Since "creeping death" now procs on lesser curse and on any power, does the "All-consumming Curse" feature, and the "scornfull curse" feat become interesting?
Does "curse bite" deals dammage on targets affected by lesser curse? if so does "Accursed souls" into "curse bite" becomes a thing?
Does the curse synergy of Dreadtheft an Fiery bolt work on any type of curse or only on warlock curse?
If a target is affected by both WCurse and LCurse will there be a double Creeping death?
Do the first 2 feats of damnation (parting blasphemy and relentless curse) add enoug to the dammage to bother with a chain like WCurse > SS >WCurse > (...)? since it will in a nutshell apply the dots of SS, CD, LCurse and add the parting blasphemy dammage...
Thanks for any adventurous tester that could shine some light on my musings
0
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Since "creeping death" now procs on lesser curse and on any power, does the "All-consumming Curse" feature, and the "scornfull curse" feat become interesting?
Does "curse bite" deals dammage on targets affected by lesser curse? if so does "Accursed souls" into "curse bite" becomes a thing?
Does the curse synergy of Dreadtheft an Fiery bolt work on any type of curse or only on warlock curse?
If a target is affected by both WCurse and LCurse will there be a double Creeping death?
Do the first 2 feats of damnation (parting blasphemy and relentless curse) add enoug to the dammage to bother with a chain like WCurse > SS >WCurse > (...)? since it will in a nutshell apply the dots of SS, CD, LCurse and add the parting blasphemy dammage...
Thanks for any adventurous tester that could shine some light on my musings
1. Yes; 2. Yes, but curse bite is still not a good idea you can use fiery bolt and get better results; 3. No idea; 4. No; 5. I tried with diferent powers, Dread theft, Blades of vanquished armies and harrowstorm, it procs a lot of times and the % of my damage was around 10% with it but as fury this damage came right down to 2% while using TT + SS + bova + KF. so for a temptation warlock instead helltouched or or infernal wrath partying blasphemy is perfectly viable now.
First and foremost Tyranical Threat. An absolute and compulsory necessity for SW to do respectable damage of any sorts in PVE. You've absolutely destroyed it and no amount of buffs to class feats and encounters will compensate for this.
Currently without TT the SW does average damage. Effectively what you've done is put us into this state permanently.
SW SHOULD be able to do respectable damage without this and whilst I sense you were intending to motion towards this state of affairs I have to tell you that you've failed. I mentioned this in the other thread but here it is again:
TT as a curse modifier allowed us to curse more than one mob and move from pack to pack. This is essential because we are so heavily dependant on TT we can simply not afford for it to be failed or wasted on a single one chance mob that will die immediately after we've wasted out daily on it because some other class with far superior dps as standard such as CW or GWF has already 1 shot it.
Currently I micro manage the hell out of my AP. I know exactly when to use TT in CN and when to regen with Sigil Of The Devoted, when to let Dust to Dust refill my AP so that I have TT ready for every possible pack and when I can spread a single TT duration across multiple packs for maximum dps. This not only gave depth to the class and made our damage work well, it made the class fun to play.
In short, you've crippled this class in one fell swoop. Considering you've already nerfed ITF which was one of the main factors in the huge exponential damage increases we got from buffs with multipliers I don't see why you needed to gimp TT at all.
If you expect us to move from dps buff groups to AP buff groups just to cater for the SW's downfall so we can spam TT on every pack then that's unfair. Without TT we simply will not compete. I will endeavour to make videos of dungeon runs with other members of Black Lotus to prove this. I genuinely hope I am proven wrong because the buffs that you've made to encounters and feats thus far couldn't hope to come close to put us on a level playing field.
So yeah, I predict AP regen heavy groups in a new meta, at least this will be the new meta for an SW buff party if it goes live in this state.... Perhaps Damnation is going to make a huge comeback to dominance to carry us through the puppet for some reason, who knows. I'd hate to be railroaded into a cookie cutter spec in PVE in a major update that is supposed to add variety and dynamics to the playability of classes.
My second complaint is that you've removed the curse consume interaction from Dreadtheft. I've no idea what your intentions were with this but the synergy this had with All Consuming Curse, the current mechanics of Dreadtheft and the buff to 50% weapon damage on curse removal from the Damnation tree was a really nice prospect to boost dps in PVP or otherwise. You've ruined that too by removing the curse consumption aspect of DT.
You're stripping away synergies and class depth and making us bland and more useless. You've improved a feat that improves the damage of stripping lesser curses and then in the same breath removed most of our useful curse removal synergies from the game....
On a positive note I do LOVE the changes with Shadow Walk and the fact that you're catering towards our survivability in PVP. The defensive bonuses you've added to encounters like BoTVA are really nice, especially as this is something I like to use a lot vs rogues. The damage increases are obviously welcome but not near enough compensation for our losses in PVE.
Overall this is shaping up to be a great patch for PVP but truly, truly awful for PVE. My only suggestion would be that you do NOT remove the current mechanics of TT being a curse modifier and continue to allow us to perform multiple casts for the duration. It is absolutely essential in our role to function as a damage dealer.
P.S - Absolutely no shame here in admitting I am filling buckets with tears over the changes to TT. Get them whilst they're sweet.
It appears Tyrannical Threat will be DOA. I find this very sad as it was quite possibly the most beautifully designed power in the entire game. Not what it is now but what it was when the Scourge Warlock was first introduced. Please, please let one of your more creative and inspired coders take a look at it with the hope it will return at some point in the future.
I remember the very first time I cast it successfully. Warlocks bargain on the dragon in Rothe Valley, Tryannical Threat and curse on the dragon and 3 mobs and then Dreadtheft. It was a fountain of numbers flowing from the dragon to the mobs, mobs back to the dragon and secondary and tertiary flows of digits back and forth. In total synchrony. It was awesome. Reminded me of the Matrix.
Anyway, hang onto that code, dont let it die. Reintroduce it somehow someway. Whoever did code it needs a raise.
Thanks for your time and effort!
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited July 2016
SW has some relatively strong single target, but the game isn't about taking down a single boss, there are also hordes of enemies.
The SW struggles at this. We lack any real good AoE DPS. That's why people tag a couple mobs among a pack with TT to deal with that. Having to deal with that wonky daily for so long has derailed any honest rework of the class.
Dread Theft is such a weak skill for it's duration a stopping you from using other powers. Blades got deflect and cast while moving, but it's DPS is still laughable to the point a GF and GWF can mow down mobs considerably faster with their at-wills while we have spoons flying around us tickling mobs to death.
Arms of Hadar is so high risk with no reward. Blades is so high risk with no reward. Why get up so close if you aren't rewarded with some high DPS? The devil we made a pact with SUCKS!
Yeah the poster above makes a very good and concise point in his opening line.
I'd like to suggest an alternative change to TT whereby it works as currently stated but limits the number of cursed mobs to one from three whilst active. This would solve the issue of a single target cast nerfing our ability to do damage and could even be further balanced (read nerfed) by removing any damage increase it gives, it's really only the AOE that we're hungry for.
Can I just point out that in conjunction with TT BoTVA is currently a very strong skill for clearing trash and generating sparks even vs single targets rapidly, it's actually up there as one of the best encounters we have. Dreadtheft with TT is also very very good for trash clearing but nothing beats the BotVA/SS spam combo on a TT'ed mob.
Thanks for the SW changes however two major changes are not being addressed first one is lack of proper dodge mechanism for SW class , Lets say the ball phase in Castle Never , There is no proper way to dodge the balls and every SW has to take damage by going through when every class out there can just dodge them with SHIFT ability . Also in pvp there is no way to dodge some attacks from some classes without taking damage. My suggestion to turn the shadow slip to something like CW teleport with some dark aura around , not something like CW but something similar since you already made changes to GF's shift mechanism before i am sure it wouldnt hard for you to give SW a proper dodge mechanism .
second one is MOBILITY. I simply have no idea why you even remove the movement speed from shadowslip . GF's getting their movement speed buffed through some class features and gwf being the top running class . I am sure this removal of movement is not intended please consider this , give back the SW their mobility or atleast give SW a proper way to dodge attacks atleast .
Thanks for the SW changes however two major changes are not being addressed first one is lack of proper dodge mechanism for SW class , Lets say the ball phase in Castle Never , There is no proper way to dodge the balls and every SW has to take damage by going through when every class out there can just dodge them with SHIFT ability . Also in pvp there is no way to dodge some attacks from some classes without taking damage. My suggestion to turn the shadow slip to something like CW teleport with some dark aura around , not something like CW but something similar since you already made changes to GF's shift mechanism before i am sure it wouldnt hard for you to give SW a proper dodge mechanism .
second one is MOBILITY. I simply have no idea why you even remove the movement speed from shadowslip . GF's getting their movement speed buffed through some class features and gwf being the top running class . I am sure this removal of movement is not intended please consider this , give back the SW their mobility or atleast give SW a proper way to dodge attacks atleast .
Thankyou
They did not spend a lot "mental power" in the loss of the warlock in PVP I fear. Taking speed and DT stacks and capping that DR buff the moment DT ends on top...??? If someone asked me: "How would you kill that class in PVP for ever?" I would have answered: "Maybe nerf DT-buff and take away mobility." I am curious if a 10% DR increase from shadow slip, a 25% deflectbuff from BoVA (ending the moment you get cc´d) or some healing power from infernal spheres will help against a 200k+ Bullcharge, lol. We needed a dodge like ability, sadly shadowslip doesn´t help at all against powers like Shocking Execution, once targetted you will feal the impact 100% every time, no way to escape except you pop some artifacts every 60 seconds. Now all you can rely on is facetanking everything in PVP like GWF and GF, because most GF´s are more mobile than you are, catching up in no time. Lifesteal will not help against high burst damage and TR will allwas head towards the warlock, easy to understand.
I see a small light reading about creeping death. The stupid circumstances to make this capstone work was more than redicules and funkilling. Cursing 24/7 and consume these curses right away with almost every power you use to restart your curse mania again. But I am honestly dissappointed reading about Hellbringer and the missing concept about a hole paragon wich is said to be the "damagetree" and will go on moldering in a corner, since it´s no option for PVE and PVP.
Thanks for the SW changes however two major changes are not being addressed first one is lack of proper dodge mechanism for SW class , Lets say the ball phase in Castle Never , There is no proper way to dodge the balls and every SW has to take damage by going through when every class out there can just dodge them with SHIFT ability . Also in pvp there is no way to dodge some attacks from some classes without taking damage. My suggestion to turn the shadow slip to something like CW teleport with some dark aura around , not something like CW but something similar since you already made changes to GF's shift mechanism before i am sure it wouldnt hard for you to give SW a proper dodge mechanism .
second one is MOBILITY. I simply have no idea why you even remove the movement speed from shadowslip . GF's getting their movement speed buffed through some class features and gwf being the top running class . I am sure this removal of movement is not intended please consider this , give back the SW their mobility or atleast give SW a proper way to dodge attacks atleast .
Thankyou
They did not spend a lot "mental power" in the loss of the warlock in PVP I fear. Taking speed and DT stacks and capping that DR buff the moment DT ends on top...??? If someone asked me: "How would you kill that class in PVP for ever?" I would have answered: "Maybe nerf DT-buff and take away mobility." I am curious if a 10% DR increase from shadow slip, a 25% deflectbuff from BoVA (ending the moment you get cc´d) or some healing power from infernal spheres will help against a 200k+ Bullcharge, lol. We needed a dodge like ability, sadly shadowslip doesn´t help at all against powers like Shocking Execution, once targetted you will feal the impact 100% every time, no way to escape except you pop some artifacts every 60 seconds. Now all you can rely on is facetanking everything in PVP like GWF and GF, because most GF´s are more mobile than you are, catching up in no time. Lifesteal will not help against high burst damage and TR will allwas head towards the warlock, easy to understand.
I see a small light reading about creeping death. The stupid circumstances to make this capstone work was more than redicules and funkilling. Cursing 24/7 and consume these curses right away with almost every power you use to restart your curse mania again. But I am honestly dissappointed reading about Hellbringer and the missing concept about a hole paragon wich is said to be the "damagetree" and will go on moldering in a corner, since it´s no option for PVE and PVP.
Shadow Slip is actually 100% increase (or if you want - 30% -> 60%).
There won't be 200k+ Bullcharge - ITF is hard nerfed.
Shocking Execution - yeah, true here, only Hand of Blight, Warding Curse and Wards can lower the damage.
@schietindebux I agree that the proposed mod 10 changes will be an overall *significant* nerf to SWs in PvP, a class already at the bottom of the PvP food chain.
The following is specifically for PvP:
Primary cons: Dreadtheft +%DR reduced and Shadow Slip mobility reduced. There will be even fewer ways to mitigate incoming damage and escape. Its bad enough that Dreadtheft can be interrupted and go on (long) cooldown when facing classes with CC. Now, the encounter may not even be viable in PvP.
Primary pros: Infernal spheres +%DR added along with healing and Blades of Vanquished Armies +%deflect added.
The issues with these pros are: 1) The +%DR from Infernal Spheres will not activate quickly enough to be effective. 2) Infernal Spheres is seldom used as the damage potential is null. Healing potential after healing depression will reduce its effectiveness. 3) Blades of Vanquished Armies will be shredded by CC classes that can interrupt the encounter, prematurely putting it on cooldown. 4) Blades of Vanquished Armies deals negligble damage in PvP, most likely not even enough to overcome your enemy's insignia-based self heals.
Suggestions: 1) Shadow Slip: Instead of temporarily increasing SW Shadow Slip damage resistance, add a dodge-like immunity frame lasting 1 second after Shadow Slip is initially activated. During this 1 second of immunity, stamina drains more quickly. After 1 second, Shadow Slip DR% is 30% or 40%, whichever the devs find most feasible, and stamina drains less quickly than during the initial first second of use. Change Shadow Slip to drain stamina when hovering in place to prevent multiple repeated uses within short time frames or perma CC immunity. Increase overall SW stamina regen speed as the penalty for using Shadow Slip will be too severe after overall movement speed bonus will be reduced. I can only imagine trying to repeatedly avoid the ELoL Scorpions' red AoE after these changes if no immunity frame is provided... Ouch!
2) Dreadtheft: Allow higher +%DR stacks against single targets, but reduce the overall +%DR from 60% (or 80%, whichever it was) to 30%. Alternatively, if a higher single target +%DR is not accepted, SWs will need to be CC immune during Dreadtheft casting or the encounter will most likely head to the shelf in PvP--Dreadtheft's cooldown is too long, the damage is minimal, it can be interrupted by CC, and the change to single target +%DR benefit has damaged this encounter significantly.
Thanks for the SW changes however two major changes are not being addressed first one is lack of proper dodge mechanism for SW class , Lets say the ball phase in Castle Never , There is no proper way to dodge the balls and every SW has to take damage by going through when every class out there can just dodge them with SHIFT ability . Also in pvp there is no way to dodge some attacks from some classes without taking damage. My suggestion to turn the shadow slip to something like CW teleport with some dark aura around , not something like CW but something similar since you already made changes to GF's shift mechanism before i am sure it wouldnt hard for you to give SW a proper dodge mechanism .
second one is MOBILITY. I simply have no idea why you even remove the movement speed from shadowslip . GF's getting their movement speed buffed through some class features and gwf being the top running class . I am sure this removal of movement is not intended please consider this , give back the SW their mobility or atleast give SW a proper way to dodge attacks atleast .
Thankyou
They did not spend a lot "mental power" in the loss of the warlock in PVP I fear. Taking speed and DT stacks and capping that DR buff the moment DT ends on top...??? If someone asked me: "How would you kill that class in PVP for ever?" I would have answered: "Maybe nerf DT-buff and take away mobility." I am curious if a 10% DR increase from shadow slip, a 25% deflectbuff from BoVA (ending the moment you get cc´d) or some healing power from infernal spheres will help against a 200k+ Bullcharge, lol. We needed a dodge like ability, sadly shadowslip doesn´t help at all against powers like Shocking Execution, once targetted you will feal the impact 100% every time, no way to escape except you pop some artifacts every 60 seconds. Now all you can rely on is facetanking everything in PVP like GWF and GF, because most GF´s are more mobile than you are, catching up in no time. Lifesteal will not help against high burst damage and TR will allwas head towards the warlock, easy to understand.
I see a small light reading about creeping death. The stupid circumstances to make this capstone work was more than redicules and funkilling. Cursing 24/7 and consume these curses right away with almost every power you use to restart your curse mania again. But I am honestly dissappointed reading about Hellbringer and the missing concept about a hole paragon wich is said to be the "damagetree" and will go on moldering in a corner, since it´s no option for PVE and PVP.
Shadow Slip is actually 100% increase (or if you want - 30% -> 60%).
There won't be 200k+ Bullcharge - ITF is hard nerfed.
Shocking Execution - yeah, true here, only Hand of Blight, Warding Curse and Wards can lower the damage.
the ITF nerf in PvP is average of 30% less damage, but their damage gets doubled by KC , which you will see the 200k bullcharge , even if u sprint out of it to not get proned.
I never saw 200k bullcharge on myself unless there was GF+DC with AS. Max I saw 1v1 was ~90k.
@schietindebux I agree that the proposed mod 10 changes will be an overall *significant* nerf to SWs in PvP, a class already at the bottom of the PvP food chain.
The following is specifically for PvP:
Primary cons: Dreadtheft +%DR reduced and Shadow Slip mobility reduced. There will be even fewer ways to mitigate incoming damage and escape. Its bad enough that Dreadtheft can be interrupted and go on (long) cooldown when facing classes with CC. Now, the encounter may not even be viable in PvP.
Primary pros: Infernal spheres +%DR added along with healing and Blades of Vanquished Armies +%deflect added.
The issues with these pros are:
1) The +%DR from Infernal Spheres will not activate quickly enough to be effective.
2) Infernal Spheres is seldom used as the damage potential is null. Healing potential after healing depression will reduce its effectiveness.
3) Blades of Vanquished Armies will be shredded by CC classes that can interrupt the encounter, prematurely putting it on cooldown.
4) Blades of Vanquished Armies deals negligble damage in PvP, most likely not even enough to overcome your enemy's insignia-based self heals.
Suggestions:
1) Shadow Slip: Instead of temporarily increasing SW Shadow Slip damage resistance, add a dodge-like immunity frame lasting 1 second after Shadow Slip is initially activated. During this 1 second of immunity, stamina drains more quickly. After 1 second, Shadow Slip DR% is 30% or 40%, whichever the devs find most feasible, and stamina drains less quickly than during the initial first second of use. Change Shadow Slip to drain stamina when hovering in place to prevent multiple repeated uses within short time frames or perma CC immunity. Increase overall SW stamina regen speed as the penalty for using Shadow Slip will be too severe after overall movement speed bonus will be reduced. I can only imagine trying to repeatedly avoid the ELoL Scorpions' red AoE after these changes if no immunity frame is provided... Ouch!
2) Dreadtheft: Allow higher +%DR stacks against single targets, but reduce the overall +%DR from 60% (or 80%, whichever it was) to 30%. Alternatively, if a higher single target +%DR is not accepted, SWs will need to be CC immune during Dreadtheft casting or the encounter will most likely head to the shelf in PvP--Dreadtheft's cooldown is too long, the damage is minimal, it can be interrupted by CC, and the change to single target +%DR benefit has damaged this encounter significantly.
I also never used Shadow Walk but I get it most of SW did use it. Dreadtheft -%DR will be covered from SS +%DR. It will actually open a way to use other encounters even facetanking GF or GWF. Especially BoVA will be nice now, but losing effects being controlled will be serious con here.
>Dreadtheft, affected Cursed targets take increased damage from all sources, and you gain damage resistance based on the number of Cursed targets hit. Both of these effects stop occuring when you stop maintaining Dreadtheft. >Dreadtheft: Updated the rank up information to properly state that it increases the Damage Resistance Debuff by 5% per rank, not 3% as previously stated.
So which is it.... Cursed targets "take increased damage" or applies a "damage resistance debuff"?
Also curious about the damage from TT/TC... posted it is currently 40%, reduced to 20% as stated. I thought TT was currently 15% base with 5% increase with each rank. So it should be 30% currently? If it was 40%, i agree it should be lowered, but to 30%, not 20%... I thought WC was a 20% buff, so if you take out aoe damage from TT, what benefit will TT have over WC if they dont stack?
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited July 2016
Well remember temptation can always resource to gladiator's guille wich will be up a lot of times, aditionally howling set is also a option for all trees, with a aditional healing insignia very decent(10% hp healed when 35%+ of life taken in 1 hit) this may be a way to go, remember Froggy Krueguer SW fury with howling set and amazing heal(can't remember forum name, sorry if you read this). My experience of these 2 in preview is that it still allows the SW to shadowslip from 1 to the other base in seconds. But i do agree with 1 second imunity, but mostly because of Shocking execution, i dont think expending more stamina over 1 second imunity is a good idea in many other situations.
Also curious about the damage from TT/TC... posted it is currently 40%, reduced to 20% as stated. I thought TT was currently 15% base with 5% increase with each rank. So it should be 30% currently? If it was 40%, i agree it should be lowered, but to 30%, not 20%... I thought WC was a 20% buff, so if you take out aoe damage from TT, what benefit will TT have over WC if they dont stack?
On live, when you cast TT your WC is removed (and it was 40% or even more damage buff from TT alone). On preview via patch notes, your WC and TC are both on target and only one buff is on.
Not sure about Brutal Curse feat, if it apply to TC or not. Haven't been yet on preview, will test all that stuff tomorrow.
I understand it is currently broken and giving a 40%+ buff, but currently on live, doesn't it say its a 15% increase in damage, increasing 5% with each rank? Making the total 30%, but the way I read it here, they are saying it should be 20%... unless they are nerfing the damage as well instead of just fixing it to what it should be? So if its gonna be 20% damage for TC and WC already gives us 20%, why would we even bother using TC, since it no longer does aoe damage? to confusing, lol...
Also curious about the damage from TT/TC... posted it is currently 40%, reduced to 20% as stated. I thought TT was currently 15% base with 5% increase with each rank. So it should be 30% currently? If it was 40%, i agree it should be lowered, but to 30%, not 20%... I thought WC was a 20% buff, so if you take out aoe damage from TT, what benefit will TT have over WC if they dont stack?
On live, when you cast TT your WC is removed (and it was 40% or even more damage buff from TT alone). On preview via patch notes, your WC and TC are both on target and only one buff is on.
Not sure about Brutal Curse feat, if it apply to TC or not. Haven't been yet on preview, will test all that stuff tomorrow.
@fernuu I am fairly sure when you and I tested it, TT was 76.5%.
Also curious about the damage from TT/TC... posted it is currently 40%, reduced to 20% as stated. I thought TT was currently 15% base with 5% increase with each rank. So it should be 30% currently? If it was 40%, i agree it should be lowered, but to 30%, not 20%... I thought WC was a 20% buff, so if you take out aoe damage from TT, what benefit will TT have over WC if they dont stack?
On live, when you cast TT your WC is removed (and it was 40% or even more damage buff from TT alone). On preview via patch notes, your WC and TC are both on target and only one buff is on.
Not sure about Brutal Curse feat, if it apply to TC or not. Haven't been yet on preview, will test all that stuff tomorrow.
@fernuu I am fairly sure when you and I tested it, TT was 76.5%.
Last time i tested TT was 0% damage boost, but a very nice redirected damage.
2 things are missing for warlocks. 1: need alot more armor penetration to be viable for pvp 2: need alot more critical chance to be usable on both pvp/pve The rest is just useless was it was before and will remain as it is.
While the powers that be are tweaking the spells, can they please make a review of all thes descriptions from spells and feats and clarify everithing that is vague?
It would be great, if in a spell description it explains that the spell ranks up some of its characteristics increase, to have the starting value at rank 1.
It would be equally awsome to differentiate additive bonuses and multiplicative bonuses with the wording of the description. for example for additive: "an additional X to so-and-so" and for multiplicative bonuses "this get Y more effective"
And lastly, the dammage in the tooltip should always be the total damage for 0% DR on a single target, not sometime the total dammage, sometime one tick and sometime we don't know what. I know I ask for much but it is quite frustrating to think you make a correct choice when in fact you just squander feat and power points.
From someone who doesn't know a thing about the complexity of the task, it seems it would be a not so difficult task
0
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
2 things are missing for warlocks. 1: need alot more armor penetration to be viable for pvp 2: need alot more critical chance to be usable on both pvp/pve The rest is just useless was it was before and will remain as it is.
No, pve just no, i had the chance to try 2 trees so far on preview and aoe's are actually good for groups, not all that TT spam for the 3 trees, damage is still great, fury hellbringer had a very nice performance, all the dungeon i had focus in damage spread from single target, wich is really nice for lazy people that dont want to switch powers for bosses ^^.
Temptation hellbringer had a very nice performance as well, the additional life steal made my healing noticeably better.
But i also tried over and over again HB vs SB in dummies and all tell me that SB still takes over HB since C.A. can almost be considered something granted, you have even a few companions for it. Also i understand that temptation is a suport dps and has now more reliable protective powers, improved hand of blight, wraith of shadow is actually worth but most parties will want and demand dps boost, so even a little bit boost, mainly in single target, because multi target DT can now represent a good party boost, would be much appreciated, but devs wont listen
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited July 2016
Feedback:
With the soul puppet changes. Though I don't know if they're buggy and OP in parties still, but I feel like they should be able to crit now. For solo they're dealing like 40% less damage now. 5k per hit now for me.
Also curious about the damage from TT/TC... posted it is currently 40%, reduced to 20% as stated. I thought TT was currently 15% base with 5% increase with each rank. So it should be 30% currently? If it was 40%, i agree it should be lowered, but to 30%, not 20%... I thought WC was a 20% buff, so if you take out aoe damage from TT, what benefit will TT have over WC if they dont stack?
On live, when you cast TT your WC is removed (and it was 40% or even more damage buff from TT alone). On preview via patch notes, your WC and TC are both on target and only one buff is on.
Not sure about Brutal Curse feat, if it apply to TC or not. Haven't been yet on preview, will test all that stuff tomorrow.
@fernuu I am fairly sure when you and I tested it, TT was 76.5%.
Yeah, it's something between 58% up to 76.4% - would have to investigate further rest of solobuffs but it's definitely more than 20/40.
While the powers that be are tweaking the spells, can they please make a review of all thes descriptions from spells and feats and clarify everithing that is vague?
It would be great, if in a spell description it explains that the spell ranks up some of its characteristics increase, to have the starting value at rank 1.
It would be equally awsome to differentiate additive bonuses and multiplicative bonuses with the wording of the description. for example for additive: "an additional X to so-and-so" and for multiplicative bonuses "this get Y more effective"
And lastly, the dammage in the tooltip should always be the total damage for 0% DR on a single target, not sometime the total dammage, sometime one tick and sometime we don't know what. I know I ask for much but it is quite frustrating to think you make a correct choice when in fact you just squander feat and power points.
From someone who doesn't know a thing about the complexity of the task, it seems it would be a not so difficult task
Agreed, they could easily separate between additive and multiplicative by using the word more for multiplicative bonuses and increased for additive bonuses.
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited July 2016
Hum.....i dont know, ran a bit of testing on preview SB vs HB single target my always "treasure build" for fury path and:
More or less the same fight time, HB is lower dps, clearly, specially because SB add only C.A. when blink dog decided to, but i did a big part of the time nerf oponent damage and dr with npnm off hand vs dtd off hand, i was using Wraith of shadow instead killing flames but not that it matters, it was a dummie i was hitting. Just the fact that HB is already this good it's a good time to think about going for it.
Ps. I completly forgot to use Helish rebulke, that would make damage go around 16kk and SB damage could be further increased with vanguard banner, wheel of the elements, symbol of watter etc since DC's sigil only purpose was those 2% of brood of hadar and on HB test i could stop the WoS dot and spawn a soul puppet wich would deal minimally better damage.
Overall things seem going pretty good, i think HB still needs some rework, i would still never go for pillar of power buff instead of wrathfull curse, what do you think? is the damage redution justified by the debuff on enemy damage? Maybe vorpal on HB?
@treesclimber thanks for the analysis. That's why I mentioned in previous posts that the devs *could* make Hellbringer much better by significantly padding Pillar of Power, both the encounter and feat. Given the zero cooldown nature of Soul Scorch, Pillar of Power would need to offer a non-combustable circle granting increased damage and recharge speed bonus (where the party may benefit as well) at the cost of mobility. I'm trying not to introduce bias as I main a SW, but this seems pretty straight forward and a fair balance to me.
Of course Hellbringer's class features would need a damage focused pat on the back as well. Dust to Dust is just too good of a class feature in dungeons compared to anything Hellbringer has to offer.
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@amenar: thumbs up for giving feedback and looking into stuff!! really great!!
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Comments
Since "creeping death" now procs on lesser curse and on any power, does the "All-consumming Curse" feature, and the "scornfull curse" feat become interesting?
Does "curse bite" deals dammage on targets affected by lesser curse? if so does "Accursed souls" into "curse bite" becomes a thing?
Does the curse synergy of Dreadtheft an Fiery bolt work on any type of curse or only on warlock curse?
If a target is affected by both WCurse and LCurse will there be a double Creeping death?
Do the first 2 feats of damnation (parting blasphemy and relentless curse) add enoug to the dammage to bother with a chain like WCurse > SS >WCurse > (...)? since it will in a nutshell apply the dots of SS, CD, LCurse and add the parting blasphemy dammage...
Thanks for any adventurous tester that could shine some light on my musings
2. Yes, but curse bite is still not a good idea you can use fiery bolt and get better results;
3. No idea;
4. No;
5. I tried with diferent powers, Dread theft, Blades of vanquished armies and harrowstorm, it procs a lot of times and the % of my damage was around 10% with it but as fury this damage came right down to 2% while using TT + SS + bova + KF. so for a temptation warlock instead helltouched or or infernal wrath partying blasphemy is perfectly viable now.
Currently without TT the SW does average damage. Effectively what you've done is put us into this state permanently.
SW SHOULD be able to do respectable damage without this and whilst I sense you were intending to motion towards this state of affairs I have to tell you that you've failed. I mentioned this in the other thread but here it is again:
TT as a curse modifier allowed us to curse more than one mob and move from pack to pack.
This is essential because we are so heavily dependant on TT we can simply not afford for it to be failed or wasted on a single one chance mob that will die immediately after we've wasted out daily on it because some other class with far superior dps as standard such as CW or GWF has already 1 shot it.
Currently I micro manage the hell out of my AP. I know exactly when to use TT in CN and when to regen with Sigil Of The Devoted, when to let Dust to Dust refill my AP so that I have TT ready for every possible pack and when I can spread a single TT duration across multiple packs for maximum dps. This not only gave depth to the class and made our damage work well, it made the class fun to play.
In short, you've crippled this class in one fell swoop. Considering you've already nerfed ITF which was one of the main factors in the huge exponential damage increases we got from buffs with multipliers I don't see why you needed to gimp TT at all.
If you expect us to move from dps buff groups to AP buff groups just to cater for the SW's downfall so we can spam TT on every pack then that's unfair. Without TT we simply will not compete. I will endeavour to make videos of dungeon runs with other members of Black Lotus to prove this. I genuinely hope I am proven wrong because the buffs that you've made to encounters and feats thus far couldn't hope to come close to put us on a level playing field.
So yeah, I predict AP regen heavy groups in a new meta, at least this will be the new meta for an SW buff party if it goes live in this state.... Perhaps Damnation is going to make a huge comeback to dominance to carry us through the puppet for some reason, who knows. I'd hate to be railroaded into a cookie cutter spec in PVE in a major update that is supposed to add variety and dynamics to the playability of classes.
My second complaint is that you've removed the curse consume interaction from Dreadtheft. I've no idea what your intentions were with this but the synergy this had with All Consuming Curse, the current mechanics of Dreadtheft and the buff to 50% weapon damage on curse removal from the Damnation tree was a really nice prospect to boost dps in PVP or otherwise. You've ruined that too by removing the curse consumption aspect of DT.
You're stripping away synergies and class depth and making us bland and more useless. You've improved a feat that improves the damage of stripping lesser curses and then in the same breath removed most of our useful curse removal synergies from the game....
On a positive note I do LOVE the changes with Shadow Walk and the fact that you're catering towards our survivability in PVP. The defensive bonuses you've added to encounters like BoTVA are really nice, especially as this is something I like to use a lot vs rogues. The damage increases are obviously welcome but not near enough compensation for our losses in PVE.
Overall this is shaping up to be a great patch for PVP but truly, truly awful for PVE. My only suggestion would be that you do NOT remove the current mechanics of TT being a curse modifier and continue to allow us to perform multiple casts for the duration. It is absolutely essential in our role to function as a damage dealer.
P.S - Absolutely no shame here in admitting I am filling buckets with tears over the changes to TT. Get them whilst they're sweet.
4k Scourge Warlock
It appears Tyrannical Threat will be DOA. I find this very sad as it was quite possibly the most beautifully designed power in the entire game. Not what it is now but what it was when the Scourge Warlock was first introduced. Please, please let one of your more creative and inspired coders take a look at it with the hope it will return at some point in the future.
I remember the very first time I cast it successfully. Warlocks bargain on the dragon in Rothe Valley, Tryannical Threat and curse on the dragon and 3 mobs and then Dreadtheft. It was a fountain of numbers flowing from the dragon to the mobs, mobs back to the dragon and secondary and tertiary flows of digits back and forth. In total synchrony. It was awesome. Reminded me of the Matrix.
Anyway, hang onto that code, dont let it die. Reintroduce it somehow someway. Whoever did code it needs a raise.
Thanks for your time and effort!
The SW struggles at this. We lack any real good AoE DPS. That's why people tag a couple mobs among a pack with TT to deal with that. Having to deal with that wonky daily for so long has derailed any honest rework of the class.
Dread Theft is such a weak skill for it's duration a stopping you from using other powers. Blades got deflect and cast while moving, but it's DPS is still laughable to the point a GF and GWF can mow down mobs considerably faster with their at-wills while we have spoons flying around us tickling mobs to death.
Arms of Hadar is so high risk with no reward. Blades is so high risk with no reward. Why get up so close if you aren't rewarded with some high DPS? The devil we made a pact with SUCKS!
I'd like to suggest an alternative change to TT whereby it works as currently stated but limits the number of cursed mobs to one from three whilst active. This would solve the issue of a single target cast nerfing our ability to do damage and could even be further balanced (read nerfed) by removing any damage increase it gives, it's really only the AOE that we're hungry for.
Can I just point out that in conjunction with TT BoTVA is currently a very strong skill for clearing trash and generating sparks even vs single targets rapidly, it's actually up there as one of the best encounters we have. Dreadtheft with TT is also very very good for trash clearing but nothing beats the BotVA/SS spam combo on a TT'ed mob.
4k Scourge Warlock
Thanks for the SW changes however two major changes are not being addressed
first one is lack of proper dodge mechanism for SW class , Lets say the ball phase in Castle Never , There is no proper way to dodge the balls and every SW has to take damage by going through when every class out there can just dodge them with SHIFT ability . Also in pvp there is no way to dodge some attacks from some classes without taking damage. My suggestion to turn the shadow slip to something like CW teleport with some dark aura around , not something like CW but something similar since you already made changes to GF's shift mechanism before i am sure it wouldnt hard for you to give SW a proper dodge mechanism .
second one is MOBILITY. I simply have no idea why you even remove the movement speed from shadowslip . GF's getting their movement speed buffed through some class features and gwf being the top running class . I am sure this removal of movement is not intended please consider this , give back the SW their mobility or atleast give SW a proper way to dodge attacks atleast .
Thankyou
Taking speed and DT stacks and capping that DR buff the moment DT ends on top...???
If someone asked me: "How would you kill that class in PVP for ever?"
I would have answered: "Maybe nerf DT-buff and take away mobility."
I am curious if a 10% DR increase from shadow slip, a 25% deflectbuff from BoVA (ending the moment you get cc´d) or some healing power from infernal spheres will help against a 200k+ Bullcharge, lol.
We needed a dodge like ability, sadly shadowslip doesn´t help at all against powers like Shocking Execution, once targetted you will feal the impact 100% every time, no way to escape except you pop some artifacts every 60 seconds.
Now all you can rely on is facetanking everything in PVP like GWF and GF, because most GF´s are more mobile than you are, catching up in no time.
Lifesteal will not help against high burst damage and TR will allwas head towards the warlock, easy to understand.
I see a small light reading about creeping death.
The stupid circumstances to make this capstone work was more than redicules and funkilling.
Cursing 24/7 and consume these curses right away with almost every power you use to restart your curse mania again.
But I am honestly dissappointed reading about Hellbringer and the missing concept about a hole paragon wich is said to be the "damagetree" and will go on moldering in a corner, since it´s no option for PVE and PVP.
There won't be 200k+ Bullcharge - ITF is hard nerfed.
Shocking Execution - yeah, true here, only Hand of Blight, Warding Curse and Wards can lower the damage.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
And it was with "only" 376.2% effectiveness, where max I saw was 1200%
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
The following is specifically for PvP:
Primary cons: Dreadtheft +%DR reduced and Shadow Slip mobility reduced. There will be even fewer ways to mitigate incoming damage and escape. Its bad enough that Dreadtheft can be interrupted and go on (long) cooldown when facing classes with CC. Now, the encounter may not even be viable in PvP.
Primary pros: Infernal spheres +%DR added along with healing and Blades of Vanquished Armies +%deflect added.
The issues with these pros are:
1) The +%DR from Infernal Spheres will not activate quickly enough to be effective.
2) Infernal Spheres is seldom used as the damage potential is null. Healing potential after healing depression will reduce its effectiveness.
3) Blades of Vanquished Armies will be shredded by CC classes that can interrupt the encounter, prematurely putting it on cooldown.
4) Blades of Vanquished Armies deals negligble damage in PvP, most likely not even enough to overcome your enemy's insignia-based self heals.
Suggestions:
1) Shadow Slip: Instead of temporarily increasing SW Shadow Slip damage resistance, add a dodge-like immunity frame lasting 1 second after Shadow Slip is initially activated. During this 1 second of immunity, stamina drains more quickly. After 1 second, Shadow Slip DR% is 30% or 40%, whichever the devs find most feasible, and stamina drains less quickly than during the initial first second of use. Change Shadow Slip to drain stamina when hovering in place to prevent multiple repeated uses within short time frames or perma CC immunity. Increase overall SW stamina regen speed as the penalty for using Shadow Slip will be too severe after overall movement speed bonus will be reduced. I can only imagine trying to repeatedly avoid the ELoL Scorpions' red AoE after these changes if no immunity frame is provided... Ouch!
2) Dreadtheft: Allow higher +%DR stacks against single targets, but reduce the overall +%DR from 60% (or 80%, whichever it was) to 30%. Alternatively, if a higher single target +%DR is not accepted, SWs will need to be CC immune during Dreadtheft casting or the encounter will most likely head to the shelf in PvP--Dreadtheft's cooldown is too long, the damage is minimal, it can be interrupted by CC, and the change to single target +%DR benefit has damaged this encounter significantly.
I will test all that stuff tomorrow.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
>Dreadtheft: Updated the rank up information to properly state that it increases the Damage Resistance Debuff by 5% per rank, not 3% as previously stated.
So which is it.... Cursed targets "take increased damage" or applies a "damage resistance debuff"?
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
On preview via patch notes, your WC and TC are both on target and only one buff is on.
Not sure about Brutal Curse feat, if it apply to TC or not. Haven't been yet on preview, will test all that stuff tomorrow.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
1: need alot more armor penetration to be viable for pvp
2: need alot more critical chance to be usable on both pvp/pve
The rest is just useless was it was before and will remain as it is.
It would be great, if in a spell description it explains that the spell ranks up some of its characteristics increase, to have the starting value at rank 1.
It would be equally awsome to differentiate additive bonuses and multiplicative bonuses with the wording of the description. for example for additive: "an additional X to so-and-so" and for multiplicative bonuses "this get Y more effective"
And lastly, the dammage in the tooltip should always be the total damage for 0% DR on a single target, not sometime the total dammage, sometime one tick and sometime we don't know what. I know I ask for much but it is quite frustrating to think you make a correct choice when in fact you just squander feat and power points.
From someone who doesn't know a thing about the complexity of the task, it seems it would be a not so difficult task
No, pve just no, i had the chance to try 2 trees so far on preview and aoe's are actually good for groups, not all that TT spam for the 3 trees, damage is still great, fury hellbringer had a very nice performance, all the dungeon i had focus in damage spread from single target, wich is really nice for lazy people that dont want to switch powers for bosses ^^.
Temptation hellbringer had a very nice performance as well, the additional life steal made my healing noticeably better.
But i also tried over and over again HB vs SB in dummies and all tell me that SB still takes over HB since C.A. can almost be considered something granted, you have even a few companions for it. Also i understand that temptation is a suport dps and has now more reliable protective powers, improved hand of blight, wraith of shadow is actually worth but most parties will want and demand dps boost, so even a little bit boost, mainly in single target, because multi target DT can now represent a good party boost, would be much appreciated, but devs wont listen
With the soul puppet changes. Though I don't know if they're buggy and OP in parties still, but I feel like they should be able to crit now. For solo they're dealing like 40% less damage now. 5k per hit now for me.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
More or less the same fight time, HB is lower dps, clearly, specially because SB add only C.A. when blink dog decided to, but i did a big part of the time nerf oponent damage and dr with npnm off hand vs dtd off hand, i was using Wraith of shadow instead killing flames but not that it matters, it was a dummie i was hitting. Just the fact that HB is already this good it's a good time to think about going for it.
Ps. I completly forgot to use Helish rebulke, that would make damage go around 16kk and SB damage could be further increased with vanguard banner, wheel of the elements, symbol of watter etc since DC's sigil only purpose was those 2% of brood of hadar and on HB test i could stop the WoS dot and spawn a soul puppet wich would deal minimally better damage.
Overall things seem going pretty good, i think HB still needs some rework, i would still never go for pillar of power buff instead of wrathfull curse, what do you think? is the damage redution justified by the debuff on enemy damage?
Maybe vorpal on HB?
Of course Hellbringer's class features would need a damage focused pat on the back as well. Dust to Dust is just too good of a class feature in dungeons compared to anything Hellbringer has to offer.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80