PWI Livestream - Dragon's Conquest 1/22/16
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event is not designed to give a chance for everyone to attend it,
indeed there are 3 spots for each server which is deftly quite excluding already...
it just would be pointless if factions like Vindicate or QQme will end up facing 10-players factions that for some reason won the Dragon Conquest bid
this event is the ultimate competitive challenge that this game can offer us, the TW map requirement needs to be solid in order to preserve the competitiveness of this challenge itself
We have so few servers I imagine the restrictions to bid for Dragon Conquest are gone. The reason China has them is because they have like 50 servers iirc.
china doesnt have 1 cross server for the whole 52 servers, they are grouped 4 by 4 as well0 -
We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
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Will we be back to the originally stated 3-month TW reset after that?mintsummer wrote: »We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
Also, do you guys ever plan on doing the reset when it is supposed to happen at any point in the future?0 -
mintsummer wrote: »We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
This seems like a bad idea for a variety of reasons unless you guys are going to monitor fake bidding. I'd think lowering the land ownership req to like 2 lands on the normal tw map and removing the 12 land auto-lock in would be enough.0 -
null
I think it should actually more or less work, assuming they remove the quotas. Keep in mind there is a priority system when attacking which makes fake bidding kinda hard. On top of that the higher rank teritories require lower ones to attack anyway.0 -
mintsummer wrote: »We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
This seems like a bad idea for a variety of reasons unless you guys are going to monitor fake bidding. I'd think lowering the land ownership req to like 2 lands on the normal tw map and removing the 12 land auto-lock in would be enough.
+1
removing the land requirements can turn this event in another fakebid fest
factions with the richest players could just secure all the dragon conquest spots through fakebids, into force players to join them if they want to see Dragon Conquest instance from the inside...
it's not even confirmed how the bids will go through, whats the bid cap, what's the criteria for the 3 highest bidder to qualify for also which type of dragon conquest lands and what not,
please don't turn this event into a joke...0 -
gaborcika1 said:mintsummer wrote: »We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
This seems like a bad idea for a variety of reasons unless you guys are going to monitor fake bidding. I'd think lowering the land ownership req to like 2 lands on the normal tw map and removing the 12 land auto-lock in would be enough.
+1
removing the land requirements can turn this event in another fakebid fest
factions with the richest players could just secure all the dragon conquest spots through fakebids, into force players to join them if they want to see Dragon Conquest instance from the inside...
it's not even confirmed how the bids will go through, whats the bid cap, what's the criteria for the 3 highest bidder to qualify for also which type of dragon conquest lands and what not,
please don't turn this event into a joke...
Factions don't spam fake bids even remotely close to enough to completely lock out the normal TW server and it's orders of magnitude harder to do with the way the system works.
By my reading people don't attack specific lands. Rather they attack a type of land and then the one they actually attack if the bid is successful is randomized.
So first of all you can't fake bid level two or three lands at all because they require you to hold land to do so. You can try and fake bid to protect your level one land. However there are 32 level one lands so you're looking at dozens of max bids and even then it's random if it works. Even if we assume you get a 100% success rate with 30 bids and the max bid isn't any higher than on normal TW. That's 3b a week after rebate just on fake bits, you're almost surely losing heaps of coin. Some groups will have priority over your fake bids anyway in which situation it won't work at all. Not to mention if someone does spam fake bids it completely **** up the level one fights for everyone else which is much more likely to see punishment than normal fake bids because even a single instance causes heaps of problems.
Look, it could happen but it seems really unlikely and more sensible to change if and only if it becomes a problem.0 -
way too many factions on the 4 servers for that. keep a limit please.0
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Yeah there should be some kind of limit, I foresee a lot of unbalanced boring match ups.DarkSkiesx
Tideswell
Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
youtube.com/darkskiesx
http://mypers.pw/8/#3734570 -
I don't see any reason for random factions that can't field 2 squads to actually bid long term if they know they will lose. Outside of that the stronger factions should really be attacking the level two/three land so apart from the first week or two I see no reason for them to be fighting anybody who doesn't already have land.darkonome said:Yeah there should be some kind of limit, I foresee a lot of unbalanced boring match ups.
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standoffishman wrote: »
chary wrote: »
mintsummer wrote: »
We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
This seems like a bad idea for a variety of reasons unless you guys are going to monitor fake bidding. I'd think lowering the land ownership req to like 2 lands on the normal tw map and removing the 12 land auto-lock in would be enough.
+1
removing the land requirements can turn this event in another fakebid fest
factions with the richest players could just secure all the dragon conquest spots through fakebids, into force players to join them if they want to see Dragon Conquest instance from the inside...
it's not even confirmed how the bids will go through, whats the bid cap, what's the criteria for the 3 highest bidder to qualify for also which type of dragon conquest lands and what not,
please don't turn this event into a joke...
Factions don't spam fake bids even remotely close to enough to completely lock out the normal TW server and it's orders of magnitude harder to do with the way the system works.
By my reading people don't attack specific lands. Rather they attack a type of land and then the one they actually attack if the bid is successful is randomized.
So first of all you can't fake bid level two or three lands at all because they require you to hold land to do so. You can try and fake bid to protect your level one land. However there are 32 level one lands so you're looking at dozens of max bids and even then it's random if it works. Even if we assume you get a 100% success rate with 30 bids and the max bid isn't any higher than on normal TW. That's 3b a week after rebate just on fake bits, you're almost surely losing heaps of coin. Some groups will have priority over your fake bids anyway in which situation it won't work at all. Not to mention if someone does spam fake bids it completely **** up the level one fights for everyone else which is much more likely to see punishment than normal fake bids because even a single instance causes heaps of problems.
Look, it could happen but it seems really unlikely and more sensible to change if and only if it becomes a problem.
its 32 lands \ 4 servers = 8 lvl 1 lands per server
its 3 weekly slots per server to access Dragon Conquest
you just need some faction players to keep max bid with alt factions for the weekly 3 slots and gg wellp
refund is 100% so hypotetically and potentially the same faction can bid, seize and mantain control of the Dragon Conquest lands at no expense by just max fake-bidding with alt factions
pls no.
if territory wars is the last competitive challenge we have in this game,
cross server territory wars should be for the elite being the very ultimate competitive challenge
i dont want to see factions that cannot compete on normal TW map, appear on the cross-server TW (Dragon Conquest) and give a poor challenge.
this event it is not designed for those kind of factions, pls reconsider the land requirement thanks.0 -
mintsummer wrote: »We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
Thanks @mintsummer exactly what we wanted to know and the kind of info we need.
Updates FAQ.0 -
I was assuming that if they removed the land requirement they'd remove the 3 factions per server that don't already hold land part. Even if they don't however how does taking up your own servers 3 slots actually help you? You will most likely be placed against people from other servers or people already on the map. Also that's far more than 3 bids required as it will be selected randomly. Also where are you getting 100% refund on successful bids from?gaborcika1 said:standoffishman wrote: »
chary wrote: »
mintsummer wrote: »
SNIP
its 32 lands \ 4 servers = 8 lvl 1 lands per server
its 3 weekly slots per server to access Dragon Conquest
you just need some faction players to keep max bid with alt factions for the weekly 3 slots and gg wellp
refund is 100% so hypotetically and potentially the same faction can bid, seize and mantain control of the Dragon Conquest lands at no expense by just max fake-bidding with alt factions
pls no.
if territory wars is the last competitive challenge we have in this game,
cross server territory wars should be for the elite being the very ultimate competitive challenge
i dont want to see factions that cannot compete on normal TW map, appear on the cross-server TW (Dragon Conquest) and give a poor challenge.
this event it is not designed for those kind of factions, pls reconsider the land requirement thanks.0 -
its written in the npc, and some GM even confirmed it somewhere but i am not sure this GM confirmation i've been told about it
problem is its 3 slots per week, if all factions will go for max bid, the max bididng factions for those 3 slots will be chosen at random,
chances are non competitive factions that will max bid can succeed and go for the Dragon Conquest lvl 1 land seize, into fakebid with an alt faction the week after to mantain control of that land permanently
we need those no-land alt\fake\whatever you can call them factions to not be able to join Dragon Conquest...
at least put 2-3 lands on tw map as a requirement0 -
What i am reading on this thread about cross tw's is concerning me deeply.
First of all cross server tw's are supposed to be for top faction of all servers to go against each other and fight from what we have been told at start.
There are a few points/concerns that i would like to get some more info on regarding what was said here:mintsummer said:We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
1) No land requirement to join - In my opinion this is one of the biggest problems and one thing that can completely destroy this event , what it was meant to be and what it should be. We weren't told what's the max amount of coins that can be bid on the land but what you fail to realize is that there are more then 50 people across 4 servers that have over 10bil of coins , if refund is 100% what is to stop people from bidding on for cross tw's with alt factions to prevent or lower the chance to participate. Lets say that it's 1bil ok that puts even more factions/people to bid and join cross server tw's = way more chance for people to fake bid with alt factions to manipulate or just mess with someone to stop them from joining cross tw's.
So what china did here is actually really good , 12 land requirement for auto qualify (It doesnt have to be 12 it can be less) and in my opinion the factions that wanna bid on cross tw's should have at least 3 (lowered from 5) lands on the map and maybe the faction that won the tw season on each server should auto qualify so that wining regular tw season actually means something and that the reward for it is useful for once? And someone said that since we have so few servers compared to china that land requirement should be removed is my reasoning to keep it , if it gets removed its easily manipulated
2)Time slot - I know that is really difficult to make it work for everyone and saturday/sunday look like really best options here but as what i see from some comments that someone posted to make it east coast time slot is ridiculous simply because 95% of EU player base will not join the event at that time, so best time slot to work for everyone in a way seems to be current NW time slot.
3)Available slots per server - This continues on my first concern, if it is true and there is only 3 slots per server removing land requirement will make this into a complete disaster since factions with 5-10 people if one of them is rich enough will be able to bid and take 1 slot , if someone bids with alt faction that will take 1 slot as well and if on each server there are at least 6-7 factions that are looking into applying for the event and with alt factions that makes it possibly around 15 bids for only 3 slots , even if the slots per server are removed that doesn't solve any real problem with this event since 15 bids per 4 servers is 60 for 32-34 slots? And if that happens there is a huge possibility that factions for which this event was made (top 5-8 factions of each server) dont even get a chance to participate on this event.
I am really hoping that @mintsummer or @thenamesdomino reply to my comment and as i feel that majority of the pwi community is on the same page as me and shares most of my concerns regarding the event take this to higherups and work out something that will prevent the said problems from happening.
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Can't believe I read it all.sin20 said:What i am reading on this thread about cross tw's is concerning me deeply.
First of all cross server tw's are supposed to be for top faction of all servers to go against each other and fight from what we have been told at start.
There are a few points/concerns that i would like to get some more info on regarding what was said here:mintsummer said:We removed the China bid requirements. Under current plan, any faction can participate the Dragon Conquest LV 1 territory war sign up. Therefore, yes we will have TW map reset along with DC launch. And yes, all cross server events will take place on Sat and Sun for most players convenience.
This is what could happen most likely. But let's take patch note as final words.
@thenamesdomino gimme the winner list of livestream!
1) No land requirement to join - In my opinion this is one of the biggest problems and one thing that can completely destroy this event , what it was meant to be and what it should be. We weren't told what's the max amount of coins that can be bid on the land but what you fail to realize is that there are more then 50 people across 4 servers that have over 10bil of coins , if refund is 100% what is to stop people from bidding on for cross tw's with alt factions to prevent or lower the chance to participate. Lets say that it's 1bil ok that puts even more factions/people to bid and join cross server tw's = way more chance for people to fake bid with alt factions to manipulate or just mess with someone to stop them from joining cross tw's.
So what china did here is actually really good , 12 land requirement for auto qualify (It doesnt have to be 12 it can be less) and in my opinion the factions that wanna bid on cross tw's should have at least 3 (lowered from 5) lands on the map and maybe the faction that won the tw season on each server should auto qualify so that wining regular tw season actually means something and that the reward for it is useful for once? And someone said that since we have so few servers compared to china that land requirement should be removed is my reasoning to keep it , if it gets removed its easily manipulated
2)Time slot - I know that is really difficult to make it work for everyone and saturday/sunday look like really best options here but as what i see from some comments that someone posted to make it east coast time slot is ridiculous simply because 95% of EU player base will not join the event at that time, so best time slot to work for everyone in a way seems to be current NW time slot.
3)Available slots per server - This continues on my first concern, if it is true and there is only 3 slots per server removing land requirement will make this into a complete disaster since factions with 5-10 people if one of them is rich enough will be able to bid and take 1 slot , if someone bids with alt faction that will take 1 slot as well and if on each server there are at least 6-7 factions that are looking into applying for the event and with alt factions that makes it possibly around 15 bids for only 3 slots , even if the slots per server are removed that doesn't solve any real problem with this event since 15 bids per 4 servers is 60 for 32-34 slots? And if that happens there is a huge possibility that factions for which this event was made (top 5-8 factions of each server) dont even get a chance to participate on this event.
I am really hoping that @mintsummer or @thenamesdomino reply to my comment and as i feel that majority of the pwi community is on the same page as me and shares most of my concerns regarding the event take this to higherups and work out something that will prevent the said problems from happening.
1) Not "No land requirement to join" : factions with 0 territory can sign up -- but not guaranteed to get into the war. factions with 2 territories will be auto qualified. Well, to make this requirement is not that easy. Based on how China and Taiwan performed, this seems to be an "OK" requirement to start. We will keep adjusting it until it reaches the balance point.
2) Yes, it is. NW will be merged into 1 battle on Sunday, reward will be doubled.
3) Not only 3 slots. Much more than that to make sure most factions on each server would get a chance to participate.
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probably they failed something, like they did on livestream and that is why they keep with 0 lands.
Also even 2 land is a joke because in first weeks after reset all alts faction have 2+ lands on map because of the pve tw...0 -
no patch notes yet AT ALL .... still soo many ppl doing the QQ thingy already ... w/o even knowing how the event is gonna lay out ...0
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There are so many things wrong with this post.no patch notes yet AT ALL .... still soo many ppl doing the QQ thingy already ... w/o even knowing how the event is gonna lay out ...
1. Patch Notes are never released until the maintenance window that the patch occurs. (Has been the norm since 2008, with a few exceptions where we didn't get patch notes, but it was either just a boutique update, or very minor localization.)
2. PWE doesn't post anything more than what PW-CN/Wanmei gives them to post in the patch notes.
3. Since when have we ever gotten a new expansion with full instructions? (The correct answer is never.)
We get more info from the guys n gals translating the Wanmei China website with Google, and that's not PWE's fault either. They don't have the information to give. With this livestream, you probably got more information than we've ever been given before about an upcoming patch.0 -
mintsummer wrote: »Can't believe I read it all.
1) Not "No land requirement to join" : factions with 0 territory can sign up -- but not guaranteed to get into the war. factions with 2 territories will be auto qualified. Well, to make this requirement is not that easy. Based on how China and Taiwan performed, this seems to be an "OK" requirement to start. We will keep adjusting it until it reaches the balance point.
2) Yes, it is. NW will be merged into 1 battle on Sunday, reward will be doubled.
3) Not only 3 slots. Much more than that to make sure most factions on each server would get a chance to participate.
I honestly like these changes. Since attendance of NW between Sunday and Saturday wasn't much different in terms of numbers, I think reducing it to one day with increased rewards is a good way to free a slot for the upcoming cross-server TW.
The land requirement bit will have to be monitored. Frankly, we can't say for sure what's going to happen and what kind of loopholes and cheats people will find until we actually get the event. Hopefully, China will send us modifications and updates should we encounter problems.0 -
Ty for reply but can you tell us also if you know whats the max bid on cross server tw's?mintsummer said:
Can't believe I read it all.
1) Not "No land requirement to join" : factions with 0 territory can sign up -- but not guaranteed to get into the war. factions with 2 territories will be auto qualified. Well, to make this requirement is not that easy. Based on how China and Taiwan performed, this seems to be an "OK" requirement to start. We will keep adjusting it until it reaches the balance point.
2) Yes, it is. NW will be merged into 1 battle on Sunday, reward will be doubled.
3) Not only 3 slots. Much more than that to make sure most factions on each server would get a chance to participate.
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If anyone could explain this "fake" faction bidding problem among the TW, that would be wonderful! Since we still have time to make some changes before we launch the cross server TW.
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If you're asking about the general concept of fake bidding it's when a defending land holding faction uses an alt faction they control to either overbid the bid of a genuine attacker on their own land (denying the attacking faction the chance to attack) or otherwise locks out a potential attacker's ability to bid by making a max bid on the only lands the attacker is capable of attacking (land owning factions can only bid on lands adjacent to their own territory and often only 1 or 2 lands of an enemy faction satisfy this condition).
Fake bidding can also be used to overwhelm the defenses of a land owning faction by using fake factions to bid on multiple lands. In this case the defending land owning faction doesn't know if any of the fake factions constitute a genuine threat and has to divert a few members to actually going into those empty TWs to secure victory. A TW where the opposing force has 0 members in the TW still takes 5-10 mins per land to finish and diverts attention and resources away from defending actual attackers.
Fake bidding used to be strictly prohibited where the guild leaders of any faction whose members were caught fake bidding were banned for a few weeks (which has the side effect of disallowing the offending faction to bid at all). In recent years the enforcement of the rules has degraded and it is becoming an issue again.0 -
Plus there's a whole thread on it here.mintsummer wrote: »If anyone could explain this "fake" faction bidding problem among the TW, that would be wonderful! Since we still have time to make some changes before we launch the cross server TW.
http://forum.arcgames.com/pwi/discussion/1204161/fake-tw-bidding-abounds-on-pwi
It's become a real issue, and no matter how many tickets I send in with solid proof of the fake bidding and alt factions, nothing is ever done.
Hell, it took a friend of mine almost 6 months with numerous tickets to get a harassment issue looked at.0 -
mintsummer wrote: »If anyone could explain this "fake" faction bidding problem among the TW, that would be wonderful! Since we still have time to make some changes before we launch the cross server TW.
I would suggest logging Dawnglory and check the bids on Infamous. The non-Crisis bids are all fake and done by someone wanting to manipulate tw times. Without these bids, the Crisis attack on Infa would have been on Friday while Infa and Requiem's attack on Mayhem would have been Saturday.
If you would like further proof that these bids are fake, I will be more than willing to record.0 -
Also @mintsummer whats the point to have 3-4 time slots for TW when actually used only 2 the Friday slot (that noone can attend cause of time) and Saturday where is the logical time for the most of the people.
Speaking from Dawnglory and all the issues that came out with times after merge.
Thank you for your time0 -
"I would suggest logging Dawnglory and check the bids on Infamous. The non-Crisis bids are all fake and done by someone wanting to manipulate tw times. Without these bids, the Crisis attack on Infa would have been on Friday while Infa and Requiem's attack on Mayhem would have been Saturday.
If you would like further proof that these bids are fake, I will be more than willing to record." - Eoria
Of course they are fake bids. I remember Mayhem got stacked on Harshlands by one or two of those factions. Remember "I", "Hatee", "Pigs"? One is alledgedly owned by Mr.Pink or Cllyde who last I checked is friendly to Infamous. I remember Infamous' reaction was "everyone does it". I am not fond of TW time manipulation and have already reported the incident. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Infamous' doing though. They have a long history of it and can provide SS of it.0 -
Also u can make 1000 fake bids..main city will still have priority time slot that seems to be friday..so stop trying to blame others for what ur member do..0
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This is going a bit off original topic but from what i saw from previous tw's it makes no difference for Crisis if tw against Infamous is on friday or saturday. And are you positive that without fake bids tw time slot would be how you said? With the recent changes in time slots im not so convinced.
And if what you say is true and it was done to manipulate time slot what is the point of it since for Crisis it doesn't matter and seeing how majority of NA active twers in Mayhem cant come to friday tw because of obvious reasons (2pm on working day friday) it makes no sense that it was Mayhem who wanted to manipulate that tw's to be on friday just so they have less chance defending the gank or what? I really fail to see the logic in this , fake bid to manipulate tw times to make yourself have less chance to defend attacks on both cities? More logically would be the other way around
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Of course they are fake bids. I remember Mayhem got stacked on Harshlands by one or two of those factions. Remember "I", "Hatee", "Pigs"? One is alledgedly owned by Mr.Pink or Cllyde who last I checked is friendly to Infamous. I remember Infamous' reaction was "everyone does it". I am not fond of TW time manipulation and have already reported the incident. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Infamous' doing though. They have a long history of it and can provide SS of it.
His archer alt was booted this past weekend for a myriad of things I will not get into on this forum. Suffice to say, most guild leaders would probably boot mains for some of the reasons.
Anyway, as it stands, he cannot attend Friday wars thus the reason for the fake bids so he can attend and fight us.
Also, I am not advocating Crisis leadership be banned for this. It seems very clear to me that he acted of his own volition.0
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