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Official Feedback Thread: Astral Diamonds

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  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User
    edited June 2018

    Wait... I am not allowed to make another account, buy VIP. Rank up a toon to level 70, equip it to itemlevel 13.000, so that it can run all 3 random queues, and then making my 100.000 AD each day on that account.

    Then once a week not transfer the AD over. But buy stuff my main toon needs, like say a rank 13 enchantment and so on. Mailing it over after purchase.

    That would be considered an exploit??? Are they serious!!!

    I am NOT trying to exploit your game. I am simply playing catch up with the 17-18 k players, who won't take anything below level 17k. I am looking to be rewarded for my time spent grinding, with progress on my character. And I am looking for it without the people behind the game effectively placing a restriction on how fast I can achieve that.

    Get real!!!

    First, what you want to do is to workaround the limit they want to enforce. I am not saying your way is legal or illegal but you indeed try to get around their limitation they introduce to limit you.

    Second, it does not explicitly state what you want to do is illegal in TOS.
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms
    However, there is always:

    "4.12 Please note that regardless of any notice, we reserve the right to discontinue the Service or to terminate or suspend your Account at any time in our sole discretion, for any reason, or for no reason."

    Third, in my opinion, I don't think they will stop you but regardless, it is a grey area. Cryptic staff said various different things about this grey area in the past. I would say all these is "at your own risk".
    Personally, I think there isn't any risk inherent in that, assuming that the player is doing nothing else that is actually an exploit. I don't consider what @undeparted is doing or proposing to do an exploit because, regardless which account he is logged in on, he is playing the game the way it is intended to be played. As far as him or her using that second account to buy things from other players (and possibly using refinement points to rank up enchantments) and then mailing those items from his or her "main" account, that's not an exploit. In the end, it's nothing more than engaging in the economy and giving a gift from one account to another. If the developers are going to ding him for any of that activity, which does not exploit flaws or vulnerabilities in the game code, then they would have to ding most (if not all) of the player population. I mean, I've purchased things for other people (typically friends) and outright given them those items. The items purchased and given were not bound in any way.

    Furthermore, it sounds like undeparted is planning to (or does actually) purchase VIP time on that second account. Why would the developers want to stop a player from paying for multiple accounts? Maybe they'd frown on him logging in on both accounts at the same time and having one character follow another around, but I can't see them taking any action against that, either. If that's how he wants to do questing, that's up to him. Even when it comes to running random dungeons, I can't see that as a major problem provided he isn't harming anyone else's gaming experience in the process. Honestly, I think I'd rather have a player running two accounts at the same time with one of them on auto-follow as compared to putting up with bots in random dungeons. In my opinion, his second account will be of more help in a random dungeon than a HAMSTER bot.

    Finally, I can't see how they'd be able to determine that both accounts are owned by one player, even if they cared about this. You certainly can't rely on IP address for that or they'd end up banning spouses, children, roommates. You can't even rely on credit card information for the same reasons (and this assumes someone is buying Zen).
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,202Member Arc User
    regenerde said:

    regenerde said:


    What are they going to do then? Are they going to bann players for using the guild bank?

    I may be mistaken, unless the max guilds can take in lots of new alt accounts, all the alt accounts will have to feed a private guild bank. Eventually, you have to get those assets to the main toon. Such money (AD) laundering activities should be more easily detectable, risking the main account.
    How do you detect a private guild bank? If one creates 10 accounts with 2 characters each and join a guild, how do you know it is a private guild bank without some time consuming detective work?

    N accounts join a guild + 1 alt from main account to join it.
    Resources (not AD) can pass through the private guild to the alt of main account -> shared bank -> main character.
    This is not even new. Many people has been doing that for a long time.
    If Cryptic wants to catch people who has many accounts, they can and they did. But, that was some detective work and these people who got caught did more than just having many accounts alone.
    yeah teh amount of people who would go to that kind of work (And I think some expense) to work around this is going to be like .00000001 percent of the population if that high. I'm gonna guess maybe three people do it out of stubborn.. ppl are vocal here but I just don't think that many people will be affected or care that much about this in reality.
    Well, i think you might have to calculate that percentage a bit higher - you're forgetting people, that are currently mildly annoyed with certain game changes, but might get very angry when this particular change goes live without any tweaks.
    Especially those people, that have invested time and/or real money into more character slots and alt. characters. And anger can drive people to do some crazy things...
    k 10 ppl then. lol.
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,810Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Oh my god! They could basically ban you for whatever reason they came up with. Or no reason apparently...



    What a thing to write into your terms.

    Such things are not uncommon.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,934Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Oh my god! They could basically ban you for whatever reason they came up with. Or no reason apparently...



    What a thing to write into your terms.

    Such things are not uncommon.
    Yes. It is pretty standard.

    Xbox.com's TOS.

    https://www.xbox.com/en-CA/legal/xboxcomtou

    "Microsoft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Microsoft reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever. "

    "TERMINATION/ACCESS RESTRICTION

    Microsoft reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to terminate your access to any or all Xbox.com Web Site and the related services or any portion thereof at any time, without notice."

  • spelldazerspelldazer Posts: 275Member Arc User
    edited June 2018
    You can put anything in a contract. Doesn't make it legal. I hear courts and lawsuits are a thing in some countries. ;-)

    Turning your customer base into criminals is never desirable and rarely ends well for the product/company financially.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,810Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    They aren't turning their customers into criminals.

    "Management reserves the right to refuse service to any one for any reason."
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User
    edited June 2018

    On the point of making VIP farming accounts, this was said to be something action would be taken on but we have never been told if anything has been done about them.

    The thing, for me, is this: Is it really a farming account if the player is putting the effort into gearing the characters up to the 11k+ item level? I mean, I could see them wanting to keep the strictly AD-farming under-geared characters to a minimum, like the L70 3k and 4k item level characters that ran Karrundax and Spellplague with my wife and I last night. Characters with such low item levels are clearly throw-aways and I always suspect them of being bots until they exhibit player behaviour. (Not that there's much to be done about the bots... Though, sometimes my wife and I will have some fun with them and let them solo the end boss until they're dead and then usually kick them after they've run back from the campfire to the end-fight trigger.) But a character geared up to 11k is not a small investment. It means whoever owns that character has invested in artifact weapons & equipment, run (or bought) some campaigns for the boons, refined artifacts & artifact weapons & artifact equipment & enchantments, gotten some decent companions and equipped them, and probably invested in mounts with rare or epic insignias.

    If you've got a player who is paying for VIP on multiple accounts and investing in their characters to that level, why would you want to take any punitive action against them? They're playing the game according to the rules, paying more to play the game than most people who do pay for VIP, and spending plenty of hours using your product - which enhances your playerbase because they're going to be often online and they're knowledgable. Trying to police how many accounts people have is a "thought police" kind of thing.

    I've considered paying for a third account that would mostly be used by my nephew when he comes to visit, which would mean I would have to spend time and in-game resources to gear his characters and make sure they have some currency when he comes to visit. It wouldn't be very smart to turn around and ban me for paying for VIP on three accounts - and spending a decent amount of additional money on the game beyond that, especially during Zen sales - just because I spend time running RQ on all three accounts during times my nephew isn't visiting.

    Honestly, it is not a rare - or even uncommon - thing for people to pay for VIP on multiple accounts. Back when I played EverQuest, I knew several people who were paying to play that game on two, three, or four accounts - and that was just for themselves! In fact, I knew one person who paid to play that game on EIGHT accounts - 4 for himself, one for his wife, and three for his children. When you've got a player who is dedicated enough to your game to spend that kind of money, you're beyond HAMSTER LUTEFISK stupid if you ban them when they've done no actual exploiting of your game code. Those people will be among your greatest evangelists when talking to their family, friends, and people they happen to meet while going about their daily lives. That kind of good will and advertising simply cannot be bought.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,934Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 2018

    On the point of making VIP farming accounts, this was said to be something action would be taken on but we have never been told if anything has been done about them.

    greywynd said:

    They aren't turning their customers into criminals.

    "Management reserves the right to refuse service to any one for any reason."

    Most courts will have a legal concept of reasonableness that can be applied here so you would need an explainable reason. In a situation like this game there will no doubt be an internal complaints and appeals process that they use to reduce the chance of legal action succeeding (as this will reduce the possibility of the company acting unreasonably, especially a single person within that company).

    There will also probably be defined exemptions to this so called right to refuse, for example refusing to sell or provide service to someone for reasons relating to skin colour or religion or sexual reference.
    You won't be told because they won't tell you who they banned, why they were banned, how many of them were banned. What we can get is from side channel and from the people who were banned. What I heard before was individuals created many VIP accounts for the sole purpose to get lockbox keys to open lockbox were banned.

    Unless you are going to sue them, the court is irrelevant.
  • arwexx#1484 arwexx Posts: 5Member Arc User
    Could an admin tell us if they are going to modify something on the limit AD per day or not ?
    On runestone, they've made something to nerf lesser than what was announced... so i still hope ^^
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,695Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator

    Oh my god! They could basically ban you for whatever reason they came up with. Or no reason apparently...



    What a thing to write into your terms.

    Every MMO has this in their terms. It's pretty standard.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • undepartedundeparted Posts: 88Member Arc User
    > @kreatyve said:
    > Oh my god! They could basically ban you for whatever reason they came up with. Or no reason apparently...
    >
    >
    >
    > What a thing to write into your terms.
    >
    > Every MMO has this in their terms. It's pretty standard.

    Yeah, That’s what I hear both in here and from alliance members. Thanks for letting me know. Serves me right to be scared, when I don’t bother reading the terms.
  • wylonuswylonus Posts: 2,280Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kreatyve, love that hamster in your signature box.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Posts: 954Member Arc User
    mfw people reacting to this as if they're setting it so you can't get AD if you dont hit yourself in the sack or smth... brilliant.
  • ironwoodelfironwoodelf Posts: 8Member Arc User
    I didn't bother to try to read everything people posted. But the thought came to me if they want to reduce the backlog on converting AD t zen what could help is if they were to allow us to pay for VIP with AD. that way we don't need to convert it and the AD is taken out of the economy faster than waiting for the conversion. Just a thought. I am also sure they could allow us to purchase other things for AD instead of Zen. Far as the items for Zen go they could bring back items that we are unable to get anymore that people want for zen. Like mounts, companions. and such. If they already do this I not aware since i don't buy things for zen personally.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,934Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 2018

    I didn't bother to try to read everything people posted. But the thought came to me if they want to reduce the backlog on converting AD t zen what could help is if they were to allow us to pay for VIP with AD. that way we don't need to convert it and the AD is taken out of the economy faster than waiting for the conversion. Just a thought. I am also sure they could allow us to purchase other things for AD instead of Zen. Far as the items for Zen go they could bring back items that we are unable to get anymore that people want for zen. Like mounts, companions. and such. If they already do this I not aware since i don't buy things for zen personally.

    That won't happen. Somebody needs to pay $ (their revenue) to get Zen. If you can use AD to buy VIP (or anything from Zen store) directly, you bypass their income generator. Almost every Zen in the game was purchased using somebody's money.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 311Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Actually you could do that if Cryptic will start selling AD :D but ZEN store would be no longer needed, and ZENs as well.
    With this AD income change I reallystrat to wonder why Cryptic want to even bother keeping ZEN? Yeah I know that ZAX is a element of economy control and differnt currency is more encouraging peoples to buy it for real money, but if those AD restrictions planned will work out ZENs may become just a burden.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,934Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 2018
    gripnir78 said:

    Actually you could do that if Cryptic will start selling AD :D but ZEN store would be no longer needed, and ZENs as well.
    With this AD income change I reallystrat to wonder why Cryptic want to even bother keeping ZEN? Yeah I know that ZAX is a element of economy control and differnt currency is more encouraging peoples to buy it for real money, but if those AD restrictions planned will work out ZENs may become just a burden.

    1. Zen is not limited to this game. It is used in another game.
    2. Unless they change the game so that you cannot make AD, selling AD cannot force some people to use money to buy AD. Right now, if you need something from Zen store, you need Zen. How do you get Zen? There is only one main source of Zen (at the moment) and some people use money to buy it. Whatever you exchange from Zax are using the Zen somebody paid for it using real money. For the pure AD model (unless they disallow you to earn AD), they will not get as much real money.
    3. The AD change will not restrict you to earn a large sum of AD. It only makes you to take longer to do so.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,810Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User



    1. Zen is not limited to this game. It is used in another game.

    Zen will not jump from one game to another.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,009Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    greywynd said:



    1. Zen is not limited to this game. It is used in another game.

    Zen will not jump from one game to another.
    Yeah, I *wish* I could take STO Zen to Neverwinter or vice versa.

  • fightdawalrus#5058 fightdawalrus Posts: 114Member Arc User
    edited June 2018
    >
    > We don’t have bot issues on consoles.
    >
    >
    >
    > You can’t progress this game without AD. It’s just not possible. In other mmos you get rewarded with gear and upgrades through dungeon and raid runs. But in Neverwinter it’s almost entirely done by upgrading your current equipment of various sorts.
    >
    >
    >
    > Hitting us here is almost as bad as the coal wards / tradebar store stunt. Which I still can’t believe you did. To date the worst thing I’ve seen been done to a game community.
    >
    >
    >
    > 100.000 a day is not enough. And you even restrict the first run bonus to being account wide... meaning salvage is the only way to reach maximum AD per day.
    >
    >
    >
    > I hope you at least consider to compensate the remaining players on the extra character slots they have purchased over the years. I can only speak for myself, but extra diamonds per day, was the incentive for me to get additional slots.
    >
    >
    >
    > Those of us who grind several toons through dungeons each day, don’t do it for fun. Or to cheat you out of money from zen purchases. We do it to progress our character in the way that YOU have created. YOU introduced the game with multiple currency. And YOU made ad to zen an option. Not us.
    >
    >
    >
    > Those who put in the time should be rewarded as such. At least that’s how other games work...
    >
    >
    >
    > Good luck with your game.
    >
    >
    >
    > Patrick
    >
    > My words exactly. You nailed it all.

    I agree.

    The whole coal ward stunt was beyond sketchy. I wasn't mad about any other nerfs besides a few class changes here and there and even the bonding nerf wasn't that bad but if they go through with the 100k rAD limit and RQ changes, ill have to move on. I had $150 ready to spend on jubilee but im not spending a dime until I know if these changes are going through cause im not going to spend real money if im going to have to quit the game. They are catering to the super casual players who have been playing for years and are still 10k iL with an epic mount instead of the more serious players. They already nerfed the 30k rAD from over levels into the ground and now they are nerfing the rAD to 100k and RQs to account? It genuinely feels like they are trying to squeeze every cent out of the players before the game dies and way more people are leaving the game other than joining and staying. Its getting to the point of the only way to earn AD in a halfway decent time frame and progress in this game is to either invest money into mastercrafting, spend real money, spend real money to open lockboxes and pray for a legendary mount to sell for AD, and so on. I will continue to play until the changes are live because I still enjoy the game but after that, its time to finally pack up and see what other games are out there.
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Posts: 135Member Arc User
    This whole change is a clear demonstration of just how incompetent and misguided the design team is. All they are doing is throwing up a hail Mary and hoping for the best..... Just like all the previous changes of this nature we know what will happen. 1 - They will lose a lot of players. 2 - Absolutely nothing with respect to the amount of AD generated and in game.
  • animewatcha#6533 animewatcha Posts: 50Member Arc User
    So on ps4. Before jubilee hit. AD was at 500 a pop. A couple of days afterwards it went down to 470ish to 480ish last time I checked. How about PC? Did quite of bit of ZEN backlog 'mysteriously disappeared'? That is one of the main reasons for this change right? The Zen backlog.
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 661Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    It's come down a little, but is still well over 17M.
  • free2payfree2pay Posts: 280Member Arc User
    edited June 2018


    We could, as an example, raise the ZAX exchange cap to 1,000 on PC. It would rise up significantly to at least 750, but likely higher.

    The Zax exchange cap should definitely remain at the present cap of 500AD. However you can introduce a mechanism in Zax to subsidize or top up the AD earned by zen seller as long as that zen was originally bought using cash and not through AD.

    Our changes are intended to both help bring the prices in the AH, and the ZAX down, as well as help newer players and those with less playtime earn a bit more AD to help them out.

    The real question is why player feel the need to hoard those ADs and why they feel those ADs are not enough to get them the progress they think is needed? You should aim to alleviate the stress they feel they need those huge amount of ADs required to progress their character by buying things they would otherwise take too long reasonably to acquire themselves. You definitely have control over the drop rates and the loot table. Use that to your advantage instead. Let players reroll the loot in chest by spending ADs, with each subsequent reroll(s) getting more expensive. Make the upgrade chance higher/refinement cost cheaper for BtA items and the upgrade chance even higher/cost even cheaper for BtC items. Let player choose when looting whether they want to have it as BtC (for higher upgrade chance/lower refinement cost) or unbound (lower upgrade chance/higher refinement cost). ADs are the lifeblood for all transactions. Reduce the need player has to play the auction house/Zax by buying the things they lack and let them gain those items by playing your game instead. When "too many ADs" are chasing for the same item, driving up prices, it means there are too few items to go around, and you can control the items that go around.

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,810Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    So you want them to track each individual zen point to justify whether or not it was bought.

    A lot of those hoarding AD are BiS players or long time players and enjoy playing the market more than playing the grind.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
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