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Will the Assault Cruiser be getting an LC Tac Slot?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The Excelsior should never have had one, the assault cruiser is just that, and ASSAULT cruisier, give it the fire power it needs.
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Nope, it's the assault CRUISER. That's why it has the engineering lieutenant-commander. If you want a tactical lieutenant-commander on the Sovereign ALL ships should be allowed to fuse their off-specialy ensign slots with the lieutenant ones to get a lieutenant-commander.
The tactical slot is not overpowered, it loses the engineering one. Of course this would also mean that the Excelsior would get back its old layout. Meaning no engineering ensign but a science lieutenant-commander....
No, it would not mean that. Where did you get the idea that it had to mean the Excelsior should be even more overpowered? The Sovereign should get this layout:
Sci Lt.
Eng. Cmdr
Eng. Lt. Cmdr
Tac Lt Cmdr
With the Excelsior being the same as it is now. Why? Because the Excelsior gets the transwarp drive special ability. And because the Sovereign is more advanced overall and should have a boff advantage over the Excelsior.
The same should go for the Star cruiser over the Nebula class. C-Store ships should have a slight special advantage but the standard ships should have better overall performance.
The Excelsior isn't overpowered.
Unless you can show me how I can use the transwarp drive to tear my enemies apart in combat it has zero influence on the combat balance of the Excelsior. The second sentence shows your true colours. This isn't about the Excelsior being overpowered, the horror for you is that it's an equal match for your Sovereign. Sorry, this is Star Trek (where ships are constantly upgraded to perform beyond their old specifications) AND a game (which needs balance). It will stay that way.
The C-Store ships pay for their special advantages in combat. The transwarp drive doesn't have anything to do with that so the Excelsior has to bring the same effectiveness as the Sovereign to a battle.
Heh, the cries of OP assault cruiser will be fun to hear, once it gets to keep combos of things like eng team 3 and aux to sif 3.. all the defense it has now and the crew size, and gains the offensive punch of BO3 or HY3 and so on.
The calls to nerf it back will be amusing to see.
Not if all ships get the same treatment. A fleet escort for example would have an engineering lieutenant-commander instead of the lieutenant and ensign. Heeeee-llo, Directed Energy Modulation II or Warp Plasma I. If everybody is overpowered no one is. But at the moment a lot of Sovereign captains want their ship improved without thinking of anybody else.
The thing is, the op calls missing a point, the excel cant use certain defense combos and heals for less due to the smaller crew, one ship takes a punch better, the other gives a punch better.
And this sentence shows your true colours too. I'm not a whining Sovereign fanboy. I fly a T5 Excelsior because it's far better in combat than the Sovereign.
Why should a smaller starship like the Prometheus have more firepower than the bigger Sovereign?:eek: And what does it have to do with game balance?:rolleyes:
It's not better. It's a nice hybrid of a cruiser and an escort. Less survivability than the cruiser but more firepower. I fly the Excelsior because I love the design, and I fly it with my main because there he can actually use one of the space skills he can teach to his BO's.
Ah, yet another advantage of this C-store exclusive ship... a Tactical captain can actually make use of some of their trainable skills in it! It's currently the only ship Fed-side that can actually use the captain-trained skills of two professions. Thank you for pointing this out.
As Star Cruiser Captain, I wouldn't mind a turning rate buff, but I don't think I will need it. The Star Cruiser fulfills a different role then the Excelsior and the Assault Cruiser.
If there is an issue with the BO slots, I think it should not be fixed with changing the BO layout of Excelsior and Sovereign. I think it should be fixed by creating additional Ensign powers for Tactical BOs, or reducing the level of some powers. Attack Pattern Delta and Cannon: Rapid Fire might be excellent choices for that in general, but for the Sovereign we might also want to look into a new Beam or torpedo-related power perhaps, or new Attack Patterns to begin with?
Yeah, so? It still loses one slot where a captain-trained engineering power could go. It's versatile and it's a shame that the only way to get the layout is the C-Store, but it's not overpowered.
The turning rate isn't that important for a cruiser that doesn't use dual cannons. And I would gladly take a lower hull strength for the Excelsior to make up for it, because it is a lot closer to the Prometheus than to the Sovereign in terms of size. (Yeah, other people have problem seeing the Excelsior on par with the Sovereign, I have problems seeing that big ship turn as if mass and inertia didn't exist, sue me). I don't think that the star cruiser needs an upgrade there, but mainly because of the extra crew.
There is no issue except the superstition that tactical lieutenant-commander abilities are great while engineering ones suck and that it's the other way around at ensign level. New ensign tac powers would be nice, but mainly for T5 Defiant and Raptor.
The Excelsior was planned to have a commander and lieutenant in engineering and a lieutenant-commander in both tactical and science with the other ships being revised in the coming months. However people cried nerf and let slip the dogs of whine so Cryptic made it a tactically focused hybrid cruiser with the same number and rank of BO powers as any other T5 ship. Definitely not an oversight. The Sovereign shouldn't get anything extra, it is because NO OTHER SHIP has anything extra. If the Excelsior really would be overpowered, not only the Sovereign but EVERY OTHER SHIP would need something extra to balance it out. But somehow I see only "improve our poor Sovereign"-threads. At the moment everything is balanced. The Excelsior should maybe take a hit to its hull or the assault cruiser should get the same crew as star cruiser and Galaxy-R. But nothing like an extra BO-power.
@ Victory275
Hehe, I almost took you serious. But I saw the black writing when trying to quote you.:D
I'm just not going to continue investing time and energy to rebuttal people who remain resolute to QQ the same assertions over and over without end. I'd rather play the game. But I've countered multiple threads (most started by the same guy) for awhile regarding the Ex being OP. Aside from the T5 Ex being a C-Store item issue, which has merit, it's always the Ex vs the Sov themes we see people QQing over. So now I just read them, have a good laugh, and move on. Happy gaming.
Because the actual model used in the show had just over three times as many phaser strips on it as the Sovereign did. Heck, the dorsal firepower alone is twice what the Sovereign has.
And there is a reason for it.
That's because the two ships have completely different roles. The Excelsior is a gunship, whereas the Sovvy is a ship-of-the-line designed to stand up to enemy ships and project Starfleet's power into different parts of the galaxy.
Note: this is exactly how it plays out in game. The Excelsior is quick and heavily armed, but lacks a vital element of the Sovvy's defense.
The real problem isn't that the Assault Cruiser is underpowered in comparison. It's the stupid name. Assault Cruiser. Starfleet's so PC that they name their only warships "escorts". Why the heck would the ever name anything an Assault Cruiser?
They're making a pass on all of the ships and evaluating BO slots. Until then the Excel. might be a little different
The superstition might also be that Tier 3 Tactical and Tier 3 Engineering Officer skills are equally strong, but Tier 1 Engineeirng Powers are better then Tier 1 Tactical powers.
And maybe that isn't actually superstition. Emergency Powers to Shields or Weapons seems better to me then HYT1 or BO1, provided I can avoid cooldown conflicts. (Which doesn't apply to the Galaxy-R or the Neg'Var, unfortunately.).
Given the speed with which they turned around the Excelsior's layout, they could have stuck that on Tribble weeks ago if they were serious about it. :rolleyes:
I'd go so far as to state in the future STO will allow you to refit any ship to something like this. Much easier than making a bunch of new ships, and it gets rid of tons of whining about the ship they want where they want it.
Patience is a virtue that I don't carry in abundance. Yet it is necessary with STO. I invested in the game this would become with my lifetime subscription rather than the game as it was at launch.
<< Does not own nor want to own the T5 Escortsior, also the Sov isn't my favorite Fed ship, so no crying fanboy, but it does have both a Cm and LC Eng BOs which I use quite happily, even tempted to start using the Galaxy-R, but not sure what to put in that En Eng slot yet.
I would truely prefer a more flexable BO layout in general, but I take whats avilable and try my best with that.
I use dual beams in my Sov, so I don't see how the Excelsior's slightly higher turn rate can enable something thats already usable.
But no, its not Overpowered, has no battle usable skills which make it so.
Also I do like the design of the Excelsior, so I got the T3 one
Yeah all the BT(X)S 3 skills are widely available, BOv3 and HYT3 are also available to the sovvy.
This is the song that never ends... yes it goes on and on my friend...
I want a big purple dino as my first officer now, for some odd reason. And mackinaw island fudge (no not the "extremely organic" version that's manufactured by equines).
EDIT: my personal opinion on how to resolve this? Give players a chance to get the excelsior (and by extension the nebula) in game. No not the T3 :P Gal x is a referral reward anyways, so I'm cool with it not being purchasable by merits or emblems.
And I care about having them skills because why now? and I can't even train HYT3 so it doesn't really matter to me, and if you was on about the Battle usable skills I meant as in something like Cloak or something special, not normal skills. Should of added that bit in my last post.
Could not agree more. learned this one the hard-way yesterday.:D
Th AC was shredded.
The T5 Excel took a pounding managed to recover. Both outfitted with virtually identical gear.
The answer is simple economics. One ship costs 15 dollars of extra, RL money. The other does not.
You too!^^
For the 47th time. Dstahl said that when the Excelsior layout was
Engineering: Commander, Lieutenant
Science: Lieutenant-Commander
Tactical: Lieutenant-Commander
Now there's no reason to do it, and if they still do it the Excelsior would probably be returned to its old specifications, probably leaving us in the discussion where we are now, only that the Sovereign captains want better sensors and bigger science labs.
You don't need a high turn rate to enable single cannons and dual beam banks, I've already seen plenty of assault cruisers with those. That it works a bit better with the Excelsior is probably true, I'm myself more a friend of the classical broadside.
Emergency Power to Weapon will always conflct with Emergency Power to Shields. And if what I read in the forums is true Emergency Power to Weapons doesn't give you any benefit anymore if you are already running 125 weapons power. Tactical ensign abilities are incredibly nice if you don't have the full array of powers an escort has. For me the holy three are Beam: Fire at Will, Beam Overload and High Yield Torpedo. You can only have one of those as a lieutenant skill, but if you miss the other two you are really missing something. Of course the beam skills share a cooldown, but the shared cooldown is shorter so you have something special for your enemies every 15 seconds instead of every 30.
Interesting, I'm just leveling a new cruiser captain who hit captain two days ago (same class as my Excelsior captain). I'm running a power combination that's very similar to that of my Excelsior (standard attack full broadside with FaW II + Directed Energy Modulation II + Attack Pattern Alpha) and the enemy ships explode just as fast. Sometimes I don't even get to use my HYT because the broadside kills an enemy too fast.
There is a small difference. The Excelsior was changed before release. When they changed the vice admiral refits everybody had to dismiss the old version and get a new one.
I know someone who's just leveling his second char who's supposed to fly a Sovereign. Even though he often plays together with a fleetmate who has an Excelsior and another who uses a Galaxy-R. And I always see some assault cruisers around Earth Spacedock or the Orellius sector. Do you think those are people who don't know the Excelsior exists or who can't afford it?
The Target System III abilities are commander level and not available to the Excelsior, and no the other two are not available to the Sovereign. Just like I can't slot Engineering Team III or EPtS III because I have DEM II and no second lieutenant-commander slot.
Amen.
I have one of those as engineering lieutenant.:D
I had a very similar idea. Namely making a Heavy Cruiser (Dakota/Stargazer/Cheyenne) refit with the exactly same stats as the Excelsior that can be bought with energy credits like any other T5 rear admiral ship. But that thread was hijacked by the "give my Sovereign free stuff" and the "Cryptic will upgrade all ships to the level of the Excelsior" crowds.
How does a 120 m long Defiant outgun a 685 m long Sovereign? All it takes is a lousy ingame vice admiral promotion mission.