your gear will make to your overall power is through a small modifier based on your average item level. For every point that your average item level increases, your pre-determined PvP stats will increase by 0.1%. That means a 25 item level difference between two players only results in a 2.5% difference in stats, compared to the 25% difference it makes today. There’s still a little incentive to improve your gear – a concept we think is important for World of Warcraft – but the benefits are much less pronounced.
These changes bring a couple of major advantages. First of all, it puts everyone participating in organized PvP on a much more even playing field. Obviously, you'll still want to unlock your Honor Talents to reach your full potential, but you'll be able to hold your own in battle in the meantime.
Second, it allows us infinitely more control to make PvP-specific balance tweaks. If one spec's Mastery is too strong in PvP, that's fine – we can just reduce the amount of Mastery they have. If a spec is too easy to kill, we can increase their Stamina. If a healer is having too much trouble keeping teammates alive, we can increase their Spellpower. In short, we can tune classes for PvP in a way that’s exclusively focused on PvP."
At this point bro, I'm willing to attempt anything that will mix up the state of PVP and allow new life blood to flow. +1 for trying to come up with creative solutions.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
You can easily take off some of your gear and artifacts when you are in a match against lowbies. That would make a more fair fight. Doubt anyone thought of that though.
I have seen people do it if they are extremely bored, they want to make a statement or they are recording a video
You can easily take off some of your gear and artifacts when you are in a match against lowbies. That would make a more fair fight. Doubt anyone thought of that though.
I do on a daily basis, I run my 2.6K il enchantless SW through Domination and my 3.1K IL GWF with no weapon enchants and like maybe 3 other enchants. So do many of our players.
I am sick of the dev bashing. There is a complete lack of personal responsibility going on here. The devs did not do this. They only gave you what you wanted, except drains. We all hate those. Overgearing to the point of insanity and racing to rank 20 SH were personal choices, as were running broken troll-mades and calling everybody nubs, scrubs and vulgar names. The devs did not do that.
You can be as sick as you want of "dev bashing", there is of course a lack of personal responsibility as we did not want SH, noone wanted SH. You are extraordinarily assumptive with these types of statements and 100% wrong. Who in their right mind loves running SH HEs over and over ad nauseum? These statements are literally laughable.
As far as calling everyone nubs, scrubs, and vlugar names you are again assuming that every BIS player does that to every lower IL player. This is also hugely wrong. There are some players who call everyone "vulgar" names in PVP as there are in PVE (and I've heard worse in PVE if you make mistakes in Demo or other end game Dungeons). It's also individual. If a person plays PVP and won't stand on a node to fight, they are indeed a "nub" and a "scrub" as they've just lost the match for you. However, they can improve by moving forward 5 feet and contesting in which case they've upgraded to team mate.
Now, let's see the Devs who, by the way do make decisions on how to change imbalances in the game (it's quite literally their job that they get paid to do), take some responsibility for continuously ignoring the PVP community when they ask for positive changes to PVP.
Lastly, your tendency to disdain end game PVP players and guilds has been ongoing for mods and mods. You probably missed the glory days of PVP and never saw the history of how it came to this abysmal state so I'll simply assume a fair amount of ignorance on your part. Seeing this from the outside rather than someone who watched it fall apart from the inside will give you a different, incorrect perspective. It's too bad but likely it's all you'll be able to see looking in from the outside at this point.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
You can easily take off some of your gear and artifacts when you are in a match against lowbies. That would make a more fair fight. Doubt anyone thought of that though.
I do on a daily basis, I run my 2.6K il enchantless SW through Domination and my 3.1K IL GWF with no weapon enchants and like maybe 3 other enchants. So do many of our players.
I am sick of the dev bashing. There is a complete lack of personal responsibility going on here. The devs did not do this. They only gave you what you wanted, except drains. We all hate those. Overgearing to the point of insanity and racing to rank 20 SH were personal choices, as were running broken troll-mades and calling everybody nubs, scrubs and vulgar names. The devs did not do that.
You can be as sick as you want of "dev bashing", there is of course a lack of personal responsibility as we did not want SH, noone wanted SH. You are extraordinarily assumptive with these types of statements and 100% wrong. Who in their right mind loves running SH HEs over and over ad nauseum? These statements are literally laughable.
As far as calling everyone nubs, scrubs, and vlugar names you are again assuming that every BIS player does that to every lower IL player. This is also hugely wrong. There are some players who call everyone "vulgar" names in PVP as there are in PVE (and I've heard worse in PVE if you make mistakes in Demo or other end game Dungeons). It's also individual. If a person plays PVP and won't stand on a node to fight, they are indeed a "nub" and a "scrub" as they've just lost the match for you. However, they can improve by moving forward 5 feet and contesting in which case they've upgraded to team mate.
Now, let's see the Devs who, by the way do make decisions on how to change imbalances in the game (it's quite literally their job that they get paid to do), take some responsibility for continuously ignoring the PVP community when they ask for positive changes to PVP.
Lastly, your tendency to disdain end game PVP players and guilds has been ongoing for mods and mods. You probably missed the glory days of PVP and never saw the history of how it came to this abysmal state so I'll simply assume a fair amount of ignorance on your part. Seeing this from the outside rather than someone who watched it fall apart from the inside will give you a different, incorrect perspective. It's too bad but likely it's all you'll be able to see looking in from the outside at this point.
Meh. Virtually every competitive game on the planet organizes and finds ways to work around dev inactivity. Games only get to the point that Neverwinter PvP is in when the players give up. NW PvP is so dead that it's just wallowing in its own toxic death spiral.
You can easily take off some of your gear and artifacts when you are in a match against lowbies. That would make a more fair fight. Doubt anyone thought of that though.
I do on a daily basis, I run my 2.6K il enchantless SW through Domination and my 3.1K IL GWF with no weapon enchants and like maybe 3 other enchants. So do many of our players.
I am sick of the dev bashing. There is a complete lack of personal responsibility going on here. The devs did not do this. They only gave you what you wanted, except drains. We all hate those. Overgearing to the point of insanity and racing to rank 20 SH were personal choices, as were running broken troll-mades and calling everybody nubs, scrubs and vulgar names. The devs did not do that.
You can be as sick as you want of "dev bashing", there is of course a lack of personal responsibility as we did not want SH, noone wanted SH. You are extraordinarily assumptive with these types of statements and 100% wrong. Who in their right mind loves running SH HEs over and over ad nauseum? These statements are literally laughable.
As far as calling everyone nubs, scrubs, and vlugar names you are again assuming that every BIS player does that to every lower IL player. This is also hugely wrong. There are some players who call everyone "vulgar" names in PVP as there are in PVE (and I've heard worse in PVE if you make mistakes in Demo or other end game Dungeons). It's also individual. If a person plays PVP and won't stand on a node to fight, they are indeed a "nub" and a "scrub" as they've just lost the match for you. However, they can improve by moving forward 5 feet and contesting in which case they've upgraded to team mate.
Now, let's see the Devs who, by the way do make decisions on how to change imbalances in the game (it's quite literally their job that they get paid to do), take some responsibility for continuously ignoring the PVP community when they ask for positive changes to PVP.
Lastly, your tendency to disdain end game PVP players and guilds has been ongoing for mods and mods. You probably missed the glory days of PVP and never saw the history of how it came to this abysmal state so I'll simply assume a fair amount of ignorance on your part. Seeing this from the outside rather than someone who watched it fall apart from the inside will give you a different, incorrect perspective. It's too bad but likely it's all you'll be able to see looking in from the outside at this point.
Meh. Virtually every competitive game on the planet organizes and finds ways to work around dev inactivity. Games only get to the point that Neverwinter PvP is in when the players give up. NW PvP is so dead that it's just wallowing in its own toxic death spiral.
I do find it comical that everyone seems to be leaning towards player responsibility for the state of the game. If I literally had the reigns, this would already be taken care of. PVP would be as balanced as possible. It would be an overhaul back to a more vanilla version of PVP as I've already asked for. This is not player responsibility. It's simply silly to say so.
That said, I'm glad Mjolnir and others are still trying to pique dev interest in changes that can breathe fresh air into PVP. I'm hoping at some point when the devs have time/resources they will look this way and make some real, tangible changes to PVP to make it viable again.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Comments
It'll continue to be the same small circlejerk until they do something that actually appeals to the people that haven't been playing PvP since mod 6 or earlier or never played it at all.
Since PVP is the only problem, even "The MMO GIANT" WOW has done this. Why do you think? because players would "QUIT" if they normalize pvp gear? Well... its been out for a while now and I think WOW has a stronger population base than it has in some time...
So clearly not "everyone else do the exact same thing". Its pretty obvious this is where many games are going - looking for a more normalized PVP setting. Since thats what makes it competitive.
Back in Mod 0 (pre-mod 1) days, the power gap wasnt that big. I dont know why they had to make a larger and larger and larger "power" inflation each module, but they did. They wanted to entice people into buying packs, for RP, or SHs, or whatever. So I get it... It had to be worth spending RL $ for... But... This had ruined PVP and with it - a good chunk of players who have paid for stuff have left.
The best thing they can do to PVP now is to "standardize" gear.
1 proposal has been to remove mounts/insignias/boons etc from PVP.
a 2nd - to give everyone default stats like WOW and have Ilevel give a small adjuster (like WOW).
My ONLY issue with #2, is knowing Cryptic and PWE, they wont remove ALL the problems. They might strip out SOME things but leave some others and it wont fix the problem. thats why I am for the more "idiot" proof method - The WOW Method.
Give every class "default" PVP stats. Allow Itemlevel to give a small boost. So your "hard work" of getting PVE gear isnt wasted as it gives you a small advantage in PVP, but keeps everything "level" so everyone has a chance.
In a similar way, playing through brackets boosts your stats when leveling... Heck, you could even remove that system too and just (again) create default stats for those levels as well.
Also consider the trash rewards for repeated PVP players. Aside from AD and feeders what exactly does doing PVP offer that compares with doing dungeons? Glory is pretty much worthless once a player has all his artifacts maxxed out and there is no way to progress by doing PVP alone.
In short PVP is already dead, it has been for a long time. The complete disregard for putting new features in, bug fixing and class fixes killed it by neglect. I hate to say it but you guys are just wasting your time by making suggestions that will never be considered.
I can live with the ten remaining PVPers leave the game and hundred others flooding the queues. Honestly, this "I invested so much" is a non-issue. PVP is dead. If you like to be the king of a wasteland, fine. But that solves nothing.
You probably know as good as I do that the devs can't just make everything easier because that works against their monetization. That's why PVP has to be leveled one way or another. Player need to be able to compete with PVE gear or have very easy, probably free, access to PVP gear and Enchantments. That's key.
There already is access to PVP gear without setting foot in any PVP mode, the warborn set. It also happens to fit into their monetization model requiring either. Zen purchase or tradebars.
This thread basically amounts to complaining about the gap between the f2p and the p2w crowd. You can equate this to an argument about the "haves" vs "have nots".
Unfortunately making things easy access doesn't fit their business model. PW has to make money on this game, that's just the nature of f2p games in general. I don't see a problem with this. What is a problem is the fact that PVP in general for the most part has received little to no attention in over a year.
Sure there was token changes to ambush rings and whatnot, but on the whole little has been done to improve the overall appeal of PVP. The fact is the sheer neglect at this point in adding PVP game modes, class balance, adding interesting rewards, and bug fixing is what led to the non existent PVP community in general not "gear gap".
Take for example their last foray into new and exciting PVP, SH siege. This was supposed to be the "every man's" PVP. Instead it turned into an owlbear glitch fest filled with horrible lag and broken companion active bonuses. It got to the point where people stopped queuing for it because of this.
Another example is the matchmaking system which was "revised" in the mod 6 release to allow for "faster" queue times. So now instead of matching 5 man teams in domination against other 5 man teams, you get the dreaded "pug stomp" which usually involves a 5 man premade team with an average IL of 4k getting matched against a pug squad with an average IL of 1.6k.
These are just two examples of the broken stuff that players have to contend with. People want to complain about things like "fix this one thing and PVP will be good again", when the problems go deeper then that. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from voicing an opinion, but at the end of the day you have realize you are wasting your time for advocating for these sorts of changes. I don't know what's going on there at Cryptic in regards to what they are capable of or willing to do, but looking at their track record, I don't think any of the effort they are making for future mods will feature any heavy investment in PVP.
I would think thought that mount insignia would need to be awarded an item level (easily done I would assume), and there would need to be some recognition of guild level.
In addition: there is a question of how this would help Cryptic make sales. Well - for 1 - Item level would continue to matter so you would have to gear up items as always. 2. Mounts would proportionately become more important as they continue to offer options and special benefits. 3. Weapons would active bonuses rather than stats would be more diverse so there's an incentive to grind for and hold different kinds of weapons. 4. Glory could be made pointful again by giving people single use items (like stronghold foods, potions etc.) which can also be bought in zen market. 5. It would generate more enjoyment for players and help in player retention. 6. It would make special events like combat league viable helping make PVP more competitive. People want PVP - and if they aren't going to get a good experience here, they will go elsewhere.
And yes, this does go around the issues introducing brackets has, although I believe in the short term while a wider change is implemented brackets wouldn't necessarily hurt.
Or - here's an idea I'm not sure that has been discussed before - create a matching system where each team has to have the same item level in total. So if there's a 2k guy and a 4k guy, the 2k guy can bring another one. That would work quite well e.g. in gauntlgrym, which has felt a bit empty since they made 10 v 10.
I still stand with my statement that a broken itemlevel metric would produce more balanced PVP than the current one we have.
The fights last far longer and your Hp bar constanly went down over minutes, if no Lifesteal or insignia involved.
I also would appreciate a PVP with easy access to every player. Imo PVP should have near no hurdles to join and should be based on skill exclusively. This would be fund for >90% player I guess.
I would trade my gear, wich is useless if there is no playerbase and matchmaking, against no gear and a big playerbase frequently running PVP.
I think premades will rule anyway , but if you seperate queues it would prevent the crying.
A working leaderboard on top, a new NCL and the biggesrt problems are solved.
I doubt cryptic is able and willing to get this going.
this is when I quit.
Since then, dom has gone way down hill, you cant even enter and do anyhing unless you have all the pretty shinies.
I dont know if I will ever go back at this point.. up to mod 6, I spent majority of my days in dom matches.. but Iw ill agree early mods were so much better then later mods.. I could compete with sets of r8 and a perfect enchant back then.. without all the needless grind.
All they do is sell power now.. (they do the same in pve) but at least you can sorta overcome that..
I could of course cash all of my stuff in and go back to pvp.. but why would I do that..
I dont know if I will ever go back, company has turned me so off from it now.
Overall sounds like a better ideal then the junk they are doing now..
I recognize your theme, and I do at least agree that PVP needs balancing and/or fixing but acting like it's the proletariat vs. the bourgeoisie is silly. Noone enjoys a 1 minute pug stomp. The only reason end game PVPers ever geared up to begin with was to fight other BIS PMs. Since the game became so difficult to keep up with in terms of gear and SH requirements, many players stopped playing, others went to PVE and PVP became the toxic mess of pugs vs BIS that it is.
What I think is that although I completely agree that PVP is broken and no new blood is coming in at the moment you are severely lacking on the history of PVP and how it got to this point. While I can understand bitterness from players who are lower geared getting rekt by BIS players it is the Devs/Management who created this mess by not watching trends in game.
As far as calling everyone nubs, scrubs, and vlugar names you are again assuming that every BIS player does that to every lower IL player. This is also hugely wrong. There are some players who call everyone "vulgar" names in PVP as there are in PVE (and I've heard worse in PVE if you make mistakes in Demo or other end game Dungeons). It's also individual. If a person plays PVP and won't stand on a node to fight, they are indeed a "nub" and a "scrub" as they've just lost the match for you. However, they can improve by moving forward 5 feet and contesting in which case they've upgraded to team mate.
Running "broken troll mades" I would reference this link: arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1226823/please-force-rainbows-in-pvp/p1 and others like it by other players.
Now, let's see the Devs who, by the way do make decisions on how to change imbalances in the game (it's quite literally their job that they get paid to do), take some responsibility for continuously ignoring the PVP community when they ask for positive changes to PVP.
Lastly, your tendency to disdain end game PVP players and guilds has been ongoing for mods and mods. You probably missed the glory days of PVP and never saw the history of how it came to this abysmal state so I'll simply assume a fair amount of ignorance on your part. Seeing this from the outside rather than someone who watched it fall apart from the inside will give you a different, incorrect perspective. It's too bad but likely it's all you'll be able to see looking in from the outside at this point.
That said, I'm glad Mjolnir and others are still trying to pique dev interest in changes that can breathe fresh air into PVP. I'm hoping at some point when the devs have time/resources they will look this way and make some real, tangible changes to PVP to make it viable again.