1. No 'Fix" to KDF leveling is in development or beyond simple planning stages. All you are getting is weekly faction-neutral episodes for the foreseeable future.
Oddly enough the Dev's have stated on forum and in live interviews that this not the case. In thier own words the fleshing of the Klingon faction is in the works, so while we will get the agnostic weeklies- we also can expect some pure klingon missions as well. Or must I assume the Dev's have lied to us?
2. KDF leveling is very "grindy" and requires a lot of repetition.
No arguements there.
3. There is a better variety of gameplay for the Fed faction
still no arguement.
Is it perfect no?
NO
But its better than the nothing you are currently slated to receive.
Not according to the Dev's, that have said otherwise and to be patient. Something we had come very close to becoming until another "idea" reared its fedly head.
Instead of automatching ranks, let a captain accrue "rank tokens" or something that he can grant. Max of 5 at a time. Non-tradeable. Even max-rank VAs could accrue them up to the cap of 5.
NO, I'll wait upon the Dev's.
A scaling amount of XP, Merits, and BO points to keep up with your training costs.
NO, I'll wait upon the Dev's
This would work for other factions too.
NO, I'll wait upon the Dev's.
KDF toons could grant levels to lower ranked KDF toons.
NO, I'll wait upon the Dev's.
The benefits: Cuts the amount of grinding needed in half if you have the desire to earn rank tokens on a higher level toon. Lets you do "other things" to level the toon.
NO, I'll wait upon the Dev's.
The other stuff with the houses and such is good too, and worth exploring, but lets be realistic; The content they are working on for the foreseeable future is neutral.
Not according to the Dev's themselves. Priority one has a good interview with Stormshade where such is mentioned. Dstahl has mentioned the same. I'll wait upon the Dev's before I go the route of the federation lackey character
.
... Oddly enough the Dev's have stated on forum and in live interviews that this not the case. In thier own words the fleshing of the Klingon faction is in the works, so while we will get the agnostic weeklies- we also can expect some pure klingon missions as well. Or must I assume the Dev's have lied to us?
...
Not according to the Dev's themselves. Priority one has a good interview with Stormshade where such is mentioned. Dstahl has mentioned the same. I'll wait upon the Dev's before I go the route of the federation lackey character
...
I'm sorry, I don't think they have promised any such thing. dstahl in fact said they are solely focusing on weekly content for now when KDF players demanded more KDF episodes.
A redesign for the remote contact system to improve the way you get missions.
In the future we hope to make:
More new ships for the KDF
New PvP Maps
A new "Territory Control" PvP game
More Klingon Specific Episodes
I wouldn't say that this list is small, and most of this can be found just by going back through the Engineering Reports.
However, again, I must stress that this all takes time. It takes time to make it, to test it, to improve upon it, and then test it some more. I know you all want, and need more content, but rushing any of this out will not make things better.
Thanks,
Stormshade
So like I said, its not IN DEVELOPMENT or IN PLANNING. Its Something they want to do. Down the road.
I'd just like to point out that being patient is fine. If this isn't something you like, be patient. Its just an idea.
But being patient means just that. You can't go to every thread where a Fed makes a request and derail it with another demand that the KDF gets attention 1st. (I'm not saying you do that, just some of the KDF community in general.)
Quit a few posters are judging the suggestion solely on its merits. And they do not like the idea. The type of gameplay you suggest does not appeal to them. And that's just going off of the specifics of your suggestion and has nothing to do with tertiary stuff.
Your suggestion boils down to monster play. Dedicated Klingons don't want monster play. The game launched already so a suggestion that drastic is already facing a huge uphill climb. And monster play the way you suggest it leaves other factions out to dry which means you won't even have the support of the dev team itself who have said many times in the past that they do indeed want to make a Romulan faction.
On its merits, your suggestion doesn't work out. Maybe in Star Trek Online 2: The Sequel it can.
You're speaking as if you represent fully and understand fully the wants and desires of every KDF player, remarking at those worth representing as 'dedicated' - and speaking on their behalf.
The KDF is *already* facing a huge uphill climb - which is made worse by the fact it's a 4door on 2 wheels. You speak of 'monster play' as being 'bad' and having negative connotations. But it can be FUN - which is why anyone plays games to begin with: FUN. When it's already stated that the KDF will only have '2 wheels' when compared to the Fed car, the uphill climb is *always* going to be there - the KDF will always be in a state of 'struggle' when it comes to competing in the 4door market.
MMO's are designed to change and evolve. Change to some people is scary, and they'll say everything against it. The problem with the KDF is that it needs to change inroder to get what those 'dedicated klingons' want. They're going to have to face the facts that Cryptic and STO will never have enough resources to make the KDF an equal 'alternative' to the feds. The funding and market demand doesn't allow it.
The OP is just one attempt at the evolution the KDF needs to go through inorder to win that uphill battle.
What I see is a faction that requires attention to become competative in the STO market. The 'kdf' car has two wheels, no GPS (tricorder scanning), no power steering, and very few tracks to have fun on.
It'd take a lot of attention to make the KDF 'car' a viable 'car'.
Turning the KDF into a motorcycle takes what is already here, now, in game, and conveying it in a manner, that though isn't perfect or 'equal' to the Feds, makes far better use of it's current resources.
I see where you're coming from. <but avoided answering the question>
I understand your stance based on the history of the IP. I too used to use that history in "discussions" with KDF players. Then I walked a few miles in KDF boots and thought again about how this might effect future factions being introduced into STO.
If you aren't willing to accept your own suggestion as a resolution for the issues then how can you expect anyone else to be willing to accept your suggestion?
I know that the factions will never be equal in content unless we were to have STO + KDFO + REO + CardiO + BrO + UndO + BorgiO + HortiO + ad nauseum, all running at the same time. Something like CoH + CoV. But that doesn't lessen the desire to see each STO faction have as much content as they can in order to enjoy STO from that factions PoV.
You're speaking as if you represent fully and understand fully the wants and desires of every KDF player, remarking at those worth representing as 'dedicated' - and speaking on their behalf.
And you're speaking as if the expressed wants and desires of KDF players are immaterial and irrational. It's interesting that you decide to focus on the jabs and other tertiary stuff rather than actually consider criticisms of your OP.
The KDF is *already* facing a huge uphill climb
And your proposal does nothing to help it. Several of us have said it, and I'll say it again - we're patient. We can wait for the good stuff. But any proposal to, say, merge the factions, or force Federation gameplay on KDF players, does not serve any of the expressed interest of KDF fans.
You speak of 'monster play' as being 'bad' and having negative connotations. But it can be FUN -
Ok, so propose a FUN monster play system.
MMO's are designed to change and evolve. Change to some people is scary, and they'll say everything against it.
Maybe - but I'm looking forward to change. Be it a House v. House "diplomacy" system, or a territory game, or whatever. Forcing (or "strongly encouraging") everyone to partake of Federation PvE isn't change.
The OP is just one attempt at the evolution the KDF needs to go through inorder to win that uphill battle.
And it fails, for reasons stated. Sorry. I'd like to say "nice try," but your unwillingness to address core criticisms lends itself to the interpretation that you weren't trying for something nice.
But being patient means just that. You can't go to every thread where a Fed makes a request and derail it with another demand that the KDF gets attention 1st. (I'm not saying you do that, just some of the KDF community in general.)
I have thrown my fair share of TRIBBLE among the forums and do not shy from the truth of it, but this is not a derailing. It is in fact an outright NO. The fans of the KDF do not see JakeHutson idea as anymore productive than scrapping the Klingons all-together and have voiced our opinion of it both harshly and civilly.
Why is it assumed that we KDF players do not know our own minds opinion now?
Why must those few fed players continue to tell us we are wrong in our displeasure over ideas that we do not like?
Are we no longer allowed to even disagree with the "majority"?
In the future we hope to make:
More new ships for the KDF
New PvP Maps
A new "Territory Control" PvP game
More Klingon Specific Episodes
taken from the same Stormshade post.
Listen to the priorty one podcast interview w/Stormshade for a "horse mouth" answer if you wish.
I'll continue my stance of waiting upon the long promise.
When February rolls around and there are still no more KDF missions, you can't claim "But we were promised......!"
because you weren't.
They WANT to do it. At some point.
And no one is telling you that you cannot be unhappy with the state of the KDF.
But you have to subscribe to reality as well.
Asking for specific things: Good.
Coming into random threads and declaring that the devs are liars and that it was promised that the KDF would be an equal faction and that Cryptic can't be trusted and so on and so on..... Bad.
That will SOLVE nothing, and it just alienates the KDF even more. I think virtally everyone would be happy if there was more KDF content, but you're losing support among the mainstream players because you're trying to tear down the game to get your way.
That what these types of posts come up; Its gotten way out of hand and even random players who don't really mess with the KDF try to "settle things"
And you're speaking as if the expressed wants and desires of KDF players are immaterial and irrational. It's interesting that you decide to focus on the jabs and other tertiary stuff rather than actually consider criticisms of your OP.
And your proposal does nothing to help it. Several of us have said it, and I'll say it again - we're patient. We can wait for the good stuff. But any proposal to, say, merge the factions, or force Federation gameplay on KDF players, does not serve any of the expressed interest of KDF fans. How can you say it does nothing to help it? Nothing? Elimiate the grind, that's something. KDF houses and open sector territorial PVP, that's something as well. The blanket statement of 'nothing' is hardly accurate. The comment of 'we're paitent' has hardly been conveyed whilst reading these forums.
Ok, so propose a FUN monster play system.
Maybe - but I'm looking forward to change. Be it a House v. House "diplomacy" system, or a territory game, or whatever. Forcing (or "strongly encouraging") everyone to partake of Federation PvE isn't change. There is not any 'extra forcing' than what is already in place. Right now, to get a Fed to X teir, there is always 'stuff' to do. If you want to get a KDF to X teir, there is far less 'stuff' to do. Instead of TWO GRINDS, we only have ONE GRIND.
And it fails, for reasons stated. Sorry. I'd like to say "nice try," but your unwillingness to address core criticisms lends itself to the interpretation that you weren't trying for something nice. WHat other 'core critisims' have I not addressed?
I hope the pink shows up better than the yellow did.
Hell no this is a terrible idea, forcing people to play fed when they don't want to.
Maybe I haven't gotton this point across clear enough. Or maybe people just see my name and give whatever ideas I have a fat 'no' because it makes them feel better. I'm not sure which, so I'll err on the side of caution.
The 'force' of playing a Fed toon is merely to piggyback the KDF grind.
To get ANY toon to X teir requires a grind. This eliminates the Grind for a KDF toon - period. Two grinds in one.
WITH THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW, THE KDF HAS A VERY BORING GRIND. THE BORING GRIND IS WHAT TURNS A LOT OF PEOPLE OFF TO THE KDF. INSTEAD OF MAKING THE GRIND 'BETTER' WE SIMPLY BYPASS IT - NO MORE GRIND. NO GRIND FOR THE KDF.
This means any resources devoted to the KDF will be for the purpose of FUN rather than taking the edge off the grind.
This also means more people will be playing a KDF toon, which registers on their server-side logs. If they see more people playing, they get the green-light for more content.
I don't see why having an OPTIONAL WAY to gain ranks faster is so offensive to you. Given the choice of slightly better or no better, I would pick slightly.
You're going to regret the "we'll only accept this one narrow solution" viewpoint eventually. Wishes don't catch fishes.
Can we just keep trading trite platitudes? Its somewhat amusing.
I understand your stance based on the history of the IP. I too used to use that history in "discussions" with KDF players. Then I walked a few miles in KDF boots and thought again about how this might effect future factions being introduced into STO.
If you aren't willing to accept your own suggestion as a resolution for the issues then how can you expect anyone else to be willing to accept your suggestion?
I know that the factions will never be equal in content unless we were to have STO + KDFO + REO + CardiO + BrO + UndO + BorgiO + HortiO + ad nauseum, all running at the same time. Something like CoH + CoV. But that doesn't lessen the desire to see each STO faction have as much content as they can in order to enjoy STO from that factions PoV.
<Avoids answering the queston>
I avoided it because its a hypothetical and my answer is irrelevent as it has no bearing on the reality at hand. For the sake of arguement, yes, if I were a 'solely KDF player' I'd feel upset or want more stuff and generally agree with certain parts of the 'vibe' the KDF vocals are expressing.
Rather, I'm dealing with what IS. What are the tools at hand, what are the allocation of resources. No 'ifs' or 'could have beens' or anything.
This model takes use of every piece of content that has already been introduced for the KDF, and rearranges it for maximum efficiency, imo.
If STO can't support a 'red' car fully, of course it can't support a purple or green car. Instead of getting the car up to speed in a heavily 'blue' car dominated market, you get out of the 'car' market.
The idea at approaching different factions differently while having the grind lay on the Fed's shoulders allows ALL OTHER FACTIONS TO FOCUS THEIR RESOURCES ON 'FUN'.
How can you say it does nothing to help it? Nothing? Elimiate the grind, that's something.
It substitutes Federation gameplay for KDF gameplay. That's not improving KDF gameplay - that's distracting from it and trivializing what little exists. Wasn't this point made already?
KDF houses and open sector territorial PVP, that's something as well.
And that's not really your idea, is it, since the devs have already stated that they want to work on these things? Your proposal won't make these happen any faster - the argument that the devs would no longer be distracted by more mundane issues, and could thus focus on the big cool stuff, has already been shown to be faulty.
The comment of 'we're paitent' has hardly been conveyed whilst reading these forums.
Oh, I'm patient with the devs. I'm not patient with proposals that make the KDF marginal and irrelevant.
There is not any 'extra forcing' than what is already in place.
Are you then rescinding the proposal to force players to make a new Fed character for every Klingon character they want to play? Are you then retracting the "encouragement" to unlock KDF levels and content by playing Federation?
Right now, to get a Fed to X teir, there is always 'stuff' to do. If you want to get a KDF to X teir, there is far less 'stuff' to do. Instead of TWO GRINDS, we only have ONE GRIND.
And, again, all you're proposing is substituting in Federation gameplay.
WHat other 'core critisims' have I not addressed?
You haven't addressed any criticisms in a way that didn't miss the point. Actually, I take that back - you did, at least, acknowledge that KDF tricorders need to be fixed.
I hope the pink shows up better than the yellow did.
The yellow showed up fine. But it's a pain in the tuckus to pull your points out of the quote block. I'm glad you're downplaying your analogy, though... Edit: Whoops, spoke too soon.
Keep chugging along with the limited resources the way the KDF is now
or
Change the delivery system of the KDF to play on the strengths and downplay the weaknesses.
I'd very much enjoy discussing and building upon the second option.
You suggest that I'm 'substitiuting' federation gameplay. Yes - yes I am. In both senses, it is a 'substitute' for the time being, and bypasses the current issues of the horrible KDF grind. The problem from the Devs perspective is what the KDF is currently asking for 1) will take forever at the current pace and 2) is time spent addressing the weaknesses rather than playing to the strengths.
The Federation character progression, with crafting/missons/content/ships etc is already a huge chunk of what is already in game and is what is already developed and readily accesible to all players. The devs have already said they simply don't have the resources to 'do everything they've already done all over again, this time with a red tint'. This is never going to happen.
Let's give up that battle. Lets instead focus our attention on improving the strengths.
In the OP, I laid out the cultural missions which would have to be rich in every case. This is the KDF 'specefic' content which will honor and hold true and tell the proper story of the KDF. These are unlocked every 5 levels, giving a 'reason' to go play your KDF toon at the very least twice a teir, so that even the exclusivly Fed player is compelled to log onto their KDF to enjoy this experience.
The leveling of the Fed toon corresponding to the leveling of the KDF toon is something that is inherent to this design. Yes, it is different. Yes, I can see how it might be 'offensive' to a 'dedicated KDF player', but I'm dealing with STO: The game, and not KDF: The players feelings.' Feelings which I truely believe would be lifted once they see the KDF has a real purpose - a real purpose which sooner achieved in the outlined OP.
Either way, you're going to have a grind. Either grinding a KDF or grinding a Fed. Instead of reinventing the wheel, use the wheel already in place to carry the KDF experience.
Maybe I haven't gotton this point across clear enough. Or maybe people just see my name and give whatever ideas I have a fat 'no' because it makes them feel better. I'm not sure which, so I'll err on the side of caution.
The 'force' of playing a Fed toon is merely to piggyback the KDF grind.
To get ANY toon to X teir requires a grind. This eliminates the Grind for a KDF toon - period. Two grinds in one.
WITH THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW, THE KDF HAS A VERY BORING GRIND. THE BORING GRIND IS WHAT TURNS A LOT OF PEOPLE OFF TO THE KDF. INSTEAD OF MAKING THE GRIND 'BETTER' WE SIMPLY BYPASS IT - NO MORE GRIND. NO GRIND FOR THE KDF.
This means any resources devoted to the KDF will be for the purpose of FUN rather than taking the edge off the grind.
This also means more people will be playing a KDF toon, which registers on their server-side logs. If they see more people playing, they get the green-light for more content.
It's a win win.
Let me try, jake nobody is discounting your suggestions outright because of your name. It is what you are suggesting and failing to realize what they are rebutting with. The KDF players don't want to piggy back the grind, I don't even see them asking for it to be gone, merely content added to an extent they don't have to grind if they don't want to. Imagine if the Fed side only had Sol sector's missions, Explores and PvP. That is how thin the Klingon side is on content. Imagine how bored you would get quickly. Crystal now?
Keep chugging along with the limited resources the way the KDF is now
or
Change the delivery system of the KDF to play on the strengths and downplay the weaknesses.
I'd very much enjoy discussing and building upon the second option.
You suggest that I'm 'substitiuting' federation gameplay. Yes - yes I am. In both senses, it is a 'substitute' for the time being, and bypasses the current issues of the horrible KDF grind. The problem from the Devs perspective is what the KDF is currently asking for 1) will take forever at the current pace and 2) is time spent addressing the weaknesses rather than playing to the strengths.
The Federation character progression, with crafting/missons/content/ships etc is already a huge chunk of what is already in game and is what is already developed and readily accesible to all players. The devs have already said they simply don't have the resources to 'do everything they've already done all over again, this time with a red tint'. This is never going to happen.
Let's give up that battle. Lets instead focus our attention on improving the strengths.
In the OP, I laid out the cultural missions which would have to be rich in every case. This is the KDF 'specefic' content which will honor and hold true and tell the proper story of the KDF. These are unlocked every 5 levels, giving a 'reason' to go play your KDF toon at the very least twice a teir, so that even the exclusivly Fed player is compelled to log onto their KDF to enjoy this experience.
I'll tell you what, Play KDF only for the next month, month and a half. Get to Max level, max gear, and have some decent PvP matches. Then, and only then will your input be worth a damn...
OR
Start reading every thread ever posted about the KDF issue, understand the arguments, what has been said, and repeated over and over.
Either endure the grind, or do the homework. You can not step in and act like an expert on the issues when you don't have a freaking clue. You've been playing the game for a month now... why do you know what is better for us KDF people then us KDF people who have been playing since Closed Beta?
No offense dude, but if you are going to act with arrogance and superiority you need to have something to stand on first. Right now, you look like the fool, sitting on the King's throne, wearing a crown four sizes to big. No one believes you, and when the King catches you, you act surprised that he is not pleased with your antics.
Let me try, jake nobody is discounting your suggestions outright because of your name. It is what you are suggesting and failing to realize what they are rebutting with. The KDF players don't want to piggy back the grind, I don't even see them asking for it to be gone, merely content added to an extent they don't have to grind if they don't want to. Imagine if the Fed side only had Sol sector's missions, Explores and PvP. That is how thin the Klingon side is on content. Imagine how bored you would get quickly. Crystal now?
I understand. I see how having 2 sectors and a few repeatables would be extreemely boring.
Instead of fixing the 'bore' we bypass it alltogether.
In a perfect world with unlimited funding and endless devs, the KDF would have everything and more.
This is not the world we're in.
This model allows for KDF CONTENT to focus on the KDF FACTION rather than easing a grind. Remove the grind (a weakness of the KDF) and focus on battle and honor (the pvp side)
I understand. I see how having 2 sectors and a few repeatables would be extreemely boring.
Instead of fixing the 'bore' we bypass it alltogether.
In a perfect world with unlimited funding and endless devs, the KDF would have everything and more.
This is not the world we're in.
This model allows for KDF CONTENT to focus on the KDF FACTION rather than easing a grind. Remove the grind (a weakness of the KDF) and focus on battle and honor (the pvp side)
Since you are so fond of metaphors...
An office worker comes in with severe muscle damage on both of his legs. He may be able to walk again if he works hard, and doesn't give up.
However, using your argument in this context, you would tell him: Well, you can learn to work with your hands, after all you only need your hands for the job, so lets just cut your legs off.
So turn the KDF full on nothing but PVP? A grind is a grind no matter the flavor. A redundant unchanging task done in repetition gets old, then what? Play Fed? In doing so they are rewarded with grade tokens for their KDF character? That isn't fixing the KDF that is turning it into a tried and true monster faction, something even Cryptic has said is not what the KDF is supposed to be. Both factions will continue to gain content through the life of the game. I have a sneaking suspicion if the KDF isn't boned on the whole UGC bit coming up they will end up making far more enjoyable immersed content out of hunger and dedication.
An office worker comes in with severe muscle damage on both of his legs. He may be able to walk again if he works hard, and doesn't give up.
However, using your argument in this context, you would tell him: Well, you can learn to work with your hands, after all you only need your hands for the job, so lets just cut your legs off.
I'd be more likely to believe, in the case of the KDF, the person was infact born without legs, and trying to walk in the same capacity as others do is a battle which cannot be won.
The doctors (devs) see the pain on the persons face, and understand they wish to walk like the others, but the doctor doesn't have the resources to ever make that a reality which the person would accept.
Instead of struggling against fate, and wishing the cards in your hand was different, and hoping for something that may never come... learn how to use what you have - a kick TRIBBLE wheelchair (two wheels ) that have rockets on the side and shoot lasers.
The only thing I find amusing is the arrogance of the idea and the inability of you and those of your opinion to accept the answer of NO, WE DO NOT WANT THIS AND DO NOT LIKE IT. How many ways would you like me to repeat the same answer?
To me this option would do nothing but alienate the current playerbase. This does nothing to help the KDF out in the long term in the slightest. Contrary to the OP's suggestion otherwise. (Let me make this clear, I am criticizing the suggestion not the OP)
The KDF, while a minority of players, have been suggesting more content (Option 3 of Levs thread) since CB. It should be obvious by now that other options won't work and that the only solution at this point is allow the Devs to trickle the content the KDF needs based on the resources available.
I think it is commendable that some have tried to address this issue by thinking outside the box but ultimately the Devs are just going to have to keep doing what they have made clear they are doing.
The only thing I find amusing is the arrogance of the idea and the inability of you and those of your opinion to accept the answer of NO, WE DO NOT WANT THIS AND DO NOT LIKE IT. How many ways would you like to repeat the same answer?
Arrogance? You expect others to stop brainstorming for the sake of STO because you think you carry the wishes and thoughts of all others and are united against the idea, tearing it down without building on the spirit of constructiveness.
Let me try, jake nobody is discounting your suggestions outright because of your name. It is what you are suggesting and failing to realize what they are rebutting with. The KDF players don't want to piggy back the grind, I don't even see them asking for it to be gone, merely content added to an extent they don't have to grind if they don't want to.
For my part, I just want content added so more people will play KDF. Red space is pretty empty...
I'll tell you what, Play KDF only for the next month, month and a half. Get to Max level, max gear, and have some decent PvP matches. Then, and only then will your input be worth a damn...
Easy, there, NemoSD... Rather than say "worth a damn," say "based on experience." BTW, even just reaching Commander level should do the trick...
I understand. I see how having 2 sectors and a few repeatables would be extreemely boring.
Instead of fixing the 'bore' we bypass it alltogether.
...I don't know how to say this more clearly. Bypassing KDF play is nearly equivalent to getting rid of it altogether - basically putting it on the shelf indefinitely and letting it collect dust.
I'd rather see the KDF faction itself offer an enjoyable playing experience for a few gameplay styles. I'd rather see a variety of players "get into" the KDF, and explore its stories, culture, and history, and identify with it to some extent.
I don't want people to have an "easymode" route of entry to the upper KDF levels. I do want players to enjoy developing their KDF characters from start to finish. I don't want people being even more dismissive of further KDF development because it's just "monster play."
Will development take time? Yes. Lots of it? Yes. But your proposal does nothing to speed up that development time - rather, it attempts to downplay the importance of it by de facto making the Federation the only faction.
No thanks. People can already play Federation content. If that's what they want, fine - but don't pretend that your proposal will have no negative consequences with regards to the KDF.
Arrogance? You expect others to stop brainstorming for the sake of STO because you think you carry the wishes and thoughts of all others and are united against the idea, tearing it down without building on the spirit of constructiveness.
Yes. arrogance indeed.
I don't think it is arrogance when it should be obvious to anyone who has been on these forums for long that the main complaint by members of the KDF is that they want more content and customization options.
To me this option would do nothing but alienate the current playerbase. This does nothing to help the KDF out in the long term in the slightest. Contrary to the OP's suggestion otherwise. (Let me make this clear, I am criticizing the suggestion not the OP)
The KDF, while a minority of players, have been suggesting more content (Option 3 of Levs thread) since CB. It should be obvious by now that other options won't work and that the only solution at this point is allow the Devs to trickle the content the KDF needs based on the resources available.
I think it is commendable that some have tried to address this issue by thinking outside the box but ultimately the Devs are just going to have to keep doing what they have made clear they are doing.
Thank you AFB. I understand and respect your reply.
Comments
I'm sorry, I don't think they have promised any such thing. dstahl in fact said they are solely focusing on weekly content for now when KDF players demanded more KDF episodes.
And something Stormshade JUST posted here:
So like I said, its not IN DEVELOPMENT or IN PLANNING. Its Something they want to do. Down the road.
I'd just like to point out that being patient is fine. If this isn't something you like, be patient. Its just an idea.
But being patient means just that. You can't go to every thread where a Fed makes a request and derail it with another demand that the KDF gets attention 1st. (I'm not saying you do that, just some of the KDF community in general.)
You're speaking as if you represent fully and understand fully the wants and desires of every KDF player, remarking at those worth representing as 'dedicated' - and speaking on their behalf.
The KDF is *already* facing a huge uphill climb - which is made worse by the fact it's a 4door on 2 wheels. You speak of 'monster play' as being 'bad' and having negative connotations. But it can be FUN - which is why anyone plays games to begin with: FUN. When it's already stated that the KDF will only have '2 wheels' when compared to the Fed car, the uphill climb is *always* going to be there - the KDF will always be in a state of 'struggle' when it comes to competing in the 4door market.
MMO's are designed to change and evolve. Change to some people is scary, and they'll say everything against it. The problem with the KDF is that it needs to change inroder to get what those 'dedicated klingons' want. They're going to have to face the facts that Cryptic and STO will never have enough resources to make the KDF an equal 'alternative' to the feds. The funding and market demand doesn't allow it.
The OP is just one attempt at the evolution the KDF needs to go through inorder to win that uphill battle.
It'd take a lot of attention to make the KDF 'car' a viable 'car'.
Turning the KDF into a motorcycle takes what is already here, now, in game, and conveying it in a manner, that though isn't perfect or 'equal' to the Feds, makes far better use of it's current resources.
I understand your stance based on the history of the IP. I too used to use that history in "discussions" with KDF players. Then I walked a few miles in KDF boots and thought again about how this might effect future factions being introduced into STO.
If you aren't willing to accept your own suggestion as a resolution for the issues then how can you expect anyone else to be willing to accept your suggestion?
I know that the factions will never be equal in content unless we were to have STO + KDFO + REO + CardiO + BrO + UndO + BorgiO + HortiO + ad nauseum, all running at the same time. Something like CoH + CoV. But that doesn't lessen the desire to see each STO faction have as much content as they can in order to enjoy STO from that factions PoV.
And your proposal does nothing to help it. Several of us have said it, and I'll say it again - we're patient. We can wait for the good stuff. But any proposal to, say, merge the factions, or force Federation gameplay on KDF players, does not serve any of the expressed interest of KDF fans.
Ok, so propose a FUN monster play system.
Maybe - but I'm looking forward to change. Be it a House v. House "diplomacy" system, or a territory game, or whatever. Forcing (or "strongly encouraging") everyone to partake of Federation PvE isn't change.
And it fails, for reasons stated. Sorry. I'd like to say "nice try," but your unwillingness to address core criticisms lends itself to the interpretation that you weren't trying for something nice.
Why is it assumed that we KDF players do not know our own minds opinion now?
Why must those few fed players continue to tell us we are wrong in our displeasure over ideas that we do not like?
Are we no longer allowed to even disagree with the "majority"?
taken from the same Stormshade post.
Listen to the priorty one podcast interview w/Stormshade for a "horse mouth" answer if you wish.
I'll continue my stance of waiting upon the long promise.
When February rolls around and there are still no more KDF missions, you can't claim "But we were promised......!"
because you weren't.
They WANT to do it. At some point.
And no one is telling you that you cannot be unhappy with the state of the KDF.
But you have to subscribe to reality as well.
Asking for specific things: Good.
Coming into random threads and declaring that the devs are liars and that it was promised that the KDF would be an equal faction and that Cryptic can't be trusted and so on and so on..... Bad.
That will SOLVE nothing, and it just alienates the KDF even more. I think virtally everyone would be happy if there was more KDF content, but you're losing support among the mainstream players because you're trying to tear down the game to get your way.
That what these types of posts come up; Its gotten way out of hand and even random players who don't really mess with the KDF try to "settle things"
I hope the pink shows up better than the yellow did.
Better to await a promise then compromise one principles and sell one's self short.
Maybe I haven't gotton this point across clear enough. Or maybe people just see my name and give whatever ideas I have a fat 'no' because it makes them feel better. I'm not sure which, so I'll err on the side of caution.
The 'force' of playing a Fed toon is merely to piggyback the KDF grind.
To get ANY toon to X teir requires a grind. This eliminates the Grind for a KDF toon - period. Two grinds in one.
WITH THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW, THE KDF HAS A VERY BORING GRIND. THE BORING GRIND IS WHAT TURNS A LOT OF PEOPLE OFF TO THE KDF. INSTEAD OF MAKING THE GRIND 'BETTER' WE SIMPLY BYPASS IT - NO MORE GRIND. NO GRIND FOR THE KDF.
This means any resources devoted to the KDF will be for the purpose of FUN rather than taking the edge off the grind.
This also means more people will be playing a KDF toon, which registers on their server-side logs. If they see more people playing, they get the green-light for more content.
It's a win win.
Btw I had to go back and edit my post.
I don't see why having an OPTIONAL WAY to gain ranks faster is so offensive to you. Given the choice of slightly better or no better, I would pick slightly.
You're going to regret the "we'll only accept this one narrow solution" viewpoint eventually. Wishes don't catch fishes.
Can we just keep trading trite platitudes? Its somewhat amusing.
<Avoids answering the queston>
I avoided it because its a hypothetical and my answer is irrelevent as it has no bearing on the reality at hand. For the sake of arguement, yes, if I were a 'solely KDF player' I'd feel upset or want more stuff and generally agree with certain parts of the 'vibe' the KDF vocals are expressing.
Rather, I'm dealing with what IS. What are the tools at hand, what are the allocation of resources. No 'ifs' or 'could have beens' or anything.
This model takes use of every piece of content that has already been introduced for the KDF, and rearranges it for maximum efficiency, imo.
If STO can't support a 'red' car fully, of course it can't support a purple or green car. Instead of getting the car up to speed in a heavily 'blue' car dominated market, you get out of the 'car' market.
The idea at approaching different factions differently while having the grind lay on the Fed's shoulders allows ALL OTHER FACTIONS TO FOCUS THEIR RESOURCES ON 'FUN'.
And that's not really your idea, is it, since the devs have already stated that they want to work on these things? Your proposal won't make these happen any faster - the argument that the devs would no longer be distracted by more mundane issues, and could thus focus on the big cool stuff, has already been shown to be faulty.
Oh, I'm patient with the devs. I'm not patient with proposals that make the KDF marginal and irrelevant.
Are you then rescinding the proposal to force players to make a new Fed character for every Klingon character they want to play? Are you then retracting the "encouragement" to unlock KDF levels and content by playing Federation?
And, again, all you're proposing is substituting in Federation gameplay.
You haven't addressed any criticisms in a way that didn't miss the point. Actually, I take that back - you did, at least, acknowledge that KDF tricorders need to be fixed.
The yellow showed up fine. But it's a pain in the tuckus to pull your points out of the quote block. I'm glad you're downplaying your analogy, though... Edit: Whoops, spoke too soon.
Keep chugging along with the limited resources the way the KDF is now
or
Change the delivery system of the KDF to play on the strengths and downplay the weaknesses.
I'd very much enjoy discussing and building upon the second option.
You suggest that I'm 'substitiuting' federation gameplay. Yes - yes I am. In both senses, it is a 'substitute' for the time being, and bypasses the current issues of the horrible KDF grind. The problem from the Devs perspective is what the KDF is currently asking for 1) will take forever at the current pace and 2) is time spent addressing the weaknesses rather than playing to the strengths.
The Federation character progression, with crafting/missons/content/ships etc is already a huge chunk of what is already in game and is what is already developed and readily accesible to all players. The devs have already said they simply don't have the resources to 'do everything they've already done all over again, this time with a red tint'. This is never going to happen.
Let's give up that battle. Lets instead focus our attention on improving the strengths.
In the OP, I laid out the cultural missions which would have to be rich in every case. This is the KDF 'specefic' content which will honor and hold true and tell the proper story of the KDF. These are unlocked every 5 levels, giving a 'reason' to go play your KDF toon at the very least twice a teir, so that even the exclusivly Fed player is compelled to log onto their KDF to enjoy this experience.
The leveling of the Fed toon corresponding to the leveling of the KDF toon is something that is inherent to this design. Yes, it is different. Yes, I can see how it might be 'offensive' to a 'dedicated KDF player', but I'm dealing with STO: The game, and not KDF: The players feelings.' Feelings which I truely believe would be lifted once they see the KDF has a real purpose - a real purpose which sooner achieved in the outlined OP.
Either way, you're going to have a grind. Either grinding a KDF or grinding a Fed. Instead of reinventing the wheel, use the wheel already in place to carry the KDF experience.
Let me try, jake nobody is discounting your suggestions outright because of your name. It is what you are suggesting and failing to realize what they are rebutting with. The KDF players don't want to piggy back the grind, I don't even see them asking for it to be gone, merely content added to an extent they don't have to grind if they don't want to. Imagine if the Fed side only had Sol sector's missions, Explores and PvP. That is how thin the Klingon side is on content. Imagine how bored you would get quickly. Crystal now?
I'll tell you what, Play KDF only for the next month, month and a half. Get to Max level, max gear, and have some decent PvP matches. Then, and only then will your input be worth a damn...
OR
Start reading every thread ever posted about the KDF issue, understand the arguments, what has been said, and repeated over and over.
Either endure the grind, or do the homework. You can not step in and act like an expert on the issues when you don't have a freaking clue. You've been playing the game for a month now... why do you know what is better for us KDF people then us KDF people who have been playing since Closed Beta?
No offense dude, but if you are going to act with arrogance and superiority you need to have something to stand on first. Right now, you look like the fool, sitting on the King's throne, wearing a crown four sizes to big. No one believes you, and when the King catches you, you act surprised that he is not pleased with your antics.
I understand. I see how having 2 sectors and a few repeatables would be extreemely boring.
Instead of fixing the 'bore' we bypass it alltogether.
In a perfect world with unlimited funding and endless devs, the KDF would have everything and more.
This is not the world we're in.
This model allows for KDF CONTENT to focus on the KDF FACTION rather than easing a grind. Remove the grind (a weakness of the KDF) and focus on battle and honor (the pvp side)
Since you are so fond of metaphors...
An office worker comes in with severe muscle damage on both of his legs. He may be able to walk again if he works hard, and doesn't give up.
However, using your argument in this context, you would tell him: Well, you can learn to work with your hands, after all you only need your hands for the job, so lets just cut your legs off.
I'd be more likely to believe, in the case of the KDF, the person was infact born without legs, and trying to walk in the same capacity as others do is a battle which cannot be won.
The doctors (devs) see the pain on the persons face, and understand they wish to walk like the others, but the doctor doesn't have the resources to ever make that a reality which the person would accept.
Instead of struggling against fate, and wishing the cards in your hand was different, and hoping for something that may never come... learn how to use what you have - a kick TRIBBLE wheelchair (two wheels
The only thing I find amusing is the arrogance of the idea and the inability of you and those of your opinion to accept the answer of NO, WE DO NOT WANT THIS AND DO NOT LIKE IT. How many ways would you like me to repeat the same answer?
This is where the houses/secondary rank ladder/open sector territorial PVP comes into play.
The KDF, while a minority of players, have been suggesting more content (Option 3 of Levs thread) since CB. It should be obvious by now that other options won't work and that the only solution at this point is allow the Devs to trickle the content the KDF needs based on the resources available.
I think it is commendable that some have tried to address this issue by thinking outside the box but ultimately the Devs are just going to have to keep doing what they have made clear they are doing.
Arrogance? You expect others to stop brainstorming for the sake of STO because you think you carry the wishes and thoughts of all others and are united against the idea, tearing it down without building on the spirit of constructiveness.
Yes. arrogance indeed.
I'd rather see the KDF faction itself offer an enjoyable playing experience for a few gameplay styles. I'd rather see a variety of players "get into" the KDF, and explore its stories, culture, and history, and identify with it to some extent.
I don't want people to have an "easymode" route of entry to the upper KDF levels. I do want players to enjoy developing their KDF characters from start to finish. I don't want people being even more dismissive of further KDF development because it's just "monster play."
Will development take time? Yes. Lots of it? Yes. But your proposal does nothing to speed up that development time - rather, it attempts to downplay the importance of it by de facto making the Federation the only faction.
No thanks. People can already play Federation content. If that's what they want, fine - but don't pretend that your proposal will have no negative consequences with regards to the KDF.
I don't think it is arrogance when it should be obvious to anyone who has been on these forums for long that the main complaint by members of the KDF is that they want more content and customization options.
Thank you AFB. I understand and respect your reply.
Option 3 is already the way everything is going.
I am simply exploring the merits of option 2.