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What Did You Think: Core Assault

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  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    @ssbn655 i do get it, I noticed the difference from the first time I started to PvP. It became a better player once I started looking up builds, strategies and asking PvPers how to build a ship and how to be good at space combat.

    Here's the thing though. "Griefing" (isn't it grieving?) in PvP is never a good thing to do, because you get ganked by players for griefing people in chat or for constantly attacking the same weaker player. I've seen it and I've done it myself (attacking and griefing griefers I mean).
    In PvE however, it's a different story griefing safe to do and easy to get away with and this happens way more often than the PvE community would care to admit.

    So far in core assault I've been told to shut up by some idiot in an iconian dreadnought that refused to contribute to the team and help with opening the door when I politely asked. He didn't even understand the concept of "jack in the box". And I've been spawncamped by people I've never seen in PvP queues or Ker'rat so I'm assuming they're PvEers or DPSers because their builds had the structural integrity of a chocolate teapot in a summers day but were hitting hard when I was slowed or held by something. That being said, I'm not an idiot, I know how to handle spawncamping idiots that are scared of having a proper fight.

    To top things off, I've been dying to the enemy core and Breen NPCs more than I've been dying to players or even killing players. And it's honestly been so much fun!!

    Complaining about PvP when the majority of people you are fighting in the queues (if and when you manage to engage or be engaged by a player because it's not as often as you think) are as clueless about how to PvP as you are and can be killed by a t5u Defiant running no immunities, using Accx3 weapons with a classic DBB, DHCx2 and a torp, using APO3, APD1, BO2, CRF2 and HY3 as main attack buffs with no EPtW or KLW... is embarrassing and silly.

    If you want to succeed at something, anything really, you need spend time to learn how to do it. It's not easy, it'll hurt the ego, at the start you'll spend far more resources that you'll eventually learn you didn't need.
    It's the same thing with PvE (people still struggle to this day with the cure space, ground queues in general and I used to to until I looked up how to do it properly) and even more so with PvP.

    At the end of the day, if you don't like it, don't do it (or do the elite core assault because PvPing in that is pointless because there's no time. You either PvP or take out the enemy's core and only attacking the core will grant you the win).
    PvE, along with the federation faction, have received all the love for 7 years and look at the state of the game, it's a DPS, spacebar, spacebarbie, Fed-fest with broken game mechanics that has lead to a mountain of complaints and an entire community leaving the game (my main is a Fed so no "you're a klink so of course you want more content for a PvP faction" nonsense).

    The Devs are finally listening to the side of the community that wants balanced game mechanics, balanced powercreep, content that is more than story and playing spacebar hero with DPS so that STO can succeed as a game and attract more players and thus more funding.

    STO is finally making a turn for the better which has led to Ker'rat and PvP queues becoming populated again (we had 2 instances in Ker'rat on Wednesday, it hasn't been like that since a few months after DR), it's brought back old players that, nice they see the improvements done to game balance and the new content that doesn't focus around DPS-FAW-spamming, will be more encouraged to spend money in STO thus bringing more resources for the Devs and more, better, content for everyone. For PvEers and PvPers.

    Change is difficult but this is the first positive step since the miserable decline after season 8.5. Things will get better, learn to adapt. Or do a different queue.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,862 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Let us be frank here the only way to fix PVP and the Co-op PVe is for those be done in premade + pregeared ships along the lines of the Klingon mission where you must steal a shuttle that has locked gear and to that add a locked set of boffs and skills. In other words take the gear and ship aspect out of the equation. When you join the quque before the game starts you have three ship choices all the same tier ... One Sci , One Eng and One Tac ship premade to pick from.
    Sadly right now any and all PVP is mostly a gear war not a skill war. I have played MMO's for a very long time and frankly the only PVP cmapers aside and glitch exploiters aside that was fun was Halo Combat Evolved and Red Orchestra those were truly player skill based not gear based. Yes I admit I did my fair share of ganking as it flet kind of like payback for all the garbage I put up with leveling in games like WOW. But when I saw what an azz I was I stopped.
    Yes there are truly good PVPers who will try and help not by brow beating with things like "You suck you can't do squat unless you have XYZ gear that was behind a paywall that is now gone and beyond access." . But at the same time you have far to many PVPers who just don't get that what is great for PVE may appear Over powered to them for PVP and cry nerf it nerf it. Also there are far to many PVPers who lord it over those that are just getting a grip on PVP. Hell just scroll through the comments sometime. The most vocal nerf criers are PVP who never did PVE quques to speak of but when something new comes along that threatens thier "god hood" scream for nerfing to balance the game. Until something real is done to PVP and Co-Op the problems will remain where they are a gear and wallet war not a player skill war. Even in these threads people mention the other team getting to the core before thier group even got past door one. This is a major issue and points out that it is a gear based mission not skill even though on the surface it appears to be.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,909 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Just did a mission where one person was a total troll and profaned everyone when asked to contribute to the door lock room. Unfortunately he had a sad follower and we needed at least 4 to work the locks.

    Cryptic please add an afk thing that detects when people are not helping and just doesn't give them anything after the match.

    Or remove the lock room.

    Or scrap the teamwork and make it every ship for themselves just like regular PvP.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    First run, had no idea what we were doing. Intro didn't really tell you what was going on. Didn't even know what team I was on. And at the end room, I was like "Who's that?" and then I exploded. I don't remember any mention of actual PvP in the blog posts. It was all 'race the other team'. I didn't know it was a gank-fest in a small room at the end of it. I'll get my 1200 marks to get max rep, then I'll probably never head there again. I'm not a PvPer. And my Vengeance makes a big target in that last small room! :'( I see escorts dominating this cramped battleground. I spend most of my time just turning to face the random waves of mobs, getting a key color thingamagig, and always seem to be facing the wrong way when the door finally opens. Just spamming Evasive, Ep2Engines, and A2InertialDampeners all the time to get my boat turned.

    Also, really hard to tell who won, shouldn't there be a final tally screen like most other games have after a PvP match?
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    Are you trolling or just ignoring other groups?
    patrickngo wrote: »
    @ssbn655 i do get it, I noticed the difference from the first time I started to PvP. It became a better player once I started looking up builds, strategies and asking PvPers how to build a ship and how to be good at space combat.

    Here's the thing though. "Griefing" (isn't it grieving?) in PvP is never a good thing to do, because you get ganked by players for griefing people in chat or for constantly attacking the same weaker player. I've seen it and I've done it myself (attacking and griefing griefers I mean).
    In PvE however, it's a different story griefing safe to do and easy to get away with and this happens way more often than the PvE community would care to admit.

    So far in core assault I've been told to shut up by some idiot in an iconian dreadnought that refused to contribute to the team and help with opening the door when I politely asked. He didn't even understand the concept of "jack in the box". And I've been spawncamped by people I've never seen in PvP queues or Ker'rat so I'm assuming they're PvEers or DPSers because their builds had the structural integrity of a chocolate teapot in a summers day but were hitting hard when I was slowed or held by something. That being said, I'm not an idiot, I know how to handle spawncamping idiots that are scared of having a proper fight.

    To top things off, I've been dying to the enemy core and Breen NPCs more than I've been dying to players or even killing players. And it's honestly been so much fun!!

    Complaining about PvP when the majority of people you are fighting in the queues (if and when you manage to engage or be engaged by a player because it's not as often as you think) are as clueless about how to PvP as you are and can be killed by a t5u Defiant running no immunities, using Accx3 weapons with a classic DBB, DHCx2 and a torp, using APO3, APD1, BO2, CRF2 and HY3 as main attack buffs with no EPtW or KLW... is embarrassing and silly.

    If you want to succeed at something, anything really, you need spend time to learn how to do it. It's not easy, it'll hurt the ego, at the start you'll spend far more resources that you'll eventually learn you didn't need.
    It's the same thing with PvE (people still struggle to this day with the cure space, ground queues in general and I used to to until I looked up how to do it properly) and even more so with PvP.

    At the end of the day, if you don't like it, don't do it (or do the elite core assault because PvPing in that is pointless because there's no time. You either PvP or take out the enemy's core and only attacking the core will grant you the win).
    PvE, along with the federation faction, have received all the love for 7 years and look at the state of the game, it's a DPS, spacebar, spacebarbie, Fed-fest with broken game mechanics that has lead to a mountain of complaints and an entire community leaving the game (my main is a Fed so no "you're a klink so of course you want more content for a PvP faction" nonsense).

    The Devs are finally listening to the side of the community that wants balanced game mechanics, balanced powercreep, content that is more than story and playing spacebar hero with DPS so that STO can succeed as a game and attract more players and thus more funding.

    STO is finally making a turn for the better which has led to Ker'rat and PvP queues becoming populated again (we had 2 instances in Ker'rat on Wednesday, it hasn't been like that since a few months after DR), it's brought back old players that, nice they see the improvements done to game balance and the new content that doesn't focus around DPS-FAW-spamming, will be more encouraged to spend money in STO thus bringing more resources for the Devs and more, better, content for everyone. For PvEers and PvPers.

    Change is difficult but this is the first positive step since the miserable decline after season 8.5. Things will get better, learn to adapt. Or do a different queue.

    I think we can thin it down a lot, RWS. the following is more of a description of a spectrum of player types and interactions, so it's wordier than a simple, pithy definition, but I think it reinforces some of your points.

    there are Trolls. they're not PvP or PvE players, they're Trolls. they're the guy who just wants to see the world burn, and they'll exploit every broken mechanic to **** up things for someone else, and that's regardless of PvE, or PvP play.

    the PvP player accepts the possibility of losing a fight or match. they will try to minimize that risk, but the accept it can happen without the other fellow using cheats or hax. It's the PvP players that come up with honor traditions like "the cracked planetoid in Ker'rat is for one on one duels and you don't interfere or the whole instance will turn on you." (Demonstrated on Wednesday afternoon, 4/26/17 to some people who did NOT wish to observe this tradition. the stronger PvP players fedside stood aside after a certain Fed jumped into a duel with his buddies and ganked someone who was in a called duel. in th e end, everyone but a couple of trolls broke up an hour later on good terms. this is NOT something that would, or could, happen with most PvE groups.)

    the PvP player doesn't have to have the "Best gear" either-a lot of us intentionally run without it, or with builds that are clearly NON optimal even when we've got the ability to min/max, because we want that thrill of beating an opponent with our cleverness and skill, rather than with the wallet. we even started movements devoted to that theme. (Look up "Vanilla PvP", there's even a video from season 8.5)

    On to the PvE players...

    In my observation, the PvE players come in two basic groups. Group 1 are players that might become PvP'ers if they give it half a chance, because they have a competitive, risk-taking spirit and an interest in challenge. This group will run STF's that have failure conditions, they don't lean on the most broken combinations because they don't feel it's thematic enough, or they don't want to spend their lives re-running ISA endlessly, alternating with CCA.

    Group 2 PvE players basically can't stand to lose. this is the group that will, when cornered into something like Core Assault, will camp the spawn, trash-talk and throw a hissy fit when they're taken down. Group 2's are close relatives of the Troll, but with different motives-the Troll screws with people because **** with people is how he gets his fun, the group 2 will do it because it's the most efficient way to win-and to punish those they feel harmed their chance of winning.

    There are a few posters (I won't name and shame) that fit the Group 2 type PvE player. They throw fits when their broken gear and builds get rebalanced, and they condemn all PvP as trolling-even when they themselves represent the worst of it when they are put in that situation.



  • liberatrixliberatrix Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    A great entry to draw people back into some pvp and teamwork... I used to like the old ques from years ago, where we competed against one another to defeat the Borg. Wouldn't mind something like that being brought back in, but I know the one-sided advantage the Feds enjoy prohibits it.
    In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,178 Arc User
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    Let us be frank here the only way to fix PVP and the Co-op PVe is for those be done in premade + pregeared ships along the lines of the Klingon mission where you must steal a shuttle that has locked gear and to that add a locked set of boffs and skills. In other words take the gear and ship aspect out of the equation.

    No, that's not necessary. The alternative is a matching system alongside a sufficiently large playerbase that allows people to PVP against those of approximately similar capabilities.

    Anyway, as to Core Assault itself; most fun I've had in this game in YEARS. Short, focused PVP bouts that avoid the drag-outs which result from normal PVP maps. The new matching system seems to work well too - to borrow a metaphor, I seem to be having as many games where I'm the windscreen as where I'm the bug.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,458 Arc User
    Just did a mission where one person was a total troll and profaned everyone when asked to contribute to the door lock room. Unfortunately he had a sad follower and we needed at least 4 to work the locks.

    Cryptic please add an afk thing that detects when people are not helping and just doesn't give them anything after the match.

    Or remove the lock room.

    Or scrap the teamwork and make it every ship for themselves just like regular PvP.

    I had a similar problem in a door room. Though I found out by accident that if you position your ship between the bottom two locks evenly you can push both locks at the same time. Not sure if this is a bug but it helped overcome the players who wouldn't contribute to opening the door.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?

    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,889 Arc User
    regenerde wrote: »
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?
    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    Sucks to be them. Seriously. It's fine to not be interested, but those who are will reap the rewards, and those who aren't... well too bad.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,178 Arc User
    regenerde wrote: »
    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO. I know, crazy, right? B)

    If there was a serious downside to not completing the rep, then you could accuse STO of "forcing" PVP. But that's not the case. Players are free to ignore it (as some are) or can do the PVP-free ground mission.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    People wanted something different. Core Assault is a good start. Overall, I enjoy playing it. The mix of combat and puzzles is a solid attempt at making something new and different. Having pvp enabled at the end is a nice touch too as it's fun to blow people out of the sky just to rub it in.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,527 Arc User
    regenerde wrote: »
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?

    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    Yes. And their options are:
    1. Play the queues anyway and ignore the PvP (you get rewarded either way)
    2. Ignore the queues completely (nobody's required to play them, or the rep)
    3. Come to the forums to whine about the very existence of the queues, rant about being "forced" to play something that's entirely optional and call names at people who play the queues or other PvP

    Some of these options are more civilized than other.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,178 Arc User
    People wanted something different. Core Assault is a good start. Overall, I enjoy playing it. The mix of combat and puzzles is a solid attempt at making something new and different. Having pvp enabled at the end is a nice touch too as it's fun to blow people out of the sky just to rub it in.

    More to the point, the PVP element makes it generally more unpredictable - and therefore capable of sustaining interest.

    And actually, I think the PVP in core assault is very well executed. The requirement for teams to defend their own core while attacking the opposing one, in a fairly confined space, introduces an interesting dynamic; it's a neat counter to the problems of ships running off into the distance, or endlessly protracted duals, in other environments. The lack of a kill-score also limits vaper antics; it's great to quickly slag an opponent, but if you can't repeat the process quickly it's of limited value.
  • kovabombkovabomb Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    What I’ve been able to see and play of Core Assault I have liked. The teamwork required and the activities of the mission are fun and encouraging. However, I’ve not been able to see much of the mission because it’s almost unplayable for me.

    Each time I’ve run the mission, I’ve encountered the same problem: the moment a batch of NPC enemies fill my line of sight, my frame rate goes kaput and never fully recovers. And soon after this problem strikes, almost without fail the game client crashes. It’s a graphical lag problem that has been plaguing me and others ever since the launch of season 13, and not just in Core Assault. And I have tried adjusting my graphics settings but nothing has helped. The problem persists no matter what settings I've run.

    So, in short: I like the concept and the mission, but please, PLEASE fix the underlying issues so that we can properly enjoy it.

    (And yes, I have mentioned this issue in the bug report forums.)
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,458 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Is there any way to guard against the core explosions? I notice those things pulse till everyone is dead. You can't fly out of range or stay up close. It also seems to happen every quarter of the way of health you knock off.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    regenerde wrote: »
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?

    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    Yes. And their options are:
    1. Play the queues anyway and ignore the PvP (you get rewarded either way)
    2. Ignore the queues completely (nobody's required to play them, or the rep)
    3. Come to the forums to whine about the very existence of the queues, rant about being "forced" to play something that's entirely optional and call names at people who play the queues or other PvP

    Some of these options are more civilized than other.

    Well, they wanted feedback about this new feature, and that's what they are getting here.

    1. They could have kept the whole thing PvE or PvP from the beginning to the very end, plain and simple.

    2. They could have added a separated PvE and PvP version of those new runs to the game, and then let the players decide what they want to do.

    3. Last but not least, it would have been civilized to respect the opinions of fellow players without trying to degrade them...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 13,070 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I do not do PVP. I've never done PVP.

    That said, I really hope this ends up being enjoyable for those that love PVP. I love that this game has, or at least tries, to have something for everybody. I applaud you for the effort here. But this is simple something I do not wish to participate in.

    Now, if you'd be so kind as to tell me how to get these Rep Marks other than participating in these queues. So far, I cannot get them via the Borg Red Alert daily. :disappointed:
    pulldownyourpantsandslideontheice-001.jpg~original
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • texastrekkietexastrekkie Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    misterloz wrote: »
    "Someone else will do the donkeywork" seems to be the ethos of the players I've queued up with.

    One run was totally failed because two DPS heads simply refused to do anything other than shoot. This was fine until we drew the doorkey stage which was lost because neither bothered to assist.

    However. That being said I enjoyed the mission. The focus on doing something other than just DPS is quite refreshing. But ultimately let down by a playerbase who can barely work together.

    Sorry for the rant.


    Same here. I think the door key one needs a warning flashing, maybe an audio prompt every 60 seconds, making it clear that people need to be on the keys. One heroic member of our team did a good job at getting equidistant between two keys to get it open though. Despite that, it took way too long and our core was destroyed the second we entered the chamber all because we had two people who didn't realize what was going on and didn't have chat open.

    I played Friday night for the first time. I was unable to get through all the information, so I had no clue what to do. I told the team it was my 1st time and I had no idea, I received no response. I shot stuff, tried to figure out the keys, but was actually more successful on the slider bars thing. Hubby figured it out and I took top while he took bottom. We did have 1 person that seemed to be knowledgeable so we kept an eye on them. I'm gonna keep running them because figuring it out and then succeeding is the fun part.
  • megacharge07megacharge07 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    It's good actually, a lot of fun.
    tumblr_mt0cmzAQpC1rm3hhlo2_500.gif
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,909 Arc User
    nimbull wrote: »
    Just did a mission where one person was a total troll and profaned everyone when asked to contribute to the door lock room. Unfortunately he had a sad follower and we needed at least 4 to work the locks.

    Cryptic please add an afk thing that detects when people are not helping and just doesn't give them anything after the match.

    Or remove the lock room.

    Or scrap the teamwork and make it every ship for themselves just like regular PvP.

    I had a similar problem in a door room. Though I found out by accident that if you position your ship between the bottom two locks evenly you can push both locks at the same time. Not sure if this is a bug but it helped overcome the players who wouldn't contribute to opening the door.

    Thank you I will do that next time.
  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 823 Arc User
    The content is good, so are the battle's but I dont like it at all. Its like a team effort PvP. I dislike PvP in STO. If I wanted to play it I got other games that handle it a lot better. Wish the suits would get that. Not everyone wants to do the team play. Would be great if you give us other options on getting the requirements for the rep gear.
    From your quote's you used with the Great Nerf of 2017
    * Increase the fun – Games are about having fun, and players should not be made to feel that their fun is “wrong.”
    Your forcing me to play it for the rewards. Thats not fun!
    * Choices should be meaningful – Anywhere the game gives you a choice, there should be no choice that you always take nor one you never take.
    I got no choice if I want the gear(Space and Ground) from the rep.
    Positive thoughts.
    NeAC.gif
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,178 Arc User
    tarran61 wrote: »
    The content is good, so are the battle's but I dont like it at all. Its like a team effort PvP. I dislike PvP in STO. If I wanted to play it I got other games that handle it a lot better. Wish the suits would get that. Not everyone wants to do the team play. Would be great if you give us other options on getting the requirements for the rep gear.
    ***************************************************
    I got no choice if I want the gear(Space and Ground) from the rep.

    You do have a choice - either don't get the gear (which, with the exception of the flak cannon, looks pretty "meh" anyway) or wait until all-marks events run.

    As is so often the case, the complaint boils down to "I want this". It's not like there are not scads of equally- or more-effective alternatives available by other means.

  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,528 Arc User
    What pains me most is the colour/symbol match task. I can't believe how many players struggle with that one.
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    Only complaint I have is the Combo Lock room.
    Not a fan of having to do it over and over and over again.

    Gets real old.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,349 Arc User
    7 years too late, Nuff said.

    They gone and nuke nerf the life out of STO for this? All in the name of fair and balance, sounds like a page from FOX news & Bill O'Reilly.

    "Escalation is the best expansion ever, and the players love it!"
    StarTrekIronMan.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,889 Arc User
    I do not do PVP. I've never done PVP.

    That said, I really hope this ends up being enjoyable for those that love PVP. I love that this game has, or at least tries, to have something for everybody. I applaud you for the effort here. But this is simple something I do not wish to participate in.

    Now, if you'd be so kind as to tell me how to get these Rep Marks other than participating in these queues. So far, I cannot get them via the Borg Red Alert daily. :disappointed:
    Try Binary circuit, Z. It's like one of those weird Japanese game shows where you have to clear an obstacle course.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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