Suggestion(balance): Cooldowns on Daily Powers

vcek

It seems many changes concentrate on class balance by changing encounter powers or passive powers, but yet most dont realise the most game breaking mechanic is daily powers without cooldowns(or cooldowns that havent been changed since mod 2).

Some examples with high AP gain sources:

• DC: Annointed Army, can be continuously activated (probably even stacked)
  
• GF: Villian's Menance, can be stacked in pve, continuous in pvp (wont be a BIG problem after nerf of time active)
  
• GWF: Spinning strike, Continously deactivated to gain "when you use a daily" bonuses
  Slam, multiple stacks in pve (ive been able to activate it 3 times co-existingly and it deals 3x damage)
  
• TR: Shocking Execution, 10-15 seconds between multiple strikes with a DC sigil (dont forget additional strike if you are low HP)
  Courage breaker, continously activated in pvp, cannot be dodged by all classes
  
• HR: Has cooldowns, didnt notice any dailies procced multiple times although many dailies have less activation requirement.
  
• SW: Didnt notice any dailies multi-proc, but maybe all dailies can be continuously activated in pve (maybe Tyrannical Threat as example)
  
• OP: Lay on Hands,Shield of Faith,Heroism, no cooldown can be used many times in a row in pvp/pve (especially with judge path)
  
• CW: Oppressive force, can be used mulitple times in pvp and continously in pve with a small cooldown less than 10 seconds between each cast.
  

Simply think how well this will balance the whole game especially in pvp.

• DC: no more continous control/damage immunity (even when piled up against in pvp)
  
• GF: much reduced daily immunity/damage (wont make a difference after nerf)
  
• GWF: much reduced control/damage especially if you get can get stunlocked by cresendo or 2-shot by Indomitable Strength
  
• TR: no more continously high damage with irresistable damage, or continously unable to move with 100% damage reduction
  
• SW: no more crazy damage glitches caused by multiple TT proc
  
• OP: no more infinite crazy heals in pvp/pve with prism/beacon proccing multiple causing server lag
  
• CW: no more continously dazing huge area with already high enough control powers
  
• HR: dailies will be significant compared to other classes
  

I will also suggest to make certain dailies last longer/deal more damage or ignore more immunities if they have their cooldowns introduced. This way players will not just smash buttons whenever daily is available and rather restore the word "DAILY" in "daily power".

Thank you, suggestions welcome

demonmonger

No....

someonedies

I saw it before http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1211195/daily-power-rework

Seems legit; but it will never happen.

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vcek

metalldjt said:

yes they need a 24 hour cooldown since they are called Dailies.

No with all seriousness there isn't a point to give CDs on dailies, thats how the class is meant to play, some of them get their dailies faster than the rest, if you haven't noticed it's usually the Control classes that get their dailies faster.

HR,CW,HR,DC, GF ...
i guess its part of the class mechanic...

They were not meant to be played like this, if you go back to earlier mods dailies took much longer to use. Additionally, they nerfed many dailies like(the one's i remember):
GF's Supremacy of steel(indirect AP gain removed while cast)
OP's Heroism and Divine Protector (buff-time reduction on both)
GF Villian's Menance will get nerfed in mod10(time reduction)
SW's Tyrannical Threat will get nerfed in mod10 (mechanics changed so that it won't stack)
DC's Hallow Ground (indirect AP gain removed while cast)
Instead of nerfing dailies just add a proper cooldown on each daily to adjust its power.

They added many AP sources and didnt change dailies, with tactician GF running in pve you can use daily every 3 seconds if his shield is up in combat(with 100-150% DR ap buff with bondings), it becomes so ridiculous that casting dailies will make a diminishing return effect on dps due to time wasted casting(some classes) dailies.

This proposed change doesn't change the fact that there are 2 daily power slots and you can still use both if you charge up fast enough. Just not spam the same daily over and sometimes stacking dailies.

And no, all classes can use 1)DC sigil,2)Corrupt black ice glyphs,3)Burning Artifact Set,4)Mount power and spam dailies, its not limited to control classes(Soulbinder SW has very high AP gain)

My 2.5k OP healer can stack Shield of Faith daily all the time while in combat
My 3.5k GWF can stack Slam all the time while in combat
My 2.6k DC can stack Annointed Army all the time
My 2.8k TR can stack CB and Lurker's Assault all the time
my level 62 SW(700 il) can stack TT while in pve
Didn't play much on my GF,CW but im 100% sure that at 2.5k GF can stack VM and CW can stack Oppressive Force.

I also noticed most of the spammable dailies are non burst-damage dailies, effect/buff over time dailies, so maybe those dailies get nerf like Indirect(or even direct) AP gain removed while active. (or just simply put a cooldown)

demonmonger

We don't need daily cool downs just use your ap drain wards. Everything is already in place to make your gaming experience work. You just have to build up your character just like those with rapid a gain have done.

Please stop asking for nerds and just focus on building up your characters to handle all types of builds.

I.e. have a second set of armor in your bag with drain wards just for those with builds that focu's on ap.

Any class can counter courge breaker by using ambush rings and zigzagging as soon as cb is cast. (This won't work in mod 10 because they are changing ambush rING mechanics to not work when you move slowly)

I think we need to make a /countermeasures channel in game to help all those who complain find ways to win.

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vcek

defiantone99 said:

This post honestly sounds like an HR wanting to nerf everyone else. If dailies change, Disruptive Shot and its other dailies needs to use 100 percent of AP.

Funny the only class i didn't play is HR, although i do have a level 56 HR that i levelled up by invoking only. But i would disagree with that, damaging HR dailies are very weak currently esp. Disruptive shot, if it used 100%AP it would need to do damage comparable at least to a DC.

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virsalus

If you put cooldowns on dailies you may as well get rid off the whole action point system. I say if players are able to gain AP so fast that they can activate dailies in quick succession then let them. Don't take away all the fun just because you think it's too powerful. What appeal will there be to the max end game if you can't pull SOME cool stuff at least?

vcek

virsalus#4183 said:

If you put cooldowns on dailies you may as well get rid off the whole action point system. I say if players are able to gain AP so fast that they can activate dailies in quick succession then let them. Don't take away all the fun just because you think it's too powerful. What appeal will there be to the max end game if you can't pull SOME cool stuff at least?

There are two daily power slots, you can alternate between them. If you need to use a daily 3 times in less than 10 seconds then there's something broken with AP system.

Pulling away the unnecessary fun to make the game appealing to new players(AKA balance).

spideymt

Can you explain how you can stack slam all the time during combat?

demonmonger

Some other class abilities work to fill ap of all party members quickly.. plus sigil of DC plus mount ability to refill ap.. plus yada yada... just means you have a very good and sometimes very expensive setup.

spideymt

demonmonger said:

Some other class abilities work to fill ap of all party members quickly.. plus sigil of DC plus mount ability to refill ap.. plus yada yada... just means you have a very good and sometimes very expensive setup.

Thats no explanation for a dailie that you can keep up the whole fight as a GWF. So i guess there is no way to keep up slam the whole time during combat? Thx
And btw: "plus yada yada" is a nice way to explain things. Good job

arasu

metalldjt said:

yes they need a 24 hour cooldown since they are called Dailies.

Actually, I used them once a day when I started playing this game

mrvincent1959

Can someone please remove this thread.

vcek

All im SUGGESTING is a small cooldown and a buff to dailies(which aren't burst) so that they aren't just spammed faster than normal encounters

mrvincent1959 said:

Can someone please remove this thread.

If a mod removes the thread then i will be happy my suggestion has reached him. Thank you and please post more.

spideymt said:

Can you explain how you can stack slam all the time during combat?

I you have high buffs from DC and GF you can hit Slam every ~6 seconds without DC sigil, because Slam doesn't block AP gain and GWF has AP gain based off damage, you are either narrowing it to pvp(you can still do it twice with DC sigil in pvp) or have bad dps in pve.

add me ingame @vc3k and ill show you its possible to stack Slam even on dummies

pr3stigex

Another nerf boy

marnival

pr3stigex said:

Another nerf boy

Actually no .

Some daily powers was never ment to be spammed.
OP dailies is a good example of this and instead of putting a idc on them they nerfed them so new low geared players suffer the most.

For us that have played the game since beta/module 1 it is quite obvious that dailies has become more like encounters then dailies.

Exe in pvp is a good example of this, putting a 30 sec idc on the most powerful dailies is not a big deal and would most certainly prevent some of the abuse that is going on now(that was never intended from the beginning).

A lot of feats is activated/effected by dailies which makes them even more game breaking when spammed non stop.

There is a reason they are called Daily Powers separated from encounters and at wills, when you spam dailies faster then encounters some adjustments might not be a bad thing....

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asterotg

desisti said:

marnival said:

Exe in pvp is a good example of this, putting a 30 sec idc on the most powerful dailies is not a big deal and would most certainly prevent some of the abuse that is going on now(that was never intended from the beginning).

There is a reason they are called Daily Powers separated from encounters and at wills, when you spam dailies faster then encounters some adjustments might not be a bad thing....

Agreed but...
It will be a outrage if anything similar is implemented largely because of RP that many of us invested into DC sigil. Many of us have no other purpose for that arti except AP gain (I, for example, have 2 or 3 more suitable aris for my build).
Either exchange vendor (like in case of LM) or make it one-time refinable into ANY other arti (stability/union/power) with 2x return.

How about flail snail, fire weapons, +AP companions, necklaces, jewels etc. How would you deal with that? Sorry you spent 17 kk AD on a flail snail, the bonus was OP so we nerfed it, same goes for your companions for 2 kk AD each, my bad? Compared to these numbers the RP in a DC signil are marginal.

bvira

I miss the old days when it actually took some time and effort to build up AP. Now I can have Hallowed Ground with close to 100% up-time.

kozilek1989

\^.^/well look at chu,made a post that covered everybody,you must of spent hours,days and years going thru each daily on preview and figured out what was the root of the problem,but their is one problem,your talking about a very small group of BIS endgame char's their is more new players then old,with your changes you propose a person with their first char would have a hard time,what needs to be looked at is all the slotted stuff,mount powers,and maybe the scale of how much ap recovery should give when you deal damage idk,but you know what happens when you touch those formulas x3 It causes chaos.

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greywynd

bvira said:

I miss the old days when it actually took some time and effort to build up AP. Now I can have Hallowed Ground with close to 100% up-time.

Run into some orcs or a horde of redcaps.

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schietindebux

Didn't went through all posts...but
I never experienced Tyrannical Threat to be a "threat" in DOM/PVP
And to get things in line just prevent any passive AP gain (like for hollowed ground) for 15 seconds after a daily , except from active sources like DC sigil and snail, this will be enough nerf