Sad thing is that GWF's temp HP is nerfed. GWFs on sentinel tree can't tank at all as GFs do yet GFs can deal 10M+ AoD hits. Prones were removed from the class because it denyes "deflection", making "IBS" "guaranted" yet almost all other classes have prones on their encounters, meaning that "AoD" is granted after "bull charge" or just that players whose think that having 3k IL thanks to enchants on Utility slots yet can't tank Orcus as IV GF... See? as usual, easely debunked. Keep trolling!!!
I'm not trolling, I'm being very polite and respective. It would be great if you do the same. As for the rest, I barely understood anything you just said.
I see (I think) you're upset about some of the GWF changes. I've watched many videos of GWFs beating GFs in PvP. Not easy, but they did it. I don't see those posters constantly complaining for other classes to be nerfed. I've always thought skills should work differently in PvP and PvE. Things like ITF, KC, and SWW should work differntly in both sets.
Again, for like the millionth time, GFs hitting high AoD hits is respective to the context. They're not throwing those numbers around all over the place, but under specific situations with lots of cumulative and multiplicative buffs. I think the buff system is going to get an overhaul (worked on). I say lets see where that leads us before continuing to fight in the nerf them/buff me pits.
The only data I can gather from GFs on the forum is that they hate GWFs and OPs. It is not about balance for them, just downing other players with vicious toxicity.
I don't speak for other GFs as far as intentions but I have seen on this forum, in the last 3 months, GWFs arguing for GF nerfs and GFs being on the defensive side of the discussion. So I would say your statement is reversed.
I wouldn't say that GF's hate the OP class. Maybe some jealousy for taking our PvE job. But the devs gave us new buffs to make us relevant again but you GWFs are vehemently fighting to have those taken away. Resorting to all kinds of unscrupulous tactics, rhetoric, and propaganda. Can't we just discuss without all the drama and BS?
December 2015 I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before.
Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
clonkyo1. "Balance" from a player's perspective is, and will always be, relative. The human element is the real problem here. I'm not saying nothing is wrong.
You keep trying to defend from a invented elevation of 'experienced players.'
I've been playing since mod2. Isn't that enough? What is enough? What makes you the judge of that? I mean, come on now. This game isn't Path of Exile or anything. It's complexity revivals games from Nintendo 1983.
How much experience do you need with a game, that could fit on a floppy disk, before the opinion is valid?
And I see you have a pattern of invading options other then yours with this position of elitism. If you agree with clonkyo1, you're experience; If not, you're non-experienced or something. The delimiter is hard to understand and looks fake.
I honestly don't know anything about you. What I do know for a fact about you is you're a GWF fighting to nerf the GF, just like the rest of the herd.
So you'll have to pardon my suspect of your motives when these nerf them/buff me arguments fester to the top of the forum list with GWFs leading the charge. Why is it always GWFs?
And recently we had our Temp HP nerfed as GF got more buffs to add insult to injury.
Yeah, that was really dumb timing. I don't even get why those buffs came out. I don't recall any GF complaining about at-wills recently. Yeah, they sucked, but the encounters made up for it. *shrug*
I don't think the unstoppable nerfs were for balance as much as the myriad of GWF youtubes for: Hey I soloed this boss, look at me world! *chest bump* A few whales bragged and got the whole class nerfed. The few plant the seeds of sorrow for the rest of us. GFs got the same thing and the rest of us will pay for it.
I think the focus should be on the stat and buff sytem, not micro-focusing on classes right now. Keep it on the list, but not first. I think the insignias was a step in the wrong direction and the bonding stone 'fix' was just not intended. Ambush rings, adorable pets, etc.. Power-creep is crazy right now. If you talked about DPS GFs 3 mods ago, people would think you were high.
This argument about who needs to be nerfed is pointless. And really if your GWF is getting out done by a similar equipped GF then there is a serious problem in your gameplay as GF absolutely cannot touch a GWF for damage dealing. At least 2 other people have told you the same thing there @defiantone99.
You don't see me on every nerf GWF post crying because some freak of nature GWF can out tank me. But I can find a trail of your tears across at least 4 nerf GF posts. Every time I see anything mentioning GF, there you are trying to get it nerfed. Other people have told you the same thing too so don't be all surprised.
And by balanced do you mean making it so they can't do anything but sit behind their shield and block for you? Because that is what the GWF crew wants.
Why not start a thread to get your prone back? Or better yet stop posting all about how you think GFs need to be nerfed when ever anyone says GF.
I'm not against making adjustments to GF, but all the suggestions on here are straight up nerfs, ignoring the fact that the game as a whole needs adjustment. They really need to widen the difficulty of the dungeons, not narrow the characters. Because that gap and a few broken interactions is why all of this is an issue right now.
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
Na, just mention GF and balance in the same sentence and you get the same crew of GFs trashing the thread. I recall seeing promises to ragequit if GF is balanced.
and this applies to GWFs as well... *cough cough*
The Nerf hammer comes and the nerf hammer goes. It is ill timed, usually results in worse conditions for that class, than the problems with the few BiSers who created the op appearance in the first place. The issue I have, and at which I take odds, is the lack of honesty that you show in the evaluation of your own preferred class. You, who have a 3.3k GWF, try to make it as if you are suffering in game play, because of the GF. And then you link a video of, arguably, the top GF in the whole game, as an example of the whole class. If you have 100,000 GFs in the whole game (arguable), only a handful have the BiS status that the GF in video has, including all the guild boons and mounts etc. I am 4k, and I don't have the stuff he has, and I am 3 years into this game. It is dishonest logic to say, because the very top GF can do this, the class needs to be nerfed, while ignoring the evidence that the very top GWF can also do the same thing (and other classes btw), and then argue for more buffs because you can't do it.
Be honest. The game is too easy above 3-3.5k TIL. The honest evaluation would be that power creep is in the game based on adding all of these extra stats that is creating a disparity in content, so that the game is no longer fun. If the few suggestions I make are followed, or other suggestions at hard capping everything at 80%, are followed, then power creep will at least be arrested, for a time. Or, make content tiered. But, I have not seen you give a positive inclination to any of these suggestions. With a resetting of power creep, some of the issues you have brought up through the GF, will be alleviated. But, the problem is, you still refuse to admit that the power creep has affected the GWF as well.
Until you do, I cannot take your suggestions seriously, and consider them trolling.
I agree with you about the power creep. There are several ways of addressing it.
1. Stop adding new gear. 2. Let everyone buy the new shiny and get all powerful, then nerf the HAMSTER out of them and force them to rebuild. Making everyone angy in the process. 3. Continually add new content that is appropriate to the current highest level allowed.
Since we have seen new gear, and almost no new content we can assume that #2 is the chosen business plan.
By slotting IBS to stay relevant? No. If GWF didn't do damage for a brief period, it means that GWF is sprinting out from reds and normal attacks. SW, HR and CW are doing this with no re-positioning until a red shows up on their feet or re-allocate for better damage output.
Is this what you mean by competent? It's been clearly shown that other classes have a lower competence level than GWF. And people just raise up the bar on us. You didn't hear this when kicking other classes on "I kick you out because you didn't do enough damage for us". And that's from a DC.
I don't speak for other GFs as far as intentions but I have seen on this forum, in the last 3 months, GWFs arguing for GF nerfs and GFs being on the defensive side of the discussion. So I would say your statement is reversed.
Oh boy. Those GWFs really make us look bad. But honestly, I do think about getting GF nerfed, only to realize they're relying on ITF to burst or the KC + Steel Blitz,....uh, combo. I throw that nerf thought away.
And by balanced do you mean making it so they can't do anything but sit behind their shield and block for you? Because that is what the GWF crew wants.
And for DPS GFs out there, man up. The last thing I want to do is initiate mobs and be half-dead. Don't stand behind me and wait for teammates to get screwed so that you can do damage. You have a shield that blocks incoming damage for goodness sake, use it.
Why not start a thread to get your prone back? Or better yet stop posting all about how you think GFs need to be nerfed when ever anyone says GF.
When something is nerfed, there's absolutely no way we can get it back again. Asking prone to be back is useless. GF does not need to be nerfed, only some minor buff interaction tweaks. It's better to ask Iron Vanguard to be reworked at this point. This thing is useless if not for Threatening Rush and it's not enough of a reason to choose this over Swordmaster. I mean, what's the point of this paragon if it didn't bring any tankiness to builds?
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
It's better to ask Iron Vanguard to be reworked at this point. This thing is useless if not for Threatening Rush and it's not enough of a reason to choose this over Swordmaster. I mean, what's the point of this paragon if it didn't bring any tankiness to builds?
I agree. At the moment IV (which I am) is useless except for Threatening Rush and TR is only useful for mass marking trash and really who cares about whether you can clear the trash a few seconds faster.
. . . . nice to see some insightful comments from the GWF side of this discussion. A refreshing change.
. . . . nice to see some insightful comments from the GWF side of this discussion. A refreshing change.
I'm a GWF who currently tries to run away from Destroyer bandwagon. I don't think their views are similar like mine since...you know....paingiver? And I'm here thinking about my survivability while bringing effectiveness to the team.
For now, I managed to run away from IBS dependency. I don't really need it. And there wasn't any reason for me to compete DPS with each other if I can't save DCs, HRs, SWs, TRs and CWs from mobs and I know that aggro management on a tank isn't the perfect solution for every encounter, no matter how good a tank is.
And in pugs, I often teamed up with 2k+ IV Sentinel GWFs in Dwarven Gods recently. What's up with that? And nope, their effectiveness is what we all expected.
Oh look, another "I hate guardian fighters" thread. No more nerf threads please.
No one is saying what they should be saying. Tweaks that buff effectiveness of other toon types. No one harps on things that are broken to the extent that they hate on GF's. It's just, "GF fray is too powerful." Over and over again. If it's not that, then they try to back door the issue by blaming rings/rings on companions.
You want to complain? Figure out what is truly broken. Prove it, and then make that an epic thread that the devs can't deny.
I am of the opinion that no one, regardless of the type of character they play, should ask for a debuff. Not on any other type of toon. Rather, issue your complaints in a manner that improves/buffs, if you will, your character choice. My logic is, debuff means going backwards. Let's improve upon every toon. See? Think positive.
Lastly, all of this complaining about the GF and you know what the devs did? They improved GF play even more!!!!! Lol. That's right. They don't take your fray complaints seriously. So stop it.
Defiantone99= toxic. You seem to pop up in every gf thread ive read. And to be quite honest your little crusade both amuses and saddens me, for reasons i cant be bothered to type out. Have a nice day.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
2 - You keep trying to defend from a invented elevation of 'experienced players.' I've been playing since mod2. Isn't that enough? What is enough? What makes you the judge of that? I mean, come on now. This game isn't Path of Exile or anything. It's complexity revivals games from Nintendo 1983. How much experience do you need with a game, that could fit on a floppy disk, before the opinion is valid?
Your English is actually pretty good.
2 - Hours and hours and hours and hours of testing, parsing, recording and so on on "preview" (notice quotes) would do part of the job. So, a player could have started to play since mod 9 that if that player has spent a lot of time on preview testing things like a lot of us do/did, then, that player surely is an exp'd player. On the other hand, If a player has spent 0 hours "testing", then, even if if that player is playing this game since open beta or, worse yet, that player is just copying other's builds to play the game, "experienced player" is a big "word" for aforementioned player. Basically, an experienced player KNOWS "why **** is happenning", don't you think?
I for one love my GF and have played him exclusively from day one and wouldn't change a thing. I feel he's extremely versatile, where i can just switch out rings, artifacts, mount bonuses, compaions and its rings and a couple pieces of gear ang go from a dungeon running buffing animal to a OP pve beast, just melting mobs with 2 whacks. Now i put everything into him. Making offense and defense sets of everything. So to cut him back to mod 6 where i couldnt do any damage again would suck to say the least. Leave him be. The community is small enough. I dont want to leave to.
GF were fine until they added mound buffs and insignas making them overpower, and then come along new Bond gems. then what the heck is those devs doing all wrong, andding new stuffs and then start class nerfings, they are doing reverse balancings with extra nerfings instead of making the class better.
KC. i agreed, mod 6 really hurt us very deep, and now we are getting better and bam, another nerfings. devs need to finish balancing once and for all, then no more class nefings if they add something new, really tired of adjusting the skills, this is almost just as bad as LotRO's skills and deed traits and they cost too much to switch the skills. i am afraid that august 16 will be another Mod 6 problem all over again.
Comments
As for the rest, I barely understood anything you just said.
I see (I think) you're upset about some of the GWF changes. I've watched many videos of GWFs beating GFs in PvP. Not easy, but they did it. I don't see those posters constantly complaining for other classes to be nerfed. I've always thought skills should work differently in PvP and PvE. Things like ITF, KC, and SWW should work differntly in both sets.
Again, for like the millionth time, GFs hitting high AoD hits is respective to the context. They're not throwing those numbers around all over the place, but under specific situations with lots of cumulative and multiplicative buffs. I think the buff system is going to get an overhaul (worked on). I say lets see where that leads us before continuing to fight in the nerf them/buff me pits.
I wouldn't say that GF's hate the OP class. Maybe some jealousy for taking our PvE job. But the devs gave us new buffs to make us relevant again but you GWFs are vehemently fighting to have those taken away. Resorting to all kinds of unscrupulous tactics, rhetoric, and propaganda. Can't we just discuss without all the drama and BS?
Food for thought. Edit, tons of typos. Badly multi-tasking here.
"Balance" from a player's perspective is, and will always be, relative. The human element is the real problem here. I'm not saying nothing is wrong.
You keep trying to defend from a invented elevation of 'experienced players.'
I've been playing since mod2. Isn't that enough? What is enough? What makes you the judge of that? I mean, come on now. This game isn't Path of Exile or anything. It's complexity revivals games from Nintendo 1983.
How much experience do you need with a game, that could fit on a floppy disk, before the opinion is valid?
And I see you have a pattern of invading options other then yours with this position of elitism. If you agree with clonkyo1, you're experience; If not, you're non-experienced or something. The delimiter is hard to understand and looks fake.
I honestly don't know anything about you.
What I do know for a fact about you is you're a GWF fighting to nerf the GF, just like the rest of the herd.
So you'll have to pardon my suspect of your motives when these nerf them/buff me arguments fester to the top of the forum list with GWFs leading the charge. Why is it always GWFs?
Your English is actually pretty good.
I don't think the unstoppable nerfs were for balance as much as the myriad of GWF youtubes for: Hey I soloed this boss, look at me world! *chest bump* A few whales bragged and got the whole class nerfed. The few plant the seeds of sorrow for the rest of us. GFs got the same thing and the rest of us will pay for it.
I think the focus should be on the stat and buff sytem, not micro-focusing on classes right now. Keep it on the list, but not first. I think the insignias was a step in the wrong direction and the bonding stone 'fix' was just not intended. Ambush rings, adorable pets, etc.. Power-creep is crazy right now. If you talked about DPS GFs 3 mods ago, people would think you were high.
I'm not against making adjustments to GF, but all the suggestions on here are straight up nerfs, ignoring the fact that the game as a whole needs adjustment. They really need to widen the difficulty of the dungeons, not narrow the characters. Because that gap and a few broken interactions is why all of this is an issue right now.
The Nerf hammer comes and the nerf hammer goes. It is ill timed, usually results in worse conditions for that class, than the problems with the few BiSers who created the op appearance in the first place. The issue I have, and at which I take odds, is the lack of honesty that you show in the evaluation of your own preferred class. You, who have a 3.3k GWF, try to make it as if you are suffering in game play, because of the GF. And then you link a video of, arguably, the top GF in the whole game, as an example of the whole class. If you have 100,000 GFs in the whole game (arguable), only a handful have the BiS status that the GF in video has, including all the guild boons and mounts etc. I am 4k, and I don't have the stuff he has, and I am 3 years into this game. It is dishonest logic to say, because the very top GF can do this, the class needs to be nerfed, while ignoring the evidence that the very top GWF can also do the same thing (and other classes btw), and then argue for more buffs because you can't do it.
Be honest. The game is too easy above 3-3.5k TIL. The honest evaluation would be that power creep is in the game based on adding all of these extra stats that is creating a disparity in content, so that the game is no longer fun. If the few suggestions I make are followed, or other suggestions at hard capping everything at 80%, are followed, then power creep will at least be arrested, for a time. Or, make content tiered. But, I have not seen you give a positive inclination to any of these suggestions. With a resetting of power creep, some of the issues you have brought up through the GF, will be alleviated. But, the problem is, you still refuse to admit that the power creep has affected the GWF as well.
Until you do, I cannot take your suggestions seriously, and consider them trolling.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
1. Stop adding new gear.
2. Let everyone buy the new shiny and get all powerful, then nerf the HAMSTER out of them and force them to rebuild. Making everyone angy in the process.
3. Continually add new content that is appropriate to the current highest level allowed.
Since we have seen new gear, and almost no new content we can assume that #2 is the chosen business plan.
If GWF didn't do damage for a brief period, it means that GWF is sprinting out from reds and normal attacks. SW, HR and CW are doing this with no re-positioning until a red shows up on their feet or re-allocate for better damage output.
Is this what you mean by competent? It's been clearly shown that other classes have a lower competence level than GWF. And people just raise up the bar on us. You didn't hear this when kicking other classes on "I kick you out because you didn't do enough damage for us". And that's from a DC. Not anymore though. Other classes are better at dealing damage. Oh boy. Those GWFs really make us look bad. But honestly, I do think about getting GF nerfed, only to realize they're relying on ITF to burst or the KC + Steel Blitz,....uh, combo. I throw that nerf thought away. And for DPS GFs out there, man up. The last thing I want to do is initiate mobs and be half-dead. Don't stand behind me and wait for teammates to get screwed so that you can do damage. You have a shield that blocks incoming damage for goodness sake, use it. When something is nerfed, there's absolutely no way we can get it back again. Asking prone to be back is useless.
GF does not need to be nerfed, only some minor buff interaction tweaks.
It's better to ask Iron Vanguard to be reworked at this point. This thing is useless if not for Threatening Rush and it's not enough of a reason to choose this over Swordmaster. I mean, what's the point of this paragon if it didn't bring any tankiness to builds?
. . . . nice to see some insightful comments from the GWF side of this discussion. A refreshing change.
For now, I managed to run away from IBS dependency. I don't really need it. And there wasn't any reason for me to compete DPS with each other if I can't save DCs, HRs, SWs, TRs and CWs from mobs and I know that aggro management on a tank isn't the perfect solution for every encounter, no matter how good a tank is.
And in pugs, I often teamed up with 2k+ IV Sentinel GWFs in Dwarven Gods recently. What's up with that? And nope, their effectiveness is what we all expected.
No one is saying what they should be saying. Tweaks that buff effectiveness of other toon types. No one harps on things that are broken to the extent that they hate on GF's. It's just, "GF fray is too powerful." Over and over again. If it's not that, then they try to back door the issue by blaming rings/rings on companions.
You want to complain? Figure out what is truly broken. Prove it, and then make that an epic thread that the devs can't deny.
I am of the opinion that no one, regardless of the type of character they play, should ask for a debuff. Not on any other type of toon. Rather, issue your complaints in a manner that improves/buffs, if you will, your character choice. My logic is, debuff means going backwards. Let's improve upon every toon. See? Think positive.
Lastly, all of this complaining about the GF and you know what the devs did? They improved GF play even more!!!!! Lol. That's right. They don't take your fray complaints seriously. So stop it.
Dead🔪Now i put everything into him. Making offense and defense sets of everything. So to cut him back to mod 6 where i couldnt do any damage again would suck to say the least.
Leave him be. The community is small enough. I dont want to leave to.
KC. i agreed, mod 6 really hurt us very deep, and now we are getting better and bam, another nerfings.
devs need to finish balancing once and for all, then no more class nefings if they add something new, really tired of adjusting the skills, this is almost just as bad as LotRO's skills and deed traits and they cost too much to switch the skills.
i am afraid that august 16 will be another Mod 6 problem all over again.