And, the worst and usually obtained reward should be worth no less than 75% of the cost of the Legendary Dragon Key. We did finish the run and are entitled to be rewarded. Also, no boss should ever drop nothing.
Or, bring back Dungeon Delves where all the chests are unlocked. Or, make the Key available from within the run as in Cloak Tower.
I do like the idea of getting the key while running the dungeon. It would be great to have a *bonus* path where you can do something to get the bonus key as a drop. Maybe an extra boss or puzzle or something. You can buy, craft or take a little longer in the dungeon itself to do an extra part to get the key for free - by playing. Imagine that.
I don't see why the preview option has to go away, if they fix the loot drops we will use keys. That's their goal right?
Currently we are not using keys when we don't want to. They want to change that.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
They have zero plans on making the drops THAT much better @verminus#5170 . They will force those players that put up with it to use keys for minimally updated drop rates. And they'll never list percentages either.
They're moving the game fully into the pay to progress realm, and they hope enough players put up with it. The new raid has three chests that one will need zen keys for if they want to run more than one raid per day. THREE.
This post is only to stop the bleeding for the time being. None of this feedback matters, sadly.
null But if they increase the loot we WILL use keys, if we use keys there's no reason to remove the preview.
See if they only rise drops by small amount and make u use a key everytime. You will never know how good the drops aren't or you will be broke. They win both ways.
You will never know how good the drops aren't or you will be broke
Not exactly an accurate observation here. If you use 5 keys and the loot still sucks some people will probably assume that the drop rate for good items hasn't changed much and will stop buying the keys. You may never know how "good" th edrops are but you sure can figure out how bad they are pretty easily.
Also, I have this deep dread that the drop rates will be improved for 1-2 months to ease us back in. Then one they have our confidence back they can slowly lower it again in the background.
A good decision to reschedule the changes to dungeon keys until the loot drop rate is increased and one which has gone a long way to restore my faith in the developers. Thanks for listening and taking note of what many players have been asking for regarding this matter.
Sorry for the manual quoting here, had to take out the previous posts because I was over the posting character limit:
"lol why do people sell themselves short when asking for things? I think the rewards should be a little better than your asking for. what you're asking for is boring stuff that won't have people coming back. shards of pressie wards????? really???? lol. maybe shards of coal wards. better yet.. just have coal wards drop. none of your suggestions are terrible they're just what the absolute flat out bottom level reward should be. I don't want to see an aqua marine from ANY boss unless it drops in multiples of four. lol
there is no reason to be so humble in requests for dungeon drops. it should be amazing to keep people coming back. these suggestions aren't though. it would normalize into the same ol same ol we have now of oh gee I know what I"m gonna get why bother. the tables need to be MUCH bigger than this and much more randomized."
Lol +1
Some of that stuff on that list was good but I also was facepalming a bit over the aquamarine. Should be 5 or more aquas minimum alongside other good rewards that change each time. I somehow missed the shards being mentioned but I agree that that's a terrible idea. I did however like their idea of the dragon hoard enchantments as a drop in the lostmauth dungeon and gigantic enchantments at rank 8 from Fangbreaker. All the dungeons should have extra themed goods added to the loot table for each different dungeon in addition to a generous list of desirable generally avalable loot that can drop. When we go to open that chest, it should not be the same thing everytime, there should be a smorgasboard of potential things that could appear and we should be guarenteed to walk away with items more valuble than the amount it costed to make/buy our keys. The mixing of the loot and making sure the potential loot list is a long one also would help prevent valuble loot from becoming devalued since its not scored on every single run. Any fixed items that drop every single time run the risk of being devalued.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
i have seen lot of other players "praised" for listening, but i am still holding out and still in doubt, and i am sure just about everyone will be very upset with chests not being upgraded enough or too small to improve, then pitchforks and torches are still in effect, wont dying down. i am just cautioned for "wait and see" mode. 10.5 mod would the at the point of no-return if failed to meet on players' expecting alot because we have been hurt by nerfs and terrible RNG.
i have seen lot of other players "praised" for listening, but i am still holding out and still in doubt, and i am sure just about everyone will be very upset with chests not being upgraded enough or too small to improve, then pitchforks and torches are still in effect, wont dying down. i am just cautioned for "wait and see" mode. 10.5 mod would the at the point of no-return if failed to meet on players' expecting alot because we have been hurt by nerfs and terrible RNG.
Yep, mob is still at the gate ready to storm, or find something else to do with their time other than neverwinter.
A word for all the people reading this thread and any posting on it as well:
#1 Rule: DO NOT BE AFRAID TO POST YOUR IDEAS EVEN IF ITS THE SAME THINGS OTHERS HAVE SAID. The more people vouging for an idea or giving similar feedback, the more likely it is to be taken into account. This company has shown repeatedly that they only care about something when a lot of people are saying it if at all. Until we can be sure that trend is to actually come to an end, the more people posting similar ideas, the more likely these ideas are to actually get used. Also post your more unique ideas if you have them.
More people need to post on this thread, I'm disappointed to see this few replies after how many people showed up for the first thread on the key announcement.
I took to spaming the link to this thread over multaple chat channels the first couple of days, more people should help spread this thread in game to anyone they can so more people come here. I'm not sure most of the people who came here for the first key thread know about the followup/update and many probably still think the keychange is going live in only 6 days time. Look at the number of views this thread has, only 14k when the origional announcement was over 80k views.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Basically this means we are in for 3 months of the same unrewarding gameplay. I would rather have better rewards now.
I'd like that too but they can't do it instantly, they shouldn't and can't afford wait months and months either, but they do need some time to make this stuff, hopefully have us review it, and then add it into the game.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Basically this means we are in for 3 months of the same unrewarding gameplay. I would rather have better rewards now.
Agreed!
What they should do is figure out, by looking through this post, what would be some easy stuff to phase in. IDK, maybe they have an idea of some easy stuff to phase in now. Either way they should not wait 3 months to do something....
I think there a plenty of suggestions that wouldn't require to much programming and testing to make rewards better. All they have to do is commit to some of them before a whole scale revamp is done.
For the most part though our gaming experience hasn't changed much because the preview "bug" fix has been shelved. Also, I think they understand the frustration players have been dealing with as far as rewards since Mod 6 went live. I know its really hard, hell even i'm having difficultly saying this, give Cryptic the benefit of doubt here, they understand what is at stake and indeed have probably lost some players that will never come back just because of the announcement.
No other post in the history of the forum generated a HAMSTER ton of angst as this one did: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1223956/dungeon-key-changes/p1, in a very short time I might add, the AD change announcement was bigger but took a month to reach the size this one did. Even a monkey could understand, after posting that, people were not happy with their playing experience.
I like the idea over having the key drop during gameplay possibly for running something other than the main part of the dungeon. May be hidden in a box so you have to check everything if you want the key. Another idea my guild had is creating a new permanent key available for a one-time purchase of Zen to un lock the chest at the end. There should be a different key for each dungeon or skirmish. To avoid inventory clutter a new purchasable item called a key ring could be available to consolidate all keys down into one item. If I knew I would be guaranteed to get into the chest every single time and not have to purchase multiple keys I would be happy to pay a one-time fee. it would be kind of like the upgrades on the Hammerstone pick and master trowel. Give me some feed back. What do all of you in the community think of this idea?
i did offer some suggestions, many ideas in several topics, only idea that got thru and accepted was "Alliances" several months ago when i spearheaded last year, and that was successful for many smaller guilds, and anyway, i thank you devs and those players who supported.
Hey people..what procentual droprate would you like to see on stuff like "Shard of Orcus Wand//Rings +5 etc//the new legendary marks? Would be pleased about to see a coalescent ward dropping in chests or some epic companions/mounts too... But to make those things real it takes a complete improvement of the zen market.. which means a lot of work. I think there is a way to satisfy the players and also the company....so please keep on staying in contact with us, the community.
i'm mildly dyslexic. I misread it differently. I read it as 30% off. as in 70% of normal price. I was also still waking up when I replied. weird disconnect. my bad.
@ecrana#2080 No if after five runs they will just say its just rngesus, keep buying keys you might get what u want.
The preview is an awesome feature that we shouldn't have to give up, just because they want to sell keys...make the loot good enough and we will run out of keys. Then u have us buying keys cause the loot is too good to pass up and we are having FUN opening chests and getting loot.
My BF last night said he was sick of this game... I woke up and he was on battlefront. I asked what he was sick of and his response was
"I just did the math on how many Coal wards I'm going to need to upgrade my gear, do you know how much money that is?"
He's been playing since day 1 on the PS4 with me - he still hasn't gotten a drop from any dungeon. We run LoL at least 4 times per day just for the AD. In all those runs of that dungeon - I've gotten 1 horn and 1 necklace (which I gave to him). He hasn't gotten a single drop worth anything.
What makes people keep playing is opening that chest and screaming with delight at what they just got.
This game doesn't have that.
Put what we need in there, put what we want in there. Our guild bank has 13 some Breyer's Draconic Investigations piled up in it because nobody wants that hampster.
To be honest I think you've already lost him as a player. 3 months no drops will do that to someone. I asked if he wanted me to buy him another month of VIP and he said not to bother.
Coal Wards, Preservation Wards, AD jackpots, Companion upgrade tokens, Companions, mounts, Artifacts, stronghold vouchers, level appropriate enchantments (LoL should not drop level 5, seriously) trade bars, you have ten billion forms of currency - put a bunch of that in there too.
No story starts out with "Hey I heard this dungeon has a roll of pennies at the end of it, let's go risk our lives, and spend half our day searching for it."
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
I feel the developer shouldnt ask the player about what should be rewarded. Asking opinion from player will upset the balance even more if they are dishonest. Instead they should make a study on other popular MMO reward system and gain insight from there.
But from my opinion, the original reward system pre-mod 6 is fine with a sure drop BoE piece from boss after the fight and everyone is entitle to roll for it. The chest reward is just a bonus and they are BoP. Pretty much common MMO loot system and is on the right track. Though this changes when the developer back then went in the wrong direction by tweaking and readjusting rng to solve a problem. The problem that change this is during mod 4 alot people are complaining about exploiter kicking party member to get the loot. So the developer take away the roll system on boss loot and make it so everyone will have their own loot. But this way will make everyone getting item real fast because rng is no longer share among party member. To solve this developer started to tighten the RNG. So we start seeing peridot and junk drop from boss and chest reward, although BoE, has very strict RNG. Dungeon are no longer rewarding as it use to pre-mod 6. Everytime i played it, although there are reward, my heart still feel empty. They should have take away the vote kick system back then and only allow player to quit the instance instead of messing with the reward system to solve the problem. Other MMO with similar loot system does not have kick party member option. They either go in as a group or fail the instance and quit it. The way they handle problem back during mod 6 is just so wrong and upset alot of balance and the reward system take a huge hit indirectly. If they had made a study and compare with other MMO out there, they wouldnt have made this mistake and eventually having loot balance problem. The current reward system is still very out of place and this game used to have a balanced loot system. They just need to figure out where went wrong.
No meaningful replies from management means they're not listening. This token gesture is just to appease the gullible ones.
They're losing players over this, and other grave mistakes. I just need to decide my next course of action. Personally, I have yet to play through all of the awesome leveling zones, as I out leveled stuff too fast and skipped it. The early stuff truly is great fun.
Screw up the loot change = Playersquit +5 Further voningrind mods = Playersquit +5
Continue to scam the players with many types of same resource, terrible loot, clear monetising over quality content then youll have an abundance of Shards of Orcus to shove somewhere...
After 12 pages of ideas, suggestions, and pleas, I would ask to focus on one idea:
Why was pre-mod 6 (with the exception of Black Ice farming) so successful? I think Greyhawk and others have mentioned it several times: The leveling content was awesome--great story lines, achievements worth obtaining, and dungeons that were awesome with Loot to use or share or sell. You brought back a great storyteller to do Maze engine--how did people respond??
D&D is storyline, and i suggest that people play D&D, electronic and board game, because they want to use their imagination along with stomping some monsters. They want to build their character and fit it into the Forgotten Realms World. The leveling content does that. The Maze Engine does that (repetitive tasks notwithstanding). What stops character development is the massive gate for leveling 'end game' toons and the current key to that incremental development is dungeon chests.
Please bring the D&D aspect back into the game for endgame content. Ask yourself, as a Dev in an electronic D&D game, why do players choose this game over the others that are out there? I believe the players enjoy the mystique of entering a dungeon to chase an elusive reward, killing a few bosses along the way. They also want to develop their characters, complete with persona and background and special traits. Even as a BIS player, they still have items that they want to chase or tasks that they want to accomplish. As successful Dungeon Masters, you should be encouraging, managing, and providing for their growth.
That may sound sappy, but if you don't provide for that content, players can just play a 1st person shooter game. It would be just as rewarding.
Comments
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
They're moving the game fully into the pay to progress realm, and they hope enough players put up with it. The new raid has three chests that one will need zen keys for if they want to run more than one raid per day. THREE.
This post is only to stop the bleeding for the time being. None of this feedback matters, sadly.
But if they increase the loot we WILL use keys, if we use keys there's no reason to remove the preview.
See if they only rise drops by small amount and make u use a key everytime. You will never know how good the drops aren't or you will be broke. They win both ways.
Also, I have this deep dread that the drop rates will be improved for 1-2 months to ease us back in. Then one they have our confidence back they can slowly lower it again in the background.
"lol why do people sell themselves short when asking for things? I think the rewards should be a little better than your asking for. what you're asking for is boring stuff that won't have people coming back. shards of pressie wards????? really???? lol. maybe shards of coal wards. better yet.. just have coal wards drop. none of your suggestions are terrible they're just what the absolute flat out bottom level reward should be. I don't want to see an aqua marine from ANY boss unless it drops in multiples of four. lol
there is no reason to be so humble in requests for dungeon drops. it should be amazing to keep people coming back. these suggestions aren't though. it would normalize into the same ol same ol we have now of oh gee I know what I"m gonna get why bother. the tables need to be MUCH bigger than this and much more randomized."
Lol +1
Some of that stuff on that list was good but I also was facepalming a bit over the aquamarine. Should be 5 or more aquas minimum alongside other good rewards that change each time. I somehow missed the shards being mentioned but I agree that that's a terrible idea. I did however like their idea of the dragon hoard enchantments as a drop in the lostmauth dungeon and gigantic enchantments at rank 8 from Fangbreaker. All the dungeons should have extra themed goods added to the loot table for each different dungeon in addition to a generous list of desirable generally avalable loot that can drop. When we go to open that chest, it should not be the same thing everytime, there should be a smorgasboard of potential things that could appear and we should be guarenteed to walk away with items more valuble than the amount it costed to make/buy our keys. The mixing of the loot and making sure the potential loot list is a long one also would help prevent valuble loot from becoming devalued since its not scored on every single run. Any fixed items that drop every single time run the risk of being devalued.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
i am just cautioned for "wait and see" mode.
10.5 mod would the at the point of no-return if failed to meet on players' expecting alot because we have been hurt by nerfs and terrible RNG.
#1 Rule:
DO NOT BE AFRAID TO POST YOUR IDEAS EVEN IF ITS THE SAME THINGS OTHERS HAVE SAID. The more people vouging for an idea or giving similar feedback, the more likely it is to be taken into account. This company has shown repeatedly that they only care about something when a lot of people are saying it if at all. Until we can be sure that trend is to actually come to an end, the more people posting similar ideas, the more likely these ideas are to actually get used. Also post your more unique ideas if you have them.
More people need to post on this thread, I'm disappointed to see this few replies after how many people showed up for the first thread on the key announcement.
I took to spaming the link to this thread over multaple chat channels the first couple of days, more people should help spread this thread in game to anyone they can so more people come here. I'm not sure most of the people who came here for the first key thread know about the followup/update and many probably still think the keychange is going live in only 6 days time. Look at the number of views this thread has, only 14k when the origional announcement was over 80k views.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
What they should do is figure out, by looking through this post, what would be some easy stuff to phase in. IDK, maybe they have an idea of some easy stuff to phase in now. Either way they should not wait 3 months to do something....
I think there a plenty of suggestions that wouldn't require to much programming and testing to make rewards better. All they have to do is commit to some of them before a whole scale revamp is done.
For the most part though our gaming experience hasn't changed much because the preview "bug" fix has been shelved. Also, I think they understand the frustration players have been dealing with as far as rewards since Mod 6 went live. I know its really hard, hell even i'm having difficultly saying this, give Cryptic the benefit of doubt here, they understand what is at stake and indeed have probably lost some players that will never come back just because of the announcement.
No other post in the history of the forum generated a HAMSTER ton of angst as this one did: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1223956/dungeon-key-changes/p1, in a very short time I might add, the AD change announcement was bigger but took a month to reach the size this one did. Even a monkey could understand, after posting that, people were not happy with their playing experience.
If I knew I would be guaranteed to get into the chest every single time and not have to purchase multiple keys I would be happy to pay a one-time fee. it would be kind of like the upgrades on the Hammerstone pick and master trowel. Give me some feed back. What do all of you in the community think of this idea?
But to make those things real it takes a complete improvement of the zen market..
which means a lot of work. I think there is a way to satisfy the players and also the company....so please keep on staying in contact with us, the community.
No if after five runs they will just say its just rngesus, keep buying keys you might get what u want.
The preview is an awesome feature that we shouldn't have to give up, just because they want to sell keys...make the loot good enough and we will run out of keys. Then u have us buying keys cause the loot is too good to pass up and we are having FUN opening chests and getting loot.
"I just did the math on how many Coal wards I'm going to need to upgrade my gear, do you know how much money that is?"
He's been playing since day 1 on the PS4 with me - he still hasn't gotten a drop from any dungeon. We run LoL at least 4 times per day just for the AD. In all those runs of that dungeon - I've gotten 1 horn and 1 necklace (which I gave to him). He hasn't gotten a single drop worth anything.
What makes people keep playing is opening that chest and screaming with delight at what they just got.
This game doesn't have that.
Put what we need in there, put what we want in there. Our guild bank has 13 some Breyer's Draconic Investigations piled up in it because nobody wants that hampster.
To be honest I think you've already lost him as a player. 3 months no drops will do that to someone. I asked if he wanted me to buy him another month of VIP and he said not to bother.
Coal Wards, Preservation Wards, AD jackpots, Companion upgrade tokens, Companions, mounts, Artifacts, stronghold vouchers, level appropriate enchantments (LoL should not drop level 5, seriously) trade bars, you have ten billion forms of currency - put a bunch of that in there too.
No story starts out with "Hey I heard this dungeon has a roll of pennies at the end of it, let's go risk our lives, and spend half our day searching for it."
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
But from my opinion, the original reward system pre-mod 6 is fine with a sure drop BoE piece from boss after the fight and everyone is entitle to roll for it. The chest reward is just a bonus and they are BoP. Pretty much common MMO loot system and is on the right track. Though this changes when the developer back then went in the wrong direction by tweaking and readjusting rng to solve a problem. The problem that change this is during mod 4 alot people are complaining about exploiter kicking party member to get the loot. So the developer take away the roll system on boss loot and make it so everyone will have their own loot. But this way will make everyone getting item real fast because rng is no longer share among party member. To solve this developer started to tighten the RNG. So we start seeing peridot and junk drop from boss and chest reward, although BoE, has very strict RNG. Dungeon are no longer rewarding as it use to pre-mod 6. Everytime i played it, although there are reward, my heart still feel empty. They should have take away the vote kick system back then and only allow player to quit the instance instead of messing with the reward system to solve the problem. Other MMO with similar loot system does not have kick party member option. They either go in as a group or fail the instance and quit it. The way they handle problem back during mod 6 is just so wrong and upset alot of balance and the reward system take a huge hit indirectly. If they had made a study and compare with other MMO out there, they wouldnt have made this mistake and eventually having loot balance problem. The current reward system is still very out of place and this game used to have a balanced loot system. They just need to figure out where went wrong.
They're losing players over this, and other grave mistakes. I just need to decide my next course of action. Personally, I have yet to play through all of the awesome leveling zones, as I out leveled stuff too fast and skipped it. The early stuff truly is great fun.
Screw up the loot change = Playersquit +5
Further voningrind mods = Playersquit +5
Continue to scam the players with many types of same resource, terrible loot, clear monetising over quality content then youll have an abundance of Shards of Orcus to shove somewhere...
Why was pre-mod 6 (with the exception of Black Ice farming) so successful? I think Greyhawk and others have mentioned it several times: The leveling content was awesome--great story lines, achievements worth obtaining, and dungeons that were awesome with Loot to use or share or sell. You brought back a great storyteller to do Maze engine--how did people respond??
D&D is storyline, and i suggest that people play D&D, electronic and board game, because they want to use their imagination along with stomping some monsters. They want to build their character and fit it into the Forgotten Realms World. The leveling content does that. The Maze Engine does that (repetitive tasks notwithstanding). What stops character development is the massive gate for leveling 'end game' toons and the current key to that incremental development is dungeon chests.
Please bring the D&D aspect back into the game for endgame content. Ask yourself, as a Dev in an electronic D&D game, why do players choose this game over the others that are out there? I believe the players enjoy the mystique of entering a dungeon to chase an elusive reward, killing a few bosses along the way. They also want to develop their characters, complete with persona and background and special traits. Even as a BIS player, they still have items that they want to chase or tasks that they want to accomplish. As successful Dungeon Masters, you should be encouraging, managing, and providing for their growth.
That may sound sappy, but if you don't provide for that content, players can just play a 1st person shooter game. It would be just as rewarding.