@rjc9000@jaime4312 The 10% debuff of Pillar of Power decreases your damage, but only for a fraction of second. Actually, PoP has also a buff that increases your damage, so you should step inside it anyway. In this ACT log for example the debuff increases my damage by 10% for a couple of hits, then nothing, then -10% with the last hit:
Thanks for your answer, Michela, wow, Pillar of power sounds quite buggy and as such I'd like to ask you:
1. How much does it increase damage for the caster? is it 20% average or less than that? 2. Given answer #1, do you think it is worth using it still or is it better to replace it with a hard hitting encounter such as killing flames? 3. Considering what you know about pillar of power, do you think vorpal is a good alternative to dread, especially in boss fights? I really like at-wills and daylies (especially Hellish Rebuke and I love, TC, BoH and GoH) being more powerful, I really love Hellish Rebuke and it's what stops me from getting a dread enchantment. I'm currently on mod 10 (xbox 1) so that's pre-TC fix and I think once we get mod 10.5 I really want to stay HB SW, played SB for quite some time originally and always felt like I'd like Hellbringer more which is what happened. We have no ACT available on xb1/ps4 so testing is kind of limited, that and that you pc guys understand the game much better.
@jaime4312#3760 the buff on pillar of power (which does not register in effectiveness) is 24% the last time I checked.
@fogcrow I wanted to add that info too, but I gave up when I realized that a lot of debuffs stack due to bugs. Dread debuff stacks only if the enchantments have different ranks. The debuff on critical hits stacks instead, so if two players use Transcendent Dread (and they both crit together) the debuff is 12%. @jaime4312 Yes, Pillar is still 24% and the buff works for all the party even if it is not feated (but not outside the party). I can’t answer the other questions because I only play DC; my SW has no equip and she has never done any dungeon. I think that Pillar would never leave my bar and I'd probably use Vorpal, but I can’t give a real answer without playing the class. Anyway I know some of the people in the SW section. They are great players and they often test stuff, so I trust their opinions.
Thank you so much for this work! Has anyone tested the armored griffon's combat power? I regret that I completely forgot to transfer a copy to preview before I bound it to my stable, but I am happy to run tests if needed. I have ACT and have used it before, but have difficulty interpreting the data. (I play a DC btw)
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@fogcrow I wanted to add that info too, but I gave up when I realized that a lot of debuffs stack due to bugs. Dread debuff stacks only if the enchantments have different ranks. The debuff on critical hits stacks instead, so if two players use Transcendent Dread (and they both crit together) the debuff is 12%. @jaime4312 Yes, Pillar is still 24% and the buff works for all the party even if it is not feated (but not outside the party). I can’t answer the other questions because I only play DC; my SW has no equip and she has never done any dungeon. I think that Pillar would never leave my bar and I'd probably use Vorpal, but I can’t give a real answer without playing the class. Anyway I know some of the people in the SW section. They are great players and they often test stuff, so I trust their opinions.
It is also worth mentioning that it is 100% effective on both allies (not 50% as effective on allies) as well as yourself without the feat, the only thing the feat changes is that with the feat if you step outside the pillar you keep the buff but without the feat you must remain inside of it. Also the buff doesn't stack.
Thank you so much for this work! Has anyone tested the armored griffon's combat power? I regret that I completely forgot to transfer a copy to preview before I bound it to my stable, but I am happy to run tests if needed. I have ACT and have used it before, but have difficulty interpreting the data. (I play a DC btw)
I have the griffon as my active, although I have been tempted to switch to the lion since imo the lion is the best (but a big expense <.<). What it did when I tested it is it divides your opponents outgoing damage by 1.3 (or multiplies by 0.76923076923, whichever you prefer.) The duration is 6 seconds. I haven't tested if it stacks the debuff with other griffons.
I have the griffon as my active, although I have been tempted to switch to the lion since imo the lion is the best (but a big expense <.<). What it did when I tested it is it divides your opponents outgoing damage by 1.3 (or multiplies by 0.76923076923, whichever you prefer.) The duration is 6 seconds. I haven't tested if it stacks the debuff with other griffons.</p>
Thank you for that info. If you don't mind a couple more questions - does it debuff only the opponent who was targeted, or all opponents in a range (like the con artist); and, why is the lion best? (I won't be in a position to purchase one for - well, probably ever - but interested in the facts)
I have the griffon as my active, although I have been tempted to switch to the lion since imo the lion is the best (but a big expense <.<). What it did when I tested it is it <b class="Bold">divides your opponents outgoing damage by 1.3 (or multiplies by 0.76923076923, whichever you prefer.) The duration is 6 seconds. I haven't tested if it stacks the debuff with other griffons.
Formula for this: DamageAfter = DamageBefore/(1+SumDebuffs) ? When I test (Courage Breaker), I came to this formula.
And to the other formula DamageAfter = DamageBefore*(1-Debuff1)*(1-Debuff2)*(1-Debuff3)*... In this category - Bane, Hunters Teamwork, Commanding Shot.
There are other types of debuffs?
Drider
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I have the griffon as my active, although I have been tempted to switch to the lion since imo the lion is the best (but a big expense <.<). What it did when I tested it is it <b class="Bold">divides your opponents outgoing damage by 1.3 (or multiplies by 0.76923076923, whichever you prefer.) The duration is 6 seconds. I haven't tested if it stacks the debuff with other griffons.
Formula for this: DamageAfter = DamageBefore/(1+SumDebuffs) ? When I test (Courage Breaker), I came to this formula.
And to the other formula DamageAfter = DamageBefore*(1-Debuff1)*(1-Debuff2)*(1-Debuff3)*... In this category - Bane, Hunters Teamwork, Commanding Shot.
There are other types of debuffs?
@chemodan007 I am actually not sure, I have not extensively tested damage debuffs (Rather I have only tested a select few), so any info on them is knew to me. That being said, I appreciate any input you have and I am sure other people are as well.
I have the griffon as my active, although I have been tempted to switch to the lion since imo the lion is the best (but a big expense <.<). What it did when I tested it is it divides your opponents outgoing damage by 1.3 (or multiplies by 0.76923076923, whichever you prefer.) The duration is 6 seconds. I haven't tested if it stacks the debuff with other griffons.</p>
Thank you for that info. If you don't mind a couple more questions - does it debuff only the opponent who was targeted, or all opponents in a range (like the con artist); and, why is the lion best? (I won't be in a position to purchase one for - well, probably ever - but interested in the facts)
The reason I think the lion is BiS is because the shield it grants gives a large amount of temp hp which can be a life saver in this, "oh hamster" moments. The debuff from the griffon on the other hand, is finicky and is less likely to save you in those situations. The griffon debuffs all in range, not just who you target.
@rjc9000@jaime4312 The 10% debuff of Pillar of Power decreases your damage, but only for a fraction of second. Actually, PoP has also a buff that increases your damage, so you should step inside it anyway. In this ACT log for example the debuff increases my damage by 10% for a couple of hits, then nothing, then -10% with the last hit:
Thanks for your answer, Michela, wow, Pillar of power sounds quite buggy and as such I'd like to ask you:
1. How much does it increase damage for the caster? is it 20% average or less than that? 2. Given answer #1, do you think it is worth using it still or is it better to replace it with a hard hitting encounter such as killing flames? 3. Considering what you know about pillar of power, do you think vorpal is a good alternative to dread, especially in boss fights? I really like at-wills and daylies (especially Hellish Rebuke and I love, TC, BoH and GoH) being more powerful, I really love Hellish Rebuke and it's what stops me from getting a dread enchantment. I'm currently on mod 10 (xbox 1) so that's pre-TC fix and I think once we get mod 10.5 I really want to stay HB SW, played SB for quite some time originally and always felt like I'd like Hellbringer more which is what happened. We have no ACT available on xb1/ps4 so testing is kind of limited, that and that you pc guys understand the game much better.
@jaime4312#3760 the buff on pillar of power (which does not register in effectiveness) is 24% the last time I checked.
Thanks for the info, knowing that's kind of bugged made me wonder if it was even worth it using and thanks to you and Michela I see it is, you guys are beasts and geniuses at this game lol.
By the way, as I want to stay HB SW once mod 10.5 get released on xbox1 and considering that a large amount of my dps comes from at-wills and daylies (hellish rebuke, TC, brood of hadar and gates of hell sometimes), do you think I should keep my vorpal or is dread still better overall? I use all consuming curse and flames of empowerment for passive powers, I like HR having its dot.
As TC's fix gave soulbinder a significant dps advantage over non owlbear Hellbringer, would'nt it be reasonable to tweak PoP's personal buff, Gates of hell and Hellish Rebuke's damage substantially so the difference isn't as much as it is now? I know a good owlbear-user hellbringer does slightly less dps than a good sb but if the former doesn't have that bugged companion (which will most likely be nerfed to uselessness) the latter will have a significant advantage on damage. Maybe flames of empowerment could provide a much greater dps boost as well?
I also saw someone in The Nine Hells section stating that FoE off hand bonus isn't even working, I wonder if that's true or not.
@fogcrow I wanted to add that info too, but I gave up when I realized that a lot of debuffs stack due to bugs. Dread debuff stacks only if the enchantments have different ranks. The debuff on critical hits stacks instead, so if two players use Transcendent Dread (and they both crit together) the debuff is 12%. @jaime4312 Yes, Pillar is still 24% and the buff works for all the party even if it is not feated (but not outside the party). I can’t answer the other questions because I only play DC; my SW has no equip and she has never done any dungeon. I think that Pillar would never leave my bar and I'd probably use Vorpal, but I can’t give a real answer without playing the class. Anyway I know some of the people in the SW section. They are great players and they often test stuff, so I trust their opinions.
Woah 24% buff for everyone and not just the caster? I love how bad the tooltips are! I still wonder about vorpal vs dread, I saw a good hb sw recommending vorpal but not sure if it's the way to go, if he compared those enchantments it would be easier to know what's the best option.
So basically the only point of feating PoP is for mobility purposes while retaining the buff for 5 secs? I wonder if speccing full fury would give an overall higher dps, I'm very interested in Gatekeeper's empowerment as it increases the dot component of Hellish Rebuke by 25%, that sounds very good! Dear sweet Hellish Rebuke lol.
I have a question. I dont know which primary artifact I should choose for my MoF build. I am thinking either about Heart of the Black Dragon or the Token. I also have already a mythic lantern in storage. I did some testing with the token on puppets but the puppet barely is hit by the debuff meteor so I guess the debuff will fail sometimes in bossfights. The Heart has a smaller debuff with a shorter duration but isnt capped at 200% because of base dmg buff so it is an advantage in my opinion. I have enough AP gain so cleri artifact isnt a choice for me.
Does someone have an opinion about it and can help me?
This is incredible. Thanks very much for all the work you guys have done!
As a DC, and knowing my "main" group, it does have me questioning whether it's worth sticking with righteous since it kinda looks like we would surpass the 100% cap even without condemning gaze. Hmmm...things to ponder!
@hastati96 With MoF + DC + GF in party you easily reach 200% effectiveness. The Heart of the Black Dragon is probably better in many occasions, but I’m pretty sure that its debuff is a bug and will be fixed sooner or later. Token, as you said, can easily miss the target (try to use it at Drufi, it’s funny). Furthermore now it is capped and mitigated, so it’s better than Lantern in low tier dungeons, but vs FBI bosses its debuff is only 20*(1-0,6)*0,75 = 6%. So I’d say keep your Lantern, unless you want to invest in a Heart of the Black Dragon and use it until it lasts.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
It's very unlikelly to happen in a dungeon but can Ambush drake debuff stack with dancing shield one?
This is amazing work folks, thank you all for the effort here.
I wanted to ask about Frost vs. PF on a MoF CW. It's silly, but I prefer PF for flavor (pretty weird to have a frost enchanted wep if you are a Master of Flame). However, I was running frost because it was overperforming and I didn't want to gimp myself for flavor. However, now it looks like from your awesome spreadsheet that PF can be slightly better than frost (or at least not worse).
Plague Fire: 9%, not capped, yes mitigated by DR, yes less effective vs lvl73 Plague Fire Trans: 2%, yes capped, not mitigated, not less effective vs lvl73
Frost : 7%, not capped, not mitigated, yes less effective vs lvl73
So if you have full RI and can effectively keep up all the PF stacks, it looks as if PF "base effect" is better on paper than Frost. It also has the 2% capped additional @ Trans to help with reaching 200% cap in a 5man party.
I understand that PF effect is more consistent and Frost more spiky. It also matters whether there are others running the enchant as well, etc. But is it viable for a MoF to switch to PF now? Or stick with Frost?
This is amazing work folks, thank you all for the effort here.
I wanted to ask about Frost vs. PF on a MoF CW. It's silly, but I prefer PF for flavor (pretty weird to have a frost enchanted wep if you are a Master of Flame). However, I was running frost because it was overperforming and I didn't want to gimp myself for flavor. However, now it looks like from your awesome spreadsheet that PF can be slightly better than frost (or at least not worse).
Plague Fire: 9%, not capped, yes mitigated by DR, yes less effective vs lvl73 Plague Fire Trans: 2%, yes capped, not mitigated, not less effective vs lvl73
Frost : 7%, not capped, not mitigated, yes less effective vs lvl73
So if you have full RI and can effectively keep up all the PF stacks, it looks as if PF "base effect" is better on paper than Frost. It also has the 2% capped additional @ Trans to help with reaching 200% cap in a 5man party.
I understand that PF effect is more consistent and Frost more spiky. It also matters whether there are others running the enchant as well, etc. But is it viable for a MoF to switch to PF now? Or stick with Frost?
ty again folks</p>
Hmm... I personally would let the GFs/DCs take the Frost and the MoF the Plague due to the MoF being able to attack rapidly and the other support classes not so much.
Overall, I would say that the decision is based off of what your team currently has.
For both questions, you'll probably want a confirmation from @michela123.
I'm gonna have to test the mark stacking myself as well, I wasn't aware there's been a change and GF/GWF marks won't stack. If you have any logs that'd be appreciated, will definitely change my playstyle if it indeed no longer stacks.
@dupeks As Anri said. The two debuffs are very similar and MoF is very good for keeping PF stacks. Two PF of the same rank don't stack, but from my personal experience you have very little chance to find someone that uses the Trans version.
@rinat114 ACT logs are not very clear because Daring Shout and Enforced Threat are not registered, but... whatever! Here the GWF casts Daring Shout and after some seconds the GF uses Enforced Threat. The 20% mark from Daring Shout is active for 20 seconds, then the GWF receives the last seconds of Enforced Threat debuff. This means that if the GF is marking the mobs you gain only 12% from Daring Shout. Note that they don't cancel each other: the highest one is applied until it expires.
Threatening Rush is probably bugged and it adds 12% to other marks. This is the result if you use Daring Shout and Threatening Rush:
@fogcrow I wanted to add that info too, but I gave up when I realized that a lot of debuffs stack due to bugs. Dread debuff stacks only if the enchantments have different ranks. The debuff on critical hits stacks instead, so if two players use Transcendent Dread (and they both crit together) the debuff is 12%. @jaime4312 Yes, Pillar is still 24% and the buff works for all the party even if it is not feated (but not outside the party). I can’t answer the other questions because I only play DC; my SW has no equip and she has never done any dungeon. I think that Pillar would never leave my bar and I'd probably use Vorpal, but I can’t give a real answer without playing the class. Anyway I know some of the people in the SW section. They are great players and they often test stuff, so I trust their opinions.
Thank you ^^. I would´ve liked to know anyway, but if you decide that some are better kept secret, I respect that. Another possible, and most welcome addition to the list would be durations(the tooltips don´t always list them iirc, and even if they do, we all know by now that NW tooltips aren´t trustworthy xD) and cooldowns (internal or other), the latter especially if they prevent the debuff from being possible to be kept up by a single user.
Also I´m thinking about changing my weapon enchantment, running pure Terror in PvE atm, bought it before they updated the tooltip to reveal it debuffs mobs for 4 instead of 40, and know I see its not even 4 where it matters most T_T. Still: Do terror enchantment debuffs stack(yes/different ranks/no)? Do Plague Fire enchantment debuffs stack(yes/different ranks/no)?
About the debuffs stacking, nothing useful actually and I just checked DC and a bit of CW. For example I was able to stack Bronzewood with CW up to 3-4 times with Conduct of Ice, Icy Terrain and Chill Strike, but since MoF are often in parties with 200% effectiveness cap, I think other enchantments are better. Also Frigid Winds occasionally stacks if, for example, you cast Icy Terrain when mobs have 5 chill stacks, since they get double frozen. This requires a perfect timing thought and it is impossible to reproduce in dungeon consciously. DC stacks Condemning Gaze too, but I already mentioned it many times. Other debuffs stacking are already known, like Swath and Dark Fire. Terror doesn’t stack at any rank, probably because it can’t be reapplied on the same mob before it expires. PF stacks at different ranks. The 2% extra debuff of Trans PF stacks too.
Just to make sure, the parenthesis are correct? Especially the ArP part just added to the capped debufs? So at the end it will be:
Where I[something] is an Indicator of something and equal 1 when something = true, and equal 0 when something = false. Skillmodifier is the at-will / encounter / dailiy modifier and it's rank
(I don't remember the main Ability for all classes, so STR is for example)
Im not sure if i follow C.A. is that equal to: (Previous multipliers result) *{ (1+critseverity) +[ (15 + comp + stat + atribute)/100 + 0.1(15 +comp+stat+atribute)/100]}
And if so doesn't this make C.A. companions slightly better than Dancing blade?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Just to make sure, the parenthesis are correct? Especially the ArP part just added to the capped debufs? So at the end it will be:
Where I[something] is an Indicator of something and equal 1 when something = true, and equal 0 when something = false. Skillmodifier is the at-will / encounter / dailiy modifier and it's rank
(I don't remember the main Ability for all classes, so STR is for example)
Im not sure if i follow C.A. is that equal to: (Previous multipliers result) *{ (1+critseverity) +[ (15 + comp + stat + atribute)/100 + 0.1(15 +comp+stat+atribute)/100]}
And if so doesn't this make C.A. companions slightly better than Dancing blade?
If you have constant CA (and should have) CA companion will always be better than the blade. On CA and non crit it will add CA, and on CA and Crit It will add exactly the same as the blade (5% both). But in any case, I wouldn't recommend the blade, there are other better options there even without CA companions.
It's equal in spirit. But the above is a bit misleading:
You don't always have the boon, so can't just add 0.1(....)
It irked me that you have twice (..) so just combined those parts.
And the (1+critseverity) is somewhat misleading, shouldn't be parenthesis there. Because on CA and non crit you get 1 + CAstuff. On crit without CA you get 1 + SeverityStuff and on both you get 1+ CAstuff + SeverityStuff The 1 comes from the "increase" we have the 100% and add to it. It's not attached to either CA or Severity.
Also it is correct for crit, ca, both crit and ca, and none. But all of it is nitpicking, and it's just a more smart-HAMSTER to write it.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@micky1p00 ah ok, i was missing the point of that I[CA] because the result of the multiplication i was getting was below 1, but that result is not suposed to be above 1 because there is already the +1 in the above line ^^, thx.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Thanks for the work guys... Have some questions...
What about Jagged Dancing Blade's active?
Will switching to PF from Dread severely affect my solo performance? Is the debuff gain worth it?
Does Entangling Force have any debuff? The rank up states +10% Debuff for each point.
And, only Rust Monster and Jagged Dancing Blade give debuffs through active, right? Planning to use Rebel Mercenary as summoned, and Eyrinyes, Air Archon, Rust Monster, and Jagged Dancing Blade as actives. Will be replacing Fire Archon, Earth Archon, and Wild Hunt Rider. Would any other combination be better?
Thanks for the work guys... Have some questions...
What about Jagged Dancing Blade's active?
Will switching to PF from Dread severely affect my solo performance? Is the debuff gain worth it?
Does Entangling Force have any debuff? The rank up states +10% Debuff for each point.
And, only Rust Monster and Jagged Dancing Blade give debuffs through active, right? Planning to use Rebel Mercenary as summoned, and Eyrinyes, Air Archon, Rust Monster, and Jagged Dancing Blade as actives. Will be replacing Fire Archon, Earth Archon, and Wild Hunt Rider. Would any other combination be better?
PF defense debuff is nice, but imo just use Dread for soloing. Stacking defense debuffs only matters in high-end group content ala FBI or ESvard.
Rust Monster has a damage debuff for its active which requires you to get hit. For a CW like yourself, Rust would be a bad idea, since you're a , well, squishy wizard.
Not sure about Entangling.
Since Jagged Dancing Blade is junk and Rust Monster is negligible on a CW, I'd reccomend Rebel/Air/Erinyes/Fire/Wild Hunt.
Does Entangling Force have any debuff? The rank up states +10% Debuff for each point.
I did some testing on the preview. You are right, the tooltip really says a +10% debuff for each point. I couldnt see any debuff on puppets, no effectiveness increase seems like it is just a wrong tooltip
Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Does Entangling Force have any debuff? The rank up states +10% Debuff for each point.
I did some testing on the preview. You are right, the tooltip really says a +10% debuff for each point. I couldnt see any debuff on puppets, no effectiveness increase seems like it is just a wrong tooltip
I didn't check if it debuffed a monsters damage instead of their damage reduction, but it definitely is not a DR debuff.
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Ah... Okay, thanks... Guess not much to change... Will give PF a try and be done with it
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Hey... Back again :P Would Vanguard's Banner be the best debuff artifact if all of them work correctly? I'm holding on to mine in those hopes and not getting anything else.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
But the jaged dancing blade debuff is relative to the active companion or just jaged dancing blade?
I have a question. If you have reached the 200% cap for DR Debuffs (not adding in debuffs that ignore the cap) wouldn't Damage buffs be more effective in group play? For example:
Party: DC, CW, SW, GF, GWF
DC + CW apply debuffs reaching the 200% cap. At this point everyone else should just run Vorpals and stack Damage buffs?
I understand this thread is about what works, what exceeds caps, and what gets mitigated, but now that we have that information we can begin to filter out excess debuffs from the party and focus on buffs right? I ask this because as a GWF, it would be completely unnecessary to run any debuffs if my party has already reached the debuff cap. (If marks don't stack, running Battle Fury would be more effective) This is just an example for my class. This was also discussed in the DC forum in regards to stacking debuffs between two DCs. I might be missing something but it would appear that in most parties when running 2xDC you can reach the debuff cap with just 1 DC plus a few debuffs from another class, meaning the other DC might as well be a power sharing Haste Cleric or anything outside of being a debuff cleric. When you understand what stacks and what doesn't you can really change the diversity of the party. Buffs become > Debuffs past 200%? (Any buffs, not exclusively Damage buffs)
Comments
@jaime4312 Yes, Pillar is still 24% and the buff works for all the party even if it is not feated (but not outside the party). I can’t answer the other questions because I only play DC; my SW has no equip and she has never done any dungeon. I think that Pillar would never leave my bar and I'd probably use Vorpal, but I can’t give a real answer without playing the class. Anyway I know some of the people in the SW section. They are great players and they often test stuff, so I trust their opinions.
DamageAfter = DamageBefore/(1+SumDebuffs) ?
When I test (Courage Breaker), I came to this formula.
And to the other formula
DamageAfter = DamageBefore*(1-Debuff1)*(1-Debuff2)*(1-Debuff3)*...
In this category - Bane, Hunters Teamwork, Commanding Shot.
There are other types of debuffs?
By the way, as I want to stay HB SW once mod 10.5 get released on xbox1 and considering that a large amount of my dps comes from at-wills and daylies (hellish rebuke, TC, brood of hadar and gates of hell sometimes), do you think I should keep my vorpal or is dread still better overall? I use all consuming curse and flames of empowerment for passive powers, I like HR having its dot.
As TC's fix gave soulbinder a significant dps advantage over non owlbear Hellbringer, would'nt it be reasonable to tweak PoP's personal buff, Gates of hell and Hellish Rebuke's damage substantially so the difference isn't as much as it is now? I know a good owlbear-user hellbringer does slightly less dps than a good sb but if the former doesn't have that bugged companion (which will most likely be nerfed to uselessness) the latter will have a significant advantage on damage. Maybe flames of empowerment could provide a much greater dps boost as well?
I also saw someone in The Nine Hells section stating that FoE off hand bonus isn't even working, I wonder if that's true or not. Woah 24% buff for everyone and not just the caster? I love how bad the tooltips are! I still wonder about vorpal vs dread, I saw a good hb sw recommending vorpal but not sure if it's the way to go, if he compared those enchantments it would be easier to know what's the best option.
So basically the only point of feating PoP is for mobility purposes while retaining the buff for 5 secs? I wonder if speccing full fury would give an overall higher dps, I'm very interested in Gatekeeper's empowerment as it increases the dot component of Hellish Rebuke by 25%, that sounds very good! Dear sweet Hellish Rebuke
I have a question. I dont know which primary artifact I should choose for my MoF build. I am thinking either about Heart of the Black Dragon or the Token. I also have already a mythic lantern in storage. I did some testing with the token on puppets but the puppet barely is hit by the debuff meteor so I guess the debuff will fail sometimes in bossfights. The Heart has a smaller debuff with a shorter duration but isnt capped at 200% because of base dmg buff so it is an advantage in my opinion. I have enough AP gain so cleri artifact isnt a choice for me.
Does someone have an opinion about it and can help me?
As a DC, and knowing my "main" group, it does have me questioning whether it's worth sticking with righteous since it kinda looks like we would surpass the 100% cap even without condemning gaze. Hmmm...things to ponder!
I wanted to ask about Frost vs. PF on a MoF CW. It's silly, but I prefer PF for flavor (pretty weird to have a frost enchanted wep if you are a Master of Flame). However, I was running frost because it was overperforming and I didn't want to gimp myself for flavor. However, now it looks like from your awesome spreadsheet that PF can be slightly better than frost (or at least not worse).
Plague Fire: 9%, not capped, yes mitigated by DR, yes less effective vs lvl73
Plague Fire Trans: 2%, yes capped, not mitigated, not less effective vs lvl73
Frost : 7%, not capped, not mitigated, yes less effective vs lvl73
So if you have full RI and can effectively keep up all the PF stacks, it looks as if PF "base effect" is better on paper than Frost. It also has the 2% capped additional @ Trans to help with reaching 200% cap in a 5man party.
I understand that PF effect is more consistent and Frost more spiky. It also matters whether there are others running the enchant as well, etc. But is it viable for a MoF to switch to PF now? Or stick with Frost?
Overall, I would say that the decision is based off of what your team currently has.
For both questions, you'll probably want a confirmation from @michela123.
I'm gonna have to test the mark stacking myself as well, I wasn't aware there's been a change and GF/GWF marks won't stack. If you have any logs that'd be appreciated, will definitely change my playstyle if it indeed no longer stacks.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
@dupeks As Anri said. The two debuffs are very similar and MoF is very good for keeping PF stacks. Two PF of the same rank don't stack, but from my personal experience you have very little chance to find someone that uses the Trans version.
@rinat114 ACT logs are not very clear because Daring Shout and Enforced Threat are not registered, but... whatever! Here the GWF casts Daring Shout and after some seconds the GF uses Enforced Threat. The 20% mark from Daring Shout is active for 20 seconds, then the GWF receives the last seconds of Enforced Threat debuff. This means that if the GF is marking the mobs you gain only 12% from Daring Shout. Note that they don't cancel each other: the highest one is applied until it expires.
Threatening Rush is probably bugged and it adds 12% to other marks. This is the result if you use Daring Shout and Threatening Rush:
I would´ve liked to know anyway, but if you decide that some are better kept secret, I respect that.
Another possible, and most welcome addition to the list would be durations(the tooltips don´t always list them iirc, and even if they do, we all know by now that NW tooltips aren´t trustworthy xD) and cooldowns (internal or other), the latter especially if they prevent the debuff from being possible to be kept up by a single user.
Also I´m thinking about changing my weapon enchantment, running pure Terror in PvE atm, bought it before they updated the tooltip to reveal it debuffs mobs for 4 instead of 40, and know I see its not even 4 where it matters most T_T. Still:
Do terror enchantment debuffs stack(yes/different ranks/no)?
Do Plague Fire enchantment debuffs stack(yes/different ranks/no)?
Terror doesn’t stack at any rank, probably because it can’t be reapplied on the same mob before it expires. PF stacks at different ranks. The 2% extra debuff of Trans PF stacks too.
(Previous multipliers result) *{ (1+critseverity) +[ (15 + comp + stat + atribute)/100 + 0.1(15 +comp+stat+atribute)/100]}
And if so doesn't this make C.A. companions slightly better than Dancing blade?
(Previous multipliers result) *{ (1+critseverity) +[ (15 + comp + stat + atribute)/100 + 0.1(15 +comp+stat+atribute)/100]}It's equal in spirit. But the above is a bit misleading:
You don't always have the boon, so can't just add 0.1(....)
It irked me that you have twice (..) so just combined those parts.
And the
(1+critseverity)is somewhat misleading, shouldn't be parenthesis there. Because on CA and non crit you get1 + CAstuff. On crit without CA you get1 + SeverityStuffand on both you get1+ CAstuff + SeverityStuffThe 1 comes from the "increase" we have the 100% and add to it. It's not attached to either CA or Severity.
Also it is correct for crit, ca, both crit and ca, and none.
But all of it is nitpicking, and it's just a more smart-HAMSTER to write it.
What about Jagged Dancing Blade's active?
Will switching to PF from Dread severely affect my solo performance? Is the debuff gain worth it?
Does Entangling Force have any debuff? The rank up states +10% Debuff for each point.
And, only Rust Monster and Jagged Dancing Blade give debuffs through active, right? Planning to use Rebel Mercenary as summoned, and Eyrinyes, Air Archon, Rust Monster, and Jagged Dancing Blade as actives. Will be replacing Fire Archon, Earth Archon, and Wild Hunt Rider. Would any other combination be better?
The debuff queen talked about it here.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1226061/jagged-dancing-blade
PF defense debuff is nice, but imo just use Dread for soloing. Stacking defense debuffs only matters in high-end group content ala FBI or ESvard.
Rust Monster has a damage debuff for its active which requires you to get hit. For a CW like yourself, Rust would be a bad idea, since you're a , well, squishy wizard.
Not sure about Entangling.
Since Jagged Dancing Blade is junk and Rust Monster is negligible on a CW,
I'd reccomend Rebel/Air/Erinyes/Fire/Wild Hunt.
Party: DC, CW, SW, GF, GWF
DC + CW apply debuffs reaching the 200% cap. At this point everyone else should just run Vorpals and stack Damage buffs?
I understand this thread is about what works, what exceeds caps, and what gets mitigated, but now that we have that information we can begin to filter out excess debuffs from the party and focus on buffs right? I ask this because as a GWF, it would be completely unnecessary to run any debuffs if my party has already reached the debuff cap. (If marks don't stack, running Battle Fury would be more effective) This is just an example for my class. This was also discussed in the DC forum in regards to stacking debuffs between two DCs. I might be missing something but it would appear that in most parties when running 2xDC you can reach the debuff cap with just 1 DC plus a few debuffs from another class, meaning the other DC might as well be a power sharing Haste Cleric or anything outside of being a debuff cleric. When you understand what stacks and what doesn't you can really change the diversity of the party. Buffs become > Debuffs past 200%? (Any buffs, not exclusively Damage buffs)