The game is has not much left because they intentionally changed the design to prevent the new people to progress, they basically move the balance from "casual player friendly" to "unable to progress unless u pay". I would suggest that anyone that is trying to defend the new system just create an account from zero and try to make it progress without getting any help from your main account nor paying 100 dollars just to start. When you do that, you find yourself without artifact (new account dont get sigils to fill in the empty spots and now making alts just for sigils take a lot more time), without powerpoints farmed (check the amount of exp needed just to get 1 PP after lvl70 and the playing hours that you need just to pray the RNG god to get a PP instead of a few R4 enchants), with no AD to buy R7 enchants and without even green companions.
The people that defend the current state of the games and changes they made are the ones that they have already all that they need, but if you are a new player and you dont have any of that you are just not going to make it unless you pay real money. When ive started playing this game at the end of Mod2 I could recommend it to any of my friends (I actually did) but rigth now you really have to hate someone if you tell him that this is game to give a chance.
The game lost about 33% of the playerbase from the month before M6 to the month before M7 (33% on 4 months, ouch). You always get peak of players that try the new content during the launch of the new mods, but the problem is that the peak of players that returned when they launched the M7 was of 362 average and inmediatly after that month they already lost 483 and keep dropping. I know that those statistics are from the people that use the steam launcher only, but if you say that in term of percent that isn't representative of the actual situation you are just lying urself or you are not logging and checking your own friend list empty.
The problem still is, that the AD costs for many important things are still the very same, but the "average" player has now less AD to spend.
How much AD do you think the "average" player makes from Leadership each day? I don't think it is as much as you think. Also, many of the most important things to the average player has come down in price:
- gmops (25% of orig) for up to rank 10 - various RP stuff on AH is, on average, less than before (resonance stones are 1/2 price, R4 and R5 have dropped but rebounded lately probably due to changes to Ghost Stories) - CWards and PWards are tied to zen, so prices for those are down - many various mounts, companions, bags, profession assets and equipment on AH (available in zen store or not) have dropped in price
The average player doesn't have upgrading companion / mount, best armor kits, or unlocking MH/OH powers as their priority. I DO believe that the AD requirements for SH upgrades and feats respec should come down though. But many? I guess it depends on your definition of many, but regardless of that, it is still relatively few compared to all the stuff that did come down in price
Granted, that the gap between BIS and average joe got smaller, but the work you will have to invest, to close it, after reaching a certain point, got more, not less.
Let's be honest here, the smaller gap is the more important thing to the average joe. Pass that certain point you are referring to? Well, they wouldn't be the average joe now, would they?
At least another 5-6 years. Till the next gen consoles come out. Smartest move PWE/Cryptic did was get the D&D Neverwinter IP. It'll keep attracting new players because of that association. If this was a new IP, with the changes theyve made, the playerbase would of crashed and never been able to stabilize or recover.
The Neverwinter D&D IP and the expansion into consoles will keep this game here for awhile. The revenue generating systems are already in place, no real innovation, they are the same as any other MMORPG. But because of the name association, even if they keep making it unfavorable for players, itll still attract new blood.
Let's be honest here, the smaller gap is the more important thing to the average joe. Pass that certain point you are referring to? Well, they wouldn't be the average joe now, would they?
The thing is, that it was possible to gear up to beat all PvE dungeons before. The real difference is PvP here they 'closed' the gap in so far, that a new player will 'just' get half the stats of a BIS player and, oh joy, widened it by miles with stronghold boons, glyphs and active companions.
Get a OP or a faithful DC, slot a blacksmith and a renegade evoker and watch the DDs killing themself. The SW dares to move, get your cockatrice and beat him to pulp, while he is rooted. You dont want to get CCed and you dont want to lose the DR from your Tnegation, sylph, will o wisp and cankerous mage are your friends. For just 5 million ADs you can reflect dmg or CC or be tanky as you want with the right companions. Wait, you are a new player and you dont want to spent all the ADs you earn in 4 month on PvP specific companions, well, thats to bad.
They did not hurt the ppl with leadership armies bc they have millions of ADs and their ADs doubled in value. They did hurt normal players who did run leadership on their main and their alts, spending every AD to boost their chars/ guild stronghold...
A new player can reach a certain IL faster, but he will take ages more than an old player to reach BIS.
Sadly dude, your scenario assumes that BiS gear remains unchanged.
The new player you reference will never reach BiS gear level, because PWE has shown a propensity for moving the target when too many f2p types get close to the Promised Land.
The problem still is, that the AD costs for many important things are still the very same, but the "average" player has now less AD to spend.
How much AD do you think the "average" player makes from Leadership each day? I don't think it is as much as you think. Also, many of the most important things to the average player has come down in price:
- gmops (25% of orig) for up to rank 10 - various RP stuff on AH is, on average, less than before (resonance stones are 1/2 price, R4 and R5 have dropped but rebounded lately probably due to changes to Ghost Stories) - CWards and PWards are tied to zen, so prices for those are down - many various mounts, companions, bags, profession assets and equipment on AH (available in zen store or not) have dropped in price
The average player doesn't have upgrading companion / mount, best armor kits, or unlocking MH/OH powers as their priority. I DO believe that the AD requirements for SH upgrades and feats respec should come down though. But many? I guess it depends on your definition of many, but regardless of that, it is still relatively few compared to all the stuff that did come down in price
There are some big assumptions there, before the LS nerf the "average" player made a max 15.6k/day from each leadership slot maxed, the "average" player didn't have max leadership, so they were somewhere in the under 2kAD/day range. The "average" player wasn't L70, so they got bits and pieces of AD 50 here for invoking, 200 there for skirmishes 300 there from foundry etc., it was like that until they hot the 60 range or got leadership maxed.
The price drop might be a good thing....IF..a huge IF they normalize AD earning ability. So you lopped off a few 0's from gmops etc....you lopped off the 0's and the 1-9s of AD earning with the exception of very few tasks like grinding a limited number available dungeons/skirmish/pvp, if you don't conform to that mode you get zilch. How many players don't like one or more of those play modes? Many, oh so sorry... soup HAMSTER:NO SOUP (AD) FOR YOU!
As to other AD sinks in this game, every last single one of them should go away, they are unjustifiable now, they were put in to drain off the "excess" AD, ther aren't any "excess" now being earned.
As to the prices coming down on the AH so "average" players can "afford" them, 2 problems with that:
1.The "average" players AD earning potential has dropped to near nil now, the "average" player still can't buy the stuff now, he can look enviously at it yes, but he hasn't the AD to put together to buy it, despite the price falling.Just because the prices of goods drop during a depression, it don't mean you have the currency to take advantage of the lower prices, during a depression the only one that gets ahead are the rich people that are liquid enough to take advantage of the low prices.
2.The prices haven't fallen because "benevolent" Cryptic cared for the "average" player to get it, the prices have fallen because currently there is a fire sale going on, everyone's AD generation has fallen, they want either the Zen to get VIP, so they are selling off their stock at reduced prices to get the AD to do so, or they had invested in "alternate" currencies and with the Bazaar's pricing restructure have to liquidate what they have before it's totally worthless.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
So just a quick question for you guys. You know you can earn your full RAD reward from running non-epic dungeons, right?
Which should be a cake walk, even for a fresh 70. I went into ToS with a couple sub level 60 buddies the other day, and was able to clear the entire thing in 7 minutes, and got my full 3600 RAD reward. So if you do those two dungeons and some skirmishes, you should be easily earning a decent chunk of AD each day without investing a lot of time.
So just a quick question for you guys. You know you can earn your full RAD reward from running non-epic dungeons, right?
Which should be a cake walk, even for a fresh 70. I went into ToS with a couple sub level 60 buddies the other day, and was able to clear the entire thing in 7 minutes, and got my full 3600 RAD reward. So if you do those two dungeons and some skirmishes, you should be easily earning a decent chunk of AD each day without investing a lot of time.
In my opinion the worst thing rigth now of the game and the thing that prevent new people to play is not the leadership changes, a new player will never have that because that is something that it always took time to build. The biggest problem by far now is that when you reach to lvl61 is like the game just slap you on the face, if you are a new player that you was enjoying the storyline as the DnD RPG this game used to be (yeah, past tense) you suddenly find out that you are playing a totally different game. Now suddenly even if you did absolutly all the quest that the game ask you to do and you move from one part to the other you just not get even close to enough experience that you need to move from water to earth (you do get the quest but now you are playing vs mobs 2 or 3 levels higher than you). You move from getting 2 or 3 levels each hour of casual fun play to become just a grind play where you get smashed by normal mobs and unless you are a new player that come often to forums and read all post (you will find maybe 1 of 10 like that) he will most probably never find out about the "new curves" and why he is suddenly that weak when he didnt do anything wrong.
This thread is about how much life remaining has this game and in my opinion the problem is not just how much AD you can make, the main problem is that a game will never stay alive if you dont get a "flow" of new players. Rigth now we have just the players the leave the game but the game is designed to be so newbie unfriendly after lvl60 that the game never refill the people that is leaving. Basically, rigth now if the devs dont drastically change the design, the game will shut down much before their rigth time because the "flow" of people leaving is like 2x the people joining.
As I said on my previous post, if you really doubt what Im saying just try it yourself, just create a new account without any pack for mounts or companions, without the artifacts sigils unlocked and without AD for a ensorcelled weapon and try play the game as newbie do it. People play to have fun and this game is not fun at all if you are a newbie that has just level to 61.
Yep, have to totally agree with tomitar above. The grind from 61 to 70 is akin t being hugged by Thibbledorf Pwent while covered in fire ants, with Seth Rogen peeing on you. It is just a all around miserable experience.
The mobs are still hitting way too hard, the potions still do not heal you for nearly enough, the game is still WAY too grindy, with not nearly enough experience to move you along at a acceptable pace to keep interest.
FYI. And this is sorta a seperate topic. Did you know that the Well of Dragon missions award you a whopping 1500 xp per mission? Toughest zone in the game gives roughly the same xp per mission as the lowest level zones in the game.
Nobody in my guild would even believe me til they went and looked for themselves. That's just plain sad. (The experience, not people not believing me....People do that all the time :P )
The biggest problem by far now is that when you reach to lvl61 is like the game just slap you on the face, if you are a new player that you was enjoying the storyline as the DnD RPG this game used to be (yeah, past tense) you suddenly find out that you are playing a totally different game.
There is a name for this strategy in F2P games, and usually shows itself at end-game. I've seen it in other F2P MMOs, but this game's "ok, the free lunch is over" wake-up call is a bit more blatant.
IMO, many of the people with some sort of leadership alts were also paying customers and had been for some time now, including me. Taking that all that away was really risky, but it seems to be a long term strategy. Cull the freeloaders and paying players alike while the game is in a between mod phase low and hope mod 8 brings back new life.
I've always been a fan of the smaller average player micro-transactions. But this game has more of an all-or-nothing whale taxes at end game that hit you all at once and keep coming. But you have to wait till players hit end game to collect and they might not bite and you gained nothing. So you rely on your dedicated players for fees, but you changed the things the paying customers liked. So really the new players are just content for the paying players to either help or intimidate (feel superior to in some way) till the new ones pay or leave.
So I think all the nerfs (they are nerfs IMO) right before an expansion coming out is an "all the chips are on the table" gamble.
The "average" players AD earning potential has dropped to near nil now
How much is near nil / zero? 1k RAD? 3k? So the average player only has the potential to earn 3k RAD now? Or is "near nil" just relative to the huge amount that leadership armies were making?
So just a quick question for you guys. You know you can earn your full RAD reward from running non-epic dungeons, right?
Which should be a cake walk, even for a fresh 70. I went into ToS with a couple sub level 60 buddies the other day, and was able to clear the entire thing in 7 minutes, and got my full 3600 RAD reward. So if you do those two dungeons and some skirmishes, you should be easily earning a decent chunk of AD each day without investing a lot of time.
What about most normal people simply finding running the selfsame cheesecake-easy 10-15 minute thing dozens of times over again to earn their ingame too boring?
Not that LShip had been a thrilling blast of joy, but it'd been done in like 2 minutes/char... :^/
Also, what about the price restructuring they've been "looking into"???
...last thing they "looked into" I can remember (painfully) was the DH drop stealth nerf... ...which ofc also had been an anti-botting measure.
IMHO that was the pivotal point point where the relation started to chang from "fun>chores" (farming your RP where you wanted when you wanted) to "chores with a rare sprinkling of fun"...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,424Arc User
The "average" players AD earning potential has dropped to near nil now
How much is near nil / zero? 1k RAD? 3k? So the average player only has the potential to earn 3k RAD now? Or is "near nil" just relative to the huge amount that leadership armies were making?
One new character (way below 70) who can do invocation gets 3K rAD for doing that 5 times per day. Not sure where else this character can earn rAD easily on his own. Can "average" player do that 5 times per day?
I am not an "average" player and I could not do 5 times per day in certain day such as today.
EDIT: wait! A low level character probably won't even be able to get 3K rAD per day through invocation. They get a discounted reward, I think.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
So just a quick question for you guys. You know you can earn your full RAD reward from running non-epic dungeons, right?
Sure, but what made you change your mind? You used to actively tell others to make leadership armies for AD, and promoted and theorycrafted them.
In fact multiple moderators used to be big on leadership armies for AD.
Quite a loaded question there. Things changed, there's no more leadership ad armies to be profitable. To assume some other reason for no longer running leadership ad armies and promoting them is just weird.
Personally, I ran almost 30 characters each day doing leadership. The change has not negatively impacted my enjoyably of the game. On the contrary, it's allowed me to once again get back to having time to actually play my characters again instead of spending so much time working leadership.
There must be an increase in our ability to make RAD, period. The change on Leadership is great and all, but they NEED to actually reward people for doing stuff and not some pittiance of RAD. That grind for minimal RAD is driving me crazy. Increase the reward, make it a once a day reward. In PVP give a reward for winning and one for participation, maybe a bonus for score or stats. In Dungeons give a reward based on participation.
It seems the devs do not want people to have large amounts of currency.
It costs over 100k AD to make reinforcements. This needs reduced immediately.
The cost to respec is stupid. Allow us to respec for free or something close, maybe a future VIP perk.
I love the game, have been around for a while. I don't post much, don't need to. The RAD needs improvement.
Yeah, Zeb, we know how you play your chars. Your are more a roleplayer.
But good luck trying to actually progress in this game with current state.
Running the 3man non epic dungeons for pitty amounts of AD LOL You moderators and your genius ideas.
Can you pls get your balls out and admit that the solution for LS was half cooked and badly implementet? The adjustments for the AD nerf are coming when? Mod8?
Nothing in this game is actually worth doing so that you feel rewarded. In fact the game has become worse and worse… and that by intention. To force people who cant stand the brainless grind to pay realcash for some advancement.
What you guys praise as a fix for oeconomy is in truth just the radical execution of a business model called "Freemium".
Running pre70 dungeons for pitty ADs... Lololol… yep. You really know whats fun…
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Yeah, Zeb, we know how you play your chars. Your are more a roleplayer.
But good luck trying to actually progress in this game with current state.
Running the 3man non epic dungeons for pitty amounts of AD LOL You moderators and your genius ideas.
Can you pls get your balls out and admit that the solution for LS was half cooked and badly implementet? The adjustments for the AD nerf are coming when? Mod8?
Nothing in this game is actually worth doing so that you feel rewarded. In fact the game has become worse and worse… and that by intention. To force people who cant stand the brainless grind to pay realcash for some advancement.
What you guys praise as a fix for oeconomy is in truth just the radical execution of a business model called "Freemium".
Running pre70 dungeons for pitty ADs... Lololol… yep. You really know whats fun…
Instead of assuming such imparted idiocy, you should spend some time reading my post history. For if you did, you'd see I often disagree and speak my mind, whether negatively or positively, towards changes. I really am sick of seeing people say things like this, as though I don't have a mind of my own and blindly follow some hyperbolic "status-quo."
If you actually took the time to read my feedback on the changes, you'd see that while yes I did state acceptance and praises for the AD change... I also offered constructive criticism how many further changes need to be made to make this change acceptable in the long run. I did the same for LS changes.. I accepted the change but offered constructive criticism on adjustments to make it better.
The rest of this is a general statement to those bickering about Moderator opinions.
While yes I did state that I couldn't see how I wouldn't enjoy the game as much as I do if AD was removed from leadership, this was back in February for goodness' sake. Things change and I have a right to form my own opinions and change my mind. It was a freaking rabbit hole for me, the more I made off leadership, the more characters I made and eventually all my game time was spent doing leadership. Then, in June I was diagnosed with COPD, which was the answer to why I was feeling less and less energetic and had even less time to actually play the game.
Yet if I wanted to keep affording the things I wanted, I could only do so by running a Leadership Army and to do so, on top of my alt-o'holic addiction and deteriorating health, meant I had even less time to spend playing the game once I got done doing Leadership rounds. Now, with me devoting so much of my free time to managing my COPD, I continue to not have enough time to devote to a Leadership Army. So, yes it is a good thing that I cannot do that now even if I wanted to or could. Instead, when I do have the time to play the game, I can just play the game and not even give a thought to Leadership.
To criticize me or anyone for changing their minds, whether due to circumstance or evolving opinions, is quite arrogant and short-sighted. Things change, as do opinions. Folks should stop trying to find some tin foil conspiracy reasons where there are none. Change is natural. Accept it and move along.
I suggest folks stop attacking posters and opinions and instead offer their own constructive feedback, for bickering about who likes what and what not, does no good. It just drowns out actual feedback that can be used.
I can't read all I these post but fact is: I have 3 chars lev 70…spend some money, not too much My main char is below 3k GS With leadership I earned poor AD, I refuse to spend all day coordinating it by Handy nor like botting or anything nor buying from AD Sellers destroying the base of this game Running dungeons is easy money 3x24k AD in short time only by armor pieces + daily+invoking , so 100kAD is possible if you spend some hours playing On top VIP gives you one lockbox a day Call it luck or not , if you pick Embleme of seldarine and yesterday this axe bird its free to sell or keep I do progress faster as before Since pricedrop i could give my main a significant boost , upgraded tons of enchants I do feel a benefit for legit players atm
Instead of assuming such imparted idiocy, you should spend some time reading my post history. For if you did, you'd see I often disagree and speak my mind, whether negatively or positively, towards changes. I really am sick of seeing people say things like this, as though I don't have a mind of my own and blindly follow some hyperbolic "status-quo."
If you actually took the time to read my feedback on the changes, you'd see that while yes I did state acceptance and praises for the AD change... I also offered constructive criticism how many further changes need to be made to make this change acceptable in the long run. I did the same for LS changes.. I accepted the change but offered constructive criticism on adjustments to make it better.
Furthermore, the rest is as a general statement to those bickering about Moderator opinions, while yes I did state that I couldn't see how I wouldn't enjoy the game as much as I do if AD was removed from leadership, this was back in February for goodness sakes. Things change and I have a right to form my own opinions and change my mind. It was a freaking rabbit hole for me, the more I made off leadership, the more characters I made and eventually all my game time was spent doing leadership. Then, in June I was diagnosed with COPD, which was the answer to why I was feeling less and less energetic and had even less time to actually play the game. Yet if I wanted to keep affording the things I wanted, I could only do so by running a Leadership Army and to do so, on top of my alt-o'holic addiction and deteriorating health, meant I had even less time to spend playing the game once I got done doing Leadership rounds.
To criticize me or anyone for changing their minds, whether due to circumstance or evolving opinions, is quite arrogant and short-sighted. Things change, as do opinions. Folks should stop trying to find some tin foil conspiracy reasons where there are none. Change is natural. Accept it and move along.
I suggest folks stop attacking posters and opinions and instead offer their own constructive feedback, for bickering about who likes what and what not, does no good. It just drowns out actual feedback that can be used.
I think, that ppl are upset, when other ppl defend changes that clearly are not done right.
Fact is, that they implemented the LS changes and that was it for the moment. After bleeding players and dozends of pages full of critizism, they implemented the GMOP changes, to little and late.
They tell us, that we could make more AD playing the game now, when simple math shows otherwise.
They promise further changes and thats the answer to all the valid critizism, but there is not one concrete statement concerning the changes. There are dozends, if not hundreds of posts with different suggestions and with elaborate lists of needed/ prefered changes, stronghold AD sink one of the most pressing imo.
The removal of LS AD in combination with lowered costs, income by playing the game and the removal of AD sinks would have been great. This is a half baked brain child, that needs some serious tuning, to make it presentable.
I know, that you guys try to see the good in these changes and you try to make others see them, too. But if ppl think, that you are painting a bright picture and skipping the ugly part, they might be inclined to do the same and ignore the good idea behind these changes and just see the flawed execution, concentrating their reaction on these mistakes and venting their anger.
Quite a loaded question there. Things changed, there's no more leadership ad armies to be profitable. To assume some other reason for no longer running leadership ad armies and promoting them is just weird.
Personally, I ran almost 30 characters each day doing leadership. The change has not negatively impacted my enjoyably of the game. On the contrary, it's allowed me to once again get back to having time to actually play my characters again instead of spending so much time working leadership.
It's not a loaded question, it's a direct one since it's addressing a 180.
You have said you don't have time to spend ingame to afford things, and that leadership AD gave you greater enjoyment ingame:
Leadership took maybe a minute or two per character, so it wasn't detracting from anyone's time in actually playing the characters. People aren't making more AD in the new system, they are making the same AD they always could with a character. Anyone including you could have made that same AD in the old system with your toons if you actually played them back then.
With the whole AD kerfluffle, you were obviously not alone in having greater enjoyment of the game with leadership granted AD.
In any event, this is why people are mad. It wasn't a turning down the dial gradually to zero, it was just cut off. People were encouraged by moderators to run leadership armies specifically for the point of making AD. Newbies would come to the forums and see theorycrafting leadership AD coming from someone with a green moderator title, it carries weight.
I'm perfectly fine with my ~ iLVL 2000 toons as I don't feel a need to be BiS. But then again I was spending on cosmetics, promoting Foundry, and other stuff that didn't raise my characters power. Now, I'm not spending on anything.
I wasted five million AD promoting the Foundry.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Quite a loaded question there. Things changed, there's no more leadership ad armies to be profitable. To assume some other reason for no longer running leadership ad armies and promoting them is just weird.
Personally, I ran almost 30 characters each day doing leadership. The change has not negatively impacted my enjoyably of the game. On the contrary, it's allowed me to once again get back to having time to actually play my characters again instead of spending so much time working leadership.
It's not a loaded question, it's a direct one since it's addressing a 180.
You have said you don't have time to spend ingame to afford things, and that leadership AD gave you greater enjoyment ingame:
Leadership took maybe a minute or two per character, so it wasn't detracting from anyone's time in actually playing the characters. People aren't making more AD in the new system, they are making the same AD they always could with a character. Anyone including you could have made that same AD in the old system with your toons if you actually played them back then.
A "180" from almost EIGHT MONTHS ago, where a lot has changed both in game and out. See my reply above, for holding me to an opinion from nearly a year ago is quite absurd. As well, it was more like 15 minutes per character for me, as I didn't just sit and click professions then switch. I took time to do little things, like invoking, mail, grabbing dailies from various zones, chatting, and other organization things while on each character. Then add me needing to take care of real life issues inbetween... it could sometimes take me an hour or two just to get through all my characters
Wow. I just read most of these posts. You guys don't sound like you're playing a game.. you sound like you're dabbling in the stock market.
To play Neverwinter, lesson #1, figure out how to finance the hero.
This is the troof. Post 70, you can't progress your gear through just drops alone after a certain point. The game is too stingy, and the cash-shop alternatives are ridiculously overvalued right now because they haven't scaled to new mod 6 refinement point requirements. So you have to be somewhat AD-focused if you want to upgrade.
So just a quick question for you guys. You know you can earn your full RAD reward from running non-epic dungeons, right?
Oh yeah. But if you can grind that dungeon every day, several times a day, maybe on multiple alts, you got more will power then me now. I can't even look at it. If I go in ToS one more time, the Drow priestesses are gonna kidnap me and make me a permanent NPC in there.
I'm sure cryptic had their reasons for removing the AD events and the AD Rix quests (including foundry), the Lord Protector quests. But it did add a bit more variety and more AD for your clicks. The alternative now is condensed anti-fun IMO. Twice the time at half the pay. There was still the 24k rad limit, so I don't see why it needed to get changed.
Folks should stop trying to find some tin foil conspiracy reasons where there are none. Change is natural. Accept it and move along.
I do agree change is natural, but I also think that the drastic actions we've seen lately with respect to the explanations we're given have feed the air of staunch skepticism (with a couple dashes of pessimism to taste) in this game[forum] lately.
When all the mods were previously talking about and advising people to get leadership armies, and even theorycrafting them, and now they are all talking about how great the new system is despite the huge player outcry (judging by how long the allowed thread on the subject, and how many other threads got locked, and the general vitriol level over it), it leads people to believe the community mods are not representing the players as they claim to. That hurts the game because it hurts the mods credibility, turns the forums, and thus shortens the game's life.
Comments
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/554255/the-positives-of-the-leadership-changes
But half a year later, ad army is an evil thing from same mouths
Words are cheap
Seems they are agree every single change in game.
"We are represent players"
Lmao
The people that defend the current state of the games and changes they made are the ones that they have already all that they need, but if you are a new player and you dont have any of that you are just not going to make it unless you pay real money. When ive started playing this game at the end of Mod2 I could recommend it to any of my friends (I actually did) but rigth now you really have to hate someone if you tell him that this is game to give a chance.
Just check the steam charts:
http://steamcharts.com/app/109600
The game lost about 33% of the playerbase from the month before M6 to the month before M7 (33% on 4 months, ouch). You always get peak of players that try the new content during the launch of the new mods, but the problem is that the peak of players that returned when they launched the M7 was of 362 average and inmediatly after that month they already lost 483 and keep dropping. I know that those statistics are from the people that use the steam launcher only, but if you say that in term of percent that isn't representative of the actual situation you are just lying urself or you are not logging and checking your own friend list empty.
- gmops (25% of orig) for up to rank 10
- various RP stuff on AH is, on average, less than before (resonance stones are 1/2 price, R4 and R5 have dropped but rebounded lately probably due to changes to Ghost Stories)
- CWards and PWards are tied to zen, so prices for those are down
- many various mounts, companions, bags, profession assets and equipment on AH (available in zen store or not) have dropped in price
The average player doesn't have upgrading companion / mount, best armor kits, or unlocking MH/OH powers as their priority. I DO believe that the AD requirements for SH upgrades and feats respec should come down though. But many? I guess it depends on your definition of many, but regardless of that, it is still relatively few compared to all the stuff that did come down in price
The Neverwinter D&D IP and the expansion into consoles will keep this game here for awhile. The revenue generating systems are already in place, no real innovation, they are the same as any other MMORPG. But because of the name association, even if they keep making it unfavorable for players, itll still attract new blood.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Get a OP or a faithful DC, slot a blacksmith and a renegade evoker and watch the DDs killing themself. The SW dares to move, get your cockatrice and beat him to pulp, while he is rooted. You dont want to get CCed and you dont want to lose the DR from your Tnegation, sylph, will o wisp and cankerous mage are your friends. For just 5 million ADs you can reflect dmg or CC or be tanky as you want with the right companions. Wait, you are a new player and you dont want to spent all the ADs you earn in 4 month on PvP specific companions, well, thats to bad.
Sadly dude, your scenario assumes that BiS gear remains unchanged.
The new player you reference will never reach BiS gear level, because PWE has shown a propensity for moving the target when too many f2p types get close to the Promised Land.
The price drop might be a good thing....IF..a huge IF they normalize AD earning ability. So you lopped off a few 0's from gmops etc....you lopped off the 0's and the 1-9s of AD earning with the exception of very few tasks like grinding a limited number available dungeons/skirmish/pvp, if you don't conform to that mode you get zilch. How many players don't like one or more of those play modes? Many, oh so sorry... soup HAMSTER:NO SOUP (AD) FOR YOU!
As to other AD sinks in this game, every last single one of them should go away, they are unjustifiable now, they were put in to drain off the "excess" AD, ther aren't any "excess" now being earned.
As to the prices coming down on the AH so "average" players can "afford" them, 2 problems with that:
1.The "average" players AD earning potential has dropped to near nil now, the "average" player still can't buy the stuff now, he can look enviously at it yes, but he hasn't the AD to put together to buy it, despite the price falling.Just because the prices of goods drop during a depression, it don't mean you have the currency to take advantage of the lower prices, during a depression the only one that gets ahead are the rich people that are liquid enough to take advantage of the low prices.
2.The prices haven't fallen because "benevolent" Cryptic cared for the "average" player to get it, the prices have fallen because currently there is a fire sale going on, everyone's AD generation has fallen, they want either the Zen to get VIP, so they are selling off their stock at reduced prices to get the AD to do so, or they had invested in "alternate" currencies and with the Bazaar's pricing restructure have to liquidate what they have before it's totally worthless.
Which should be a cake walk, even for a fresh 70. I went into ToS with a couple sub level 60 buddies the other day, and was able to clear the entire thing in 7 minutes, and got my full 3600 RAD reward. So if you do those two dungeons and some skirmishes, you should be easily earning a decent chunk of AD each day without investing a lot of time.
This thread is about how much life remaining has this game and in my opinion the problem is not just how much AD you can make, the main problem is that a game will never stay alive if you dont get a "flow" of new players. Rigth now we have just the players the leave the game but the game is designed to be so newbie unfriendly after lvl60 that the game never refill the people that is leaving. Basically, rigth now if the devs dont drastically change the design, the game will shut down much before their rigth time because the "flow" of people leaving is like 2x the people joining.
As I said on my previous post, if you really doubt what Im saying just try it yourself, just create a new account without any pack for mounts or companions, without the artifacts sigils unlocked and without AD for a ensorcelled weapon and try play the game as newbie do it. People play to have fun and this game is not fun at all if you are a newbie that has just level to 61.
The mobs are still hitting way too hard, the potions still do not heal you for nearly enough, the game is still WAY too grindy, with not nearly enough experience to move you along at a acceptable pace to keep interest.
FYI. And this is sorta a seperate topic. Did you know that the Well of Dragon missions award you a whopping 1500 xp per mission? Toughest zone in the game gives roughly the same xp per mission as the lowest level zones in the game.
Nobody in my guild would even believe me til they went and looked for themselves. That's just plain sad. (The experience, not people not believing me....People do that all the time :P )
I've seen it in other F2P MMOs, but this game's "ok, the free lunch is over" wake-up call is a bit more blatant.
IMO, many of the people with some sort of leadership alts were also paying customers and had been for some time now, including me. Taking that all that away was really risky, but it seems to be a long term strategy. Cull the freeloaders and paying players alike while the game is in a between mod phase low and hope mod 8 brings back new life.
I've always been a fan of the smaller average player micro-transactions. But this game has more of an all-or-nothing whale taxes at end game that hit you all at once and keep coming. But you have to wait till players hit end game to collect and they might not bite and you gained nothing. So you rely on your dedicated players for fees, but you changed the things the paying customers liked. So really the new players are just content for the paying players to either help or intimidate (feel superior to in some way) till the new ones pay or leave.
So I think all the nerfs (they are nerfs IMO) right before an expansion coming out is an "all the chips are on the table" gamble.
Not that LShip had been a thrilling blast of joy, but it'd been done in like 2 minutes/char... :^/
Also, what about the price restructuring they've been "looking into"???
...last thing they "looked into" I can remember (painfully) was the DH drop stealth nerf... ...which ofc also had been an anti-botting measure.
IMHO that was the pivotal point point where the relation started to chang from "fun>chores" (farming your RP where you wanted when you wanted) to "chores with a rare sprinkling of fun"...
I am not an "average" player and I could not do 5 times per day in certain day such as today.
EDIT: wait! A low level character probably won't even be able to get 3K rAD per day through invocation. They get a discounted reward, I think.
In fact multiple moderators used to be big on leadership armies for AD.
Personally, I ran almost 30 characters each day doing leadership. The change has not negatively impacted my enjoyably of the game. On the contrary, it's allowed me to once again get back to having time to actually play my characters again instead of spending so much time working leadership.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
It seems the devs do not want people to have large amounts of currency.
It costs over 100k AD to make reinforcements. This needs reduced immediately.
The cost to respec is stupid. Allow us to respec for free or something close, maybe a future VIP perk.
I love the game, have been around for a while. I don't post much, don't need to. The RAD needs improvement.
Thanks for the hard work.
But good luck trying to actually progress in this game with current state.
Running the 3man non epic dungeons for pitty amounts of AD LOL
You moderators and your genius ideas.
Can you pls get your balls out and admit that the solution for LS was half cooked and badly implementet? The adjustments for the AD nerf are coming when? Mod8?
Nothing in this game is actually worth doing so that you feel rewarded. In fact the game has become worse and worse… and that by intention. To force people who cant stand the brainless grind to pay realcash for some advancement.
What you guys praise as a fix for oeconomy is in truth just the radical execution of a business model called "Freemium".
Running pre70 dungeons for pitty ADs... Lololol… yep. You really know whats fun…
If you actually took the time to read my feedback on the changes, you'd see that while yes I did state acceptance and praises for the AD change... I also offered constructive criticism how many further changes need to be made to make this change acceptable in the long run. I did the same for LS changes.. I accepted the change but offered constructive criticism on adjustments to make it better.
The rest of this is a general statement to those bickering about Moderator opinions.
While yes I did state that I couldn't see how I wouldn't enjoy the game as much as I do if AD was removed from leadership, this was back in February for goodness' sake. Things change and I have a right to form my own opinions and change my mind. It was a freaking rabbit hole for me, the more I made off leadership, the more characters I made and eventually all my game time was spent doing leadership. Then, in June I was diagnosed with COPD, which was the answer to why I was feeling less and less energetic and had even less time to actually play the game.
Yet if I wanted to keep affording the things I wanted, I could only do so by running a Leadership Army and to do so, on top of my alt-o'holic addiction and deteriorating health, meant I had even less time to spend playing the game once I got done doing Leadership rounds. Now, with me devoting so much of my free time to managing my COPD, I continue to not have enough time to devote to a Leadership Army. So, yes it is a good thing that I cannot do that now even if I wanted to or could. Instead, when I do have the time to play the game, I can just play the game and not even give a thought to Leadership.
To criticize me or anyone for changing their minds, whether due to circumstance or evolving opinions, is quite arrogant and short-sighted. Things change, as do opinions. Folks should stop trying to find some tin foil conspiracy reasons where there are none. Change is natural. Accept it and move along.
I suggest folks stop attacking posters and opinions and instead offer their own constructive feedback, for bickering about who likes what and what not, does no good. It just drowns out actual feedback that can be used.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
My main char is below 3k GS
With leadership I earned poor AD, I refuse to spend all day coordinating it by Handy nor like botting or anything nor buying from AD Sellers destroying the base of this game
Running dungeons is easy money 3x24k AD in short time only by armor pieces + daily+invoking , so 100kAD is possible if you spend some hours playing
On top VIP gives you one lockbox a day
Call it luck or not , if you pick Embleme of seldarine and yesterday this axe bird its free to sell or keep
I do progress faster as before
Since pricedrop i could give my main a significant boost , upgraded tons of enchants
I do feel a benefit for legit players atm
Fact is, that they implemented the LS changes and that was it for the moment. After bleeding players and dozends of pages full of critizism, they implemented the GMOP changes, to little and late.
They tell us, that we could make more AD playing the game now, when simple math shows otherwise.
They promise further changes and thats the answer to all the valid critizism, but there is not one concrete statement concerning the changes. There are dozends, if not hundreds of posts with different suggestions and with elaborate lists of needed/ prefered changes, stronghold AD sink one of the most pressing imo.
The removal of LS AD in combination with lowered costs, income by playing the game and the removal of AD sinks would have been great. This is a half baked brain child, that needs some serious tuning, to make it presentable.
I know, that you guys try to see the good in these changes and you try to make others see them, too. But if ppl think, that you are painting a bright picture and skipping the ugly part, they might be inclined to do the same and ignore the good idea behind these changes and just see the flawed execution, concentrating their reaction on these mistakes and venting their anger.
You have said you don't have time to spend ingame to afford things, and that leadership AD gave you greater enjoyment ingame:
Leadership took maybe a minute or two per character, so it wasn't detracting from anyone's time in actually playing the characters. People aren't making more AD in the new system, they are making the same AD they always could with a character. Anyone including you could have made that same AD in the old system with your toons if you actually played them back then.
With the whole AD kerfluffle, you were obviously not alone in having greater enjoyment of the game with leadership granted AD.
In any event, this is why people are mad. It wasn't a turning down the dial gradually to zero, it was just cut off. People were encouraged by moderators to run leadership armies specifically for the point of making AD. Newbies would come to the forums and see theorycrafting leadership AD coming from someone with a green moderator title, it carries weight.
I'm perfectly fine with my ~ iLVL 2000 toons as I don't feel a need to be BiS. But then again I was spending on cosmetics, promoting Foundry, and other stuff that didn't raise my characters power. Now, I'm not spending on anything.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Post 70, you can't progress your gear through just drops alone after a certain point. The game is too stingy, and the cash-shop alternatives are ridiculously overvalued right now because they haven't scaled to new mod 6 refinement point requirements. So you have to be somewhat AD-focused if you want to upgrade. Oh yeah. But if you can grind that dungeon every day, several times a day, maybe on multiple alts, you got more will power then me now. I can't even look at it. If I go in ToS one more time, the Drow priestesses are gonna kidnap me and make me a permanent NPC in there.
I'm sure cryptic had their reasons for removing the AD events and the AD Rix quests (including foundry), the Lord Protector quests. But it did add a bit more variety and more AD for your clicks. The alternative now is condensed anti-fun IMO. Twice the time at half the pay. There was still the 24k rad limit, so I don't see why it needed to get changed. I do agree change is natural, but I also think that the drastic actions we've seen lately with respect to the explanations we're given have feed the air of staunch skepticism (with a couple dashes of pessimism to taste) in this game[forum] lately.