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Should the disheartening strike pvp nerf be revisited?
hedgebet
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
So I was parsing some SH pvp so that I could better gauge just what kills me because of the difficulty determining it with the constant rubber-banding lag I tend to experience there. I noticed some interesting things and wondered if the nerf to disheartening strike should be undone since it was introduced in a different era.
I noticed from my parses that a pally can hit me four times a second with aura of courage and the average hit will be significantly higher than DHS (not sure if that is a bug at 4 a sec or just what). A DC can hit me once a second with FotG and again the average is higher than DHS. HR hit me once a second with thorned roots and the damage from it is much higher than DHS ever was even before the nerf -- and there is that nasty other business of thorned roots as well. I realize DHS is a fire and forget at will but even still I think the nerf should be undone or adjusted with a damage maximum in the event that they are worried about Shadowborn + First Strike (which is what I think was the original reason for the nerf in the first place).
With the increased likelihood of death from avalanche and the fact of the above indicated attacks of other classes (and I am sure there are more than just those) I think the nerf is out dated and certainly needs to be reconsidered.
Thoughts?
I noticed from my parses that a pally can hit me four times a second with aura of courage and the average hit will be significantly higher than DHS (not sure if that is a bug at 4 a sec or just what). A DC can hit me once a second with FotG and again the average is higher than DHS. HR hit me once a second with thorned roots and the damage from it is much higher than DHS ever was even before the nerf -- and there is that nasty other business of thorned roots as well. I realize DHS is a fire and forget at will but even still I think the nerf should be undone or adjusted with a damage maximum in the event that they are worried about Shadowborn + First Strike (which is what I think was the original reason for the nerf in the first place).
With the increased likelihood of death from avalanche and the fact of the above indicated attacks of other classes (and I am sure there are more than just those) I think the nerf is out dated and certainly needs to be reconsidered.
Thoughts?
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Comments
Lord knows that if that ever happens life is going to be so easy for us WKs, but way back when us WK players strongly recommended a nerf to DHS to the devs (and they actually responded fast and listened in those days!!), it was the right thing to do.
If DHS damage is 'normalized' for PvP then even my low-power DHS would probably tick for around 2~3k vs. heavily armoured classes, and 4~5k vs. lightly armoured.
People with DHS-centered build usually do around twice~three times my DHS damage, so that means even against heavy tanks they'd be hitting for like 5~6k per tick, and almost 7~8k against lightly armoured.
It's not our DHS which is too weak. I'd maybe accept a slight.. 10~15% damage increase for PvP, but a full 'normalization' IMO is just too much.
Rather, stuff like Trapper Thorned Roots or DC DoTs are the ones that are doing too much damage. These should be nerfed down to TR DHS level, not our DHS which should be 'uplifted' to theirs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I am not currently a power heavy build and my DHS is averaging about 750 a tick. With the great risk of avalanche it is not worth it and I have a much higher average with CoS than DHS. I really think it should only add a counter to avalanche on the first hit and then it might have a use, but being less than CoS it currently isn't. If I were hitting even 1k with it I would feel it fine (again with a one hit limit to avalanche count). I know the original DHS had to be addressed but again it was more from particular cases that were meant to be bonuses (first strike, shadowborn, crit from stealth) that caused the greatest need for the adjustment to DHS and if not for these 'bonuses' I would be that DHS would not have warranted the nerf (or as much of) and would actually be viable for a lower power build such as mine.
Mainly I am growing increasingly annoyed with this mess that is SHPvP and being unable to melee (since apparently I am never where I think I am and my enemy isn't either) I have been trying to utilize ranged tactics more but then lacking the power I am actually taking more damage from avalanche/etc than I dish out. If I attack say an OP guarding a depot I will die, but if I attack the depot and ignore the OP while he attacks me I am generally fine (to a point or enough that it isn't any concern that cannot be effectively handled). It just seems weird.
It will bleed you put like a cut to the arteries.
The only classes that can stop DHS by itself are DCs and HRs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Disheartening Strike ticks 11 times over 15 seconds. So 5K DHS means 55K damage. I've put 5~8K DHS on TRs going into stealth, and later from halfway across the field a message would say X player was rekt by Snowman.
DHS deals damage 11 times ( 1x initial hit + 10 x DoT ticks ), in 1.5 second intervals for 15 seconds.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
^ Inspected the guy he's not pug.
Well in a situation like that I never had the annoyance I was speaking of, it was in the cases where the fight was drawn out with multiple adversaries and it wasn't so much of cat and mouse type play.
I like to mix it up too much and I often waste my shadowborn on a flurry bleed or I have a dhs on more than one target and heck I have even spent it on avalanche and feythistle -- but you know what I mean about how it can be used up without contributing to any increase in the efficacy of the attack that uses it. I am not a panicky player but I am not deliberate enough to utilize Shadowborn effectively due to how many ways you can just simply blow it on nothing. I always find myself pressing when I know absolutely that I should withdraw and too often I get caught up in the fun and play with my heart and not my head.
I wish it actually worked on my 'next' attack and not on an attack that I enacted some time ago or on a passive. I know some think that would be too easy but I don't see any other class having to juggle as much as the rogue when considering how our feats work. It is likely more of a playstyle issue with me where I am not quite suited to that style.
i would rather buff hard vengeance pursuit. Like 2s stealth after the stun + 20% increased deflect for the next 4 seconds.
Yes, it is a smart and preferable thing to pay attention to conditional buffs like Shadowborn and/or First Strike, but if its too difficult to keep it up during hard combat, then don't get too caught up by it.
Like, if I see an opportunity where I can land an extra CC that would be greatly in favor of my flow of combat, but if I wait out 3 more seconds then I can make use of extra buffs to go with it, then I'd rather cash in at something that will immediately secure me an advantage, than to unnecessarily risk something going wrong during those 3 seconds of non-action.
For me, conditional buffs are mostly for the initial alpha-strikes and set-up moves. Once in all-out brawl, then its best to see what's coming for me right around the corner than to worry about what's 2 miles away from me.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'