I'd like to join the chorus and agree that this change was necessary. Anyone who thought that HP wasn't being used heavily in FBI was kidding himself. The set is that good (I personally only have 3 of the four pieces, but I'm a packrat).
I think the only thing that's bothering me is that many old skins are still unobtainable (and most especially, the "Dungeon Dye Pack" colors they came with). My CW wears elemental Drowcraft, but two of the pieces are transmuted Arcane Overseer items. The "red" in those items is really NOT red; it has a slight blue component to it.
Perhaps better examples would be the Lolth gear, Hrimnir's helm, Stormcaller Tunic, and the two flavors of Greywolf Breastplate. These all had not only unique skins, but unique colors.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited October 2016
Here is an image of FBI without any mod 5 sets, to compare to that time presented. We did not have any lucky CS hits though. You can compare this to that 16:37 time and get some idea of the difference the sets make, there is a video of this run, which I can upload if need be.
However, in 1 of our normal runs (since we normally do run with the sets) the stars did align with CS and got all near perfect hits, this was the result:
Take note, this was not due to mod 5 sets, (and not due to fabled, natsu does not own it) this was due to getting lucky on rolling the dice with commander's strike.
Anyways, you're complaining that you'll need to change your pldaystyle and gear to adjust stats to match new gear, yes? Kinda like everyone else does each and every time new gear comes out?
Not feeling your pain... As the kids say - L2P.
not really i don't, also since you seem to understand the answers given to you very well there is honestly no reason to answer you at all, sorry
Here is an image of FBI without any mod 5 sets, to compare to that time presented. We did not have any lucky CS hits though. You can compare this to that 16:37 time and get some idea of the difference the sets make, there is a video of this run, which I can upload if need be.
However, in 1 of our normal runs (since we normally do run with the sets) the stars did align with CS and got all near perfect hits, this was the result:
Take note, this was not due to mod 5 sets, (and not due to fabled, natsu does not own it) this was due to getting lucky on rolling the dice with commander's strike.
There we can see Hadar's grasp bugging the boss.It is pretty certain SW bugged any giant that could aswell.We just didn't see it.Since FOV of the recorder is 55.
The guy ,the cw that tellsus he can do with out old sets was there. That is the way you do it?By bugging control immune NPCs ,exploiting Hadar's Grasp?
I have no problem with the other party members they did not came to forums to boast themselves but someone that shouts loudly about speed runs and came here.
----------------------------------
In and to conclusion:
Pics of groups doing speedruns of |FBI when SW is present,are out of the question,and account to nothing and prove nothing.They cannot used as counter measure to the argument that old sets play minor role in speedruns. cause here we see another factor that trivialized the content pre patch,SW and pierce cc immunities.
I'm not implying anything about mod 5 sets, these are mod 0 and mod 2 sets. They aren't "nerfing" these sets, they are removing them. As has been pointed out in other threads, these sets are not as OP as people think they are but that is besides the point. I have a problem with them once again removing content from the game.
Woo lets harp on semantics instead of addressing the point.
The sets are still going to be in game. They're just removing the set bonus. Now they're in-line with lvl 60 armor like they should be.
I am addressing the point. Once again they are removing something from the game instead of focusing on adding things to the game and making it more enjoyable for the players. I have a big problem with that. Say what you will about the state of the game prior to mod6 (yes it had it's issues), but it was a lot more rewarding back then. The folks in charge now only know how to destroy things.
I used HV until M4 when I banked it and used Purified BI, then Elemental Burning in M6 until now where I replaced it with Prestige for M10. Replacing gear every mod is impractical, and the "upgrade" from mod to mod isn't usually very useful. However, changing gear over ever few mods does seem reasonable to me.
I get why some would be upset on principle. This is a net reduction to the game, but it's a necessary one. Those peices were supposed to be obsolete in M6, and they were until people fully adapted and now with power creep through the roof again, those obsolete peices don't mean you're gonna die in 5 secs anymore like they were supposed too. These peices were SUPPOSED to have been useless. The intention of M6 was to make those peices go away.
It didn't happen. So, this is really just a natural extension of what was supposed to have happened back then. I don't really see a problem with it.
I also realize this old gear wasn't near as powerful or game-breaking as people think. Again, doesn't matter. The intention of M6 was to eliminate these sets, so since it failed to do so, M10.5 (M11? Not sure what the right designation is) will sort that out for good.
Here is an image of FBI without any mod 5 sets, to compare to that time presented. We did not have any lucky CS hits though. You can compare this to that 16:37 time and get some idea of the difference the sets make, there is a video of this run, which I can upload if need be.
However, in 1 of our normal runs (since we normally do run with the sets) the stars did align with CS and got all near perfect hits, this was the result:
Take note, this was not due to mod 5 sets, (and not due to fabled, natsu does not own it) this was due to getting lucky on rolling the dice with commander's strike.
effectiveness on sw is not a secret numbers like 555% + i have seen and 800% after mod 10 talking about. They never fixed those issues. same gf can do high commander strikes with other class? without sw you can do 14m ? If my gf has only 12k power can i do high commander stirke? because i cannot on my gf even if you bring me the same sw.
I'm not implying anything about mod 5 sets, these are mod 0 and mod 2 sets. They aren't "nerfing" these sets, they are removing them. As has been pointed out in other threads, these sets are not as OP as people think they are but that is besides the point. I have a problem with them once again removing content from the game.
Woo lets harp on semantics instead of addressing the point.
The sets are still going to be in game. They're just removing the set bonus. Now they're in-line with lvl 60 armor like they should be.
I am addressing the point. Once again they are removing something from the game instead of focusing on adding things to the game and making it more enjoyable for the players. I have a big problem with that. Say what you will about the state of the game prior to mod6 (yes it had it's issues), but it was a lot more rewarding back then. The folks in charge now only know how to destroy things.
No, you aren't. The post I quoted was implying that the way this armor has been nerfed puts all other items in jeopardy of being nerfed without notice or compensation. I replied that the way they have been handled is different from any item in the game and their being nerfed sets no precedent.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
If these sets are so powerful and game breaking exchange them with the appropriate Relic Armor set.
Just taking (or destroying) is not the right way to go.
And why are these items still trade-able anyway after this statement from asterdahl? In the past Cryptic demonstrated that they can disable items on the AH without much effort in the running system. What is keeping you do do this here and now? Not enough people scammed?
Were you here for Mod 6? When all our gear was trashed?? This is just a continuance of the same. You got an extra 2 years out of it.
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
Yes, I do laff @ ppl that spend more money than most ppl make in a year on a car. I also laff @ ppl that spend more AD than most players can earn inn a year on OP gearz. I laff 2x as hard when that gearz is nerfed. WE have ALL had something we grinded for nerfed into uselessness. Just because fixing something game-breaking will make some ppl upset... that does not mean you don't fix the game.
@tearsoffear Honestly, unless you were rocking BiS everything else, spending that AD on collecting HV was bad advice to begin with.
As @thefabricant Has already pointed out numerous times, the actual benefit of that set was relatively tiny compared to just using a level 70 set you could've grinded out for free.
But that's the nature of the MMO beast. Expect change. That's the only constant.
I don't read the forums on a daily basis. I expect change every day. I think can live with the destruction of the HV set, like with the Stalwart Bulwark destruction back then. BUT I don't expect Cryptic to give the participants of the preview forum a head start to GERBIL other players over. (and then gloat in NW_Legit how people with less knowlegde are GERBILED ) Like when the keys became bound, all players were on the same page. Not here. GERBIL.
If these sets are so overpowered why don't we hear about them being used in PVP???
The main problem in my book is how we are being informed, and how its being handled. People are already saying "Well at least you got to use the old sets for so long and that should be enough", but I just don't see it that way. Ok, fine they need to go for "balancing" issues but as you can see above FBI was done in about the same time without using the old sets.....
So what the point, the people that are doing these runs will always have the best times. You want to know why.... it's because they know what they are doing, have worked together for some amount of time, and are coordinated. For their efforts we get to have something nerfed to try and bring it back in "align" with what the game makers consider a standard. These guys will always be better than the standard because of there understanding of the mechanics and there game play. If the game makers are basing the standard off them we are in trouble because most can not compete with that level of game play....
I understand there are issues out there but what is the cause of these issues (power creep maybe)?? Are we being told that we all are going to have to be epic game players like these guys to enjoy Neverwinter??
I'm having a hard time swallowing this pill not just because set bonuses are going away...There is no way to optimize your character and your style of game play. It seems we are all being funneled in one direction and can only have one effective play style just so the game can be "balanced". Why even give us options then?? Why not just have one tree for each class??? Wouldn't it be easier to balance the game then?
In neverwinter 1.0 (mod 1 thru 5) you didn't need to be (for instance) a CW running Thurg with the HV set and still be effective. I know cause i was and CW OP running with shadow weaver's and having a great time. Now, if i run CW OP I am literally shooting myself in the foot because there is very little need for CC (maybe PvP, but i dont PvP) and there is so much CC immune stuff running around that it not good option. What about armor selection? Whelp you got to look at power, crit, and.... well there you go. So you should only be wearing the gear that maximizes your power and crit because the rest is just a waste of time, ohh and don't dip to much into the OP tree (just CW perspective I know there are others out there with similar perspectives for there favorite class)...
Come on, the game was better in Mod 1 thru 5 because there were options to make your character unique and still enjoy everything neverwinter had to offer. Now we have boring vanilla options for our characters (even though we have 3 tree's) that we must spend months grinding campaign's, RP, enchantments, and AD. There is no uniqueness anymore. I'm sick of campaign's (underdark was nice because alts didnt have to grind for access to stuff), I'm sick of RP, I'm sick of HE's, and I really miss all the dungeon options we had prior to MOD 6.
Here and idea to bring back some of the uniqueness, I have armor sets that enhance a specific class tree, mind blown! I can now choose between 3 different sets....Of course that would mean all trees for all classes would have to be effective , whelp......
This is just another thing there taking away from players (mostly old school players that didn't salvage these sets) without adding anything new and it's really getting kind of old. You want me to swallow this pill right? Here's a another idea to make it easier. You know them +5 underdark rings (yeah its been a year now and i still have yet to see one drop) how about you allow me to trade my set (the OP one that is getting nerfed) in for a +5 ring of my choice????? You see its only going to effect a small part of the community (by your own words), and +5 rings are not broken (although they do add to the power creep). Now I'm on board with this (still begrudgingly, I don't like change ) but i get it and understand that the change was needed but in the same note you still showed me that you valued me as consumer of your product, both sides have come to an agreement... and there was no just take, take, take and the community see this....
Mod 10 was visually stunning and the new zones are fun, so much potential, I was really excited for it. Alt friendly it is not. Empowered gear is not worth the pain and FBI is not worth the time.
So what does the "balanced" neverwinter look like??? How long do we have to wait??? Is neverwinter still in Beta?? What standard should the common player be balanced by? If its going to be by the elite gamers then we're in trouble. I pug a lot and there are lots of players that need help and direction.....
I understand that these wearables are a problem. I understand that they want to alter them. I am furious that some players had a head start on this information. I despise that something very valuable I is taken/altered/destroyed/devalued and so far no compensation is being discussed.
When are they remove the bonus from Vorpal enchantments because they speed up Fanbreaker runs?
-.- the compensation was being able to do content REDICULOUSLY fast for a really long period of time.. you guys that qq about losing something that you have been benefiting from for ages when the general community isn't.. this just pisses me off. You act like you are ENTITLED to be able to walk through content and farm 10's of millions of AD indefinitely... (don't act like these sets didn't let people who had them farm the best loot in game and make back any ad invested in the sets many times over). That's not including easier advancement in virtually every other area in game too.. like DF and SH stuff.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
These sets were op,and they were the main reason for trivializing the content.
Most of the counter arguments against the removal of these broken-at current state of the game-sets are dead wrong. Some words in general:
1.Survivability is not an issue as the dev pointed out.Since the main cultprints HP and HV are worn by ranged dps,all you need is a good tank and you are safe. The sets provide so much DPS increase the OFFENSE PROVIDES DEFENSE.In other words with these sets the TtK (time to kill) ratio is so small that the mobs don't have enough time to kill you.
2.The SH boon ,30k HP offsets the handicaps of these sets.
3.Broken items of the game provided defense for HP/HV users,in particular most if not all groups running with one tank and the old sets,were using Ambush rings,pre nerf.It is not coinsidernse the devs in appearance of fbi speed runs nerfed hard the ambush rings.
4.As a combination of the above,there is not skill required to run content in a group prepared to use that broken sets. All they have to do is to bring two tanks and/or ambush rings (well they can't do it now-no more speed runs lol)
5.The sets were not expensive and did not required grind.There was nothing extraordinary demanding to do to aquire KC or HP at least.I remember late mod4 prices cause i bought some gear for a fellow in legit that could not get his KC gauntlets from Idris. I think i bought them in AH for 6k back then.So much for the "grind " the poor fellows suffered.
6.Some tried to lie here in plain sight trying hard to defend the broken sets.Claiming that the buff is not so great,hard dr mobs diminish the sets effectiveness...Well..some news:Mobs do not have defense ,they have Dr but not defense.Cause of that dear Ainsteins when the tooltip states "defense" it is just a plain % damage increase.Educate yourselves please before you attempt to "theorycraft'.these are things we all know from mod1 and onward...
T
7.Since most if not all,debuffs are multiplicative ,a party wearing the broken combo of the broken sets ,will melt any boss with minimal skill required. Since the exact formula of cryptic is secret,and most of these sets are able to reaplly them at any given time,they end up in doing way more damage that we can record.
8.I own both HP set on my Dc aswell KC on one of my Gfs.I can run the sets anytime i want but i find it cheap.So don't say to me that I am jealous,cause I own the sets except HV.
9.Seeing some defending these brokeness made me sad.Really guys?In one point you want harder content and in other minute you cry cause they took your cheese? Lostmauth case N2.
10.After the old sets correction,the ambush correction ,the playing field will be equal and skill will matter.
11.After the old sets correction some of the groups that did speed runs on fbi and boasted for that, i doubt they will even climb the giants uphill.Pitty
Hey it took me quite some time to acquire HP, since it was a T1 set. I had to farm mad dragon and blackdagger for a month or so every day. That being said, I don't think that most people in there are opposed to the change.
Those who, as you say, claim it's not a big deal just changed perspective overnight. Two days ago it was BiS-must-wear-or-noob in all guides, because it was a 30% debuff, today it's a 8% damage increase and shouldn't be touched. It's the same figure really, but there are two ways of presenting it. The fact that these sets were "old vets only" also introduced a bias since we had years to practice playing this game and become much better at farming and cheesing the content.
That being said, I do hope the devs address the two big remaining offenders: the damage formula and some broken powers like anointed army. First, stats buffs to pets that transfer to their masters through bondings just suck as a mechanic, then, making people almost immune to damage is cheesy beyond reason. Sadly there are at least 10-15 powers like that in this game.
There we can see Hadar's grasp bugging the boss.It is pretty certain SW bugged any giant that could aswell.We just didn't see it.Since FOV of the recorder is 55.
The guy ,the cw that tellsus he can do with out old sets was there. That is the way you do it?By bugging control immune NPCs ,exploiting Hadar's Grasp?
I have no problem with the other party members they did not came to forums to boast themselves but someone that shouts loudly about speed runs and came here.
----------------------------------
In and to conclusion:
Pics of groups doing speedruns of |FBI when SW is present,are out of the question,and account to nothing and prove nothing.They cannot used as counter measure to the argument that old sets play minor role in speedruns. cause here we see another factor that trivialized the content pre patch,SW and pierce cc immunities.
Counter exploit with another?Nope.
You guys will always find something u can blame it on. xD The vids over our runs will be up soon. What will u blame it on when u see we run totaly legit? i wanst using any boss bug mechanics. And what u will see to is that our dmg without sets was equal. We did only 2 runs without and were running for like 6 hours alrdy so our concentration was a bit low in the end. We definitly can beat time the devs reportet (16:37) without sets.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
There we can see Hadar's grasp bugging the boss.It is pretty certain SW bugged any giant that could aswell.We just didn't see it.Since FOV of the recorder is 55.
The guy ,the cw that tellsus he can do with out old sets was there. That is the way you do it?By bugging control immune NPCs ,exploiting Hadar's Grasp?
I have no problem with the other party members they did not came to forums to boast themselves but someone that shouts loudly about speed runs and came here.
----------------------------------
In and to conclusion:
Pics of groups doing speedruns of |FBI when SW is present,are out of the question,and account to nothing and prove nothing.They cannot used as counter measure to the argument that old sets play minor role in speedruns. cause here we see another factor that trivialized the content pre patch,SW and pierce cc immunities.
Counter exploit with another?Nope.
You guys will always find something u can blame it on. xD The vids over our runs will be up soon. What will u blame it on when u see we run totaly legit? i wanst using any boss bug mechanics. And what u will see to is that our dmg without sets was equal. We did only 2 runs without and were running for like 6 hours alrdy so our concentration was a bit low in the end. We definitly can beat time the devs reportet (16:37) without sets.
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
You act like you are ENTITLED to be able to walk through content and farm 10's of millions of AD indefinitely... (don't act like these sets didn't let people who had them farm the best loot in game and make back any ad invested in the sets many times over). That's not including easier advancement in virtually every other area in game too.. like DF and SH stuff.
Hold up, I was suppose to be able to make 10's of millions of AD by being a long time player and having these sets? Well HAMSTER I never got that memo.
@asterdahl Now that you've finally taken on the menace of the pre-mod 6 armor sets, are there any plans to address the Dusk Set? The set bonus for 2 pieces would now be the most powerful set bonus on any armor in the game, it's so powerful in fact that most players use at least two pieces of the Dusk Set over higher item level armors like the Dragonflight Set and Relic armor.
Post edited by cobrajockey22#2327 on
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torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
This is agood idea for the long term, it is a hard one and I will back the devs here. But I would just like to add that the High Vizier set was the only thing tha allowd my Opressor CW (the CC focused tree) to be invited into dungeon runs. Without its bonus, my Opressor is useless now for endgame PVE content.
I would just like to remind the devs here that CC focused trees (for all classes, except HR - Trapper is in a good place) are in a very bad position, without a role to play in end game content.
There was an amazing game from Crypt that had it right - City of Heroes/City of Villains, where the Controller archetype was AMAZING to play. I loved my Controller in CoH/CoV.
And what made it great? CC + Debuffs. One thing I would like to recommend, that would fix both issues (underperforming feat trees + old set bonus removal), would be to add more debuffs to CC focused trees (CW Opressor, HR Trapper, TR Scoundrel, GWF Instigator, etc)
If the CC focused trees had access to more debufss, this would create more gameplay diversity, and would alleviate the pain from removing the old sets.
Just an idea.
+1 this.. I don't think a single enemy in SKT can be controlled by any of my "control" wizards moves. Entangle grasp/Frozen/Stealtime/etc/etc/etc
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
There we can see Hadar's grasp bugging the boss.It is pretty certain SW bugged any giant that could aswell.We just didn't see it.Since FOV of the recorder is 55.
The guy ,the cw that tellsus he can do with out old sets was there. That is the way you do it?By bugging control immune NPCs ,exploiting Hadar's Grasp?
I have no problem with the other party members they did not came to forums to boast themselves but someone that shouts loudly about speed runs and came here.
----------------------------------
In and to conclusion:
Pics of groups doing speedruns of |FBI when SW is present,are out of the question,and account to nothing and prove nothing.They cannot used as counter measure to the argument that old sets play minor role in speedruns. cause here we see another factor that trivialized the content pre patch,SW and pierce cc immunities.
Counter exploit with another?Nope.
You guys will always find something u can blame it on. xD The vids over our runs will be up soon. What will u blame it on when u see we run totaly legit? i wanst using any boss bug mechanics. And what u will see to is that our dmg without sets was equal. We did only 2 runs without and were running for like 6 hours alrdy so our concentration was a bit low in the end. We definitly can beat time the devs reportet (16:37) without sets.
There we can see Hadar's grasp bugging the boss.It is pretty certain SW bugged any giant that could aswell.We just didn't see it.Since FOV of the recorder is 55.
The guy ,the cw that tellsus he can do with out old sets was there. That is the way you do it?By bugging control immune NPCs ,exploiting Hadar's Grasp?
I have no problem with the other party members they did not came to forums to boast themselves but someone that shouts loudly about speed runs and came here.
----------------------------------
In and to conclusion:
Pics of groups doing speedruns of |FBI when SW is present,are out of the question,and account to nothing and prove nothing.They cannot used as counter measure to the argument that old sets play minor role in speedruns. cause here we see another factor that trivialized the content pre patch,SW and pierce cc immunities.
Counter exploit with another?Nope.
You guys will always find something u can blame it on. xD The vids over our runs will be up soon. What will u blame it on when u see we run totaly legit? i wanst using any boss bug mechanics. And what u will see to is that our dmg without sets was equal. We did only 2 runs without and were running for like 6 hours alrdy so our concentration was a bit low in the end. We definitly can beat time the devs reportet (16:37) without sets.
if you want to play it with videos replace gf with an op and sw with gwf. AND report back if you can 16m.
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
When you critics run new content for hours on teamspeak perfecting the mechanics and coordination required to pull off the efficiency that you see demonstrated by @thefabricant and his team, then come back and make comments. These guys not only learn the most effecient ways to run this content, they also share that knowlege with the community, while also pointing out the bugs. They prove where the bugs/exploits/OP power combos are, and then surprisingly share that information. Then on top of it, prove that they can almost (within a few mins runtime) do the same thing with what those that can't call "legit". Human nature is a strange thing to watch sometimes.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
When you critics run new content for hours on teamspeak perfecting the mechanics and coordination required to pull off the efficiency that you see demonstrated by @thefabricant and his team, then come back and make comments. These guys not only learn the most effecient ways to run this content, they also share that knowlege with the community, while also pointing out the bugs. They prove where the bugs/exploits/OP power combos are, and then surprisingly share that information. Then on top of it, prove that they can almost (within a few mins runtime) do the same thing with what those that can't call "legit". Human nature is a strange thing to watch sometimes.
i never said they are not in teamspeak. i know that. i am asking for more accurate information a run with a paladin and a great weapon fighter at the place of the gf and the warlock. CAN all classes achieve under 20 minutes? OR we are forced to get a gf offensive stats and a sw to do as fast we can?
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
Lol...I would like to make millions of AD purely from owning the sets. I don't make that much purely from owning the sets, so please stop spreading false information.
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
Lol...I would like to make millions of AD purely from owning the sets. I don't make that much purely from owning the sets, so please stop spreading false information.
So you don't benefit from being able to speed run all content all day long? I only pug and since mod 6, I can count the number of times, with the fingers on one hand, that I was able to get the benefits of these speed runs on steroids.
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2016
BACK to sets subject. I Read an invalid information after the announcment . How a debuff 30% on high vizier is 6% dps boost when: IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.
Try it and report back. Perfect the run with your comp and see how well you can do. There will probably always be a perfect comp, however player synergy as well as class synergy probably has a lot to do with effecient runs.
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I think the only thing that's bothering me is that many old skins are still unobtainable (and most especially, the "Dungeon Dye Pack" colors they came with). My CW wears elemental Drowcraft, but two of the pieces are transmuted Arcane Overseer items. The "red" in those items is really NOT red; it has a slight blue component to it.
Perhaps better examples would be the Lolth gear, Hrimnir's helm, Stormcaller Tunic, and the two flavors of Greywolf Breastplate. These all had not only unique skins, but unique colors.
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Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
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Here is an image of FBI without any mod 5 sets, to compare to that time presented. We did not have any lucky CS hits though. You can compare this to that 16:37 time and get some idea of the difference the sets make, there is a video of this run, which I can upload if need be.
However, in 1 of our normal runs (since we normally do run with the sets) the stars did align with CS and got all near perfect hits, this was the result:
Take note, this was not due to mod 5 sets, (and not due to fabled, natsu does not own it) this was due to getting lucky on rolling the dice with commander's strike.
Irrelevant to current discussion but i saw not pics of the toons wearing or not the sets.This is internet ,and one word counts little.Sad but true.
I noticed both runs had a SW in party.
What is so special about Sws and FBI?
Sw....and hadar's grasp pro patch.
5.01-5.17
There we can see Hadar's grasp bugging the boss.It is pretty certain SW bugged any giant that could aswell.We just didn't see it.Since FOV of the recorder is 55.
The guy ,the cw that tellsus he can do with out old sets was there.
That is the way you do it?By bugging control immune NPCs ,exploiting Hadar's Grasp?
I have no problem with the other party members they did not came to forums to boast themselves but someone that shouts loudly about speed runs and came here.
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In and to conclusion:
Pics of groups doing speedruns of |FBI when SW is present,are out of the question,and account to nothing and prove nothing.They cannot used as counter measure to the argument that old sets play minor role in speedruns.
cause here we see another factor that trivialized the content pre patch,SW and pierce cc immunities.
Counter exploit with another?Nope.
I get why some would be upset on principle. This is a net reduction to the game, but it's a necessary one. Those peices were supposed to be obsolete in M6, and they were until people fully adapted and now with power creep through the roof again, those obsolete peices don't mean you're gonna die in 5 secs anymore like they were supposed too. These peices were SUPPOSED to have been useless. The intention of M6 was to make those peices go away.
It didn't happen. So, this is really just a natural extension of what was supposed to have happened back then. I don't really see a problem with it.
I also realize this old gear wasn't near as powerful or game-breaking as people think. Again, doesn't matter. The intention of M6 was to eliminate these sets, so since it failed to do so, M10.5 (M11? Not sure what the right designation is) will sort that out for good.
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same gf can do high commander strikes with other class? without sw you can do 14m ?
If my gf has only 12k power can i do high commander stirke? because i cannot on my gf even if you bring me the same sw.
Maybe buy an epic trowl while your at it so you can farm your voninbold faster for your new storm kings thunder armour you'll use now instead?
The main problem in my book is how we are being informed, and how its being handled. People are already saying "Well at least you got to use the old sets for so long and that should be enough", but I just don't see it that way. Ok, fine they need to go for "balancing" issues but as you can see above FBI was done in about the same time without using the old sets.....
So what the point, the people that are doing these runs will always have the best times. You want to know why.... it's because they know what they are doing, have worked together for some amount of time, and are coordinated. For their efforts we get to have something nerfed to try and bring it back in "align" with what the game makers consider a standard. These guys will always be better than the standard because of there understanding of the mechanics and there game play. If the game makers are basing the standard off them we are in trouble because most can not compete with that level of game play....
I understand there are issues out there but what is the cause of these issues (power creep maybe)?? Are we being told that we all are going to have to be epic game players like these guys to enjoy Neverwinter??
I'm having a hard time swallowing this pill not just because set bonuses are going away...There is no way to optimize your character and your style of game play. It seems we are all being funneled in one direction and can only have one effective play style just so the game can be "balanced". Why even give us options then?? Why not just have one tree for each class??? Wouldn't it be easier to balance the game then?
In neverwinter 1.0 (mod 1 thru 5) you didn't need to be (for instance) a CW running Thurg with the HV set and still be effective. I know cause i was and CW OP running with shadow weaver's and having a great time. Now, if i run CW OP I am literally shooting myself in the foot because there is very little need for CC (maybe PvP, but i dont PvP) and there is so much CC immune stuff running around that it not good option. What about armor selection? Whelp you got to look at power, crit, and.... well there you go. So you should only be wearing the gear that maximizes your power and crit because the rest is just a waste of time, ohh and don't dip to much into the OP tree (just CW perspective I know there are others out there with similar perspectives for there favorite class)...
Come on, the game was better in Mod 1 thru 5 because there were options to make your character unique and still enjoy everything neverwinter had to offer. Now we have boring vanilla options for our characters (even though we have 3 tree's) that we must spend months grinding campaign's, RP, enchantments, and AD. There is no uniqueness anymore. I'm sick of campaign's (underdark was nice because alts didnt have to grind for access to stuff), I'm sick of RP, I'm sick of HE's, and I really miss all the dungeon options we had prior to MOD 6.
Here and idea to bring back some of the uniqueness, I have armor sets that enhance a specific class tree, mind blown! I can now choose between 3 different sets....Of course that would mean all trees for all classes would have to be effective
This is just another thing there taking away from players (mostly old school players that didn't salvage these sets) without adding anything new and it's really getting kind of old. You want me to swallow this pill right? Here's a another idea to make it easier. You know them +5 underdark rings (yeah its been a year now and i still have yet to see one drop) how about you allow me to trade my set (the OP one that is getting nerfed) in for a +5 ring of my choice????? You see its only going to effect a small part of the community (by your own words), and +5 rings are not broken (although they do add to the power creep). Now I'm on board with this (still begrudgingly, I don't like change
Mod 10 was visually stunning and the new zones are fun, so much potential, I was really excited for it. Alt friendly it is not. Empowered gear is not worth the pain and FBI is not worth the time.
So what does the "balanced" neverwinter look like??? How long do we have to wait??? Is neverwinter still in Beta?? What standard should the common player be balanced by? If its going to be by the elite gamers then we're in trouble. I pug a lot and there are lots of players that need help and direction.....
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Those who, as you say, claim it's not a big deal just changed perspective overnight. Two days ago it was BiS-must-wear-or-noob in all guides, because it was a 30% debuff, today it's a 8% damage increase and shouldn't be touched. It's the same figure really, but there are two ways of presenting it. The fact that these sets were "old vets only" also introduced a bias since we had years to practice playing this game and become much better at farming and cheesing the content.
That being said, I do hope the devs address the two big remaining offenders: the damage formula and some broken powers like anointed army. First, stats buffs to pets that transfer to their masters through bondings just suck as a mechanic, then, making people almost immune to damage is cheesy beyond reason. Sadly there are at least 10-15 powers like that in this game.
The vids over our runs will be up soon. What will u blame it on when u see we run totaly legit?
i wanst using any boss bug mechanics. And what u will see to is that our dmg without sets was equal. We did only 2 runs without and were running for like 6 hours alrdy so our concentration was a bit low in the end. We definitly can beat time the devs reportet (16:37) without sets.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1218370/high-prophet-and-knight-captain-set/p7
Thoughts???
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
Now that you've finally taken on the menace of the pre-mod 6 armor sets, are there any plans to address the Dusk Set? The set bonus for 2 pieces would now be the most powerful set bonus on any armor in the game, it's so powerful in fact that most players use at least two pieces of the Dusk Set over higher item level armors like the Dragonflight Set and Relic armor.
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Thanks for all the fish.
OR we are forced to get a gf offensive stats and a sw to do as fast we can?
IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.