One Cannon Confirmed for Star Trek Discovery

ryuranger

I was just watching Court Martial Episode of the Original Series and I notice Crew members from the Intrepid have the Delta Insinga as well So Discovery is following Cannon while still being its own Chapter in the Final Frontier

artan42

There's several such instances of the delta over TOS, TAS, ENT, and the KT. Sometimes fanbois don't have any legitimate criticism so they just make things up to complain about.

Also a cannon is a big gun. Canon is the system of determining what can be said to 'have happened'.

starkaos

Canon is that in the TOS era, each ship can decide their own insignia. If it looks similar to the Enterprise's insignia, then it is the captain's prerogative. Only after TOS was it established as the official Starfleet insignia.

artan42

starkaos wrote: »

Canon is that in the TOS era, each ship can decide their own insignia. If it looks similar to the Enterprise's insignia, then it is the captain's prerogative. Only after TOS was it established as the official Starfleet insignia.

Yeah, that's not canon. It was certainly never mentioned on any TV show including TOS, the background for TOS from the costume designer indicated the different badges were for different branches, and again, contradicted when Starfleet personnel other than the Enterprise crew wore the delta.

The idea each ship had its own is simple fanon.​​

starswordc

> @starkaos said:
> Canon is that in the TOS era, each ship can decide their own insignia. If it looks similar to the Enterprise's insignia, then it is the captain's prerogative. Only after TOS was it established as the official Starfleet insignia.

No, canon is that the delta is the branch insignia for starship-based personnel; there were separate badges for station and merchant marine personnel as well. That was producer intent and it was reasonably consistent. However, William Theissman, the costumer for TOS, made a few errors such as giving USS Exeter its own unit patch.

http://www.startrek.com/article/starfleet-insignia-explained

jonsills

The "different insignia for different ships" was a later Word-of-God rather than canon as such; and given that this particular God was well-known for retconning things from discussion to discussion, or even sentence to sentence, I'd give the canon greater weight.

artan42

starswordc wrote: »

No, canon is that the delta is the branch insignia for starship-based personnel; there were separate badges for station and merchant marine personnel as well. That was producer intent and it was reasonably consistent. However, William Theissman, the costumer for TOS, made a few errors such as giving USS Exeter its own unit patch.
http://www.startrek.com/article/starfleet-insignia-explained

That's also not canon even though it was the original intention. You could wangle things a little where both the delta and the chevron were generic Starfleet symbols (the chevron appears in ESD, on some of the Defiants crew and on the nacelles of most ships) and that the Anteres insignia was an older version of the cargo fleet, later phased out and replaced with the Huron version. However the Exeter and Decker really need some stretches to fit in.​​

mustrumridcully0

The end result is that canon examples are inconsistent. This happens. It seems that with Discovery (and I think also the Kelvin Timeline) they are settling for it being a Starfleet-wide logo.

artan42

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

The end result is that canon examples are inconsistent. This happens. It seems that with Discovery (and I think also the Kelvin Timeline) they are settling for it being a Starfleet-wide logo.

Predates the KT. The Kelvin itself used the delta.

starkaos

artan42 wrote: »

starswordc wrote: »

No, canon is that the delta is the branch insignia for starship-based personnel; there were separate badges for station and merchant marine personnel as well. That was producer intent and it was reasonably consistent. However, William Theissman, the costumer for TOS, made a few errors such as giving USS Exeter its own unit patch.
http://www.startrek.com/article/starfleet-insignia-explained

That's also not canon even though it was the original intention. You could wangle things a little where both the delta and the chevron were generic Starfleet symbols (the chevron appears in ESD, on some of the Defiants crew and on the nacelles of most ships) and that the Anteres insignia was an older version of the cargo fleet, later phased out and replaced with the Huron version. However the Exeter and Decker really need some stretches to fit in.​​

Since canon is unwilling to explain such inconsistencies, then it is up to fanon. It is easy to say that it is a mistake, but the fact that Exeter has its own unique insignia is canon. If a new remastered TOS version comes out with all alternate Starfleet insignias converted to the Delta insiginia, then it would be the new canon.

Star Trek fans are known for creating fanon to explain inconsistencies in the show. A better fanon explanation is that in the TOS era, every ship that has a Delta insignia is under the command of a particular Admiral or Commodore while the Exeter is under the command of a different Admiral or Commodore. After all, it explains why certain ships have the Delta insignia and others don't.

angrytarg

artan42 wrote: »

That's also not canon even though it was the original intention. You could wangle things a little where both the delta and the chevron were generic Starfleet symbols (the chevron appears in ESD, on some of the Defiants crew and on the nacelles of most ships) and that the Anteres insignia was an older version of the cargo fleet, later phased out and replaced with the Huron version. However the Exeter and Decker really need some stretches to fit in.

True, but I consider it good enough. It is impossible to address a costume error in actual canon as the mistake itself is not part of that universe (as in: "Oh, Chief O'Brien, that was a blast getting demoted yesterday, eh?" - that's nonsense ). The creator/license holders have no other way to acknowledge an error other than official channels, which is this. Hence, no unique badges for the Exeter and Decker - this is at least way easier than to create fanon theories that have just as little meaning.​​

artan42

Decker was wearing his own custom badge to knitted himself and Kirk didn't have the heart to tell him off.

angrytarg

artan42 wrote: »

Decker was wearing his own custom badge to knitted himself and Kirk didn't have the heart to tell him off.

But he was so proud, despite all the loose threads sticking out ​​

artan42

The way I figure it works is that the insignia in the TOS era is a bit like the different uniforms in late TNG, early DS9, and all of VGR.

Starfleet
The standard Starfleet symbol is the delta going back to the UESPA however there's also what I'm calling a chevron apearing on the Starbase wall in 'Court Martial', as the pendents on nacelles and Some of the crew of the Defiant . To me these are analogous to the uniform of TNG where a different insignia would be worn on the uniform on DS9 to the one worn on TNG, hence why some members of the Defiant's crew have either the delta or the chevron.

Cargofleet
Why do the crew of the Huron have a different insignia to those of the Antares? Simple, they're wearing different uniforms. The Antares crew are still stuck in the Cage era uniforms (oh look, another reason why it's perfectly fine the DSC crews aren't in Cage uniforms) with that eras version of the Cargofleet insignia, whereas the Huron's crew are wearing a TOS style version.

Outpost crew
As well has having a mustard coloured uniform the different badges here, I assume are analogous to the coexisting TNG and DS9 style uniforms or these guys are the TOS versions of the guy on the right (not left), Thrust Barcode and his league of G-Men, or everybodies favourite Space NINJAS!!.

Starfleet Command
Starfleet command seems to have it's own insignia worn by cadets or anybody working for Command. This isn't entierly analogous to any uniform changes in TNG but considering there's about 6 different admirals uniforms and about 4 or 5 different cadet uniforms (more if we include Wesley's jumpers) between TNG and NEM there's not too much stretching here.

Decker
Considering what I said about the vast array of admiralty uniforms available in TNG it could be possible Decker is wearing a insignia used by admirals on active duty, not working at Starfleet Command. It does look kinda like the sunburst cut into quarters so it looks kinda like a delta.

USS Exeter
I got nuffink. I can't really think of a way this can fit. I'm happy personally to just draw it up to the same errors that make O'Brian a lieutenant one episode, and ensign the next, then some unspecified 'chief' (he's both transporter chief and chief of operations, I don't think it was supposed to be a rank), then finally some really specific form of Petty officer that only exists in the American military all whilst never having been an officer.

USS Bonaventure
Oh dear gods, don't even ask. First starship with warp drive (if we're generous with the interpretation here, this places it after ENT but pre-KEL and DSC so probably contemporaneous with the Daedalus)
resembling a TOS style ship with chevron markings with this member of the Delta Triangle's council presumably a member of the crew wearing a TOS style uniform in white next to a Tellarite and a Gorn also wearing their TOS costumes.​​

angrytarg

@artan42 I'd largely agree. Most of this is confirmed in the "about Starfleet insignia" bit of Startrek.com - I wouldn't put the Outpost uniform in any special field of task, it was simply phased out. The special "tactical" gear is always worn by regular officers for a job, it's not a special branch or anything.

The only thing that's not really fitting is the Defiant's chevron, but I guess it's also a costume error. If not closest I'd think is it's some kind of marker for a major branch of Starfleet, like the Exploratory Division or Corpse of Engineers or something.​​

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

@artan42 I'd largely agree. Most of this is confirmed in the "about Starfleet insignia" bit of Startrek.com - I wouldn't put the Outpost uniform in any special field of task, it was simply phased out. The special "tactical" gear is always worn by regular officers for a job, it's not a special branch or anything.

Maybe this is only worn by normal officers in certain environments?

angrytarg wrote: »

The only thing that's not really fitting is the Defiant's chevron, but I guess it's also a costume error. If not closest I'd think is it's some kind of marker for a major branch of Starfleet, like the Exploratory Division or Corpse of Engineers or something.

It's simply a more angular version of the 'boomerang', I don't have a problem with it being used alongside the delta as a bog standard symbol because both the chevron and delta are derived from the UESPA logo. Again, I see it as analogous to the TNG (delta on a circle) vs. DS9/VGR (delta on an open rectangle) combadges existing side by side. Homefront and Generations show the DS9 style badge used on the TNG uniforms and I'm sure background characters will show he reverse as well due to costuming availability and reuse.​​

legendarylycan

it's corps, you swine! not corpse - BAD TARG!​​

artan42

shadowfang240 wrote: »

it's corps, you swine! not corpse - BAD TARG!

No it's not, they wear red or yellow shirts. It's corpse .​​

angrytarg

Naw, that's the mirror universe branch, because they don't live that long. XD

Heh, no idea how that happens. Sometimes I just exchange phonetically similiar words without noticing it.