I dont necessarily see why it would hurt to just add it all into item level and give the dungeons a quick "pass" on minimum required ilevels
When has ANYTHING in this game been done to satisfaction, with a quick pass? When has Cryptic given us exactly what we wanted without some other things we didn't. There are too many thing dependent on the current IL rating for me to be comfortable with them changing it again.
Wait, so your arguement against having boons increase your IL is because they have never done anything to your satisfaction. Boons going into your IL is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. It affects your ability to play the game. It gives offensive and defensive boosts, considerable boosts. My question would be how the KiTtEn (didnt really swear there. But I HAVE to make fun of this censorship change. I feel like I'm in the 4th grade on these forums sometimes) did this game go all this time without a actual honest representation of your character?
I rather suggest cut this cr@p from game. U guys so much depend on Gear score evaluating that make me laugh.
It's a good idea to start with. But you're right. Depending on item level to evaluate doesn't evaluate how skilled he is.
I think that IL should be a part of a bigger ranking system for PvE (bronze, silver, gold, whatever) along with other set of requirements like campaign boons, headcount of epic bosses (assuming in thousands), paired with series of trials tied to their class etc. Just a thought. Feel free to shoot it down if you want.
That's why it's called Item Level and not Skill Level. The idea behind this is to set bar's so that people who have no chance due to lack of gear/enchantments/BOONS!!!! cant join into certain skirmishes and dungeons and get ROFLstomped into oblivion. None of this has a damn thing to do with skill level, nor should it.
The idea behind this is not to ban or maybe a better word would be to block bad players from attempting Skirmishes and dungeons. Maybe bad player isn't the right term to use there. Less skilled players, lets go with that one.
Also, I think a whole in depth ranking system based on skill is a bad idea. All that is going to accomplish is further dividing the community in this game. It's already next to impossible for newbies to work their way up to the big leagues because everybody only wants OP SW's/Paladins/etc for their dungeons runs. Lets not make it any worse by adding a success rating that punishes unlucky, unconnected (As in does not have a huge group of high IL friends to run dungeons with) and newer players.
If you want to add achievements like "Completed 300 Castle Never dungeons!" I am all for that. Achievements would give us something more to work for. Anything else just allows people to further block players that may one day rise to the top, but arn't there yet.
If you want to add achievements like "Completed 300 Castle Never dungeons!" I am all for that. Achievements would give us something more to work for. Anything else just allows people to further block players that may one day rise to the top, but aren't there yet.
Achievements is pretty meh if there is no reward in it. A title from an achievement sounds fine by me.
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited September 2016
I'm on a fence with this one. ILevel is a gear score, but there needs to be another score for boons, SH Boons and Mount stuff as well. Perhaps you could creates a final store by adding the 2 and dividing. I don't know. But I agree with the sentiment of a more perfect system.
A 4K is still pretty weak if he doesn't have SH Boons and a goodset of mounts wth purple insignias.... We'd have to implement a 5K or even 6K to really round out the whole thing.
If you know the players, you dont need IL to evaluate their skill, but if you dont know them, you need some system to rank their ability to contribute to the run, however flawed.
Inside guild, alliance and friendlist u know players. But when friends from friendlist are offline, guild mates are either to busy with own dungeon runs, or something else. And u want go with random players. What they do? They evaluate your character by gear score. That is fact. I where in situation, when I got in queue group, and right before we entered dungeon, I was replaced by other player, total random one. And only because he had 100 more GS.
You laugh about ppl concerned about IL and there is always the mysterious 2k player who outdpsed the 3k+ player of the same class. Let me put this into perspective. Sure I was outdpsed when I played my 3.3k GWF by other GWFs with similar or even lower IL, that happens. It would be bad for him, if he would not play his main, better, then I play with an alt. Fact is, that in most runs my chars, sometimes even my DC are dealing more dmg then the PuGs I run with. I play my CW with a buff setup and HV set and still the dmg output of my CW is sometimes 10x of the next PuG.
Yes there are very good players with 'relative' low IL and there are bad players with high IL, but fact is, that you are not a better player per se with low IL and reason dictates, that more of the high IL players play for a longer time and know how to play.
Do u really think player must grind long till he get high or top end gear? Now players lv up new character fast, u get easily drowcraft gear set. or even put some money in game and u have top end gear sets. I know at least 10 players who gear up own characters to Gs 3.2k in 1 month. So do really need play long time till get good gear? Sure they have higher GS than mine SW. But when comes combat, even they hit strong. I still go on pair dps, survivability vise even my Sw is 2.7k. And not even with twisted weapon set.
Ignoring all that, the bad player with a high IL still deals more dmg, then the bad player with a low IL and the good player deals even more dmg with higher IL, then with a low IL.
Old player with more combat experience vs newbie high geared one. Young one go fight face2face. While old player with at least some combat experience hit from side, to get combat advantage and cause more damage. So more less it can be equal. Next young one probably would not have proper build. And I mean no proper build to fit his gameplay. No proper calculated mounts their bonus effect, neither insignias and their combo bonus effect to cover build downsides or give bigger edge.
I met players with just fantastic gear. But he had no proper insignias and mounts bonuses. Not mentioned lot of young ones just smashing keyboards without trying combine encounters to increase their effectivness. Best example Cw's.. I only so 2 Cw's since underdark release who use arcane singularity. All go with highest dps powers without proper calculation.. These 2 ones, use arcane singularity to gather monsters in Cn then release storm pillar + ice terrain and monsters melted. Not mentioned Cw's didn't got hitted. While current young ones, jump in middle enemy ground, cast icy terrain, try cast oppression force, but usually hit ground dead.... So do high/top end gear make player great? Imagine what then skilled player do with high gear..... Enemies melt in seconds...
Sure, the system is flawed. With BIS gear excluding armor and jewelry enchants and support enchants you will have an IL of ~3.5. There are 800 IL without a significant contribution to stats, while companions, boons and bondings can double your dps and contribute nothing to your IL.
For now I play with HB temptation warlock.. I use elemental weapon set with life steal. While new ones don't have life steal.. So my Gs is lower by default. But my contributtion is high. Due higher life steal, i trigger more time buff which give 20% power boost. So for party or anyone near me get high buff. So by gs my warlock is not impressive, but the way how I play and use powers, is other matter. To be fair, in one edemo, i ashamed 3.4k heal DC. Because I could heal way more and faster then that DC. even my SW have punny 2.7k gs.
This GS system must be taken out of game..
As I said, the system is flawed, but better the nothing and without any 'numbers' you would have to inspect every player before you invite him.
But why keep it? I better take party in dungeon, and look how it goes. If certain player is sucker, then I kick him out. Thats it. We have vote kick feature.. Its not like u enter dungeon and must stay with him to the end.
p.s sorry for late replay...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,467Arc User
edited September 2016
No
Item level was supposed to be used to compare 2 piece of equipment. It should not be used as an entrance requirement or measurement of strength. That was the reason why it was changed from gear score to item level. It is a big mistake from the dev to use that as entrance requirement or providing total item level for a character. If that is not the mistake, changing original gear score to this item level was.
One solution is to put back the original gear score. Gear score was a number based on the sum of all the stat of the character regardless if it is from the gear or not.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Yes
Until all things are accounted for and displayed as some sort of power level or item level, balance will never be near completion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Item level was supposed to be used to compare 2 piece of equipment. It should not be used as an entrance requirement or measurement of strength. That was the reason why it was changed from gear score to item level. It is a big mistake from the dev to use that as entrance requirement or providing total item level for a character. If that is not the mistake, changing original gear score to this item level was.
One solution is to put back the original gear score. Gear score was a number based on the sum of all the stat of the character regardless if it is from the gear or not.
Gear score was superior then, and shouldn't have been changed. It would have included SH boons and Insignias, for example. Still not perfect, but better. Besides, some things that do not help in combat can have good item levels--like a DragonHoard for example. And that gets rolled into total IL.
basically ALL stats should go into IL (former >>> gearscore lol). this could go a loooong way to improve matching in pvp...
and arguments such as: it won't solve the WHOLE problem simply inhibit ANY improvement. we have seen it with solo queue, that did not solve ALL problems but was a big step in the right direction.
Comments
The idea behind this is not to ban or maybe a better word would be to block bad players from attempting Skirmishes and dungeons. Maybe bad player isn't the right term to use there. Less skilled players, lets go with that one.
Also, I think a whole in depth ranking system based on skill is a bad idea. All that is going to accomplish is further dividing the community in this game. It's already next to impossible for newbies to work their way up to the big leagues because everybody only wants OP SW's/Paladins/etc for their dungeons runs. Lets not make it any worse by adding a success rating that punishes unlucky, unconnected (As in does not have a huge group of high IL friends to run dungeons with) and newer players.
If you want to add achievements like "Completed 300 Castle Never dungeons!" I am all for that. Achievements would give us something more to work for. Anything else just allows people to further block players that may one day rise to the top, but arn't there yet.
A 4K is still pretty weak if he doesn't have SH Boons and a goodset of mounts wth purple insignias.... We'd have to implement a 5K or even 6K to really round out the whole thing.
You laugh about ppl concerned about IL and there is always the mysterious 2k player who outdpsed the 3k+ player of the same class.
Let me put this into perspective. Sure I was outdpsed when I played my 3.3k GWF by other GWFs with similar or even lower IL, that happens. It would be bad for him, if he would not play his main, better, then I play with an alt. Fact is, that in most runs my chars, sometimes even my DC are dealing more dmg then the PuGs I run with. I play my CW with a buff setup and HV set and still the dmg output of my CW is sometimes 10x of the next PuG.
Yes there are very good players with 'relative' low IL and there are bad players with high IL, but fact is, that you are not a better player per se with low IL and reason dictates, that more of the high IL players play for a longer time and know how to play.
Do u really think player must grind long till he get high or top end gear? Now players lv up new character fast, u get easily drowcraft gear set. or even put some money in game and u have top end gear sets. I know at least 10 players who gear up own characters to Gs 3.2k in 1 month. So do really need play long time till get good gear?
Sure they have higher GS than mine SW. But when comes combat, even they hit strong. I still go on pair dps, survivability vise even my Sw is 2.7k. And not even with twisted weapon set.
Old player with more combat experience vs newbie high geared one.
Young one go fight face2face.
While old player with at least some combat experience hit from side, to get combat advantage and cause more damage. So more less it can be equal.
Next young one probably would not have proper build. And I mean no proper build to fit his gameplay. No proper calculated mounts their bonus effect, neither insignias and their combo bonus effect to cover build downsides or give bigger edge.
I met players with just fantastic gear. But he had no proper insignias and mounts bonuses. Not mentioned lot of young ones just smashing keyboards without trying combine encounters to increase their effectivness.
Best example Cw's.. I only so 2 Cw's since underdark release who use arcane singularity. All go with highest dps powers without proper calculation..
These 2 ones, use arcane singularity to gather monsters in Cn then release storm pillar + ice terrain and monsters melted. Not mentioned Cw's didn't got hitted.
While current young ones, jump in middle enemy ground, cast icy terrain, try cast oppression force, but usually hit ground dead....
So do high/top end gear make player great? Imagine what then skilled player do with high gear..... Enemies melt in seconds...
For now I play with HB temptation warlock.. I use elemental weapon set with life steal. While new ones don't have life steal.. So my Gs is lower by default. But my contributtion is high. Due higher life steal, i trigger more time buff which give 20% power boost.
So for party or anyone near me get high buff.
So by gs my warlock is not impressive, but the way how I play and use powers, is other matter. To be fair, in one edemo, i ashamed 3.4k heal DC. Because I could heal way more and faster then that DC. even my SW have punny 2.7k gs.
This GS system must be taken out of game..
As I said, the system is flawed, but better the nothing and without any 'numbers' you would have to inspect every player before you invite him.
But why keep it? I better take party in dungeon, and look how it goes. If certain player is sucker, then I kick him out. Thats it. We have vote kick feature.. Its not like u enter dungeon and must stay with him to the end.
p.s sorry for late replay...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
One solution is to put back the original gear score.
Gear score was a number based on the sum of all the stat of the character regardless if it is from the gear or not.
this could go a loooong way to improve matching in pvp...
and arguments such as: it won't solve the WHOLE problem simply inhibit ANY improvement.
we have seen it with solo queue, that did not solve ALL problems but was a big step in the right direction.