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Piercing in PVE
prettyflacko1
Member Posts: 26 Arc User
in The Wilds
So when running combat in PVE, is there a need for armor pen? I've read that piercing makes armor pen useless in PVP, was wondering if it worked the same in PVE.
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How does a combat HR deals damage without armpen if all they do is stack crits in PvP like what @icyphish said? More specifically, how does piercing blade work? He mentioned it's pre-mitigated. But from what? Post-mitigated damage from encounters/at-wills or just outright 50% outright total pre-mitigated encounter/at-wills damage?
@clonkyo1 said that Piercing Blade does 70k damage against him. Pretty sick if I can do it in PvE but I don't see those numbers. What kind of build with an offhand weapon damage less than 1k could do to deal that kind of damage? I'm not sure if it's 1v1 either in his situation. Totally unlikely since he said "within 2 seconds". I assume that he got dunked by a TR + HR combo with Gushing Wound + Duelist Flurry + whatever HR's at-wills, at which, I also can assume that he's standing still (roots, ice, stun) or couldn't retreat successfully (slows) from CC.
Lots of them complain on the combo PG + Piercing.
So, for you, @prettyflacko1, it's better to stack armpen and save you a headache later. Just in case the devs decide to act from all that PvP wailing.
Edit: I'll test with logs when I get home. Starting with PG + Piercing + armpen vs PG + Piercing (without armpen).
Edit 2: *sigh* what did I got myself into. There's no gold dummies. And have to test it with the same group of gold mobs (which means, without killing them) in big HEs in stronghold.
But still, Blade Hurricane sounds off. It only enhances melee at-wills (yup only melee at-wills) after using a melee encounter for 2 seconds. I don't think a PvP combat Ranger would want to stay in one spot to land some small hits. Actually, one did misunderstood how Flurry works. It won't buff encounters.
Nah. Combat HRs in PvE are there for the fun of it, just like Whisperknife Scoundrel TRs with Wicked Reminder and Bait and Switch slotted.
Ah. So you got CC'd. Yeah. You're pretty much done. By any chance did you see what encounter he used? PG is obviously one. Boar Charge for knockdown or was it a mount power/arti? Aimed Strike is probably used to get some BH damage out. Gushing Wound is a possibility but he finished you quickly so it's out of the picture.
Edit: I think the damage from Piercing should stay but either with piercing tenacity or remove piercing (remains only damage). Because like you said, in PvE, it's not really a good damage source but it perks out with high deflect, self-heal feat and continuous rotation between melee and range.
PG will grant Flurry. Piercing Blades will proc for each tick of PG for 50% of that damage tick. Also, where Piercing Blades shine.
One swing of Clear the Ground puts out 2 additional strikes with Flurry. So, Piercing Blades will proc 3 times at 50% at-will damage, 50% damage from Flurry.
Example, 1k damage of Clear the Ground will give out 500 Piercing damage. Blade Hurricane strikes for 1650, which procs Piercing Blades for 825 damage.
Flurry lasts about 5 swings of Clear the Ground, so total Piercing Blades damage dealt will be around 6.6k.
3 encounters will amount to about 20k.
Blade Storm: When dealing melee damage, you have 25% chance to deal an additional 5% damage in an area around you (20% at rank 4).
Example, PG with 10k damage per tick procs Piercing Blades (5k per tick) and Blade Storm (assume it procs - 2.5k damage per tick)
Blade Storm also procs Piercing Blades (1k per tick).
You have 25% chance to deal 7.5k piercing damage and another separate 25% chance to deal 1k piercing damage.
I only speak for Stormwarden, will respec to Pathfinder if ZAX restores itself again.
Note: This post will be edited once I'm done testing the unknown.
Solved
Not sure if I want to elaborate Combat Stormwarden in PvP, but PvE.....spin-to-win. Yup. That pretty much sums up my feels and I'm liking it.
Edit: Just give it a whirl by solo-ing Subterranean Surge in Drowned Shore and pull every mob with your arrow at-will. Switch to melee stance and spin your way to the light.
This is how I guess it went. Longstrider for the damage buff, ambush for stealth and damage buff, lion mount attack to prone, drop plantgrowth, and perhaps gushing wound, plus whatever at-wills he had loaded. Though that's hell to land on someone experienced. That would produce a huge mushroom cloud of nasty red numbers.
That's the rotation I use on DCs, OPs and GFs. Though I used to have to use either the rod of restraint or boarcharge to disable them. It's a very specific load out, and near useless in general combat. It's a "hey, just for fun, let's try and kill that damn immortal toon squatting on mid." rotation. Or a troll rotation, which you use in 1 on 1 when everything you have is off cooldown and ready to go, trying for that one-rotation kill that GFs pull off so effortlessly.
How's about you just, I dunno, get over it..?
The only way to achieve that, is using longstriders buff, then Plant Growth, then split strike, he says 2 seconds, that means= 2 ticks of plant growth + 2 split strikes
2 tick from PB hitting for 25k total (12,5k + 12,5k) + 2hits from split for 10k total (5k + 5k) + 2 hits from blade hurricane for 32k total (8+8+8+8). All this is percing damage = 67k
For this damage, he need to land all this critical and be empowered with longstrider's shot buff while enemy is standing still and not disableing/stunning or attacking back the HR otherwise, rotation and buff will be lost (blade hurricane is a 2 seconds buff and longstriders shot is a 3 seconds buff).
For PVE you need armor penetration, otherwise you will be dealing like 20% of your initial damage, piercing blades is an additional damage based on the damage that you deal, it's not like Shocking Execution.
@Clonkyo1 before you comment about something, you should informate first, piercing blade CAN NOT multi proc from a single attack, if you get a 25k hit, piercing blades can not multi proc 5 times from that same damage dealing 140k, what can happen is that piercing blade proc several times a second from different attacks, but since piercing blades is NOT a FLAT damage like shadow opportunity, it's pointless,why? because piercing blades can proc 100 times in a second, but dealing 1 damage, so 100 piercing damage total or can proc a single time dealing 20k damage
Of curse it need the be pre mitigated, other wise it won't be piercing damage don't you think? Piercing Blades is an ADDITIONAL 50% of your melee damage as piercing, for example, a 5k damage from a encounter deals 5k normal damage + 2,5k piercing, obviously being pre-mitigated, otherwise it won't be piercing if its being reduced from defenses, like for example: 5k damage from encounter being reduced to 1k normal damage, so 500 damage being piercing = 1,5k damage
no difference from a 50% non piercing damage increase: 1k + 50% = 1,5k This rotation cannot benefit from blade hurricane and so it's impossible to hit for 70k,
Using 2 melee encounter powers nullifies your last feat (blade hurricane), so rapid strikes will be hitting for 2k + 1,5k piercing at most
I have played against top hr in neverwinter, they nearly 1 hit me, dealing 80k damage in 2 seconds, thats the damage you deal when you have 130% resistence ignored and piercing damage on top.
My conclusion is that the problem is not piercing damage, it's the damage itself, because the same HR's takes about 4 seconds to kill me with trapper build using plant growth.
Thanks to this cap, Piercing blades does not appear after evey hit, example
you deal 300 damage
piercing blades deal 150 damage.
Instead it shows like this:
You deal 300 damage
you deal 500 damage
you deal 300 damage
your piercing blades deals 150 damage
your piercing blades deal 150 damage
There we lose our damage from the 500 one, but my point is that you are only seeing the part that shows 300, 150 150.
Here is an act screen shot to explain a real world case:
Gushing wound deal 16 hits in about one second, because the cap on piercing blades, only 5 of them proc piercing blades, in your log it would appear like this:
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Aura of courage deals 1500 damage
Gushing Wound deals 9000 damage
Piercing Blade deals 4500 damage
Piercing Blade deals 4500 damage
Piercing Blade deals 4500 damage
Piercing Blade deals 4500 damage
Thats another question, as i mention before, for rapid succesive hits, piercing blades deals less damage, piercing damage is the main source of damage because it combines the damage of all powers (since it's and additional damage, it's apart in another damage floater) with 100% effectivness, while normal powers get reduced by defenses, either way, my gushing wound was tested against a mob with a lot of players attacking it, so all the 15 ticks of gushing wound are done in a second, this was for testing the cap. If my gushing wound were in a dummy with no allies attacking it, my piercing blade would deal at least 40k damage, because it's not hitting any "hit/s" cap.
Piercing Blades deals 50% of the unmitigated damage of your melee attacks as piercing damage.
In PVP unmitigated damage is usually higher than mitigated damage especially against tanky classes that can basically mitigate your damage to very low levels. Piercing blades becomes the main source of your damage then, so it makes sense to boost unmitigated damage only and forget about arpen.
In PVE the situation is exactly the opposite. Mitigated damage (if you have a decent level of arpen) is always higher than umitigated as basically mosters don't mitigate anything anymore due to the arpen you have and you also get the effect of buff/debuffs that increase your actual damage. Piercing blades becomes far less important and moreso the more buffs to your mitigated damage you get, so I'll recommend getting your 60% resistance ignored. Maybe, and I am saying maybe, the optimum is slightly below 60% stacking a bit more power and crit but given the fact that the treshold will vary depending on the amount of buffs/debuffs you get ,the calculation is difficult and probably not worth the effort in reality.
During the HR balance pass somebody suggested the option to make Piercing Blades damage based on mitigated damage instead of unmitigated. In that case the Combat HR would be seriously gimped in PVP but an absolute meatgrinder in PVE.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I rather use Commanding Shot than Longstrider/Gushing Wound for debuff on boss.
For mobs, Oak Skin to soften Throw Caution's damage resistance penalty.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
No feats will be 40% damage bonus, 20% damage resistance debuff.