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When to pass a spark, and to whom?

Perikita - Raging TidePerikita - Raging Tide Posts: 74 Arc User
edited May 2010 in General Discussion
I occasionally pass a spark to the tank, or to the cleric if he has BB on, but I really don't know... Is there a way I can see who needs a spark? Or do I pass it as soon as I have it? Or, is it common that ppl ask for chi? I've had the latter one a few times and this is easy, but usually noone says anything, not even a thanks if I passed all my sparks as soon as I get them. What's the most reasonable approach here? And are there situations where I keep my spark (or my two sparks) to deal more damage?
Post edited by Perikita - Raging Tide on

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  • AlbireoTwo - Lost CityAlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I don't usually get passed sparks, so I have no clue.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost CityMichael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's really just best to ask. Or tell them to ask you if/when they want one.
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  • Tisa - DreamweaverTisa - Dreamweaver Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I occasionally pass a spark to the tank, or to the cleric if he has BB on, but I really don't know... Is there a way I can see who needs a spark? Or do I pass it as soon as I have it? Or, is it common that ppl ask for chi? I've had the latter one a few times and this is easy, but usually noone says anything, not even a thanks if I passed all my sparks as soon as I get them. What's the most reasonable approach here? And are there situations where I keep my spark (or my two sparks) to deal more damage?

    It depends where you're at.
    On your average boss i give 1 spark to the barb and the occasional spark during clearing mobs. You dont' need to spam sparks to the barbs all the time since they can work perfectly fine even without a veno. Mostly i do it to prevent QQ from them anyway (i got a barb myself and i know how much chi you use/generate *shakes fist*).

    I only give sparks to the cleric if they specifically asked to do so or we're in a place where i know they'll neet to work with BB (Frost for example). You spark them after they set it up usually.
    Same goes for archers if they have to work around with Barrage and need the occasional spark here and there.

    If i'm squaded with a very offensively capable squad, i'll usually send a spark over to the BM so he can use his HF as much as possible.

    You'll also need some extra chi once you hit 79 with 2 debuff skills. If the squad you're with doesn't seem very reliable it's also good to keep 2 sparks (or close to 2 sparks) for Brambe Hood. You definitely don't need to randomly spark people around on cooldown...chances are they are at full chi and you accomplished nothing anyway.
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Tanks can always use sparks, so if you're ever unsure, toss one to the tank, unless they're a demon fist BM. Pretty sure sins can generate chi like nothing else so they should be fine. Tossing a spark to a wizzie, psy or archer is a pretty bad idea unless the tank is damn good at holding agro. You shouldn't need to give sparks to a BB cleric unless the boss has an interrupt aoe, or they're using normal mana pots (you can tell if their mana gradually drops dangerously low). And passing sparks to a DD BM isn't always a bad idea if they're smart enough to put them to good use and use HF or Myraid (depending).
  • MystiMonk - SanctuaryMystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Clerics first though we can always use spark.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Psytrac - DreamweaverPsytrac - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,488 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Tossing a spark to a wizzie, psy or archer is a pretty bad idea unless the tank is damn good at holding agro.
    or if they ARE the tank
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    In TT a herc veno that is tanking can send sparks to DD. Otherwise send sparks to barb or a BB cleric.
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  • Vitenka - DreamweaverVitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    My rules of thumb:

    If the cleric puts up a BB then throw them a spark so that they can put it up again if it goes down.

    If someone asks for a spark and I'm not saving it then throw them it.

    The big firey dragon effect is the BMs way of saying "I just used a spark", everyone else look for the spark eruption.

    Some barbarians complain about not having enough sparks but don't have an obvious visible effect, so you pretty much have to rely on them asking.
    Or remind them that they have a skill which is a damage shield (magic only) AND builds chi and they should be using it.
  • axt57axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    When a barb attacks a boss, he usually does invoke spirit, which needs 2 sparks.

    The animation is like a yellow lotus with a guy on top. When you see this, pass a spark if the boss is a hard one.

    Always pass a spark to cleric when **** hits the fan, they may be a spark short of BB which can prevent a lot of squad wipes. Obviously if cleric drops BB while in combat for some reason, pass a spark immediately.

    Don't pass sparks to DD's, you can DD well enough with your own spark. BMs can usually build chi quickly themselves, especially if fist BM.

    If asked for a spark, gauge the situation before giving it. I have had lvl 8x wizards asking me, a very well equiped lvl10x veno, to pass a spark for them to DD.
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  • Basingeth - Lost CityBasingeth - Lost City Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    When a barb attacks a boss, he usually does invoke spirit, which needs 2 sparks.

    The animation is like a yellow lotus with a guy on top. When you see this, pass a spark if the boss is a hard one.

    Always pass a spark to cleric when **** hits the fan, they may be a spark short of BB which can prevent a lot of squad wipes. Obviously if cleric drops BB while in combat for some reason, pass a spark immediately.

    Don't pass sparks to DD's, you can DD well enough with your own spark. BMs can usually build chi quickly themselves, especially if fist BM.

    If asked for a spark, gauge the situation before giving it. I have had lvl 8x wizards asking me, a very well equiped lvl10x veno, to pass a spark for them to DD.



    The only time a barb should use invoke right off is if its a world boss or one of the really hard hitting bosses. Any barb that has to open with invoke needs to raise their defense. That chi is better used for aggro.
  • Vitenka - DreamweaverVitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    The animation is like a yellow lotus with a guy on top. When you see this, pass a spark if the boss is a hard one.

    I have never ever ever seen a barb actually use this attack.
  • axt57axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have never ever ever seen a barb actually use this attack.

    You probably have, just havn't noticed - its not an attack, but rather a 90% damage decrease. Many barbs start TT bosses this way, especially if the boss has hard hitting magic.

    Anyway the skill is quite obvious, and generally you should pass a spark if you see a barb perform it.
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  • Vitenka - DreamweaverVitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    You probably have, just havn't noticed - its not an attack, but rather a 90% damage decrease. Many barbs start TT bosses this way, especially if the boss has hard hitting magic.

    Anyway the skill is quite obvious, and generally you should pass a spark if you see a barb perform it.

    Fair enough. Rarely do barbs tank TT for me.
  • Nannako - Lost CityNannako - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have never ever ever seen a barb actually use this attack.
    Some refer to this as Turtle. You can also look next to the tanks name. A little picture of a turtle will come up. My hubby uses it alot if he's tanking a boss and i need a break from healing or just to give me time to heal the rest of the party or to seal and what not. b:chuckle

    As said by many others i usually try to pass spark after i see this:

    1) to a barb after i see turtle go up

    2) to a cleric as soon as bb goes up (just in case anything happens, they will have 2
    sparks to throw it up again to save our skins) (

    3) where BM is tanking instances/aoeing mobs so he can use HF as much as possible

    4) anyone who requests it and i have any to give.

    Only thing frustrating is when people want sparks and i have none to give becuase i love my nova b:pleased
  • XanZerstorer - DreamweaverXanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    As a veno I tend to pass sparks to the tank unless asked; so every now and then I end up passing it to BM, or cleric... I know in FC most venos pass it to the clerics to put BB down faster. As a BM, I end up with sparks a lot, but then again I tank a lot, and most venos who team up with me do it. I'm always surprised when I have a random veno passing me sparks though...
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  • Katzyn - SanctuaryKatzyn - Sanctuary Posts: 1,270 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I always pass sparks to the tank, regardless of the class, unless I know the cleric has to BB, then I ask first, see if the cleric needs sparks, otherwise, the tank gets all my sparks. This goes for all bosses and mini-bosses - anything that takes more than a few seconds to kill.

    When I zhen with my cleric friends, I give sparks to them.

    I only give sparks to DDs IF they ask, and if I have the utmost confidence in the tank (and with the people I usually squad with, I trust our tank with my life XD).
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  • tweakztweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's all situational. Lower level FF where they kill so slow: clerics will want sparks (if not 2 clerics to trade off duties). Some have Master Li's Technique, and other recovery methods. Some classes don't realize that we need sparks / chi for some things also (2 sparks just for parastic nova). Gotta love it when 2 toons are begging for sparks at the same time because they weren't thinking ahead. If only everyone would just get cloud eruption.
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  • drjiggledrjiggle Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I pass sparks in the obvious situations already mentioned: BB, barrage, turtle, etc. Otherwise I keep them unless you ask. If you don't need the spark badly enough to ask for it, then you don't need it badly enough for me to click the button. A lot of players don't seem to realize that:

    a) I can't tell how much chi you have, and if I pass it to you when you didn't need it, the spark is wasted. I still lose it, you don't gain it.

    b) There is a 1 minute cooldown on Lending Hand, and I only have 3 sparks total. I can't pass sparks to the whole squad every 30 seconds. If someone else (including me) needs it more, you're not getting one. Deal with it.
  • Solandri - Heavens TearSolandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Anyway the skill is quite obvious, and generally you should pass a spark if you see a barb perform it.
    Actually, I assume the barb is going to open with some chi-consuming skills to quickly build up aggro. I pass them a spark as soon as I've finished debuffing a boss. After that it depends on what skills they use and if they ask for it.
    drjiggle wrote: »
    b) There is a 1 minute cooldown on Lending Hand, and I only have 3 sparks total. I can't pass sparks to the whole squad every 30 seconds. If someone else (including me) needs it more, you're not getting one. Deal with it.
    Level 99 Lending Hand has a 15 sec cooldown. Once you hit level 90, do Cube every day. You get a page of fate for finishing. 30 of them (one month) will get you one of 5 random level 99 skills, one of which is Lending Hand. So it's essentially free. You will want it anyway because the Sage/Demon versions have a chance to give you an extra spark if you use it on yourself.
    axt57 wrote: »
    If asked for a spark, gauge the situation before giving it. I have had lvl 8x wizards asking me, a very well equiped lvl10x veno, to pass a spark for them to DD.
    Also, folks asking for sparks need to realize that the veno has to be in caster form to use the skill. I have a heavy veno who is mostly in fox form. Fox form has a 6 sec cooldown, so if I have to pop to caster form to pass a spark, we're losing 6 sec of my damage. That pretty much makes it pointless for me to pass sparks to DDs. And don't be so daft as to ask for a spark if I'm tanking or I'm spam-healing my herc.
  • Armsman - ArchosaurArmsman - Archosaur Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have a related question...

    I usually toss sparks to the tank as soon as I get them on bosses. What I'm worried about though is that I don't toss them enough on TT or FB69 bosses.

    Basically, if I keep casting Ironwod Scarab (the pdef debuff) as soon as it's available, it is practically impossible to generate another spark. That means that I could only toss out 3 sparks during the fight.

    So my question is, for these bosses do I just forget about using Ironwood Scarab so that I can continue tossing sparks around?
  • Susylu - Heavens TearSusylu - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,786 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have a related question...

    I usually toss sparks to the tank as soon as I get them on bosses. What I'm worried about though is that I don't toss them enough on TT or FB69 bosses.

    Basically, if I keep casting Ironwod Scarab (the pdef debuff) as soon as it's available, it is practically impossible to generate another spark. That means that I could only toss out 3 sparks during the fight.

    So my question is, for these bosses do I just forget about using Ironwood Scarab so that I can continue tossing sparks around?

    you shouldnt have a problem with getting sparks from using it...

    maybe ask the party? i'm sure everyone has a different opinion. also if there's a cleric in your party it'll be better if they used their debuff anyway provided both are maxed.
  • Tisa - DreamweaverTisa - Dreamweaver Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have a related question...

    I usually toss sparks to the tank as soon as I get them on bosses. What I'm worried about though is that I don't toss them enough on TT or FB69 bosses.

    Basically, if I keep casting Ironwod Scarab (the pdef debuff) as soon as it's available, it is practically impossible to generate another spark. That means that I could only toss out 3 sparks during the fight.

    So my question is, for these bosses do I just forget about using Ironwood Scarab so that I can continue tossing sparks around?

    Like i said earlier, you do not need to constantly spam sparks to the tank. Usually 1 or 2 sparks per boss are enough. Barbs can handle tanking perfectly fine without a veno as well, an extra spark is just a convenience and not a necessity. They got a nifty skill called Beastial Rage which generates them some chi every time they get hit.
    Also, at 79 you will get two Myriad debuffs that both require 20 chi which essentially means you use up around 1 spark per 30 seconds yourself for debuffing purposes. You cannot forget about Ironwood (or Myriads later on) for the sake of sparking someone all the time. They do not need it and you're gimping your squads damage output if you can't keep up with your debuffs. A spark at start and one inbetween if longer fight or barb uses turtle is enough.
  • tweakztweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Once you hit level 90, do Cube every day. You get a page of fate for finishing. 30 of them (one month) will get you one of 5 random level 99 skills, one of which is Lending Hand. So it's essentially free.

    Wtf? Cube is an expensive boring time killer (far from free).
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  • Maiya - Lost City Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cube is actually how I make my money. Selling the boxes and pages. The only real problem with utilizing the page method for the Venomancer skills is that most of the skills you can get out of it suck.
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  • Solandri - Heavens TearSolandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Basically, if I keep casting Ironwod Scarab (the pdef debuff) as soon as it's available, it is practically impossible to generate another spark. That means that I could only toss out 3 sparks during the fight.
    Ironwood's importance depends on the group's makeup. If it's caster heavy, then you can probably forego it. If it's melee heavy, then it's probably more important to keep it on. The decision becomes easier once you hit 89. If you go Sage, Ironwood will last 20 sec thus allowing you to build sparks. If you go Demon, then Ironwood becomes an all or nothing armor break, so it'll be someone else's responsibility to keep a pdef debuff applied.

    Clerics get a pdef debuff which maxes out at 40% (same as Sage Ironwood), but it comes at the cost of lowering their pdef as well. So it can't be used in physical AOEs, and is rather dangerous when fighting multiple mobs. Barbs get a better pdef debuff (50%) but costs 35 chi every 10 seconds. It also reduces the target's attack level, reducing the damage everyone takes. If the barb can keep it up with you passing chi to them, you're better off letting them debuff while you spam chi-building skills.
    tweakz wrote: »
    Wtf? Cube is an expensive boring time killer (far from free).
    It's long and boring in the 50s-70s. In your 90s (when you'll start thinking about the level 99 skills), it takes me about 20 min to complete on average. And I actually make money off of it. I usually get 5-10 chips per run, which mostly pays for the dice ticket cost. The boxes you're forced to buy in certain rooms will sell on a cat shop for about twice what you paid for them. And I keep robber and bully cards on a mule, but a friend just ports out when he gets those rooms and sells the 9 cards to cat shops for a lot more money than the cost of the dice tickets he used to end up in those rooms.

    The only real expense I have in the Cube is do-all cards. And that's mostly because I refuse to PK in the PK rooms. I still have to skip room 47 (last 100 sec stand), but from what I hear it can be completed consistently in your high 90s and 100. Otherwise, the Cube is a nice way to make money.
  • Ninnuam - SanctuaryNinnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Barbs tanking a boss should NOT need sparks. Flesh ream, normal attack, normal attack, flesh ream is enough to keep them topped. Throw in alacrity/frighten/beastial rage or something from time to time and they'll have moar chi than they can spend. That is, unless they're spamming Devour which they shouldn't be next to a veno or a cleric.

    However, barbs tanking multiple mobs with a DD party (lunar comes to mind) need sparks as soon as you can build them if they are to keep aggro.

    If they're idiots and open up a boss fight with invoke spirit they should be bishslapped for wasting 2 sparks like that.

    As for clerics, pointless to pass them sparks just because they threw up a single bb. Clerics build chi insanely fast in PvE; heals, attacks, debuffs, whatever we do generates chi. The only time a cleric should need sparks is if a boss has a bb interrupt skill (that WB near avalanche comes to mind >_>). Mobs in frost should drop fast enough to render bb useless (except for two or three rooms where its safer to bb).

    In TT, if a herc is tanking a boss throw sparks to the best DD you got, usually demon archer or a high level wizzie so they can abuse sparks and ultis.

    If a barb is tanking, odds are they'd steal aggro with constant sparking so prolly safer not to pass them sparks in that case.

    That about covers it methinks.
    b:dirty
  • kenleekenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    If they're idiots and open up a boss fight with invoke spirit they should be bishslapped for wasting 2 sparks like that.
    you have no idea how many clerics dont stack heals before or they just wait for tank to get low hp in the beginning... seen many barbs died like that. there is nothing wrong preventing that

    oh and in TT wiz is the most useless class imo, better to pass chi to better classes
  • axt57axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Lots of barbs also have little faith in clerics and want to reduce charm ticks so they open up with invoke.

    I have seen invoke save some barbs actually - so I don't blame them.
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  • jaeseujaeseu Posts: 420 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well perhaps the barb should learn to wait up for the cleric before rushing off towards the boss...if they wait for the couple stacks of heals, they won't have to use Invoke. s: Either that or ask if they are ready...and if not, oh well, their charm to waste and sparks.
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