vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited August 2016
premade que is fine but dont solve anything, there will be always much stronger premades than other premades and the weaker premades got tired and start occupy normal que (it already happening before when premades kill gauntlgrym battleground) and everything will be like before, only one alliance will have the possibility to make private ques.
@ayroux, no I should not listen to the PC players. Listening to you would make PvP a mess.
And stop writing a novel with every response.
All we need are private ques. End of story.
Let's see what will happend when you wait for 2 hours to get a premade fight vs another premade team...
Also, you should listen to us, not to players from Xbox or PS4: they don't have our "ways" and experience on these matters.
We have that issue now!
That's the whole point of a private que system.
If PWE can make a private que system that works, there won't be a two hour wait. Just like making a private que to go into a dungeon, once the que is filled for a private match it's instant.
That's the whole point of making a private que, so 10 players can privately play each other in a 5v5 for as and as many matches as they want.
That gives the pugs a break on a normal que.
Precisely, premade teams don't want to pug stomp for 2 hours straight, it's not fun. What is fun is carefully arranging two balanced teams to fight against each other, or getting a bunch of friends together to play. Ranked arena style matches with some nice rewards (similar to World of Warcraft) wouldn't be a bad addition as well if they wanted to further expand on putting premades in their own separate category.
But of course the negativity parade (once again the same trio) has to post in yet another attempt to derail a thread. Next thing you know a nerf rogues discussion will sprout out of thin air.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
@ayroux, no I should not listen to the PC players. Listening to you would make PvP a mess.
And stop writing a novel with every response.
All we need are private ques. End of story.
Let's see what will happend when you wait for 2 hours to get a premade fight vs another premade team...
Also, you should listen to us, not to players from Xbox or PS4: they don't have our "ways" and experience on these matters.
We have that issue now!
That's the whole point of a private que system.
If PWE can make a private que system that works, there won't be a two hour wait. Just like making a private que to go into a dungeon, once the que is filled for a private match it's instant.
That's the whole point of making a private que, so 10 players can privately play each other in a 5v5 for as and as many matches as they want.
That gives the pugs a break on a normal que.
Precisely, premade teams don't want to pug stomp for 2 hours straight, it's not fun. What is fun is carefully arranging two balanced teams to fight against each other, or getting a bunch of friends together to play. Ranked arena style matches with some nice rewards (similar to World of Warcraft) wouldn't be a bad addition as well if they wanted to further expand on putting premades in their own separate category.
But of course the negativity parade (once again the same trio) has to post in yet another attempt to derail a thread. Next thing you know a nerf rogues discussion will sprout out of thin air.
i am for premade que, i will use it too. but you (opal) try sell it to cryptic like thats all we need. its not true and its attempt to misguide developers (shootermclovin) with accusations on me. So in this case i like to write mine words too. Who are you shootermclovin new forum guy? Does anyone even know you?
@ayroux, no I should not listen to the PC players. Listening to you would make PvP a mess.
And stop writing a novel with every response.
All we need are private ques. End of story.
Let's see what will happend when you wait for 2 hours to get a premade fight vs another premade team...
Also, you should listen to us, not to players from Xbox or PS4: they don't have our "ways" and experience on these matters.
We have that issue now!
That's the whole point of a private que system.
If PWE can make a private que system that works, there won't be a two hour wait. Just like making a private que to go into a dungeon, once the que is filled for a private match it's instant.
That's the whole point of making a private que, so 10 players can privately play each other in a 5v5 for as and as many matches as they want.
That gives the pugs a break on a normal que.
Precisely, premade teams don't want to pug stomp for 2 hours straight, it's not fun. What is fun is carefully arranging two balanced teams to fight against each other, or getting a bunch of friends together to play. Ranked arena style matches with some nice rewards (similar to World of Warcraft) wouldn't be a bad addition as well if they wanted to further expand on putting premades in their own separate category.
But of course the negativity parade (once again the same trio) has to post in yet another attempt to derail a thread. Next thing you know a nerf rogues discussion will sprout out of thin air.
i am for premade que, i will use it too. but you (opal) try sell it to cryptic like thats all we need. its not true and its attempt to misguide developers (shootermclovin) with accusations on me. So in this case i like to write mine words too. Who are you shootermclovin new forum guy? Does anyone even know you?
Well if you look at the bigger picture, most premades won't public queue for domination anymore. Additionally, it will separate casual player from the hardcore.
When you say "sell it to Cryptic like this is all we need" like dude, step back and look at what you're typing, this thread was too create an initiative on the whole problem with premades in dom. His proposition has nothing to do with what you are saying. He isn't selling anything, if anything, he is trying to help pugs like you enjoy dom instead of being steamrolled without mercy.
And regarding shooter, dude, what are you 5 lets be adults here come on.
@ayroux, no I should not listen to the PC players. Listening to you would make PvP a mess.
And stop writing a novel with every response.
All we need are private ques. End of story.
Let's see what will happend when you wait for 2 hours to get a premade fight vs another premade team...
Also, you should listen to us, not to players from Xbox or PS4: they don't have our "ways" and experience on these matters.
We have that issue now!
That's the whole point of a private que system.
If PWE can make a private que system that works, there won't be a two hour wait. Just like making a private que to go into a dungeon, once the que is filled for a private match it's instant.
That's the whole point of making a private que, so 10 players can privately play each other in a 5v5 for as and as many matches as they want.
That gives the pugs a break on a normal que.
Precisely, premade teams don't want to pug stomp for 2 hours straight, it's not fun. What is fun is carefully arranging two balanced teams to fight against each other, or getting a bunch of friends together to play. Ranked arena style matches with some nice rewards (similar to World of Warcraft) wouldn't be a bad addition as well if they wanted to further expand on putting premades in their own separate category.
But of course the negativity parade (once again the same trio) has to post in yet another attempt to derail a thread. Next thing you know a nerf rogues discussion will sprout out of thin air.
i am for premade que, i will use it too. but you (opal) try sell it to cryptic like thats all we need. its not true and its attempt to misguide developers (shootermclovin) with accusations on me. So in this case i like to write mine words too. Who are you shootermclovin new forum guy? Does anyone even know you?
Well if you look at the bigger picture, most premades won't public queue for domination anymore. Additionally, it will separate casual player from the hardcore.
When you say "sell it to Cryptic like this is all we need" like dude, step back and look at what you're typing, this thread was too create an initiative on the whole problem with premades in dom. His proposition has nothing to do with what you are saying. He isn't selling anything, if anything, he is trying to help pugs like you enjoy dom instead of being steamrolled without mercy.
And regarding shooter, dude, what are you 5 lets be adults here come on.
bigger picture?
so from where do you think will these premades get theirs daily seal win? premade match against synergy or busters? (if it will include reward at all). dont get me laugh. premades will still occupy normal que to get their resources ....
what if some pvp guild newbie need raven skull quickly? what do you thing will happening? this is bigger picture
1 - Most NON-troll premades, welcome for the correction. Aditionally, nothing forbides to a premade team to public Q instead of private Q if on the second point, they do not find enought players to fill the private Q.
2 - the problem in PvP is not "premades" but "BiS players". The difference between a 2k char compared to a 3k char is a KITTEN abyss, not taking into account SH boons. The diference between a 3k char compared to a 3.6k char is bit more bearable but the difference is still big enough to "notice" it. If all "gear walls" were destroyed/removed, players would enter into PvP with a more secure and better gear than PvE green gear in hopes that they get paired with a good team and be carried as a lot of us saw on SoloQ matches and THIS is the main problem in PvP.
BiS players complaining about BiS players premade are doing so, IMO, for these 2 reasons:
- These players are not premading themselves. This means, that player is being paired with undergeared pugs.
- BiS premade players not admiting that they are just noobs on PvP and only win against undergeared pugs because they lack the skills to fight on equal terms vs other BiS premade.
TL;DR : I don't give a KITTEN about enemy's team gear, but the gear on my team.
3 - Some times, a comical-relief and Dis-stress troll like him is good for forums as pets to not fill the whole forum with techs which a lot of players will not understand at all for various reasons.
Thinking about this entire problem more. I do think you could keep SH and PVP boons in PVP, but remove the rest of the module boons would be a good compromise between the two camps.
It would remove thousands of stats and given that most people are in a halfway decent SH, the stat gain from SH boons wouldnt be that huge.
But this eliminates tons of lifesteal and endless consumption.
No boons should not be removed from PvP. Ridiculous suggestions. We grinded for those in the campaigns and spent months building our Strongholds to earn them.
Private que will fix the issue, not punishing players who have put time into their toons.
I don't understand why certain forum posters aggresively attack ideas that are posted on the forum that aren't in line with their "vision" of pvp. I can't fathom why every thread that they don't like needs to devolve into an unrelated side conversation when it's pretty simple to remain on topic. That being said...
Custom matches aka "Private queues" are not the panacea for all the problems PvP is facing at the moment and that isn't what is being said here. What it does do is provide more robust options for players who worked hard to achieve max item level and want to play with others at that same gear level or those just looking to have fun playing against and with friends, and would require minimal development in order to implement. Obviously there are other problems that need to be addressed, but it has nothing to do with what is being said here.
Cryptic had build private PvP queues. STO has had them for years. The proper question for @panderus is: Why has Cryptic decided not to implement that feature for Neverwinter in the last 3.5 years when it's existed for STO much longer than that?
Make the solo que list, the premade 5v5 special que system and keep the regular domination que. Don't attempt to remove boons or mounts from it that is just crazy. You will see who is really who after we get all those options.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
We definitely have plans to improve the premade vs solo queue issues. One of our recent experiments was the Solo queue the other week and we have more coming that we plan to lead to a permanent solution for players.
This is an issue we are definitely talking about and have in our minds.
We definitely have plans to improve the premade vs solo queue issues. One of our recent experiments was the Solo queue the other week and we have more coming that we plan to lead to a permanent solution for players.
This is an issue we are definitely talking about and have in our minds.
@panderus the real issue in NW isnt premades versus solo Qers. Even during the solo Q event you would have a full BIS player go in and WRECK the entire enemy team. The biggest issue right now is power gap between: PVE and PVPers NEW vs OLD players
There is currently a system where the optimal PVE stats are opposites of PVP. New players cant compete with the gear old BIS PVPers have achieved over years of playing.... Even BIS PVE guys gear gap is FAR too large.
I admit, my proposal to remove ALL boons is maybe excessive. However I do think taking it just ONE step back from that is wise.
- Remove all campaign boons from PVP, with TWO exceptions: Stronghold Boons and PVP Boons. - Remove Crit Suppression on tenacity, but increase the "base" "PVP Damage Resist" up to 40% (from 10%) without items.
Currently PVE players stack crit, and PVPers know NOT to stack crit, because crits deal LESS damage in PVP than non crits due to crit suppression... You want PVE players to play? they need to be a) tankier b) have their 'ideal' stats better suited for PVP. This can be accomplished by both those means above.
Removing campaign boons removes thousands and thousands of stats making the "gear gap" smaller between players. What makes a BIS player able to dominate an entire team is the synergy from all his stats. High arp, power, lifesteal, HP etc. Remove all the campaign boons, this removes tons of offensive and defensive stats as well as endless consumption.
Currently a player gets a "base" tenacity DR of 10% and then with gear can boost this another 35% up to 45%.
My proposal is to remove crit supression, and increase that BASE to 40%. Thus with gear players can get up to 75%. This means a PVE player has an instant boost, even with PVE gear to tankiness - though they would still want PVP gear to get it higher. Allowing for crits to deal more damage and be favorable now.
These two things, would drastically improve PVP. It "nerfs" BIS PVP players the most, who have optimal PVP setups, as now EVERYONE can spec "PVE" for their campaign boons. SH boons are easy because you can swap those at any time and it provides BIG guild incentive to get those up for PVP purposes. With the removal of all those stats, youll see a MUCH better PVP playing field.
Let the PVE campaigns be just that - for PVE where the two "PVP campaigns" can be the only two that impact PVP - SH and PVP.
This is the solution to NWs PVP issues. Not a solo Q option. Will it help? Sure... But my proposal will do MORE than that.
If you want to mess with Ques you actually need 3: 1) Solo - Q ranked 2) Premade - Q ranked 3) FFA Lobby System - unranked and zero rewards.
The ranked Ques need their own leaderboards for each (respective). The FFA Lobby system could be its own "Que". When you "Que" the first guy to enter the room is the "lobby leader" he can adjust teams. Players can Que and enter a lobby. The leader can choose to boot them or not. The leader can choose to make his lobby private and set to "invite only" if they want. This system allows formation of premade vs premades or inhouses... It also allows players to balance teams OR for those who just want to have fun in a casual game with no "rewards".
If you want "rewards" you either solo Q or premade Q.
Why Solo Q wont work - without my suggestions is, the amount of "power" you get (not stat power, but sheer kill power) from boons is what enables a BIS player to literally 1v5 an entire team. Remove alot of those stats, and he loses key things that enable him to kill AND live forever against those teams.
There are certainly balance concerns with Boons (+30k HP!) that we will need to address at some point. It is not currently our biggest focus for either game balance or PvP premade group concerns.
Our solution for premades will likely come before any changes to the boon situation.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
There are certainly balance concerns with Boons (+30k HP!) that we will need to address at some point. It is not currently our biggest focus for either game balance or PvP premade group concerns.
Our solution for premades will likely come before any changes to the boon situation.
thats how it should be, thanks. btw panderus is more active on forum than me nowadays. i am seriously starting to worry mine 1183 posts will be soon beaten by panda (991 now). we need still info about many things, wanna make a race dev man?
ln any game that you play you start weak. you slowly work your way up after playing for weeks, months, years. once youre strong, everythings easy. why would pvp be any different? in every area of this game gear counts, pvp should not be an exception to that rule. get stronger. that being said, i believe the solution should come with a minimum item level to enter pvp based on player level (so like 3k for a level 70). each dungeon has a minimum level, why wouldnt pvp? this would solve a huge problem with the 2k vs 4k crowd... they should never battle honestly. solo queue will help alot, but even if youre solo you have to be able to help the team.
Comments
But of course the negativity parade (once again the same trio) has to post in yet another attempt to derail a thread. Next thing you know a nerf rogues discussion will sprout out of thin air.
When you say "sell it to Cryptic like this is all we need" like dude, step back and look at what you're typing, this thread was too create an initiative on the whole problem with premades in dom. His proposition has nothing to do with what you are saying. He isn't selling anything, if anything, he is trying to help pugs like you enjoy dom instead of being steamrolled without mercy.
And regarding shooter, dude, what are you 5 lets be adults here come on.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
so from where do you think will these premades get theirs daily seal win? premade match against synergy or busters? (if it will include reward at all). dont get me laugh. premades will still occupy normal que to get their resources ....
what if some pvp guild newbie need raven skull quickly? what do you thing will happening? this is bigger picture
It would remove thousands of stats and given that most people are in a halfway decent SH, the stat gain from SH boons wouldnt be that huge.
But this eliminates tons of lifesteal and endless consumption.
Ridiculous suggestions.
We grinded for those in the campaigns and spent months building our Strongholds to earn them.
Private que will fix the issue, not punishing players who have put time into their toons.
opalsunsParagon Gaming
Custom matches aka "Private queues" are not the panacea for all the problems PvP is facing at the moment and that isn't what is being said here. What it does do is provide more robust options for players who worked hard to achieve max item level and want to play with others at that same gear level or those just looking to have fun playing against and with friends, and would require minimal development in order to implement. Obviously there are other problems that need to be addressed, but it has nothing to do with what is being said here.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
This is an issue we are definitely talking about and have in our minds.
PVE and PVPers
NEW vs OLD players
There is currently a system where the optimal PVE stats are opposites of PVP. New players cant compete with the gear old BIS PVPers have achieved over years of playing.... Even BIS PVE guys gear gap is FAR too large.
I admit, my proposal to remove ALL boons is maybe excessive. However I do think taking it just ONE step back from that is wise.
- Remove all campaign boons from PVP, with TWO exceptions: Stronghold Boons and PVP Boons.
- Remove Crit Suppression on tenacity, but increase the "base" "PVP Damage Resist" up to 40% (from 10%) without items.
Currently PVE players stack crit, and PVPers know NOT to stack crit, because crits deal LESS damage in PVP than non crits due to crit suppression... You want PVE players to play? they need to be a) tankier b) have their 'ideal' stats better suited for PVP. This can be accomplished by both those means above.
Removing campaign boons removes thousands and thousands of stats making the "gear gap" smaller between players. What makes a BIS player able to dominate an entire team is the synergy from all his stats. High arp, power, lifesteal, HP etc. Remove all the campaign boons, this removes tons of offensive and defensive stats as well as endless consumption.
Currently a player gets a "base" tenacity DR of 10% and then with gear can boost this another 35% up to 45%.
My proposal is to remove crit supression, and increase that BASE to 40%. Thus with gear players can get up to 75%. This means a PVE player has an instant boost, even with PVE gear to tankiness - though they would still want PVP gear to get it higher. Allowing for crits to deal more damage and be favorable now.
These two things, would drastically improve PVP. It "nerfs" BIS PVP players the most, who have optimal PVP setups, as now EVERYONE can spec "PVE" for their campaign boons. SH boons are easy because you can swap those at any time and it provides BIG guild incentive to get those up for PVP purposes. With the removal of all those stats, youll see a MUCH better PVP playing field.
Let the PVE campaigns be just that - for PVE where the two "PVP campaigns" can be the only two that impact PVP - SH and PVP.
This is the solution to NWs PVP issues. Not a solo Q option. Will it help? Sure... But my proposal will do MORE than that.
If you want to mess with Ques you actually need 3:
1) Solo - Q ranked
2) Premade - Q ranked
3) FFA Lobby System - unranked and zero rewards.
The ranked Ques need their own leaderboards for each (respective).
The FFA Lobby system could be its own "Que". When you "Que" the first guy to enter the room is the "lobby leader" he can adjust teams. Players can Que and enter a lobby. The leader can choose to boot them or not. The leader can choose to make his lobby private and set to "invite only" if they want. This system allows formation of premade vs premades or inhouses... It also allows players to balance teams OR for those who just want to have fun in a casual game with no "rewards".
If you want "rewards" you either solo Q or premade Q.
Why Solo Q wont work - without my suggestions is, the amount of "power" you get (not stat power, but sheer kill power) from boons is what enables a BIS player to literally 1v5 an entire team. Remove alot of those stats, and he loses key things that enable him to kill AND live forever against those teams.
Our solution for premades will likely come before any changes to the boon situation.