Do not get g13 nirvy daggers, its weak
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Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »240 mill is barely any money these days.
Soloing tt 3rd act for instance easily nets me 50 mill a day. I only get 4 nirvy keys a day and i have to pay 5 openers so tt is actually more lucrative.
Also your 240 mill amount is highly inflated. 100 raps can be bought at 1.5 each and two socket 99 daggers are about 10-20 mill depending on socket stone cost an luck. About 22 mill for transferr stones if bought on sale. So generally speaking g13 double sockets are under 200mill. If you don't care about the second socket they are more like 160 mill.
I have squaded with some good sins that had +10 rank 8 and I wouldn't say they sucked damage wise, they were not any better than g13.
The idea that nirvana is a waste of money is a matter of opinon an not one that the majority share.
Lol. When you already have the gear, it's easy to farm it. Understand what I just said?
Compare it to this dilemma: jeez if I had r8 i could solo FC and get to 100 in a jiffie, but I need to be level 100 to use R8. You pretty much just said that. Only like this. Jeez, if I had +10 refines on my armor and +12 G13s I could farm G13s in a jiffie, but I need G13's to do that.
Way to make a pointless post mr awesome sauce.
And of course the price is inflated, this whole discussion started before the 24 days of 2x was announced. People arent paying 2.2mil for raps anymore. Thanks for another pointless argument. And no one ever said R8 is better than nirvana, we said theyre virtually equivelant to nirvana dps wise, and free. Assuming you count the cost of R8 as being for the chest, and the dags are a free bonus, and since the tome will be required for end game anyways, that isnt an additional cost compared to going G15. There are a lot of technicalities that have already been brought up in this discussion that you clearly missed.
So again, thanks for your pointless post, it means a lot to us. Although, none of us care if you can solo 3-x, so stop bringing up every opportunity you get.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »Ofc, you can use genie. I do so too, but you can't negate that using genie for chi means you can't use it for something else. Thus, needing to use your genie for chi represents a sort of opportunity cost.
Well of course I use my genie for other things, but not in nirv I don't. I use tangling mire, AD if shiit hits the fan, and cloud eruption for when I get sealed and dont have 3 sparks. Fortunately shiit rarely hits the fan. Leaving me with a perfectly fine genie to fill the spot of that missing aps.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well of course I use my genie for other things, but not in nirv I don't. I use tangling mire, AD if shiit hits the fan, and cloud eruption for when I get sealed and dont have 3 sparks. Fortunately shiit rarely hits the fan. Leaving me with a perfectly fine genie to fill the spot of that missing aps.
Yeah, the fact you use genie for chi instead of something else applies most when you solo something (not talking directly about 3-x, but just when you are alone). In nirvana, there is a 95% chance someone else will mire and/or poison/subsea. A lot also depends on the speed of the squad. I got a special genie for nirvana, and usually I spark + (inner harmony) sage subsea, and use genie for enrage and mire if nobody else hit that.
But it's just a fact that, if you solo something, being able to keep your genie at enough energy to AD or ToP does give some ensurance, or being able to spam poison making it faster then using it for chi, etc etc.
To resume, I consider G13 and r8 pretty much equal in terms of dps since the difference is so small that a crit or not optimal spark-timing can flip the situation. I see 2 main arguments in favor of G13 :
- Objective and rational argument of a little more chi gain at (pretty much) same dps, for several reasons detailed above by me and several others. This is the counter part of the argument of choosing r8 when you like a better dph for the (pretty much) same dps.
- The irrational reason related to the common vision by a dumb playerbase that by default favors the highest aps number. Therefore, having G13 will result in easier vana/bh invites. Even though this is not rational at all, it is the reality ingame. So making money becomes much easier with G13, but it comes with an initial investment cost. This is the counter part of the argument of choosing r8 because it's pretty much free as initial investment, if you consider r8 top as a "must have" armor part. I don't consider either reasoning is more cost-efficient the other, even in case aiming for r9 as ultimate weapon. Indeed, all depends on how long you will use the "intermediary" weapon. When planning on getting all armor to +10 with optimal shards, the time can be (I say "can be", because all depends on personal choices here) long enough to have a +/- 200 mil weapon return it's investment. Besides, there might also be a social advantage in being known as "pro DD" (i.e. part of the high aps club) before actually getting r9.
Ofc, this is all just regarding weapon and dps only. In reality, there is way more to take into account. Budget, wanting/not-looking to solo, armor, pk or not, tw or not, vana or tt, other characters on same account, etc etc. There are a lot of personal factors in gearing up a character.0 -
The main reason that I have not bought rank 9 yet is because I am outfitting my wifes bm with very awesome gear. With my g13 I have not really found anything that requires any better so havent really felt a pressing need to own any better. My g13's have assisted me in farming atleast 2 billion coins. They are cleary not weak, nor inferior.
I am not saying rank 8 is not a good investment, however it is noticably not as good at building chi which is important for soloing. Sure you could use skill for chi, but those skills are slow an will get you hit more, also it means those skills arent powering your sub sea an powerdash.
Sure rank 8 is the better option if your very poor, but if your very poor wanting to make a farming alt- should make a cheap bm. As for why so many noobs have g13's, thats very easy to answer....It's because sins like me who had g13s an awesome gear before rank 9 was even available inspired 80% of the noobs who are making sins today.0 -
Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »The main reason that I have not bought rank 9 yet is because I am outfitting my wifes bm with very awesome gear. With my g13 I have not really found anything that requires any better so havent really felt a pressing need to own any better. My g13's have assisted me in farming atleast 2 billion coins. They are cleary not weak, nor inferior.
I think here everyone, except the op, agrees on. But that doesn't mean they are "superior"...Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »I am not saying rank 8 is not a good investment, however it is noticably not as good at building chi which is important for soloing. Sure you could use skill for chi, but those skills are slow an will get you hit more, also it means those skills arent powering your sub sea an powerdash.
If you can "waste" chi on pd and ss, it isn't all that important after all no?
How does using dragonstrike or inner harmony make you get hit more? It will make you heal less, but in the end, all that's needed is to get your hp back up before next boss hit. I don't think you really see how a dph weapon like rank8 makes using a skill less "dangerous". On just the skill, rank8 will heal a lot more.Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sure rank 8 is the better option if your very poor, but if your very poor wanting to make a farming alt- should make a cheap bm.
This made me lol b:laugh Bm is definately not a cheap farming alt, unless you mean herb-farming. To solo TT, any class needs good gear. To enter nirvana, bm also will get asked for aps and weaponlink.
You could say, maybe, a veno is cheap. If you look at only the strictly necessary skills, and the fact nobody asks for weaponlink. But then again, it's sage/demon amp that makes them wanted, and lvling pets takes a hell lot of time.Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »As for why so many noobs have g13's, thats very easy to answer....It's because sins like me who had g13s an awesome gear before rank 9 was even available inspired 80% of the noobs who are making sins today.
b:cool Sins like me, that were r8 before they started to put it in the cashshop for a few gold, inspired even more noob sins b:victory (the part of being r8 before 1st sale is not-sarcasm btw)
I really think you're flattering your ego a bit to much b:chuckle
But seriously, are you suggesting that a sin with g13 is noob if they can't solo tt? And that you were soloing 3-x with you lvl60 rank top, just because you had g13 nirvana daggers? I think you didn't even understand what really allows you to solo 3-x... Which is kinda sad for someone who presents him/her-self as an example for the whole sin population.0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »I think here everyone, except the op, agrees on. But that doesn't mean they are "superior"...
If you can "waste" chi on pd and ss, it isn't all that important after all no?
How does using dragonstrike or inner harmony make you get hit more? It will make you heal less, but in the end, all that's needed is to get your hp back up before next boss hit. I don't think you really see how a dph weapon like rank8 makes using a skill less "dangerous". On just the skill, rank8 will heal a lot more.
This made me lol b:laugh Bm is definately not a cheap farming alt, unless you mean herb-farming. To solo TT, any class needs good gear. To enter nirvana, bm also will get asked for aps and weaponlink.
You could say, maybe, a veno is cheap. If you look at only the strictly necessary skills, and the fact nobody asks for weaponlink. But then again, it's sage/demon amp that makes them wanted, and lvling pets takes a hell lot of time.
b:cool Sins like me, that were r8 before they started to put it in the cashshop for a few gold, inspired even more noob sins b:victory (the part of being r8 before 1st sale is not-sarcasm btw)
I really think you're flattering your ego a bit to much b:chuckle
But seriously, are you suggesting that a sin with g13 is noob if they can't solo tt? And that you were soloing 3-x with you lvl60 rank top, just because you had g13 nirvana daggers? I think you didn't even understand what really allows you to solo 3-x... Which is kinda sad for someone who presents him/her-self as an example for the whole sin population.
This razorburn sounds like a cashshopper to me. Has his gear and doesnt even understand what it is about his character that allows him to solo TT3-x
Hes just "I have g13 and because I have G13 i can solo TT3-x, im so cool look at me, OMG whered my credit card go!!?!?"
And Razor wtf is a cheap Bm farming alt? alts are only cheap if you have a main and you sell its gear to fund your new farming alt b:chuckle
Oh and another question Razor, if 5 aps is so important for survivability and getting 3 sparks sooner, how come youre blowing that extra spark on PD and SS? Sounds like you mean to say more chi = more chi DD skills = more DD power = faster runs. Not necessarliy more survivability. And just because R8 has less chi therefore less chi ability doesnt mean it all of a sudden cant be done... You say chi si super important then go on to say you use it for DD skills, not extra immunity.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »This razorburn sounds like a cashshopper Oh and another question Razor, if 5 aps is so important for survivability and getting 3 sparks sooner, how come youre blowing that extra spark on PD and SS? Sounds like you mean to say more chi = more chi DD skills = more DD power = faster runs. Not necessarliy more survivability. And just because R8 has less chi therefore less chi ability doesnt mean it all of a sudden cant be done... You say chi si super important then go on to say you use it for DD skills, not extra immunity.
Well, with 5 aps you get the choice to either spark earlier and spend more time in immunity and get more spark heals or you can spark later and have more chi to spend on other things. Which of the two you choose would depend on situation and personality.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, with 5 aps you get the choice to either spark earlier and spend more time in immunity and get more spark heals or you can spark later and have more chi to spend on other things. Which of the two you choose would depend on situation and personality.
In squad, I totally agree.
On soloing, I think it's a little more subtile. You won't cast subsea or powerdash in the middle of your spark, cause it messes up the auto-attacks and thus heals. Skills should be cast, if possible, before or after sparking. Which would get 4 or 5 aps in the exact same boat : Spark => inner harmony => pd/subsea.
On the bosses where chi becomes an issue (stuns, seals, sleeps, etc), that little more aps is an advantage. The chance of getting your permaspark broken, even with skills, is smaller. Maybe even to the point that you can use genie for tangling mire or something, instead of chi. But from there to saying it's that 5 chi extra per sec that enables you to solo something or not, is way exagerated imo.0 -
Sure I cash shop sometimes, mostly I farm 3rd act tt and nirvana though. I have been playing roughly 20 hours a week since april 09 and like most I have end game characters of pretty much every class. I know enough about the game to kill most anything I feel like killling.
If your not using powerdash an sub sea then your not really killing things near your potential an your dagger choice won't matter nearly so much. Lots of bosses are better off getting killed quicker rather than later.
G13 is not weak as the op stated and does have advantages over rank 8 dagger. It is not an economy dagger for sure, an it is a personal choice wether those advantages are worth the price.
To the guys a couple topics above-If it nerfs my chi gain enough that I cannot powerdash/subsea and perma spark, then that is a clear cut example of it nerfing your damage output.The rank 8 dagger suffers the disadvantage of its slowness.0 -
Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sure I cash shop sometimes, mostly I farm 3rd act tt and nirvana though. I have been playing roughly 20 hours a week since april 09 and like most I have end game characters of pretty much every class. I know enough about the game to kill most anything I feel like killling.
If your not using powerdash an sub sea then your not really killing things near your potential an your dagger choice won't matter nearly so much. Lots of bosses are better off getting killed quicker rather than later.
G13 is not weak as the op stated and does have advantages over rank 8 dagger. It is not an economy dagger for sure, an it is a personal choice wether those advantages are worth the price.
To the guys a couple topics above-If it nerfs my chi gain enough that I cannot powerdash/subsea and perma spark, then that is a clear cut example of it nerfing your damage output.The rank 8 dagger suffers the disadvantage of its slowness.
razor let all those pu$$ys talk and hating on you , you do it right who cares about cash shop or not i mean when u can spend money into it its ur thing not ours,
Sure you paying for Pixels but since it makes fun you dont do any wrong its nothing else when i spend like 400$ to drive to Disneyworld one week or spend 400$ into pwi and have longer time profit with it lol.You got trolled
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Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »everytime someone puts a DoT in a weapon god kills a kitten..... think of the kittens
I have DoT in both sets of daggers... and the difference in how fast I kill mobs is amazing. I can kill Slash in FC before he even gets close to the first slash.
As far as for the question at hand, I think its up to the Sin and their play style and what works for them.0 -
Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »I have DoT in both sets of daggers... and the difference in how fast I kill mobs is amazing. I can kill Slash in FC before he even gets close to the first slash.
As far as for the question at hand, I think its up to the Sin and their play style and what works for them.
DoT's in weapons have nothing to do with play styles, it's ****ing ****.0 -
to be good assasin u need uber gear to play or can normal sin with normal armor ans stuff do some good thigs too.just asking never made an assasin.but if i see what it gonna cost ya omg
thought this was a free game lol jk.But rlu can normal sin do nice thing aswell instead be uber geared sin.i play for free dont cashop etc .try make my own money in game instead using real money. plz answer so i dont waste my time to make a sinb:thanks 0 -
Sure you can do fun things with any class regardless of coin/money. However the lack of uber gear will definitely limit what you can do. I wouldn't expect to solo tt3rd act or even trio/duo/solo nirvana without a pretty good investment in uber gears.0
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The only reason why i got the niv dagger is that i bought 100 rap for 170k each. Someone didnt check their price when they are selling them. So it was dirt cheap for me.0
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This is of course all bull....G13 has always an is a fine endgame dagger..It is worth getting.
It is not necessarily the "best", but it is certainly good enough an certainly one of the "best"0 -
Why are we necroing this? b:surrender
Lucky b@stard....MyLeftNut - Heavens Tear wrote: »The only reason why i got the niv dagger is that i bought 100 rap for 170k each. Someone didnt check their price when they are selling them. So it was dirt cheap for me.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
MyLeftNut - Heavens Tear wrote: »The only reason why i got the niv dagger is that i bought 100 rap for 170k each. Someone didnt check their price when they are selling them. So it was dirt cheap for me.
Thats so ****ed. I'd feel bad ripping him off because of his stupidity. But I'd do the same thing :c[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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