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Sector space needs more LIGHT!

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  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    spockout1 wrote: »
    Maybe a touch more light, but not very much.

    I think sector space needs more color and life, but the SHIPS are what really need more light.

    Like this.

    Or this.

    hmm this actually works, ship lights would be better than giving space more light.

    Ive actually wanted literal ship lights that work since forever to be honest.
  • dkeith2011dkeith2011 Member Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I would gladly support a moderate increase of ambient light levels in sector space.

    My ship is my character and I would like to see it as much as possible.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 12,955 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    phresko wrote: »
    It's also big, Really big!

    How big is it?
    pulldownyourpantsandslideontheice-001.jpg~original
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Guys, I think it's time to face it :

    While there are some beautiful aspects to the new sector space , the Art team is infected with the same hypocrisy we've seen from Cryptic in other departments .

    On one hand, we have the extra care that went into the placement of planets in the new sector space , or the revamp of the DS9 space zone, or the Voyager Master System Display -- and OTOTH we get the idea to get "creative" with how Star Trek starships look while they fly in space .

    And when they get called on it ... -- well, so far we're in the "we've done no wrong" stage .
    That's cool .
    That's even expected .

    Denial can be a wonderful thing , and certainly nothing should shake it .
    Not evidence from the shows, or the last 5 years of the game , nor even this silly notion that currently we got three representation's of our space avatars (ships) looking completely different from each other :

    - zone's (bright)
    - sector space (dark)
    - missions where our ships are lit up like in zones except no sun is seen anywhere . (bright)





    ... but who care's , right ? let's turn Star Trek into the visage of darkness of our choice ... , and if we grasp at straws we can even justify it ... , as there was that one starless ep. in Voyager ... , and look at Generations ... -- and please ignore the 98% of established visuals from hundreds of hours of television & movies ...

    Taco has admitted to having numerous conversations with YOU on this very topic. So what this comes down to is YOU cant deal with being told NO. So now youre on a campaign to paint Taco as if hes just like Geko.

    I really do hope no one listens to you.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    After watching my son play his Rom earlier, with the Reman skin, I could barely see his ship moving in Sector Space. Granted, he only has a GT 730 card on his computer but I would never pay to play a game where I cannot even see my ship moving around half the time.

    It really needs to be lightened a little.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,986 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    After watching my son play his Rom earlier, with the Reman skin, I could barely see his ship moving in Sector Space. Granted, he only has a GT 730 card on his computer but I would never pay to play a game where I cannot even see my ship moving around half the time.

    It really needs to be lightened a little.

    Reman and Romulan ships are supposed to be barely visible.

    Honestly, though... if this many people legitimately think sector space should be brightened, I would at least consider the possibility of adding a graphics slider specifically for that -- if it were doable. But I'm not an environmental artist, so I couldn't say.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,834 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Taco has admitted to having numerous conversations with YOU on this very topic. So what this comes down to is YOU cant deal with being told NO.

    Hey I still harbor hopes for seeing the old STF's again or having decent PvP again .
    If you think that I give up just because I hear a "I know better" attitude , well ... that's your issue I'm afraid .


    So now youre on a campaign to paint Taco as if hes just like Geko.

    If you think Geko is in any shape or form "the worst of the worst" , you're deluded .
    He's just stubborn (among other things) , and he can see his preferences as being the "best" .
    (looking @ you Excelsior )

    Seeing the same trait in Taco does little to compare between the two .




    ... in fact the only one who made that comparison is you ...
  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Hey I still harbor hopes for seeing the old STF's again or having decent PvP again .
    If you think that I give up just because I hear a "I know better" attitude , well ... that's your issue I'm afraid .





    If you think Geko is in any shape or form "the worst of the worst" , you're deluded .
    He's just stubborn (among other things) , and he can see his preferences as being the "best" .
    (looking @ you Excelsior )

    Seeing the same trait in Taco does little to compare between the two .




    ... in fact the only one who made that comparison is you ...

    Again. You cant take the word No.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited April 2015
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Hey I still harbor hopes for seeing the old STF's again or having decent PvP again .
    If you think that I give up just because I hear a "I know better" attitude , well ... that's your issue I'm afraid .


    I believe what I told you last time was not "no," but "I want to wait and see how people feel about it more than a day or two after launch."

    I'm sure I'm biased here, but that doesn't sound like "I know better," that sounds like, "Let's see how this shakes out a bit before knee-jerking back the way it was."


    So far, I am continuing to hear mixed reviews. Some people like it darker, some people don't. I don't see a preponderance on either side.

    In the interest of compromise, I've upped the ambient lighting a bit. It is still darker than old sector space, but lighter than it is now. I've also increased the brightness of the light put out by stars, and increased that light's radius by a hundred feet or so (roughly 1LY). I'm afraid I don't know exactly when that will make it onto Holodeck, but can we lay off the accusations until then, at least? I'm ok with people expressing their feelings about the light in sector space. I'm not ok with being called a hypocrite for doing my job.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
    19843299196_235e44bcf6_o.jpg
  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    I believe what I told you last time was not "no," but "I want to wait and see how people feel about it more than a day or two after launch."

    I'm sure I'm biased here, but that doesn't sound like "I know better," that sounds like, "Let's see how this shakes out a bit before knee-jerking back the way it was."


    So far, I am continuing to hear mixed reviews. Some people like it darker, some people don't. I don't see a preponderance on either side.

    In the interest of compromise, I've upped the ambient lighting a bit. It is still darker than old sector space, but lighter than it is now. I've also increased the brightness of the light put out by stars, and increased that light's radius by a hundred feet or so (roughly 1LY). I'm afraid I don't know exactly when that will make it onto Holodeck, but can we lay off the accusations until then, at least?

    Hey, despite all the hate. I've really liked seeing yours and other devs continued responses on these issues. Honestly, sector space looks great to me and I like that my Rom ship is nearly invisible in space. That's what is supposed to happen from my perspective.
    edbf9204-c725-4dab-a35a-46626a4cb978.jpg
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I like the contrast that the darker ambient lighting gives, but it might be a bit too dark for my tastes currently. I'm curious what your changes will look like.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    I believe what I told you last time was not "no," but "I want to wait and see how people feel about it more than a day or two after launch."

    I'm sure I'm biased here, but that doesn't sound like "I know better," that sounds like, "Let's see how this shakes out a bit before knee-jerking back the way it was."


    So far, I am continuing to hear mixed reviews. Some people like it darker, some people don't. I don't see a preponderance on either side.

    In the interest of compromise, I've upped the ambient lighting a bit. It is still darker than old sector space, but lighter than it is now. I've also increased the brightness of the light put out by stars, and increased that light's radius by a hundred feet or so (roughly 1LY). I'm afraid I don't know exactly when that will make it onto Holodeck, but can we lay off the accusations until then, at least? I'm ok with people expressing their feelings about the light in sector space. I'm not ok with being called a hypocrite for doing my job.

    Sorry people are giving you a hard time. One of the issues I've noticed is that ships- especially older ships, don't have their running lights working properly or providing enough (or any) light. If ships would actually light themselves up with running lights like the new ones/canon ones do, it'd mitigate a lot of the issues I feel.
  • therealmttherealmt Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    I believe what I told you last time was not "no," but "I want to wait and see how people feel about it more than a day or two after launch."

    I'm sure I'm biased here, but that doesn't sound like "I know better," that sounds like, "Let's see how this shakes out a bit before knee-jerking back the way it was."


    So far, I am continuing to hear mixed reviews. Some people like it darker, some people don't. I don't see a preponderance on either side.

    In the interest of compromise, I've upped the ambient lighting a bit. It is still darker than old sector space, but lighter than it is now. I've also increased the brightness of the light put out by stars, and increased that light's radius by a hundred feet or so (roughly 1LY). I'm afraid I don't know exactly when that will make it onto Holodeck, but can we lay off the accusations until then, at least? I'm ok with people expressing their feelings about the light in sector space. I'm not ok with being called a hypocrite for doing my job.

    Have you checked if bloom still works in sector space?
    The background nebulas used to give some sort of bloom effect from the post processing, it doesnt seem as bright anymore.

    I just came back to the game and I was not really annoyed by it that much. Im more annoyed on how dark space around earth is now when orbiting. :C
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hizenburghizenburg Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I like my ship sailing through the blackness only to be revealed by a keen eye that spots the deck and navigation lights. With only the brilliance of oncoming stars fully illuminating her to the worlds that she approaches
  • solidneutroniumsolidneutronium Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    How many lights are there in sector space?
    Professional Slider Since 2409

    Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    How many lights are there in sector space?
    400 or 500. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    How many lights are there in sector space?

    Five lights!
    edbf9204-c725-4dab-a35a-46626a4cb978.jpg
  • solidneutroniumsolidneutronium Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    teknesia wrote: »
    Five lights!
    Ding! Right answer.
    Professional Slider Since 2409

    Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
  • cecil08cecil08 Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »

    So far, I am continuing to hear mixed reviews. Some people like it darker, some people don't. I don't see a preponderance on either side.

    Count me on the side of people that like it darker. I really don't see how people get so worked up over something so trivial to the game play itself.

    Also, I really don't see why you keep coming to the boards, Taco. Just seems like nothing but aggravation.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    cecil08 wrote: »
    Count me on the side of people that like it darker. I really don't see how people get so worked up over something so trivial to the game play itself.

    Also, I really don't see why you keep coming to the boards, Taco. Just seems like nothing but aggravation.
    Imagine you are playing LotRO and you cannot see your character walking in the woods, or riding his horse. Would it be trivial as long as he is not going to be attacked? Maybe, but you still like to be able to see the ship you just paid $30.00 for flying around. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • unotetsuunotetsu Member Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Darmok, his sunglasses on...

    :cool::cool::cool::cool:
    I must warn you, I am quite Isane! 25sa7h2.jpg I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,049 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    I believe what I told you last time was not "no," but "I want to wait and see how people feel about it more than a day or two after launch."

    I'm sure I'm biased here, but that doesn't sound like "I know better," that sounds like, "Let's see how this shakes out a bit before knee-jerking back the way it was."


    So far, I am continuing to hear mixed reviews. Some people like it darker, some people don't. I don't see a preponderance on either side.

    In the interest of compromise, I've upped the ambient lighting a bit. It is still darker than old sector space, but lighter than it is now. I've also increased the brightness of the light put out by stars, and increased that light's radius by a hundred feet or so (roughly 1LY). I'm afraid I don't know exactly when that will make it onto Holodeck, but can we lay off the accusations until then, at least? I'm ok with people expressing their feelings about the light in sector space. I'm not ok with being called a hypocrite for doing my job.

    Considering opinions are mixed about the "issue" (personally, I like it how it is), would it be possible for a department to create something (like one of those devices that can stay in the inventory and still being used) to allow players to have invisible light sources making the ship more visible?
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • freakiumfreakium Member Posts: 411 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I personally like it. Yes, it is dark because you're flying in deep space. But the shows always have well lit ships right? True for the most part but to me, those ships were mostly shown inside a system, next to a planet, etc.

    Yes, the keyword is "mostly" and there are plenty of times where they are smack dab in the middle of nowhere warping from point a to point b so what I said is moot.

    _____________________________________________

    Regardless, to fix all this, there should be a simple compromise. Add a toggle option in the general or video settings along the lines of "illuminate player vessels in sector space". Those that like the darkness of space can keep it turned off. Those that like a more "true to the show" feel can check the toggle. Win-win!
    m12Pkoj.png
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Imagine you are playing LotRO and you cannot see your character walking in the woods, or riding his horse. Would it be trivial as long as he is not going to be attacked? Maybe, but you still like to be able to see the ship you just paid $30.00 for flying around. :)

    Sure, but you can see your ship just fine if you're next to any star in sector space, or in any system or mission map.

    This is ONE place in the game that is dark. And it is a place where you are not going to be attacked.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
    19843299196_235e44bcf6_o.jpg
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,893 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I honestly didn't notice it was darker at all. *shrugs*

    I can see my ships fine in sector space.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,862 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Just watch some Voyager episodes. The ship always has a light reflection off its lower hull, like the ship was always somewhat near a sun.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,834 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »

    In the interest of compromise, I've upped the ambient lighting a bit. It is still darker than old sector space, but lighter than it is now. I've also increased the brightness of the light put out by stars, and increased that light's radius by a hundred feet or so (roughly 1LY).

    While I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the first two changes , the last one is ... , well its something that I've only seen you talking about (as an issue) .

    Meaning that I'm not sure if other ppl consider getting their ships to "light up" for a moment as they pass a solar system in sector space to be much of a deal breaker .
    I think most of the talk is about the consistent lighting of our ships in sector space .

    BTW, would it be possible to enlarge the contact / interact zone around all the solar systems in sector space ?
    Right now, (especially with smaller ships) , your ship stops next to a destination / system and you often have to start to fly forward for a bit before the contact / interact button of said system pops up .
    This is but an annoyance y but it may be more of a problem for new players who may reach a destination and start to ask themselves "what now?" , as no interaction is forthcoming .
    Currently you sometimes have to fly around / above / below the sector space sun to get the interaction to trigger .


    I'm afraid I don't know exactly when that will make it onto Holodeck, but can we lay off the accusations until then, at least? I'm ok with people expressing their feelings about the light in sector space. I'm not ok with being called a hypocrite for doing my job.

    Fair enough .

    But it's up to you to figure out which is worse -- announcing some changes after said accusation, or having that accusation be based on actual changes in your artistic motivation ("realism" vs " it is like the show ") . If it's any consolation , the majority of my immediate family are artists of various types, and both through them and through their circles of friends / associates, I have an inkling of what some refer to as " suffering for their art" . I'm saying this because I want you to understand that while I may at times say my criticism in softer tone to them, I wouldn't shy away from using more words to dance around, but ultimately arrive at such potent issues as what I noted as "hypocrisy" to you . And with them, as with you, I don't see it as (like you said) "doing your job" . I see it as changing the tune to reflect & support the end result . In our case, a vastly darker sector space .





    ... but that observation is nothing more or less than what it is . It's up to you to regard / disregard it , but as it has moved away from an established line, the choice to change (and the reason behind the change) will be speculated , nitpicked and accused ... :)
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Sure, but you can see your ship just fine if you're next to any star in sector space, or in any system or mission map.

    This is ONE place in the game that is dark. And it is a place where you are not going to be attacked.
    But it is still the place we want to be able to see our ships. :)

    I do not have major issues with my Fed ships because I like to use the white skins - plus I have a decent video card on my computer. But I could barely see my son's Rom ship using the Reman skin. Granted he is not using a great card but he still wants to be able to see his ship flying around. Right now he has disabled the Astrometrics just so he can clearly see his ship. No one should have to do that, IMO.

    At the end of the day I do not watch Trek for realism - nor do I play STO for realism. Just like we can always clearly see the NX, Enterprise, Defiant, or Voyager flying through space we should be able to clearly see our ship flying around. I play STO to feel Trekkie - I want it to feel like what I see on the TV or movie screen. If I want realism I will go and play a different game.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • sargon999sargon999 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I think sector space is great. Sure it needs a little tweaking (very minor) in my opinion. yea... maybe a smidge more light can help. I know this may never be considered .... but I really think the suns just get too huge on approach! I think they need to keep the planets in the systems exactly the way they are now but use the suns from the old sector space map. Think about it. You will never actually fly into the suns/stars in sector space anyway so the perspective would be correct. Just a thought. Taco - you guys did great! Keep up the good work!!
  • c0mmandersamc0mmandersam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    If you look in your video settings, there is a setting that changes the light. I clicked it and applied it and wow I lit up sector space nicely. I even flew around a bit and started the episode Delta Flight. But when the map tried to switch, I was kicked out. Coincidentally, the DDoS message showed up on the launcher when I tried to log in. But now I cannot log in and I am getting a 3d graphics error.

    Fatal Error: Direct3D driver returned error code (D3DERR_INVALIDCALL) while while creating a render target texture.

    Technical details D3DERR_INVALIDCALL while creating 2D render target texture size 6144 x 20148 (RTEX_NVIDIA_INTZ, usage 6, 0 samples, GS N. Failed surface 0x3efced0 "dir shadowmap" 2 0x11c.) Intel® HD Graphics Family

    Note the while while is what was on the screen.

    So I am hoping that someone with a great deal of computer knowledge can help me. Did I mess up by changing the setting or did STO mess up in their coding? How can I fix it?

    Thanks for all any help offered!
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