PWI Preventing Botting Discussion.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

ello~
(^.^)
Me are the magic hamster.
and this be a discussion on botting in general, feel free to state what you believe, think about, etc. Just keep it clean please. b:thanks

Okies, me wish to encourage more people to step up and to maintain PWI's gameplay in general.

Here at PWI me are limited in what me can do as me are only one hamster.

along with that since me only play in the Lost City server, me can only reduce the botting population of Lost City.
b:surrender

So,
1st: me won't release explicit details as to specific locations, ways to bot, etc....
2nd: me wish to ask others where (if any) they has seen suspicious people and activities.
3rd: me will post ways of detecting if others be botting or not.

Okies~ what be botting?
Botting be when people use programs to literally grind for them.
Seems harmless yesh? but botting messes with all aspect of any game since:
1: The person botting pretty much gets a free high level character by doing literally nothing themselves.
2: The in game economy/Gold prices suffers as the moneys the botters get can be used by them to buy stuff.

Signs of Botting.
So....you has found a suspicious individual....mayhaps they has been grinding on the same place for hours, mayhaps the way they heal appears to be suspicious, mayhaps you just sense something fishy.
1. Best way to begin be to whisper them to check if they be there.
2. Try to discern patterns in their actions....mayhaps they automatically pop a potion when a certain % of their HP be missing. mayhaps they auto heal their pets or themselves faster then be humanly possible. Even mayhaps the way they pick up their loots have some sort of robotic 1-3 second pause in between. and mayhaps they take about 3 seconds to target a new target and for some weird reason they target stuff that be straight above them or something strange that normal people don't do.
3. (Pretty much applicable only for PvP server) When you attack them, they do not respond, their preset healing protocols kick in, and they still don't answer you....well it be pretty obvious that you has found a bot at this point. *Note that you will get colored named since it involves attacking another person. Please prepare accordingly*
*PM me for examples and please do not discuss the examples in thread.*

How to gather teh evidences,
Me prefer to gather the video evidences as me can show definitive proof that they be botting. (Xfire or Fraps can work)
However, screenshots can get the job done as well.
Just ask them if they be there, if you get no answers then......*continue reading*

Now what can one do about it?
1: First things first, whisper them to see if they actually be a person.
2: Please post places where you has seen suspicious activities, me will make characters on other servers as well in order to check it out.

If you be on PvP servers then you can check first hand by attacking them and seeing if their auto healing kicks in.
here be some examples.

Examples (Can only be done in PvP server)
[removed temporarily]

(me will possibly work on mayhaps making a reenactment or something...err might take a while. although me suppose me could figure out how to edit me videos enough so that me can show first hand examples.)
(>.<)'


Now then if you be in a PvE server, one can still find and report botters.
Simply see if they be behaving strangely, like...say moving like a robot straight to targets, healing automatically (and practically instantly, especially veno bots where some set it to instant heal)

So what do me do with the evidence me has gathered?
What you do is to submit a ticket containing the evidence you has gathered. (If it be video evidence then you should copy and paste a link in your message.)

But what if me accidentally report someone who merely disabled their whispers?
Well some people could disable General chat and others Whispers, but there could be those that disable both. (O.o)' in this case one should observe them for a while and if you be pretty convinced that they could be a botter and they do not answer, Then go ahead of submit a ticket with evidence. The GMs will come and check up on them. (Me has actually had an experience like that....where the suspected botter happened to be at their computer) Me had been assured it be okie to report suspicious behavior. it isn't anything wrong if you thought they be botting.


So.....you has reported a person who you am sure is botting and they has been gone....yet they keep coming back?
Don't give up!
http://support.perfectworld.com/violation
They can only bot for so long before they get perma banned.
(^.^)
*Me has asked a GM and they cannot discuss such information* :<
Also me are also aware that GMs can track items, coins, etc so even if they attempt to abandon ship then their ill gotten gains will disappear too.

PWE Customer Service:

"Your reports are very useful and is helping us in catching repeat offenders. Please continue your efforts to help keep our community clean and legit. Thank you again!"

so...any other questions?
me will keep updating as needed.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

*reserved*
d(^.-d)

Part of the reason me made this thread be to inform the general public....
partially so that people like this be aware of what me am doing lol. (what surprises me more is that she be on a PvP server...*lacking knowledge of the available types of PvP protection...or...what botting in general be lol...*)
but mainly since botting be wrong and against the Terms of Service.

#20
You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

* (a) WHEN USING THE SERVICES, THE SOFTWARE MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE SOFTWARE. AN “UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM” AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY “ADD-ON” OR “MOD,” THAT IN PWE’S SOLE DETERMINATION: (i) ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR **** THE SOFTWARE INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY PWE; OR

#11
(i) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
(k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;

(^.^)

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

I whispered someone recently who seemed like the most obvious botter imaginable and actually got a response. Go figure.

On the other hand, there's been a veno at the City of Lost foxwing suprme spawn (over desert of echo's) for close to a month now non-stop grinding, with a broken weapon, melee'ing mobs in foxform with a pet tanking. I should really go poke that person too sometime. o.O

The only problem is asking someone "are you a botter" usually gets you verbally abused to heck if it turns out they aren't. ....In which case you end up reporting them for swearing and abusive language instead.

eatwithspoons

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I whispered someone recently who seemed like the most obvious botter imaginable and actually got a response. Go figure.

On the other hand, there's been a veno at the City of Lost foxwing suprme spawn (over desert of echo's) for close to a month now non-stop grinding, with a broken weapon, melee'ing mobs in foxform with a pet tanking. I should really go poke that person too sometime. o.O

The only problem is asking someone "are you a botter" usually gets you verbally abused to heck if it turns out they aren't. ....In which case you end up reporting them for swearing and abusive language instead.

My thing in game is, if I'm not a botter, why get offended? No need to get yourself reported just because someone had the courtesy to CHECK before they reported you, right?

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Just a question, but if you believe someone is definitely botting (as in a completely identical pattern without pause for hours on end) but you get a reply, what can you do about it, if anything? Is it actually legal to use programs to grind for you if you're at the keyboard? (For example, they could be watching youtube and checking back every 5-10 minutes)

eatwithspoons

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just a question, but if you believe someone is definitely botting (as in a completely identical pattern without pause for hours on end) but you get a reply, what can you do about it, if anything? Is it actually legal to use programs to grind for you if you're at the keyboard? (For example, they could be watching youtube and checking back every 5-10 minutes)

I would say report them if you are 99% sure but you get a response, we can always check.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just a question, but if you believe someone is definitely botting (as in a completely identical pattern without pause for hours on end) but you get a reply, what can you do about it, if anything? Is it actually legal to use programs to grind for you if you're at the keyboard? (For example, they could be watching youtube and checking back every 5-10 minutes)

me has encountered a few of those kinds of botters and has successfully gotten definitive evidence that they be botting. (PvP server and all)
remember they still take reasonably long breaks in which you can check in on them.
and you should still report them....although me not quite sure how the GMs would figure out if they be botting or not...
b:thanks

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

eatwithspoons wrote: »

My thing in game is, if I'm not a botter, why get offended? No need to get yourself reported just because someone had the courtesy to CHECK before they reported you, right?

TBH people had better be 80-100% sure others are botting before a they pm and asks them. If not ofc a lot of players will get offended since a stranger is basically pming them and asking is they are cheating.

Astoru - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

me has encountered a few of those kinds of botters and has successfully gotten definitive evidence that they be botting. (PvP server and all)
remember they still take reasonably long breaks in which you can check in on them.
and you should still report them....although me not quite sure how the GMs would figure out if they be botting or not...
b:thanks

Well, if they know what they're looking for, finding a bot isn't too hard. Once they find a botting client, they can build a countermeasure.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

I was so happy when I started playing this game because there was no auto-target hotkey for bot programs to abuse, so naturally there were like 0 bots for the longest time. I wouldn't be surprised however if that changed severely given the new "bot-friendly" auto-target & key binding system.

I'm sure the GMs are much more informed on how bot programs work, but from everything I've read it's the auto-target feature that allows them to work.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

TBH people had better be 80-100% sure others are botting before a they pm and asks them. If not ofc a lot of players will get offended since a stranger is basically pming them and asking is they are cheating.

lol?
that be why me just ask
something along the lines of "Is you here?"
and if they answer me just give them a free healing/shiny hand buff....
b:chuckle
people appreciate it.
=p

and Kannone errr....like 90% of the videos me have of botters and stuff have been made BEFORE the expansion.
b:surrender
and there be ridiculously easy ways to bot without any auto targetting feature....
which me won't go into.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

and Kannone errr....like 90% of the videos me have of botters and stuff have been made BEFORE the expansion.
b:surrender
and there be ridiculously easy ways to bot without any auto targetting feature....
which me won't go into.

b:surrender I'm ignorant on how bots work... just that auto-target makes them 1000 times easier to employ b:shocked

Aadi - Lost City

When the game was first released I couldn't do my level 9 culti for my veno because there were 3-5 bots grinding on the mobs and they were killing them too fast.

Good times.

RedPeach - Lost City

*waiting for the removed part to be un-removed and the reserved post to get filled*

nice action Hamsta b:mischievous
I support this Thread 100%

MagicHamsta - Lost City

me will fill up me Original Post with more infos as me go on.
b:thanks
now then anyone find any suspicious bot like activities on their server? (please don't list names or faction here)
just say the location here and pm me their name.
b:puzzled
and me will think of someway to reenact a situation where me has found a botter or something.
b:surrender

Lulznotwar - Lost City

I know there has been a botter out on nightscream island on lostcity hamsta

its pretty good i should think for bot grinding seeing hardly anyone goes there, and mobs can be AoE'ed nicely and give good exp and drops b:surrender

Guildies have SS'ed and reported said person, if i see them again ill try the hamsta approach :P

might be out AoE grinding there later today

BeingHope - Harshlands

Wow I love this thread!

I never even knew there were bots in this game!

Or even knew what one was but beyond that point.... b:surrender

b:cute Good job raising awareness on this topic!
Totally support you! b:victory


Reminds me of this person I saw.... But never mind, didn't take screenshots or anything o.o

AnotherDay - Raging Tide

i would suport, but i came from a game were they were Determined on banning every bot that looked at the game, and inocent people would get banned. I say if they want to bot, let em. they are the one who tend to quit anyways.
just my 2 Cents b:surrender

tweakz

2nd: me wish to ask others where (if any) they has seen suspicious people and activities.

Yes, one use to approach the same mob in a straight line I was attacking and just stand there. It would also approach mobs and attack after it was hit. It would also stand over my drops .

1: The person botting pretty much gets a free high level character by doing literally nothing themselves.

Not far off from World Quest, and Zhen (for archers, clerics, and wizards).

Just ask them if they be there, if you get no answers then

I don't respond to more than half the messages I get. I'm there to play, not be exploited, harassed, confronted, etc. No response could mean: f* off.

1: First things first, whisper them to see if they actually be a person.

see above.

I reported someone who I was absolutely sure was botting, and was thanked for it. I've been in squads with this toon since. My experience with reporting botting, world boss luring (using environment to kill other toons), sexual harassment, etc with this company was a waste of my time. I suggest sucking it up and dealing rather than wasting your breath. Even forum trolls like tearvalerin aka wafflechan, they just give a new nick to and recycle them (see for yourself the last ~20 or so posts from this toon before they were banned and renamed). IDC if that's the way they do business, but they lost me as a paying customer, and they may as well encourage me to bot.

ps. I was in a Restaurant once explaining to a friend how much better the place could be if only.... The owner overheard me (didn't realize he was there) and got defensive rather than appreciating the feedback. He was hostile, dishonest, and confrontational. He could have hired me cheap to fix the problems, but instead lost me as a customer. Looks like a parallel here.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

I do appreciate botting is wrong and can make gameplay for others difficult, but... something sort of bothered me.

Now if you're pretty sure somebody has been botting, because they have been going at the same mobs for hours on end without a break and without seeming to socialize with anybody, by all means go ahead and ask them.
But there ARE some people who grind solo at such a pace you almost think they're botting. And these people don't always respond to others, either. I know sometimes if I'm grinding solo (very rarely, these days, but hey, I used to) I will ignore PMs - especially from random people. Because normally when a random person whispers me it's not worth my time to check out what they say, especially when I'm busy trying to level up.

So yes, 99% of the time you can use the "ask if they are there" method to get some form of definitive answer, but you do need to remember that if you aren't sure these people are botting and ask, they may simply be solo grinding and choose to ignore you as I know several people do.
Screenshots, filming and checking up on potential botters seems like a safer thing to do, even if it's just so you can be sure they are botting before you ask.

My two cents on the whole thing.
BTW, I do support this. Although that said, botters will be found out and booted eventually and will probably be the first people to ragequit when they let the bot play the game for them and never cared to learn themselves.

svedese

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

The only problem is asking someone "are you a botter" usually gets you verbally abused to heck if it turns out they aren't. ....In which case you end up reporting them for swearing and abusive language instead.

I been here from the very start of PWI. Every now and then random players have pmed me to see if i was there, over time that makes for perhaps 50-60 (can be more or less) players asking me direct or indirect if i be present.

I have not replied to anyone of them before (and not become angry with them either), and I see no reason to start answering them now. I'm not offended by players pming me and I see no reason why I shpuld reply just cause they might report me. So far I have not been reported and since I am a well known figure ingame, there is no reason to take these pms seriously. It's the GMs job to check these things.

Remember, with this thread you are making players scared (not offended) they be reported just because they never replies other players pms. By experience i can tell there is a high number of players that only replies to their friends (not even their own guild members). I am and never will promote cheating. This is just to show that if all these players had submitted a screen of pming me, their so called 'evidence screenshot' would be a lie in my case. Thats why no players should assume that no reply means botting or that the player not beeing present. GM: How can you tell if a player is present based on a screenshot? This is why we need ingame GMs.

b:thanks for listening in.

PS! Feel free to pm me anytime (i really don't mind) but be 100% sure you will only get reply if you sincerely want to be my friend or join my faction. Not replying to a fellow player is not violating TOS right GM? But not replying to a GM is.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

svedese wrote: »

I been here from the very start of PWI. Every now and then random players have pmed me to see if i was there, over time that makes for perhaps 50-60 (can be more or less) players asking me direct or indirect if i be present.

I have not replied to anyone of them before (and not become angry with them either), and I see no reason to start answering them now. I'm not offended by players pming me and I see no reason why I shpuld reply just cause they might report me. So far I have not been reported and since I am a well known figure ingame, there is no reason to take these pms seriously. It's the GMs job to check these things.

Remember, with this thread you are making players scared (not offended) they be reported just because they never replies other players pms. By experience i can tell there is a high number of players that only replies to their friends (not even their own guild members). I am and never will promote cheating. This is just to show that if all these players had submitted a screen of pming me, their so called 'evidence screenshot' would be a lie in my case. Thats why no players should assume that no reply means botting or that the player not beeing present. GM: How can you tell if a player is present based on a screenshot? This is why we need ingame GMs.

b:thanks for listening in.

PS! Feel free to pm me anytime (i really don't mind) but be 100% sure you will only get reply if you sincerely want to be my friend or join my faction. Not replying to a fellow player is not violating TOS right GM? But not replying to a GM is.

svedese, this be why me prefer video evidence.
tweakz, err botting be so much more different from WQ or zhenning since....
WQ doesn't give you free millions of coins and zhenning requires a full squad to set up.
and both can't be done while you sleep, eat, go out, etc. (well only 1 book of WQ lol)

Murloc/ - Heavens Tear82

I got asked once if I was botting on my veno (The towerlings around the tree near the swamp) I replied with surprise to the person saying; "No offense, but are you botting like a n00b? " and assured them that I was just timing my kills and kinda spacing out. They appologized and I went about my robot-like killing spree.

Moral of the story: Not everyone gets offended, some people like me are just lazy and machine like in our actions. lol

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

I caught a botter on NS Island. Actually I got rich taking all her drops for about 2 weeks. I was clearing, with drops and coins, 100K/hour. Every few hours she'd come on and accuse me of stealing her drops. I said yup I am. b:laugh

Strangely, her toon completely disappeared from the server shortly afterwards.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

=D
thanks everyone who posted so far.
(^.^)
me hasn't checked out NS as a possible place for botters.
but me will start patrolling there too as well.
=D

svedese

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

=D
thanks everyone who posted so far.
(^.^)
me hasn't checked out NS as a possible place for botters.
but me will start patrolling there too as well.
=D

GM, is patrolling to look for botters a violation of TOS?

Sounds to me like you go into GM territory here MagicHamsta.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

svedese wrote: »

GM, is patrolling to look for botters a violation of TOS?

Sounds to me like you go into GM territory here MagicHamsta.

Nope since me are not doing anything against the TOS and everyone has the right to travel.
me are merely questing (WQ takes me extremely close if not right past me patrol spots) and as for NS me happen to have BH79...so what if me decide to explore around and meet people while me head there?
b:chuckle

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear

So would I be considered a Bot, I don't answer PMs, why, I have it turned off when I grind, so Would I be botting if I do this, you can't just tell a person is botting because they don't answer. Cause I don't answer when I grind, I have my play list going and chat turned off and just go. Repair sucks after I do this though b:cry

MagicHamsta - Lost City

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So would I be considered a Bot, I don't answer PMs, why, I have it turned off when I grind, so Would I be botting if I do this, you can't just tell a person is botting because they don't answer. Cause I don't answer when I grind, I have my play list going and chat turned off and just go. Repair sucks after I do this though b:cry

no you wouldn't
._.' me pretty sure GMs would ask you. *Edited me Original post to include a section addressing said issue*
in me server me ATTACK the bot to make sure they be a bot....me pretty sure you don't stand still while getting attacked by another player.
b:chuckle

but in a PvE server that be the problem since yesh there could be people like you who don't answer PMs and all.
however when GMs Pm you me am sure you would respond to that.
b:chuckle

also don't worry you has merely been SUSPECTED of botting not confirmed as what me aim to do whenever me check for botters.

*also added in signs to look for section*

Slashreaver - Heavens Tear

you cant disable a gm tell and its pretty easy to see it. they will human check you themselves first before taking action.in pvp you can just kill the bot and laugh. in pve its not that easy.and genrely you can tell if its a bot just by watching it.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

seriously hamsta, I want a hamsta as my pet... a magical one will be double bonus (sounds familiar with the pet thing?)

On serious note, wehn I'm grinding to level up, i can ignore pms, faction chat and just concentrate on scouting the next target , gauging distance to new target etc.

The only thing I read will be my damage readout. Those wc and pms just aren't priority for me and I'm always in Ctrl f9 settings unless it's in dungeons.

so I do not care if someone else is botting around me.... it's their toon afterall.