the adjustment is pretty easy ITF is overdone in PVE and its overdone in PVP, all know about The more DR the more damage I deal? Buffing myself with 8k DR from SH Boon is nonsense I think
It would be a solution to get something like a PVP on a basic level where no crazy SH Boons, axbeak mount etc. work anymore. Implementing things like this allways have crazy effects , and since these effects are not tested just skip them
Post edited by schietindebux on
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
I love how many things you can get wrong in such a short post. Let's look it through.
First, you are contributing to the toxicity that oliboyph mentioned with your tone.
Second, you are being dishonest in your representation. "All along" implies a long exchange; the truth is that I simply corrected hypervoreian's dishonest summary of GF damage potential, where he mentioned one damage bonus but neglected to also bring in other important ones, in order to represent GF damage as being substantially lower than it is.
Third, I have not had time since that post to run a new test of mark to see for myself. As far as I'm aware, you can still get damage bonuses from multiple marks in certain situations. But I'm not given to fanatical certainty on an non-empirical basis, unlike a lot of people.
Fourth, in terms of you being a hypocrite, maybe you should have mentioned the fact that mark adds combat advantage, which is far more than a 5-8% damage boost mentioned above.
...
So yeah, you didn't come out of that looking well at all. Maybe now you want to tone down the toxicity level a bit and we can get on to discussing how to adjust GFs in a way that doesn't leave the class broken.
This is one for those games u rly dont want to play with me.
First of all, as u probably noticed i keep quiet for couple of last pages of this topic. Most important things i had to say i have said before, i dont rly want to get on face to face troll chatting, but for u, my dear CW is weak QQer, i will make an exeption.
Its not like u r not contributing to toxicity huh? by constantly leading a war against something, which wont, in overall outcome, change anything. U think ITF is a culpit there? Think again, harder. Im doing (well, i was doing) what those so called OP GF r doing without ITF/KC. All what will u do with nerfing ITF is gimping gf in pve, then u will come back here crying that gf is still too OP. And what will be left for gf? Mark, which u want prolly nerf too, judging by crusade against it, and gimped Divine Protection, what, not that... and KV. So yes, a way which wont leave GF utterly broken... w8...
Now, did i mentioned anything beside mark preformance in terms of stacking? I dont rly want to get into discusion with u guys, i simply dont see u guys worth it, u have created ur own crusade, just like cw community did many, many times before. U just want to dictate another change in favor for cw. And ur minds r blinded with that one goal, that one justifcation of ur underpreforming, so u found one skill to blame (wrongly) and u will do everything to destroy that skill.
Now, If u remember from my first posts, im first to admit that gf can hit way too hard, so who the hell r u calling a hypocrite? U r just advocating on nerfing gf in wrong way, and be sure, i wont help u with finding a right solution, its ur crusade, but i wont also for sure let u nerf what is pretty fair only real gf advatage in endgame pve. So no, lets not find a solution together, u actions so far proves u dont deserve my help on it, so come back here when u will finnaly find a great solution to tone down GF, maybe then me and other gf will share our ideas on that.
That said, as long as u will give me tr mobility or cw range on every skill, im gladly willing to give up half of my dmg. Otherway every class beside gwf will just kite us to death, especialy SW and CW, gwf will just smash us to death. That is if i dont use ambush ring *whistles*.
the adjustment is pretty easy ITF is overdone in PVE and its overdone in PVP, all know about The more DR the more damage I deal? Buffing myself with 8k DR from SH Boon is nonsense I think
It would be a solution to get something like a PVP on a basic level where no crazy SH Boons, axbeak mount etc. work anymore. Implementing things like this allways have crazy effects , and since these effects are not tested just skip them
TT is overpreforming in pve, lets make sure it cant multiproc anymore also lets cut its dmg by half at least.Also all those crazy dots r way too much, lets make sure none multiproc and put 1s CD on every, shall we?
Did I say that, or are you reading someone else's posts now? Oliboyph suggested nerfing it. I don't necessarily think reducing the damage added is a good idea, because it's so important for the GF's party contribution in PvE, which is something I've expressed in the past as well.
My suggestion was a restructuring because certain people want to flat out nerf it. And I always say I'm not even sure that changing it is the right thing to do.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
An when I wrote year ago to use pvp depression on all major buffs in game there werent any support for that idea and here you go. Lets halve all the stupid things like dprocector (in time maybe) all thats stupid selfbufs of op, then lests do the same for the stupidest renegades buf, itf the same, stupid dc holly ground and astral shield itp.... Lets start from this.
And then some ideas to make it harder for GWF and TR. GWF is overperforming in pve also so changes to stack system shouldnt be much of a blow. With tr maybe when flaged for pvp each hit takes 1,5 stealth that it is right now and longer cooldown for ITC, and here we go testing it on test server please. We know you cryptic dont have the knowlage of your game to do it yourself so we will do it for you.
Or if your lasy my fine developer just start with halving ALL effects hostile or no, on character when flaged for pvp. Imean all with stacks from conqueror, destroyer, for hostile marks, frozen, arcane itp.That should be simple enough. Lets test that.
I think you have to devide the problems, this thread clearly is focussed on the fact that PVP is redicules atm and GF is one actor in this and has it´s part as so many player claimed. The reason seems to be powercreeping and bad mechanics that do not scale or work. One reason may be boosting your damage by stacking defence ... SH boon pushes DR for 8k Imagine there will be more boons every mod or new crazy toys like pets or setboni ....so getting 20k DR ITF will do 200% damagebonus only by stacking DR in mod 10?
GF is not in a bad spot PVE wise, you can run every T2 or any other stuff and having that damageboost, everything is pretty fast and imo overdone from the first moment ITF got this kind of effect in PVE. As I remeber it was mod 6 when it started to be that way or it was the stats that made it that way not sure. The fact that GF can´t solo edemo does not mean he needs a buff, right? We do not have any kind of challenge or needed teamwork in any dungeon atm, noone is posting things like, healer tops tank and healer two group, or hunter kites adds or any stuff like that, its all time "burn them down" -unchallenging gameplay imo. To say GF is in a bad place due to the fact that Paladin is just broken in every aspect is not correct imo.
OP killed any kind of challenge in every dungeon, its a lame way of farming though them being protected by a tank that chains dailies, or obviously combines two effects to get very crazy effects (devine protector+binding oath). Only reading the tooltip I just think how bad this conception is. There are no threads about OP´s and fixing because it is so obvious , noone will interfere and defend it´s stupid mechanics, right? There are some adjustments to do and some megafixes (OP). Since all time the classes are not judged by their performance in PVP but in PVE, since this game is dedicated to PVE section i guess. And doing PVE there are lots of issues atm and the first thing what is needed should be some major fixes and getting stuff fixed like -->multiprocing bondings, giving you 500% companionstats at 3x rank 12 ..... 50k power and more is no problem by that. Again they forgot the internal cooldown as allways, 90% of problems seems to be reallted to this "little thing" devs do not get in their head,
For me the best combo for pve was and still is GF+DC becouse of the creazy buffs only lazy and unskilled need OP, but GF+DC make things go quicker (consider that both know what they are doing) but this is not the topic. The topic is that GF does too much dmg in pvp and thats true. But you can write the same topic for al and I realy mean ALL classes. We need global chang which will affect all classes. I am crious what my proposition would change.
I am pretty relieved that this thread is getting support by profound knowledge and deep insight from so many sides go on rocking gradfather, sry master , sounds really threatening and dangerous The solution is not that easy, you are right we need a complex solution all in all but atm some of your GF friends are providing lots of occasion why this thread is active (and by that are taking part in destroying the last small part of PVP with this abusive mannor of silly mechanics imo) and no, "Paladin-, CW-, Hunter-, TR- and DC-nerf-threads" are not en vogue
They allways mess with the weaker spot.... The weaker spot is GF's and SW's. GF's fighters recover and supermacy of steel already been hardly nerfed.
Will be really bad a nerf to ITF cause they wont nerf OP's bubble. GF's will be the useless class in this game both pvp and specially pve.
I dont mind to be nerfed in damage done at pvp (since i dont pvp anymore), but dont mess with pve gf.
ITF is a pve e. power, this is what still makes us usefull at parties.
Note: GF's have power at encounter powers, true. But GF's are also the slowest class using at wills (by far)... so yes, we need to have power at encounters to do damage.
They allways mess with the weaker spot.... The weaker spot is GF's and SW's. GF's fighters recover and supermacy of steel already been hardly nerfed.
Will be really bad a nerf to ITF cause they wont nerf OP's bubble. GF's will be the useless class in this game both pvp and specially pve.
I dont mind to be nerfed in damage done at pvp (since i dont pvp anymore), but dont mess with pve gf.
ITF is a pve e. power, this is what still makes us usefull at parties.
Note: GF's have power at encounter powers, true. But GF's are also the slowest class using at wills (by far)... so yes, we need to have power at encounters to do damage.
even when changing ITF to give it a fix damagebuff and be not dependeant from a defensive stat , wich is silly imo, this buff will stay a catalysator for every dungeon, atm you get buffed up tp 50%+ damage maybe more, and every dungeon I step in no matter if its demo/edemo or anything else, I know from the first second a GF is in the group becasue things melt like snow in the sun OP hopefully will get fixed to not gain AP during a daily like most other classes, in case they get it done he can´t do his permabubble combined with binding oath and deal silly ammount of damage by that they should implemet also to stop DC sigil from giving AP when a daily is up to prevent avery class from chaining dailies like it is atm
Clonkyo....you brought us a level 64 char uprated to 70...? really?
We all know untill reach 70,the upscale for all classes is bad...you just confirmed me,in a indirect way,that you guys lack arguments.
level64 uprated to 70..??
-------------------------
funny thing is...all the nerf supporters accuse the GFs for dogmatism...While Gfs provide data (like me) or ask for data ,the answers that give the nerfers in text is full of words like:
"I believe" "this is a fact" "we all know" "all know" etc.....
Even their choise of words is poor and shows a nerf crusade and a sterile dogmatism pitty for an once pretty community..
Wont do anything, you know why? cause all skilled pvp players are laughing hard with your comments like i said, the only class that can complain about pvp is SW
Yeah, mate, whatever you say. I already disprooved you, you should stay low for a while and be proud about your "Master of Gladiators" title, surely, you earned it. n_n .
BTW, Who are those "skilled PvP players"??? Hope you dont mean certain players on "PMvsPM" channel, in example...
Devs dont take actions based on pugs wihout pvp experience
Devs dont take actions based on pugs wihout pvp experience
That's obvious. Now, let us, PvP players, talk about "PvP balance" and let us find solutions to fix the whole mess PvP is right now.
you talked about gwf, tr, gf, dc and op's... so you play cw and hr and think they are balanced LOL ok, to balance things lets take out cw tabs shield, storm spell, eye of the storm and nerf things like assailing force, chaos magic, desintegrate and iceknife... its good for you? :d
Hr we take out crushing roots and all type of roots/stuns... nerf all trappers path. better? :d
you talked about gwf, tr, gf, dc and op's... so you play cw and hr and think they are balanced
First phrase, first mistake: Perma rooters HRs and Some CWs' mechanics are stupid and bring unbalance to PvP too. You can read it by your self few pages back. Keep rolling.
So your dalai lama and want to take down all the bad things from world xD good luck asking to nerf all classes, cause all are broken.
Note: Cw dont have some, cw have many broken things.
"I, for the life of me, cannot find a build ....that allows us to beat other classes who are 4k item level by 3 times the damage when we are 2-3k.What is the secret? "
Seeker of balance wants with his GWF to beat 3 time the DPS of toons 2k IL higher than him.And asks help from other GWFs.
I really like your meaning of "balance". This just shows you don't mean any word balance.You just want an easy time both pve and pvp.In pve by "superman" (lol) builds and in pvp by nerfing your opponents.
For him,it is absurd for bull charge to have prone, but for his IL to do 3x the dps of 4k Il toons is perfectly balanced!!!!!
It was a joke. Everyone keeps saying that GWF can do that, so I figured I would play along.
LOOOOL another noob onwed
Noob? Really? We lost our prones in PVP. Give us back Takedown, you can keep yours.
You lost takedown and won insane damage, tankiness and massive temporary hitpoints LOL omg this people...
"I, for the life of me, cannot find a build ....that allows us to beat other classes who are 4k item level by 3 times the damage when we are 2-3k.What is the secret? "
Seeker of balance wants with his GWF to beat 3 time the DPS of toons 2k IL higher than him.And asks help from other GWFs.
I really like your meaning of "balance". This just shows you don't mean any word balance.You just want an easy time both pve and pvp.In pve by "superman" (lol) builds and in pvp by nerfing your opponents.
For him,it is absurd for bull charge to have prone, but for his IL to do 3x the dps of 4k Il toons is perfectly balanced!!!!!
It was a joke. Everyone keeps saying that GWF can do that, so I figured I would play along.
LOOOOL another noob onwed
Noob? Really? We lost our prones in PVP. Give us back Takedown, you can keep yours.
you pvp with gwf since when? mod 3 and 4 its was unthinkable to build a gwf destroyer to go pvp... at that time gwf had to be only sentinel. Now you can mix all destroyer path to have dps, feats from sentinel to have tankiness, raise life steal, have negation and feytouched and you will kill gf's and all that appears in front of you.
Not true. I was Destroyer up until Mod 5 and did great in PVP for my GS. With Black Ice Gear, Destroyer was tanky, we were just terrible in PVE due to all the nerfs.
Best gwfs were sentinels with purified black ice gear.
GF Your Personal Yeti - Strawberry Yakuza
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Can we please stop with the personal attacks? Feel free to debate your side of this topic, but do it without the name calling. Please provide clear evidence to back up your side if need be. Thanks.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Can we please stop with the personal attacks? Feel free to debate your side of this topic, but do it without the name calling. Please provide clear evidence to back up your side if need be. Thanks.
Sorry this is not a debate, this is a nerf thread based on players without pvp experience that just want to see their class take advantage over the others... but hey, this is about gf's so everyone can talk about nerfs without closing this topic.
I remember when people talked about nerrfing HR, OP, GWF, CW and specially TR's and all topics were closed. So why this now? Im sure that all GF players would like an answer for this.
1 - Sorry this is not a debate, this is a nerf thread based on players without pvp experience that just want to see their class take advantage over the others... but hey, this is about gf's so everyone can talk about nerfs without closing this topic.
2 - I remember when people talked about nerrfing HR, OP, GWF, CW and specially TR's and all topics were closed. So why this now? Im sure that all GF players would like an answer for this.
1 - Yeah, thats why you should let us, PvP players, keep talking about how to balance this mess while you still do some PvP showing off your "Master of Gladiators" title. Trust us, we will make PvP really funny and enjoy-able again!!!! .
2 - Wrong, there was/are TR thread which are still open and if you want, you can open your own TR thread about S.E. and you'll see how wrong you are.
Your not a pvp player LOL you know what is a pvp player? your just a pvp queuer, an unexperienced player that know nothing about classes and are allways complaining because its what people without skills do.
Dont blame us cause of your lack of skills to kill someone with same ILv. Actually im sure i would kill your toon using another carather with lower ilv as yours.
1 - Sorry this is not a debate, this is a nerf thread based on players without pvp experience that just want to see their class take advantage over the others... but hey, this is about gf's so everyone can talk about nerfs without closing this topic.
2 - I remember when people talked about nerrfing HR, OP, GWF, CW and specially TR's and all topics were closed. So why this now? Im sure that all GF players would like an answer for this.
1 - Yeah, thats why you should let us, PvP players, keep talking about how to balance this mess while you still do some PvP showing off your "Master of Gladiators" title. Trust us, we will make PvP really funny and enjoy-able again!!!! .
2 - Wrong, there was/are TR thread which are still open and if you want, you can open your own TR thread about S.E. and you'll see how wrong you are.
Your not a pvp player LOL you know what is a pvp player? your just a pvp queuer, an unexperienced player that know nothing about classes and are allways complaining because its what people without skills do.
Dont blame us cause of your lack of skills to kill someone with same ILv. Actually im sure i would kill your toon using another carather with lower ilv as yours.
BTW i also play CW and i can kill GF's LOL well, i play all classes so I can compare them.
Comments
ITF is overdone in PVE and its overdone in PVP, all know about
The more DR the more damage I deal? Buffing myself with 8k DR from SH Boon is nonsense I think
It would be a solution to get something like a PVP on a basic level where no crazy SH Boons, axbeak mount etc. work anymore.
Implementing things like this allways have crazy effects , and since these effects are not tested just skip them
First of all, as u probably noticed i keep quiet for couple of last pages of this topic. Most important things i had to say i have said before, i dont rly want to get on face to face troll chatting, but for u, my dear CW is weak QQer, i will make an exeption.
Its not like u r not contributing to toxicity huh? by constantly leading a war against something, which wont, in overall outcome, change anything. U think ITF is a culpit there? Think again, harder. Im doing (well, i was doing) what those so called OP GF r doing without ITF/KC. All what will u do with nerfing ITF is gimping gf in pve, then u will come back here crying that gf is still too OP. And what will be left for gf? Mark, which u want prolly nerf too, judging by crusade against it, and gimped Divine Protection, what, not that... and KV. So yes, a way which wont leave GF utterly broken... w8...
Now, did i mentioned anything beside mark preformance in terms of stacking? I dont rly want to get into discusion with u guys, i simply dont see u guys worth it, u have created ur own crusade, just like cw community did many, many times before. U just want to dictate another change in favor for cw. And ur minds r blinded with that one goal, that one justifcation of ur underpreforming, so u found one skill to blame (wrongly) and u will do everything to destroy that skill.
Now, If u remember from my first posts, im first to admit that gf can hit way too hard, so who the hell r u calling a hypocrite? U r just advocating on nerfing gf in wrong way, and be sure, i wont help u with finding a right solution, its ur crusade, but i wont also for sure let u nerf what is pretty fair only real gf advatage in endgame pve. So no, lets not find a solution together, u actions so far proves u dont deserve my help on it, so come back here when u will finnaly find a great solution to tone down GF, maybe then me and other gf will share our ideas on that.
That said, as long as u will give me tr mobility or cw range on every skill, im gladly willing to give up half of my dmg. Otherway every class beside gwf will just kite us to death, especialy SW and CW, gwf will just smash us to death. That is if i dont use ambush ring *whistles*.
TT is overpreforming in pve, lets make sure it cant multiproc anymore also lets cut its dmg by half at least.Also all those crazy dots r way too much, lets make sure none multiproc and put 1s CD on every, shall we?
(Sin)cerely
Kain
And then some ideas to make it harder for GWF and TR. GWF is overperforming in pve also so changes to stack system shouldnt be much of a blow. With tr maybe when flaged for pvp each hit takes 1,5 stealth that it is right now and longer cooldown for ITC, and here we go testing it on test server please. We know you cryptic dont have the knowlage of your game to do it yourself so we will do it for you.
Or if your lasy my fine developer just start with halving ALL effects hostile or no, on character when flaged for pvp. Imean all with stacks from conqueror, destroyer, for hostile marks, frozen, arcane itp.That should be simple enough. Lets test that.
Steel and Magic
The reason seems to be powercreeping and bad mechanics that do not scale or work.
One reason may be boosting your damage by stacking defence ... SH boon pushes DR for 8k
Imagine there will be more boons every mod or new crazy toys like pets or setboni ....so getting 20k DR ITF will do 200% damagebonus only by stacking DR in mod 10?
GF is not in a bad spot PVE wise, you can run every T2 or any other stuff and having that damageboost, everything is pretty fast and imo overdone from the first moment ITF got this kind of effect in PVE. As I remeber it was mod 6 when it started to be that way or it was the stats that made it that way not sure.
The fact that GF can´t solo edemo does not mean he needs a buff, right?
We do not have any kind of challenge or needed teamwork in any dungeon atm, noone is posting things like, healer tops tank and healer two group, or hunter kites adds or any stuff like that, its all time "burn them down" -unchallenging gameplay imo.
To say GF is in a bad place due to the fact that Paladin is just broken in every aspect is not correct imo.
OP killed any kind of challenge in every dungeon, its a lame way of farming though them being protected by a tank that chains dailies, or obviously combines two effects to get very crazy effects (devine protector+binding oath).
Only reading the tooltip I just think how bad this conception is.
There are no threads about OP´s and fixing because it is so obvious , noone will interfere and defend it´s stupid mechanics, right?
There are some adjustments to do and some megafixes (OP).
Since all time the classes are not judged by their performance in PVP but in PVE, since this game is dedicated to PVE section i guess.
And doing PVE there are lots of issues atm and the first thing what is needed should be some major fixes and getting stuff fixed like -->multiprocing bondings, giving you 500% companionstats at 3x rank 12 ..... 50k power and more is no problem by that. Again they forgot the internal cooldown as allways, 90% of problems seems to be reallted to this "little thing" devs do not get in their head,
Steel and Magic
The solution is not that easy, you are right we need a complex solution all in all
but atm some of your GF friends are providing lots of occasion why this thread is active (and by that are taking part in destroying the last small part of PVP with this abusive mannor of silly mechanics imo)
and no, "Paladin-, CW-, Hunter-, TR- and DC-nerf-threads" are not en vogue
Will be really bad a nerf to ITF cause they wont nerf OP's bubble. GF's will be the useless class in this game both pvp and specially pve.
I dont mind to be nerfed in damage done at pvp (since i dont pvp anymore), but dont mess with pve gf.
ITF is a pve e. power, this is what still makes us usefull at parties.
Note: GF's have power at encounter powers, true. But GF's are also the slowest class using at wills (by far)... so yes, we need to have power at encounters to do damage.
OP hopefully will get fixed to not gain AP during a daily like most other classes, in case they get it done he can´t do his permabubble combined with binding oath and deal silly ammount of damage by that
they should implemet also to stop DC sigil from giving AP when a daily is up to prevent avery class from chaining dailies like it is atm
really?
We all know untill reach 70,the upscale for all classes is bad...you just confirmed me,in a indirect way,that you guys lack arguments.
level64 uprated to 70..??
-------------------------
funny thing is...all the nerf supporters accuse the GFs for dogmatism...While Gfs provide data (like me) or ask for data ,the answers that give the nerfers in text is full of words like:
"I believe" "this is a fact" "we all know" "all know" etc.....
Even their choise of words is poor and shows a nerf crusade and a sterile dogmatism
you talked about gwf, tr, gf, dc and op's... so you play cw and hr and think they are balanced LOL ok, to balance things lets take out cw tabs shield, storm spell, eye of the storm and nerf things like assailing force, chaos magic, desintegrate and iceknife... its good for you? :d
Hr we take out crushing roots and all type of roots/stuns... nerf all trappers path. better? :d
then i will talk about balance with you :d
Note: Cw dont have some, cw have many broken things.
you pvp with gwf since when? mod 3 and 4 its was unthinkable to build a gwf destroyer to go pvp... at that time gwf had to be only sentinel. Now you can mix all destroyer path to have dps, feats from sentinel to have tankiness, raise life steal, have negation and feytouched and you will kill gf's and all that appears in front of you.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I remember when people talked about nerrfing HR, OP, GWF, CW and specially TR's and all topics were closed. So why this now? Im sure that all GF players would like an answer for this.
Your not a pvp player LOL you know what is a pvp player? your just a pvp queuer, an unexperienced player that know nothing about classes and are allways complaining because its what people without skills do.
Dont blame us cause of your lack of skills to kill someone with same ILv. Actually im sure i would kill your toon using another carather with lower ilv as yours.
BTW i also play CW and i can kill GF's LOL well, i play all classes so I can compare them.