Serious question to devs/Cryptic Employees et al.

seventhpillar

I have been playing for a long time, May 2013 to be precise, when I started my first account to try it out, then made this actual account after liking the gameplay. Back them everything was good, nothing was bound until equipped and I get a coal ward almost every other week. It was amazing. Fast forward to now, things are a complete 180 and everything is a massive grind.

Now for the question. Do any of you really play the game?

The reason I ask this is because as with any other business, if they make a product, they stand by it. They use it. It shows two things, 1. If the product is good, there is no reason for you to not use it and 2. If you use it, it means you stand by your product, meaning you wouldn't force people to do/use something that you yourself are not willing to do/use.


If the answer is yes, can you please give us a synopsis on how you feel about the game's progression and the massive requirements for it.

If no, perhaps you should consider playing it, and using that to make future changes to the game instead of being a game weatherman forcasting what the changes will bring.

No bash intended just want to know.

kreatyve

I do believe that several of the devs have stated many times on the dev live streams that they do play the game. I don't remember names, and I don't have @handles of course, but I do know that at least some of them play the game in their off-hours.

sorce

Pretty sure Panderus plays, and like Kreatyve mentioned, quite a few have said on live streams and in the forums that they play.

seventhpillar

OK, when you say play, what does that equate to? 1 hr/day etc? How far have they progressed? I want to understand. Because if I was a developer, I would play this religeously and use my own experience to fine tune it. If I run a dungeon and saw people are exploiting things, I can easily patch it next time. If I see bots running around, I can make note and investigate further. I mean yes your job is coding but to see and use it not only makes your job easy but you are in touch with the community.

mynaam

I think the real question is do they have paid beta testers that play this game as a job. If a developer says they play it does not mean they play it like most of us. Having seen the streams it is pretty obvious that those guys have no clue what they are doing(no offense intended).

Do they actually spend real money in the game feed their alts with the now impossible to get AD .

rapo973

kreatyve said:

I do believe that several of the devs have stated many times on the dev live streams that they do play the game. I don't remember names, and I don't have @handles of course, but I do know that at least some of them play the game in their off-hours.

That means that all the changes are a rational choice supported by the real game experience and not the result of a brainstorming session. But i dont' think this is the point. IMO DEVs have no responsibility: they implement decisions taken elsewhere.

What's going on is the implementation not of a better game experience, but of clear and brainless business policies.
The policy is the following:
- This game is for business, it's a huge investment from PWE and must be remunerated- That's ok, normal life
- To get $, players must be pushed to buy Zen -
- Force the players to buy Zen if they want to progress. and that's the points.

But:

Strategy: Do everything possible to dramaticaly decrease/destroy the Astral Diamond market. Bots are only a piece of the problem. The problem is that players can gain too many ADs without buying ZEN = no $ and that's the failure of the policy.
Actions:
- Everything is now BoP; you cannot sell it
- No AD from leadership/gateway
- Decrease the overall amount of AD generated by PVE/PVP quest
- Refinement stone BoP
- No farming zone (day by day, they are less and less)
- DG rewards are not enough to buy another DG key without losing AD. You've just 1 DG key/day
- Foundry completely reworked.
- ....and more to come.

In few words ADs are a boomerang from the business perspective.

But from the player's perspective:
- For some years the game allowed the generation of AD instead of buying Zen. Many players were happy, because they can progress without $ or few $. Now it's no longer possible and it's percieved as a restriction in the game experience and why? (next point)
The only alternative is the zen market. You open the zen market and you discover:
- Companions: almost nothing vaulable, but ioun stone and few others
- Fashion: I don't care and it's too expensive
- Lockbox keys: very exepensive and most of the times the lockbox give you pure garbage (I'm pleny of RK 7 enchantements and companion kits, no value at all).
- Refinement: SO MANY ZEN FOR A RUBY WICH GIVES YOU 50K RPs? Are you crazy man?
- XP: too expensive, no value.
- Mount: I buy 1 only in the best case.

In few word the value of the ZEN market is close to ZERO. I've bought many times the lockbox key with to hope to find something valuable. That's a loosing game because it works like a casino or slot machine: designed to make you lose.
Even the keys from the VIP are a disaster: they are not normal keys. They don't give you any TARALUME as the keys from the zen market. ARE YOU FOOLING ME?

Finally, AD market destroyed for many legit players, no value from the zen market and bad game experience.
For the first time after 2 years, I got bored and quit the after 1 hour.
Can you see the future better now?

Great game destroyed by insane strategy and low value for the customer.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

hypnoticbeast

Remember Devs have lives to ya know. What I think is going on is a lot of players lost touch with doing exactly THAT playing. It became about being the best the fastest way you can for the sole reason of bragging rights. Remember the game is now on the Xbox One. And PvP in THAT area is way way worse then here in PC land. So they put a stop now before things go waaaay out of hand with console players, and you know how they are at finding ways to break a game. I still think that they have something up there sleeve. But on the flip side I think the Devs have lost a little bit of that content brainstorming imaginative coolness that makes gamer's of 35+ years like myself say Dude that's cool!! I need as a player and paying customer more then a "You are not playing the game the way we want you too enough, so we have come up with a way to make you". OK? My question is why was that "DATA" you where looking at so important? Why was THAT DATA what was so needing to be looked at? All of the OTHER content skirmish. dungeons est. est. had been pulled and a high level player has three dungeons and one skirmish leaving only PvP. PvP that needs gear so hard to get its almost not worth getting. So we need an explanation not an excuse. Are there changes ahead and so what are they and how soon will they be getting here? Keep your players in the loop. You say AD represents time OK I can get behind that. Now let's compare "AD Time" to real time and I will show what I mean. EXMPL. Say you got a green lvl 1 mount free from a event. Great now you want put some speed under the hood, well that will cost you 600,000 AD that comes out to 25 days of running 8 hours of the same three dungeons and one skirmish that high level players have. Players under 60 will still be playing story quests but they can get old too. So again Why is there A NEED FOR THE DEVS TO HAVE US PLAY "THIS" WAY! 25 days? I have work, my wife, two kids, ya know a "family" Why not Make it 100,000 AD and 250,000 AD is a more realistic view of "Time Spent In game" that comes out 17 days for a full upgrade mount. That's doable and not only that it's doable for all of the lvl one ZEN mounts as well that will get more people playing AND spending at the same time. Think about ways to bridge that gap between whale and dolphin you keep more players happy and make money as well. But someone needs to start talking to us more, this tight lipped stuff fays people nerves

fdsakhfduewhfiuf

rapo973 said:

Even the keys from the VIP are a disaster: they are not normal keys. They don't give you any TARALUME as the keys from the zen market. ARE YOU FOOLING ME?

Well, I get Tarmalune trade bars from lockboxes opened with VIP keys.

gogu79

rapo973 said:

kreatyve said:

I do believe that several of the devs have stated many times on the dev live streams that they do play the game. I don't remember names, and I don't have @handles of course, but I do know that at least some of them play the game in their off-hours.

That means that all the changes are a rational choice supported by the real game experience and not the result of a brainstorming session. But i dont' think this is the point. IMO DEVs have no responsibility: they implement decisions taken elsewhere.

What's going on is the implementation not of a better game experience, but of clear and brainless business policies.
The policy is the following:
- This game is for business, it's a huge investment from PWE and must be remunerated- That's ok, normal life
- To get $, players must be pushed to buy Zen -
- Force the players to buy Zen if they want to progress. and that's the points.

But:

Strategy: Do everything possible to dramaticaly decrease/destroy the Astral Diamond market. Bots are only a piece of the problem. The problem is that players can gain too many ADs without buying ZEN = no $ and that's the failure of the policy.
Actions:
- Everything is now BoP; you cannot sell it
- No AD from leadership/gateway
- Decrease the overall amount of AD generated by PVE/PVP quest
- Refinement stone BoP
- No farming zone (day by day, they are less and less)
- DG rewards are not enough to buy another DG key without losing AD. You've just 1 DG key/day
- Foundry completely reworked.
- ....and more to come.

In few words ADs are a boomerang from the business perspective.

But from the player's perspective:
- For some years the game allowed the generation of AD instead of buying Zen. Many players were happy, because they can progress without $ or few $. Now it's no longer possible and it's percieved as a restriction in the game experience and why? (next point)
The only alternative is the zen market. You open the zen market and you discover:
- Companions: almost nothing vaulable, but ioun stone and few others
- Fashion: I don't care and it's too expensive
- Lockbox keys: very exepensive and most of the times the lockbox give you pure garbage (I'm pleny of RK 7 enchantements and companion kits, no value at all).
- Refinement: SO MANY ZEN FOR A RUBY WICH GIVES YOU 50K RPs? Are you crazy man?
- XP: too expensive, no value.
- Mount: I buy 1 only in the best case.

In few word the value of the ZEN market is close to ZERO. I've bought many times the lockbox key with to hope to find something valuable. That's a loosing game because it works like a casino or slot machine: designed to make you lose.
Even the keys from the VIP are a disaster: they are not normal keys. They don't give you any TARALUME as the keys from the zen market. ARE YOU FOOLING ME?

Finally, AD market destroyed for many legit players, no value from the zen market and bad game experience.
For the first time after 2 years, I got bored and quit the after 1 hour.
Can you see the future better now?

Great game destroyed by insane strategy and low value for the customer.

good job man ! devs should read and read again this is pure true of what happend now with newerwinter great game but soon dead

seventhpillar

hypnoticbeast said:

Remember Devs have lives to ya know.
...snip...

Well in that case, perhaps devs need to also remember as players, we have lives as well and we cannot just sit in front of the computer and play the game all day everyday. I have no problem spending money, I have done so. But come on, do you really think this is micro transactions?

Let's look at it this way, if the zen shop was adjusted to where everything is single purchase and no item is account bound with max price of $5 for items like mount and maybe $2 for companions and $1 for items like re-spec tokens, coalward and such, $0.50 for normal wards, I bet they will make more money from users. Because users will look at that and say, OK, why should I bot or buy from bot farmers when the fee is acceptable. Yeah I can probably skip on buying a soda, candy bar or what not and spend that on the game. With many users thinking this way, it will encourage buying/spending in game, because the price is nominal for virtual items. I don't think anyone would even think twice if they feel they need the item.

People will buy respec tokens in bulk and encourage experimenting with skills instead of using cookie cutter builds and I bet when users have this sense of freedom and feel good about playing to where they are not milked out of their pockets, then they might even promote this to their friends and such. But at the rate of things now, you really think someone will recommend this to anyone?

Good that AD/zen price is going down but the fact of the matter is, a lot of things are still fixed priced and insanely set too high that will be attractive to anyone with the right mind. In fact, as AD become scarce, zen value will go down as well and your money doesn't stretch as far.


Again if prices were set to real micro purchases, players will spend more as their time is more important. At the current state, their time is important but not that important that they will spend their money on the game vs spending it on their families or bills.

It's not too late yet but it's close. It feels like one more bad decision after this, then it's game over for most.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

dillygirl

rapo973 said:

Even the keys from the VIP are a disaster: they are not normal keys. They don't give you any TARALUME as the keys from the zen market. ARE YOU FOOLING ME?

I did not know this! Thanks for mentioning it. I was thinking about getting vip, but since the AD change I have put that on hold (Even though I got a 15% off coupon twice in the past 3 days). This makes it less likely for me to buy VIP - like you said, it is very rare to get good stuff from the chests and I always saw the few Tarmalune Trade Bars you 'd get from it as a way to save up to get something nice from the vendor. VIP keys not awarding them is weird, and makes them worth less to me.

matthiasthehun76

seventhpillar said:

I have been playing for a long time, May 2013 to be precise, when I started my first account to try it out, then made this actual account after liking the gameplay. Back them everything was good, nothing was bound until equipped and I get a coal ward almost every other week. It was amazing. Fast forward to now, things are a complete 180 and everything is a massive grind.

Now for the question. Do any of you really play the game?

The reason I ask this is because as with any other business, if they make a product, they stand by it. They use it. It shows two things, 1. If the product is good, there is no reason for you to not use it and 2. If you use it, it means you stand by your product, meaning you wouldn't force people to do/use something that you yourself are not willing to do/use.


If the answer is yes, can you please give us a synopsis on how you feel about the game's progression and the massive requirements for it.

If no, perhaps you should consider playing it, and using that to make future changes to the game instead of being a game weatherman forcasting what the changes will bring.

No bash intended just want to know.

Dear OP!

Nope they don't play it the way you think they should. I have personally met some of them during my 3 years time and even chatted with few. I could write a list full of my experiences, i have even stated to a few, that their so called testing is a bad joke and has no significant results, but hey we all see the end result of it...

First example, i have met 2 of them, while "testing" the Angel companion way back. They were BiS on GOD MODE. I was laughing the entire run, cause the other 2 party members didn't see who they were and missed all the fun. Ok, now how do you test the effectiveness of the Angel on GOD MODE? LOL

Second example, a Dev in PE on Test Server in a mixed rank 10/12 for nearly 2 days- before Mod 6's ultimate failure- was standing and taking a sun bath, maybe his char was lacking Vitamin D, who knows.

Third example, a Dev in PVP Test, full perma TR build, GOD MODE and BIS, "testing" how to farm easy kills and how to kill mobs on the map.

Any more questions?!

But to come back, the most part of the company Devs and employees didn't play an hour with their product at all, the ones who do from time to time, all with "Dev Magic", even the testers.

drkbodhi

I know for a fact that one player who works for Cryptic is not BiS. I also know that this player trudged through the same wallow I did while making his way to 70. Granted he is not a Dev, but he has insisted on earning his stripes... and scars.​​

zebular

Long Answer: It was stated in another livesteam that all the game's employees are required to play a certain amount of hours per week. I assume they get paid for that time though, but still. As well, as others have stated, it's also been said and witnessed that they do in fact play the game. So, in conjunction with them all having to play and many playing of their own accord, the Short Answer is: Yes, they play.

clericalist

I don't expect the developers to eat their own dog food, using or not using your own software is not going to determine if its high quality, people who develop high quality medical scanning devices are not likely to be the users of it. The quality of the software is very simply determined by the quality of the people designing it, Cryptic clearly has poor quality developers. As for the excuse, "evil management never gives me time to do it right", fine, but at certain point all the good people will realize that working under such conditions is an insult to their career and will find better places. Cryptic very simply is poor quality, the evidence is overwhelming.

The ultimate blame however is the on the users who defend this bad quality. People who proclaim that the poorly designed dungeons are not bad, by using the poorly design god mode Paladin is one such example. And there are many other examples like this.

What is needed for a senior developer and a senior executive to come out and very publicly announce how big of a stuff up all their recent decisions were, that they have sincere plans to improve thing. What is absolutely not needed is for the moderators and apologists for garbage design to endlessly battle people from stating the obvious, also what is not needed is for users to reward bad behavior from Cryptic, because it will mean you will get more of it.

dandare

greyloche said:

But, on the bright side. This entire series of events will make a great paper for someone in their Economics class.

Something with a title similar to "How to Kill a F2P game using Poor decisions while trying to Milk ever last dime from your customers". with a subtitle "Russian Economic Model".

The analysis of the decisions alone could lead to some pretty awesome discussions. And the impact, or misdirected impact, of those decisions. Wow. Almost wish i was back in school.

Darn!

And here I already have Master degree in Economics since 1 year.

That being said: professors shun upon idea of making thesis based on games in general. But theoretically your idea is brilliant XD

rapo973

fdsakhfduewhfiuf said:

>
Well, I get Tarmalune trade bars from lockboxes opened with VIP keys

Case 1)
you buy some keys with zen. You (close to) always get object X + some taralume.

Case 2)
You open the lockboxes with the VIP key. Object X + zero taralume most of the times.


I had the chance to test both: VIP keys has a different behavior and it's not like a key bought with zen. Many guildmates tell me everyday that they get ZERO taralume when they use the VIP key to open the lockbox.

mifiisu

I always get some tarmalune bars with the VIP key, but rarely more than 5 at a time

kreatyve

Ummm.... I get my trade bars EVERY time I use my VIP key. Minimum of 4 trade bars, I've seen as many as 10 though. But I've never once gotten 0.

I plan on doing a live stream today. I will use my VIP key on the stream.

rapo973

kreatyve said:

Ummm.... I get my trade bars EVERY time I use my VIP key. Minimum of 4 trade bars, I've seen as many as 10 though. But I've never once gotten 0.

I plan on doing a live stream today. I will use my VIP key on the stream.

That's good!

I'm reporting the discussion we had yesterday evening in my guild about it. There are cases where 20 keys were used and less than 100 taralume given. The taralume rewards with the VIP key seems to be lower than the same with the zen key, even zero rewards happened.

I made the exeperiment on my own and at the moment I can confirm this statement.

To be more concrete, on my side I will ask mates to take a screenshot of the UI everytime the open the lockbox with the VIP key. I will post the result in a dedicated thread. IT will take some days to have 5 VIP keys against 5 Zen keys.

hypnoticbeast

seventhpillar said:

hypnoticbeast said:

Remember Devs have lives to ya know.
...snip...

Well in that case, perhaps devs need to also remember as players, we have lives as well and we cannot just sit in front of the computer and play the game all day everyday. I have no problem spending money, I have done so. But come on, do you really think this is micro transactions?

Let's look at it this way, if the zen shop was adjusted to where everything is single purchase and no item is account bound with max price of $5 for items like mount and maybe $2 for companions and $1 for items like re-spec tokens, coalward and such, $0.50 for normal wards, I bet they will make more money from users. Because users will look at that and say, OK, why should I bot or buy from bot farmers when the fee is acceptable. Yeah I can probably skip on buying a soda, candy bar or what not and spend that on the game. With many users thinking this way, it will encourage buying/spending in game, because the price is nominal for virtual items. I don't think anyone would even think twice if they feel they need the item.

People will buy respec tokens in bulk and encourage experimenting with skills instead of using cookie cutter builds and I bet when users have this sense of freedom and feel good about playing to where they are not milked out of their pockets, then they might even promote this to their friends and such. But at the rate of things now, you really think someone will recommend this to anyone?

Good that AD/zen price is going down but the fact of the matter is, a lot of things are still fixed priced and insanely set too high that will be attractive to anyone with the right mind. In fact, as AD become scarce, zen value will go down as well and your money doesn't stretch as far.


Again if prices were set to real micro purchases, players will spend more as their time is more important. At the current state, their time is important but not that important that they will spend their money on the game vs spending it on their families or bills.

It's not too late yet but it's close. It feels like one more bad decision after this, then it's game over for most.

Yes I do agree that the zen market needs a overhaul. But if they had no account bound items the Zen/AD exchange would go away. But what I was trying to say before you cut my quote. There needs to be other things to do in the game to keep people playing. There just is not enough and I don't just mean the odd weekend or seasonal event we need more then the grind game is about fun. not work. FYI The vip keys do give bars just a much lower rate. I opened 3 got 12 between them.

urabask

confusedpoof said:

Pretty sure Panderus plays, and like Kreatyve mentioned, quite a few have said on live streams and in the forums that they play.

Every studio gives lip service similar to this. Do you really expect them to say they don't play their game?

sharonious

I've never not gotten trade bars from the VIP keys. Only got 1 jackpot so far, but thats supppsed to be rare anyway.

Maybe the drop rate is different for different lockboxes? I was doing rusted iron until I ran out.

venuslightheart

Developers may play the game. They play the game at an advantage. They need an item. They created and added to their inventory. They do not need to buy Zen. They do not need AD. They do not need any of the various coins.

So, they do not get the true feelling of take time to earn it.

They will never get the authentic feeling of a various standard player types.

balorin

How many hours they need to play to see that this new PVP is just unplayable due to the constant lag.
Playing around one hours with a freeking lag is just horrible.

dandare

venuslightheart said:

Developers may play the game. They play the game at an advantage. They need an item. They created and added to their inventory. They do not need to buy Zen. They do not need AD. They do not need any of the various coins.

So, they do not get the true feelling of take time to earn it.

They will never get the authentic feeling of a various standard player types.

I feel and fear it might be the case. But if it's true then they're literally "detached from game reality" even while playing. It's like doing single play with all cheat codes on. Not much fun~...

theycallmetomu

I've routinely gotten 3 bars from my lockbox keys, but I've also gotten 10+ before.

When I first started opening boxes it seemed like they clustered around the 3 range, but lately they seem to be clustering around 10.

I don't think the RNG in NWO is very good.

For instance, it took me 30 tries to rank up an enchantment with a 20% success rate over double RP weekend. That's a .1% chance over 30 instances. But that sort of thing has been typical.

strous1

Let the Dev,s answer his question. Not players and most certianly not Form Moderators.

methuselas

I know a lot of people are upset by the changes implemented since Mod6, myself included, but one thing you have to understand is that Cryptic *IS* a business. It's not easy being a game developer and the days of garage developers are over. Players EXPECT the best, brightest and most glittery of all engines. They expect that, 'cos developers are required to push the envelope with each new release. This is a PC/Console game. You want a low-grade, sprite filled side-scroller, use your phone or tablet.

What most people DON'T seem to understand, though, is Cryptic is STILL a business. Yes, the game is "Free 2 Play", but in reality, that's a privilege. They need money to survive, which is why we have the Zen store. You think it's easy to run a business, especially a game developer? For the art department, alone, you need high end machines, all of which require a license for the Operating System. You need a license for your 3D application of choice (in Cryptic's case, much to my dismay, is 3DMax) . You need a license for your 2D Paint programs, to create diffuse, spec, displacement, normal and bump maps, all of which the Cryptic Engine uses. Your audio department needs Audition or Vegas, to create the sounds and effects needed in game. Your audio department also needs music development software, such as Cubase, Logic, Reason. You need Office software for internal emails, database structure and writing. Let's not forget any web development software they may need. Each machine that uses this software, requires a license.

I'm freelance now, but I spent 5 grand on my own copy of Maya 2012s Developer pack. I spent over 3 grand on Adobe Creative Suite. I spent almost a grand on Reason, 500 on Cubase, etc. All of this costs money, but to be a legitimate freelance designer, I need legitimate copies of all the software I use, for production.

In addition, like the rest of us, Cryptic has bills to pay. They have rent for their offices, electrical, phonelines, internet, server costs all of which cost money......

But, Neverwinter is "Free 2 Play."

I've been pretty civil the past 2 or so days, which is really surprising, considering how much I've trolled them in the past for poor decisions, bad bugs and exploits, not to mention REALLY bad management, but I'm getting a little irritated at all these n00b whiners, crying about all the "Whales" and "Botters", that are "destroying the game." The Neverwinter user base has been shrinking since before Sharandar and back then, this game was a BLAST.

Every time you want to HAMSTER and moan about how this is "bind on equip" now, or that the dragon hordes are nerfed, or you can't get ahead 'cos of all the "pay 2 win" people, sit back and ask yourself WHY. Cryptic has been FORCED to limit in-game AD gains as much as possible, 'cos this game is FULL of a bunch of "Free 2 Play" crybabies that want to throw fits they can't compete with the people that have been in the game since the beginning and have invested a lot of time, money and effort into the game. Most of the people complaining about "Leadership Armies" are people that didn't think to do professions, so they missed out, don't spend a dime on the game, since it's "Free 2 Play" or when they do put money in the game, they buy it from Gold Sellers, 'cos they "get more."

I'm going to try and explain this in the most simple way possible, so SOME of you people will finally get it. I shouldn't HAVE to explain it, but it needs to be done, just so you'll get it through your cheap heads:

PERFECT WORLD ordered the Leadership Gateway/AD nerfs, as Neverwinter's player base is shrinking and fewer and fewer people are buying Zen, so they're not making enough money as predicted. Too many players are giving money to Gold Sellers, 'cos it's "cheaper" and they "get more", rather than support the company and it's parent company that provided the game you so love playing *AND* complaining about, so Cryptic was forced to take DRASTIC measures to prevent that loss of revenue to Gold Sellers.

Yes, I had a "Leadership Army", consisting of 8 toons I continually rotated and played. That is, until Mod6 came out. I earned it, though. I spent money on the game, I invested A LOT of time, money and effort into this game. I'm also a "twinker." That's right, Kiddos. All that income I generated from having all my heroes busting out professions as quick as the could, bought random people Horses, when they were in Zone chat, asking people for money to buy one. It bought stacks of ID scrolls and emailed them to random people that merely mentioned how expensive they were and how rare AD was. I've been in Zones, joining up with *SAD*, poorly equipped toons that needed help running a quest, only to come back with a full set of rank 70 blues, a stack of pots and handfuls of R5 Enchants and Runestones.

None of this I "had" to do. I CHOSE to, 'cos I had extra to give, but some of you can't even drop Cryptic 10$ for Zen, yet you feel you have the "right" to complain when there are bugs, or they do something you don't like. Not even 10 months ago, I sunk 100$ into Zen, for Cryptic in *ONE* month and this wasn't the first time. That's almost the equivalent of a years subscription with other games. I haven't put any more money since, as I, too, got irritated with the direction Cryptic was going, but *I* am not blowing smoke, I "put money into the game." I actually did it.

So, I'm calling you out. Show me you put your money where your mouth is. If you do, you have a right to complain. If you don't, STFU already. If you had a "Leadership Army" and you put money in the game, show it. Let all these leechers see how you SUPPORT a game you love and enjoy. If you invested in the game, post it. Most of these whiners are just that, whiners and while I love a good troll, I'm not going to sit by idle and watch Cryptic take the flame for something they were FORCED to do, 'cos this community is a bunch of misers that want something, "for free."

Just my 2p.