Not trying to be impolite but when u have a forum that has a "disagree", "agree", "like", and allows multi accounts
Is this true? Are multiple accounts per person legal on the forum? Asking now for the sake of evading sock puppetry.
It's frowned upon, but we do not currently have a hard rule against it. If there are issues though, we do typically take action against all associated accounts.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Forum can be a tricky place because people generally try to outsmart eachother directly attacking people's personality rather than counter-arguing on the topic involved. Many people feel extremely uncomfortable with any discussion, which is one of the main points of the forum itself. If people do not have guts for it, maybe forums aren't the place for them in general.
^ POW ^
A number of people take the "easy" way out when they are unable to effectively counter-argue/argue a point.
A discussion "should" involve the topic itself as well as any and all relevant details, perspectives, small/bigger picture, etc.
A number of players simply have such constrained thinking that they cannot see beyond their own perspective and usually attack anything/anyone they feel threatens their position, even if their position is based on a misconception of what something actually is/can be.
When people take things personal on the forum in regard to the posts of complete strangers they will more than likely never meet in person it wrecks constructive progress/dialogue. Being passionate about a perspective is one thing though insulting others that don't agree is something else and quite unnecessary. People are entitled to their opinion though insulting others, not so much.
Not trying to be impolite but when u have a forum that has a "disagree", "agree", "like", and allows multi accounts, you are motivating discremination IMO
Some people take those things VERY seriously lol. A number of people act/feel as if clicking "disagree" means the person that made the post is wrong, that's not what it means, it simply means that you disagree, nothing more, nothing less.
Some people go to the length of pointing out how many "dislikes" a user has as if it determines their "value". When a person takes a non-popular position in a topic more often than not they are meet with all kinds of opposition, negative responses, etc., know that from personal experience LOL.
Some people go to the lengths of creating multiple accounts to "agree with themselves" or try and make others look bad. Ever read a thread that had a number of "accounts" posting similar things and recent "joined" date? Coincidence? Certainly not all the time lol
but when u post suggestions and get 0 replies from the forum admins/mods, its no encouraging.
It happens, had an ongoing issue since the first quarter of 2017 and have yet to receive an "appropriate" response, appropriate meaning positive resolution (the responses made by staff, regardless of the extended amounts of time between and the personal effort it took to encourage them were/are appreciated nonetheless).
Some threads are simply echoes of previous ones, a simple search will often reveal similar topics though instead of posting within one already established players often enough want to make a thread of their own for whatever reason(s) which creates an issue. Those "echo" threads are often enough the ones people complain about not being responded to though they are not for good reason (repeats).
Forum can be a tricky place because people generally try to outsmart eachother directly attacking people's personality rather than counter-arguing on the topic involved. Many people feel extremely uncomfortable with any discussion, which is one of the main points of the forum itself. If people do not have guts for it, maybe forums aren't the place for them in general.
^ POW ^
A number of people take the "easy" way out when they are unable to effectively counter-argue/argue a point.
A discussion "should" involve the topic itself as well as any and all relevant details, perspectives, small/bigger picture, etc.
A number of players simply have such constrained thinking that they cannot see beyond their own perspective and usually attack anything/anyone they feel threatens their position, even if their position is based on a misconception of what something actually is/can be.
When people take things personal on the forum in regard to the posts of complete strangers they will more than likely never meet in person it wrecks constructive progress/dialogue. Being passionate about a perspective is one thing though insulting others that don't agree is something else and quite unnecessary. People are entitled to their opinion though insulting others, not so much.
I completely agree. As you pointed out, just recently people started with the sock puppetry I was referring to in order to attack me on a personal basis in one of the topics. Someone who has 2 whole posts on the forum went to find me in-game, take a screenshot of my toon, and then call me out that I don't know how to play this game or CW in general. Actually made me laugh out loud. This sort of behavior does come from inability to cope up with the problem at hand and instead to question the arguments and provide valid counter-arguments, people question someone's authority rather than intellectual outlay focused in a post or two.
In the general sense this is not bound just to this particular forum, but to all forums and social media in general and it's bound in the human behavior which neglects the plausibility that you're speaking to an actual person behind the computer. At the very least some netiquette is suggested as a good-to-go strategy when talking to others, however the trolls prefer to believe that they're having fun by messing with people or certain individuals. Forum is one of the best places for such behavioral outlet, unfortunately.
In-game chat is no different, either.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
I completely agree. As you pointed out, just recently people started with the sock puppetry I was referring to in order to attack me on a personal basis in one of the topics.
This sort of behavior does come from inability to cope up with the problem at hand and instead to question the arguments and provide valid counter-arguments, people question someone's authority rather than intellectual outlay focused in a post or two.
In the general sense this is not bound just to this particular forum, but to all forums and social media in general and it's bound in the human behavior which neglects the plausibility that you're speaking to an actual person behind the computer. At the very least some netiquette is suggested as a good-to-go strategy when talking to others, however the trolls prefer to believe that they're having fun by messing with people or certain individuals. Forum is one of the best places for such behavioral outlet, unfortunately.
In-game chat is no different, either.
Spot on.
Some people try to derail the discussion to prevent further opposition to the "preferred"/majority idea. The lengths some people go to try and make something more than what it is can be quite amazing. Personally don't see how others can let a stranger over the internet rile them up to such a high degree, seemingly some people are more permeable than others.
Personally refer to it as "cowardly cover" when people go off on others via words on a screen knowing good and well they wouldn't get greasy with people face-to-face.
but you do need to think before you post something. If it's not something you would tell a perfect stranger to their face, you probably need to rethink your wording a bit.
Personally have offered to pay a person's way to meet up and settle whatever difference they had, guess how many have taken the offer? Not that the offer was for violent intent, it was to show that they weren't as serious about how they felt as they put on to be even though the offer was legit.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I completely agree. As you pointed out, just recently people started with the sock puppetry I was referring to in order to attack me on a personal basis in one of the topics. Someone who has 2 whole posts on the forum went to find me in-game, take a screenshot of my toon, and then call me out that I don't know how to play this game or CW in general. Actually made me laugh out loud. This sort of behavior does come from inability to cope up with the problem at hand and instead to question the arguments and provide valid counter-arguments, people question someone's authority rather than intellectual outlay focused in a post or two.
In the general sense this is not bound just to this particular forum, but to all forums and social media in general and it's bound in the human behavior which neglects the plausibility that you're speaking to an actual person behind the computer. At the very least some netiquette is suggested as a good-to-go strategy when talking to others, however the trolls prefer to believe that they're having fun by messing with people or certain individuals. Forum is one of the best places for such behavioral outlet, unfortunately.
In-game chat is no different, either.
Wow. That level of..... er..... dedication (?) to giving you negative feedback is a bit extreme. I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. It may have made you laugh, but I can imagine cyber stalking like that isn't exactly fun.
I have to agree with a lot of what you've said about coping with problems at hand and social media of all sorts. I also want to add two points. The first is that despite age restrictions on certain things, there is always a possibility that we are actually dealing with children. My nephew is 10, and I've caught him red handed trying to type "trash talk" into his game-of-choice's game chat. If it sounds really immature and over the top, chances are you have a kid or young teenager on your hands. The second point is that in all walks of life we meet people who are not socially developed. Could be for any number of reasons, some easier for us to empathize with than others. Sometimes we have to realize the other person doesn't know how to not over react and they don't understand that not letting it go is making them look, It's not easy (and I've fallen prey to this myself) but there are moments when we have to let it go and be the mature one. Doing anything else won't do anyone any good. (Let me stress that I am saying this stuff broadly, not in reference to your unfortunate situation or how you approached it. Please don't think I am commenting about you directly.)
It doesn't help that some people feel emboldened by the anonymity of the internet and gaming. They do or say things to other people that they would never have the nerve to do in person. But that is a different topic altogether. I agree with @trinity706#8838 that some of it is cowardice, Some is also that people don't realize how worked up they are when they are no consequences to how mean or snarky they can be, unlike if you were going off on your coworker or next door neighbor.
Someone once told me that if someone spends all day thinking about how much they don't like you and want to prove you wrong, then who has the power? They're the ones thinking about you all day long while you are the one going on about your life.
Agree, @sgaddis13#3703 There may also be cultural differences in play. I have dealt with people in Russia (at least they claimed) who were very easily perturbed, and in some instances, made the first strike. Its just how those people learned to deal on the 'net in their part of the world. Once they realized I was from the U.S., they made the extra effort to not beat me down at the first sign of confusion.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
A number of people take the "easy" way out when they are unable to effectively counter-argue/argue a point.
A discussion "should" involve the topic itself as well as any and all relevant details, perspectives, small/bigger picture, etc.
It is very easy to press agree/disagree/like/lol and not bother arguing at all, which is why I never press them. To me if you want to disagree with someone, you should be able to argue it and not just spam a button. If your only argument is pressing a button, you have no argument at all and since this is the mindset I have adopted, I also don't care if people press those buttons on my posts, since I see the buttons as having no substance anyhow. They are just the easy way out for people who don't know how to argue in an effective manner since if you disagree with someone and you try to argue and you provide a poor argument, its visible to everyone who reads it you are disagreeing for no good reason. But if you simply press a disagree button, there is nothing to argue over and thus it is the cowards way out that avoids confrontation. The same is true for pressing an agree button, justifying why you agree with something is much harder.
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
edited March 2018
Or they simply disagree with you and for some reason don't feel justifying their disagreement is necessary. Now you can take your argument about it and use it as your dogma, but it doesn't mean you are correct.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
A number of people take the "easy" way out when they are unable to effectively counter-argue/argue a point.
A discussion "should" involve the topic itself as well as any and all relevant details, perspectives, small/bigger picture, etc.
It is very easy to press agree/disagree/like/lol and not bother arguing at all, which is why I never press them. To me if you want to disagree with someone, you should be able to argue it and not just spam a button. If your only argument is pressing a button, you have no argument at all and since this is the mindset I have adopted, I also don't care if people press those buttons on my posts, since I see the buttons as having no substance anyhow. They are just the easy way out for people who don't know how to argue in an effective manner since if you disagree with someone and you try to argue and you provide a poor argument, its visible to everyone who reads it you are disagreeing for no good reason. But if you simply press a disagree button, there is nothing to argue over and thus it is the cowards way out that avoids confrontation. The same is true for pressing an agree button, justifying why you agree with something is much harder.
Confrontation is not always a good thing. Some people can't handle it. I would prefer those people just click the disagree button and move on than to start a flame war. Just my personal opinion. Feel free to click disagree on any of my comments that you disagree with, and please do not feel the need to explain yourself. I get most of my disagees on moderation messages anyway.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Personally the approach taken on the forums is constructive explorations of various topics. It's not necessarily about being right and proving others wrong, it's far more about constructive dialogue to maintain or promote a better in-game experience for the player base.
Personally when a person makes a post, their post is addressed, not them as a person (how would that be possible in regard to strangers, let alone over the internet anyway?). Trying to guess their age/mental capacity, their culture, why this, why that isn't necessary especially since there is very little (if anything) that can be done to verify what kind of person someone is, let alone if the account they are posting on has "shadow support" of other accounts they have also created, it would take far too much effort to simply still be unsure.
People have varying capacitates in regard to the type of posts they make regardless of age (pretty much anyone can make an intelligent/not so intelligent post(s)) and some people operate in different capacities at different times so the forum "environment" itself contains a lot of uncertainty to try and "pinpoint" a person, how they are, how they think, the "tone" of their words, etc. though a number of people proceed as if they can prove themselves to be 100% correct. Simply going by what is presented helps maintain "order" as well as sanity LoL.
When stepping into the "ring" of the forums one "has" to understand/have a grasp on what they want to accomplish.
Making an unsupported argument is essentially begging for conflict. If a person makes an argument that you disagree with and you are to provide a counter-argument, simply provide evidence (actual evidence, not simply statements that can't be proven/disproved), the "burden of proof" lies with the person making a claim(s). A supported argument trumps an unsupported one (should). Opinions are fine, supported ones are even better.
The forums are filled with unsupported arguments of all kinds and often enough they receive far more attention than they are worth.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Essentially the "disagree" button is just a button until substance it given to it. The other buttons at times could be furthered with some added substance though the disagree button pretty much needs context to positively be effective rather than simply a "spite" tactic.
Have witnessed posts receive a "disagree" not even a minute after it was posted, the one's being referenced weren't even short, not stating that no one on the forums can be a speed reader but damn lol.
Articulation is key as well as comprehending to the best of your ability the statements of others before responding to them. If you have given a person the courtesy of reading their post in it's entirety, what grounds are there to respond negatively/disagree? It happens a lot, people get so caught up in how they are going to respond, what they want to post, trying to make someone look bad, etc. that they do themselves as well as readers a disservice of providing ignorance. You probably wouldn't want to put yourself in a position of having egg on your face simply because you didn't give the courtesy of reading previous statements, though it happens quite frequently. If nothing else at least "skim" through previous posts, coming in "right off the street" is a bold move especially in regard to a thread pages in already.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Or they simply disagree with you and for some reason don't feel justifying their disagreement is necessary. Now you can take your argument about it and use it as your dogma, but it doesn't mean you are correct.
If you cannot justify an argument then you have no argument at all. The same goes with disagreeing with something, if you are disagreeing out of malice or spite with no real reason, or if your reasons are misplaced, trying to justify your disagreement will show it. Justification is always necessary, things should never be accepted as "gods word" because that leads to pitfalls based on accepting something that would have been proven false if it had been brought up against an argument.
A number of people take the "easy" way out when they are unable to effectively counter-argue/argue a point.
A discussion "should" involve the topic itself as well as any and all relevant details, perspectives, small/bigger picture, etc.
It is very easy to press agree/disagree/like/lol and not bother arguing at all, which is why I never press them. To me if you want to disagree with someone, you should be able to argue it and not just spam a button. If your only argument is pressing a button, you have no argument at all and since this is the mindset I have adopted, I also don't care if people press those buttons on my posts, since I see the buttons as having no substance anyhow. They are just the easy way out for people who don't know how to argue in an effective manner since if you disagree with someone and you try to argue and you provide a poor argument, its visible to everyone who reads it you are disagreeing for no good reason. But if you simply press a disagree button, there is nothing to argue over and thus it is the cowards way out that avoids confrontation. The same is true for pressing an agree button, justifying why you agree with something is much harder.
Confrontation is not always a good thing. Some people can't handle it. I would prefer those people just click the disagree button and move on than to start a flame war. Just my personal opinion. Feel free to click disagree on any of my comments that you disagree with, and please do not feel the need to explain yourself. I get most of my disagees on moderation messages anyway.
The merit of an argument is determined solely by how well it withstands confrontation. At its core, that is what to disagree means, it means there is an argument over whatever it is you are disagreeing on. In my opinion, the existence of those buttons is more a negative thing than a positive thing and the resulting outcome is that they turn the forums for some people into a popularity contest more than a place to share and debate ideas (which is the true purpose of a forum). Furthermore, its a lot easier to go, "oh, it looks like everyone is agreeing with that post, I am going to agree with it as well and conform with the crowd," than it is to read through 100 posts of people voicing why they agree/disagree and then giving an opinion based on the popular choice. And no I am not going to change my decision to ignore those buttons simply because you would prefer me to. If everyone adopted that policy, there would be no forum at all, just a board with forum profiles that have 4 buttons where you can agree on the people you like and disagree with the people you dislike. What is a forum? If you google it, you may find out it is defined as: "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." What views are exchanged by hitting a button? None, except that you agree or disagree. May as well make this a poll not a forum if that is what you really want.
And as far as the topic of the thread goes...There is a time to be nice and there is a time to argue and it depends entirely on the tone of the discussion in question. If the tone is antagonizing, the resulting thread will be as a result of it. If the tone is not antagonizing, reasonable discussion will probably occur. There is a difference between saying, "omg, my dmg sucks now, cryptic is horrible, why you nerf storm spell now I will quit NW you should have nerfed GWF," and saying, "After these changes I found Storm Spell procced far less frequently and as a result my damage has been reduced. Can someone please look into this as I don't think this was the intended result." The first post is immediately antagonizing, calling devs names and upsetting the GWF community and it provides no useful feedback. The second post provides some useful feedback. Yet, most of the feedback on these forums is provided in the form of the first post and not the second and then people wonder why there is lots of bickering and nobody is nice.
If you cannot justify an argument then you have no argument at all. The same goes with disagreeing with something, if you are disagreeing out of malice or spite with no real reason, or if your reasons are misplaced, trying to justify your disagreement will show it. Justification is always necessary, things should never be accepted as "gods word" because that leads to pitfalls based on accepting something that would have been proven false if it had been brought up against an argument.
Or the person has decided you aren't worth responding to beyond the disagree button. It happens.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
If you cannot justify an argument then you have no argument at all. The same goes with disagreeing with something, if you are disagreeing out of malice or spite with no real reason, or if your reasons are misplaced, trying to justify your disagreement will show it. Justification is always necessary, things should never be accepted as "gods word" because that leads to pitfalls based on accepting something that would have been proven false if it had been brought up against an argument.
Or the person has decided you aren't worth responding to beyond the disagree button. It happens.
Then that says more about that person than it says about the poster.
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
Maybe, but I personally can't be bothered to try to psychoanalyze every person that might disagree with a comment that I might make about why they don't expand upon their disagreement. To put it another way, "not my problem."
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
If you cannot justify an argument then you have no argument at all. The same goes with disagreeing with something, if you are disagreeing out of malice or spite with no real reason, or if your reasons are misplaced, trying to justify your disagreement will show it. Justification is always necessary, things should never be accepted as "gods word" because that leads to pitfalls based on accepting something that would have been proven false if it had been brought up against an argument.
Or the person has decided you aren't worth responding to beyond the disagree button. It happens.
Then that says more about that person than it says about the poster.
Sometimes if I'm pressed for time, I will click agree or disagree on a comment without putting in my 2 cents. Some people have been "abusing" the disagree button though, and if enough people continue to abuse it, it will more than likely be removed.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Or they simply disagree with you and for some reason don't feel justifying their disagreement is necessary.
There's far too much spite and room for misconduct on the forums for that to be constructive. The disagree button is often enough maliciously used therefore providing a reason(s) as to why would help separate it from the "out of spite" clicks (although not required, it can help). Simply clicking "disagree" does not highlight what portion(s) are disagreed with and in regard to the forums, those portions are important in being able to produce more in depth dialogue/exploration of topics.
(maybe clicking disagree/agree could be set pull up the entire post similar to when clicking "quote" and the person can delete text that they do not disagree/agree with and everything else left will "highlight" if someone hovers over disagree/agree and then hovers over the name of the account that has clicked either?)
Maybe, but I personally can't be bothered to try to psychoanalyze every person that might disagree with a comment that I might make about why they don't expand upon their disagreement. To put it another way, "not my problem."
That isn't necessary.
Disagree and simply leave it up in the air or provide a reason(s) and bring it down to Earth, though when/if that undisclosed "disagree" is challenged be prepared for the results. As you stated, not providing a reason doesn't necessarily make the other person right though it also doesn't make the grounds the disagree is based upon right either.
If disagrees were not used maliciously, maybe, though when humans are involved not everyone will conduct themselves in a positive manner therefore providing a reason can help exclude it from malicious intent.
The same goes with disagreeing with something, if you are disagreeing out of malice or spite with no real reason, or if your reasons are misplaced, trying to justify your disagreement will show it. Justification is always necessary, things should never be accepted as "gods word" because that leads to pitfalls based on accepting something that would have been proven false if it had been brought up against an argument.
A number of people know that their argument is weak or that their disagreement is based on malice/spite and don't want others to have the opportunity to point it out while they throw stones from the dark.
Confrontation is not always a good thing. Some people can't handle it. I would prefer those people just click the disagree button and move on than to start a flame war.
The result of confrontation depends on the individuals involved. Conflict is inevitable on the forums though it does not have to escalate to the degrees it often does.
A LOT of people on the forums want to/make bold statements, not support them and deny others the ability to argue against their statements then turn around and jump all over others and essentially demand that they support their statements when they themselves do not/will not do it for their own. In other words they want to dish it out but not take it, arguably the one's that can't take it are the one's that are continually dishing it out.
Some people have been "abusing" the disagree button though, and if enough people continue to abuse it, it will more than likely be removed.
Simply requiring a "reason" to be entered before it registers or the applicable portion(s) highlighted as previously mentioned will help prevent abuse. Those that intend to abuse the disagree button will not be able to do so while under the cover of ambiguity.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Just as I maintain that the devs can create a cooperative/uncooperative environment in game by the way they present content, forum posters can help to foster a healthy and constructive environment with a little self-policing... and I don't mean policing one another
The majority of the input on these boards comes from a tiny minority of registered users, and if we the wordy would take a moment each time we press the "POST COMMENT" button to ask ourselves a couple of questions and take a second look at what we are about to post up to the community, we might at least better understand the impact what we say cumulatively has on the forums as a whole: 1. Is it pithy? Rarely does a flood of words contain a drop of sense... I struggle with this one, myself
Mark Twain offers some helpful advice 2. Is it precise? Too often, side arguments go off-topic and end up going nowhere, only adding unnecessary pages of disagreement to topics nobody wants to sift through just in case someone had something relevant to add in the middle of two or three people contesting semantics or trying to prove a point
3. Is it redundant? If you have already stated your point, it is not helpful to repeat it but rather it is seen as argumentative and a sign of insecurity
Other people can disagree with you without affecting the integrity of your initial thoughts, so try to wait until you have something new to add to the topic... It is much more rewarding for someone else to defend your point of view than it is to waste hours or days going back and forth with one or two people, and exercising restraint in this regard is much more supportive of a community oriented dialog
4. Is it constructive? Pointing out problems without proposing solutions is just complaint, so unless the observation being made is supporting a larger effort of finding a solution or is a request for help in finding one, it is probably not very constructive
Simply requiring a "reason" to be entered before it registers or the applicable portion(s) highlighted as previously mentioned will help prevent abuse. Those that intend to abuse the disagree button will not be able to do so while under the cover of ambiguity.
Yes, but this is Vanilla. Vanilla doesn't have that kind of feature, unfortunately. Honestly, I really hate Vanilla forums.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Yes, I have a nephew who's occasionally allowing himself to be engulfed in rage moments in various competitive games and it's much harder for teenagers and younger adults to get a hold of themselves in such intense situations. Not all, of course. I do not want to generalize speaking like this. When voicing unpopular opinions on the forum one's going to become a center of attention and would need far more time invested into explaining the opinion for the sake of the benefit. And even at that point one can be wrong and perhaps change his/hers opinion down the line. This I strongly believe. Unfortunately, the way I speak and write directly is usually my somewhat tactless approach which is bound to sound very confrontational. This has to do with me not being a native English speaker, although I do try to be as clear as possible. Usually I end up having to explain something in-detail which I occasionally find to be taken at a face value as if everyone else know what I know, and then I end up looking somewhat antagonistic or maybe like an elitist despite not having such motives but only genuine helping in mind. My only regret is that the person didn't take a picture of me getting my +5 Ring of the Gravestrikker hehehe
@ Topic : Have I got an astronomical post now
I do not feel like talking about semantics around what buttons or forum serves for. I mean, there are rules and general information sharing. That's enough for me. I will stress out that I agree on some points the Fabricant spoke about. However, I do not agree on the value of the "buttons" as they won't ever make me feel uncomfortable. I openly spoke about the issues of the most popular feature, Aura of Courage, only to find myself having a bunch of people who disagree and have divided opinions on it's, to sum it up, "effective balancing magnitude". Of course, I knew what was going to happen if I spoke about it. However, I'm not going to change my mind on that topic until some changes take place. Some people find that as a personal attack on them and everything they ever built in Neverwinter which I usually tend to find extremely misplaced in terms of logic. Using a bug which allows you to maintain something far more than it's supposed to be giving you and you thinking that it's a valid strategy to build up to 100K-200K-300k-400K power and propose it as a valid strategy is something I find to be seriously misleading and calls for the bad behavior in the game. I know that most of those disagreements come from the avoidance of the confrontation of any kind as well as personal reasons which do not reflect on the gameplay in general on itself. It can be taken as being rude but again can be taken as the lack of knowledge. Perhaps what I speak about is meant to sound like a slow reminder that things change drastically in this game and certain aspects will change things drastically, but for all that matters people shouldn't really make an outcry with such magnitude of irrationality as well as blame placed on Cryptic whenever something that was out of balance - nerfed or, rather, fixed. I usually feel like I'm preaching to a choir, but turns out that people are not really even familiar with the history of Neverwinter changes. Figures for people who came once MOD10 hit around. So for them this game is super-hard and any change which may happen is like the end of the world and all that's saint!
That is how I see the main problem on the forum - class balance stuff. Bugs and lag so some smaller degree. And a very antagonistic approach to Cryptic when things go downhill which I can't say is completely misplaced (MOD6 never again).
Personally, the buttons I use them to acknowledge someone's writing most than anything else. Especially when they talk to me in a topic. I also use Disagree button when people offer something exceptionally wrong or false which helps to avoid confrontation on terms which would derail the topic. I also feel that people usually do not come to seek confrontation on the forum, either. Perhaps they seek to have some information and maybe laugh a bit. For some people that's enough and that's a valid outcome. For me and my forum experience, no. Such things are usually more polluting in my opinion due to their ambiguity. Usually ambiguity more so than anything else. I've noticed that some people genually get angry if they lead some discussion which is somewhat derailing and have problems if someone types by replying to the first post which started the topic. It's as if they feel that they own the topic or something crazy like that And if you do not follow what they talk about, you're not welcome in the topic. Baffling!
I also try to take care of the moderators who'd have to read and look at everything. I dislike to derail the topic but in some cases I have to, otherwise I might end up having to explain myself on some other place to the same people, thus leading to a bunch of derailing ending up with a bad picture for everyone else. Usually, people do not want to talk via PM about what they disagree about but instead choose to make the other look like some idiot or something similar. Again, a poor portrayal of argumentative skills. The confrontation avoidance is something I personally find hard to maintain and I feel like it shouldn't be avoided for the sake of argumentation, but then again I always try to explain my position and I'd really like if others had this sort of acknowledgement which would improve the quality of the forum posts and perhaps make a difference to some extent, hopefully for the better. Argumentation is time consuming and everyone has the right to approach it on the forum. Eventually the argumentation is good because it will lead to more scrutiny and maybe shape up some sort of consensus on the forum regarding a particular thing. Doesn't have to be a rule, just a consensus which may change over the time. However, the lack of argumentative skills and the lack of the acknowledgement of what the other person speaks about is generally what will derail the topic into various forms of logical fallacies. At that point it becomes a total charade for everyone to watch and make jokes about.
Unfortunately, yes, some people are fishing for posts that would make them popular and thrive in the charade scenarios. It's similar to a flame war, but usually doesn't hold much maliciousness as much as personal boredom which reflects on the forum writing under the pretension of positivism. That's completely ok for whoever likes that sort of a deal. I prefer something more on the intellectual side. Turns out that such a road is usually a somewhat lonelier when talking about the game balance.
That's why I state that forum might not be the best place for everyone who doesn't have the guts for it and all that may come with it. Luckily, I see some great people in the given topic who maybe share similar outlet or the approach to the forum. In any case it's nice to be in such company, so I thank you all who partake in this topic.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Some people have been "abusing" the disagree button though, and if enough people continue to abuse it, it will more than likely be removed.
Sometimes I wish it were removed anyway because there are way too many folks who seem to take a "disagree" as a personal affront. Even to the point of calling out folks for disagreeing. The button is just an indication you disagree. If others are already in a discussion and making arguments then hitting the disagree or agree should not become a major issue for people.
... or the applicable portion(s) highlighted as previously mentioned will help prevent abuse.
I like this idea. I know there have been a few times where I have hit disagree and the person got upset and I was not attacking them, rather disagreeing with a conclusion that was made or a part of their fifty line post.
Yes, I have a nephew who's occasionally allowing himself to be engulfed in rage moments in various competitive games and it's much harder for teenagers and younger adults to get a hold of themselves in such intense situations. Not all, of course. I do not want to generalize speaking like this. When voicing unpopular opinions on the forum one's going to become a center of attention and would need far more time invested into explaining the opinion for the sake of the benefit. And even at that point one can be wrong and perhaps change his/hers opinion down the line. This I strongly believe. Unfortunately, the way I speak and write directly is usually my somewhat tactless approach which is bound to sound very confrontational. This has to do with me not being a native English speaker, although I do try to be as clear as possible. Usually I end up having to explain something in-detail which I occasionally find to be taken at a face value as if everyone else know what I know, and then I end up looking somewhat antagonistic or maybe like an elitist despite not having such motives but only genuine helping in mind. My only regret is that the person didn't take a picture of me getting my +5 Ring of the Gravestrikker hehehe
You raise a very, very excellent point here. Tone. We can read other people's posts and assume they are "saying" it one way when it is in fact something else altogether. Sometimes if we've had a bad day or are just in a crabby mood, it is very easy to take written words out of context. I'm glad you said that. Sometimes we need to stop and think, not just react.
Also, my nephew is a hot head for sure, but in his case he actually thinks he is supposed to trash talk in games and spam chat functions. It is a case of learning by example. I've been trying to explain to him that he is seeing the bad people no one likes, not the "cool" people.
Some people have been "abusing" the disagree button though, and if enough people continue to abuse it, it will more than likely be removed.
Sometimes I wish it were removed anyway because there are way too many folks who seem to take a "disagree" as a personal affront. Even to the point of calling out folks for disagreeing. The button is just an indication you disagree. If others are already in a discussion and making arguments then hitting the disagree or agree should not become a major issue for people.
Honestly, if there is a discussion going on and I feel strongly enough one way or another, I am not going to repeat what has already been said 7 times. I am just going to hit the agree or disagree button and move on. It isn't useful for me to reword the same thoughts already expressed.
... or the applicable portion(s) highlighted as previously mentioned will help prevent abuse.
I like this idea. I know there have been a few times where I have hit disagree and the person got upset and I was not attacking them, rather disagreeing with a conclusion that was made or a part of their fifty line post.
Or disagreeing with the 15th post saying someone is attacking them because they don't agree with their view. Yes. Some people may use it as a tool to be ugly, but for some of us it is a way of saying "Same" or "I don't agree with your point" without wasting a post.
However, some people are naturally sensitive and will feel attacked over everything that addresses them personally. I don't think there is a way to make this one a win-win.
Personally before posting more often than not the post itself has gone through multiple revisions. Some posts are two-three times as long prior to being posted.
If a point has been previously argued it is essentially left where it is unless someone new to the topic comes in and makes the same/similar argument previous argued against (it often enough happens when people come in with the "I didn't read anything prior to posting" standing), then it is essentially argued "again" to those that have witnessed it prior and "fresh" to a poster new to the thread in hopes not to allow such "unchecked" ideas/suggestions to gain the falsehood that they are "good" simply because they have not been objected to.
Often enough the previous statement(s) is quoted and or argued in a different manner to help promote clarity
For the sake of being civil, replace the word "fool" with "person".
Proverbs 26:4-5 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes." (the quoting of this proverb is not to imply a religious background)
Personally aim to provide subjective statements supported by objective statements/information (not necessarily in that order) and often in the scope of a "bigger picture". A number of "arguments" are simply over the "details"/"specific" of a situation. Also a number of suggestions focus on the immediate effects rather than in addition to the overall/possible outcomes as well.
When voicing unpopular opinions on the forum one's going to become a center of attention and would need far more time invested into explaining the opinion for the sake of the benefit.
Honestly, if there is a discussion going on and I feel strongly enough one way or another, I am not going to repeat what has already been said 7 times. I am just going to hit the agree or disagree button and move on. It isn't useful for me to reword the same thoughts already expressed.
It's a scope within a scope. If a person simply and genuinely surveys the arguments of others and takes a position based on what they get from it and remain on "the sidelines" by clicking a button and not making posts of their own no problem, fair enough though when that same person later chooses to "get into the game" and addresses the posts of others their own previous "disagrees" or "agrees" may very well come into question/be challenged and "should" be prepared to respond accordingly.
If you openly express that you disagree with someone, you are asked why and you fail to provide a reason, that there can open up a portal to another dimension and something far worse than demons and Demogorgon can emerge
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
As I said in a feedback thread a couple weeks ago, I don't think the disagree button serves any constructive purpose. I mean, in theory it seems like it would, but in practice, it doesn't. If you want to passively take sides in a discussion, you can just like or agree with the posts you agree with. If their are no counter-posts to agree with, make your own.
A disagree without context just feels like trolling. If context is provided (aka, explaining your disagreement), clicking the button is redundant. I think we would overall be better off without the disagree button.
As I said in a feedback thread a couple weeks ago, I don't think the disagree button serves any constructive purpose. I mean, in theory it seems like it would, but in practice, it doesn't. If you want to passively take sides in a discussion, you can just like or agree with the posts you agree with. If their are no counter-posts to agree with, make your own.
A disagree without context just feels like trolling. If context is provided (aka, explaining your disagreement), clicking the button is redundant. I think we would overall be better off without the disagree button.
Often times, replying to a post you disagree with IS seen as trolling (or called such by 'opponents'). There have been times when I was sent to the lower depths for things I thought were discussion. Sometimes, all one has is the Agree/Disagree button. If having a notification of disagreement is *that* upsetting for some people, they can ignore it. It has the same effect as someone not pressing the button, except both people get their say, in some way.
It also not going to change, so I know people will have to deal with it. Just take it in stride
People should always be allowed to agree/disagree with any point or statement, but that being said they should also be able, or required to by some opinions, to explain why they support or oppose a given perspective... as opposed to a simple "like" opinion that needs no further explaination.
Anyway that's my personal opinion.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
As I said in a feedback thread a couple weeks ago, I don't think the disagree button serves any constructive purpose. I mean, in theory it seems like it would, but in practice, it doesn't. If you want to passively take sides in a discussion, you can just like or agree with the posts you agree with. If their are no counter-posts to agree with, make your own.
A disagree without context just feels like trolling. If context is provided (aka, explaining your disagreement), clicking the button is redundant. I think we would overall be better off without the disagree button.
Often times, replying to a post you disagree with IS seen as trolling (or called such by 'opponents'). There have been times when I was sent to the lower depths for things I thought were discussion. Sometimes, all one has is the Agree/Disagree button. If having a notification of disagreement is *that* upsetting for some people, they can ignore it. It has the same effect as someone not pressing the button, except both people get their say, in some way.
It also not going to change, so I know people will have to deal with it. Just take it in stride
Getting a little into discussing moderation there, which we do not typically allow, but to clear up any misconception - we have never sent any comment to the LD due to use of the agree or disagree button. If you have any more questions regarding this, please PM one of us moderators. Please do not quote or respond to this comment here. Thanks!
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
A number of people take the "easy" way out when they are unable to effectively counter-argue/argue a point.
A discussion "should" involve the topic itself as well as any and all relevant details, perspectives, small/bigger picture, etc.
A number of players simply have such constrained thinking that they cannot see beyond their own perspective and usually attack anything/anyone they feel threatens their position, even if their position is based on a misconception of what something actually is/can be.
When people take things personal on the forum in regard to the posts of complete strangers they will more than likely never meet in person it wrecks constructive progress/dialogue. Being passionate about a perspective is one thing though insulting others that don't agree is something else and quite unnecessary. People are entitled to their opinion though insulting others, not so much. Some people take those things VERY seriously lol. A number of people act/feel as if clicking "disagree" means the person that made the post is wrong, that's not what it means, it simply means that you disagree, nothing more, nothing less.
Some people go to the length of pointing out how many "dislikes" a user has as if it determines their "value". When a person takes a non-popular position in a topic more often than not they are meet with all kinds of opposition, negative responses, etc., know that from personal experience LOL.
Some people go to the lengths of creating multiple accounts to "agree with themselves" or try and make others look bad. Ever read a thread that had a number of "accounts" posting similar things and recent "joined" date? Coincidence? Certainly not all the time lol It happens, had an ongoing issue since the first quarter of 2017 and have yet to receive an "appropriate" response, appropriate meaning positive resolution (the responses made by staff, regardless of the extended amounts of time between and the personal effort it took to encourage them were/are appreciated nonetheless).
Some threads are simply echoes of previous ones, a simple search will often reveal similar topics though instead of posting within one already established players often enough want to make a thread of their own for whatever reason(s) which creates an issue. Those "echo" threads are often enough the ones people complain about not being responded to though they are not for good reason (repeats).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
This sort of behavior does come from inability to cope up with the problem at hand and instead to question the arguments and provide valid counter-arguments, people question someone's authority rather than intellectual outlay focused in a post or two.
In the general sense this is not bound just to this particular forum, but to all forums and social media in general and it's bound in the human behavior which neglects the plausibility that you're speaking to an actual person behind the computer. At the very least some netiquette is suggested as a good-to-go strategy when talking to others, however the trolls prefer to believe that they're having fun by messing with people or certain individuals. Forum is one of the best places for such behavioral outlet, unfortunately.
In-game chat is no different, either.
Some people try to derail the discussion to prevent further opposition to the "preferred"/majority idea. The lengths some people go to try and make something more than what it is can be quite amazing. Personally don't see how others can let a stranger over the internet rile them up to such a high degree, seemingly some people are more permeable than others.
Personally refer to it as "cowardly cover" when people go off on others via words on a screen knowing good and well they wouldn't get greasy with people face-to-face.
kreatyve stated it quite nicely: Personally have offered to pay a person's way to meet up and settle whatever difference they had, guess how many have taken the offer? Not that the offer was for violent intent, it was to show that they weren't as serious about how they felt as they put on to be even though the offer was legit.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I have to agree with a lot of what you've said about coping with problems at hand and social media of all sorts. I also want to add two points. The first is that despite age restrictions on certain things, there is always a possibility that we are actually dealing with children. My nephew is 10, and I've caught him red handed trying to type "trash talk" into his game-of-choice's game chat. If it sounds really immature and over the top, chances are you have a kid or young teenager on your hands. The second point is that in all walks of life we meet people who are not socially developed. Could be for any number of reasons, some easier for us to empathize with than others. Sometimes we have to realize the other person doesn't know how to not over react and they don't understand that not letting it go is making them look, It's not easy (and I've fallen prey to this myself) but there are moments when we have to let it go and be the mature one. Doing anything else won't do anyone any good. (Let me stress that I am saying this stuff broadly, not in reference to your unfortunate situation or how you approached it. Please don't think I am commenting about you directly.)
It doesn't help that some people feel emboldened by the anonymity of the internet and gaming. They do or say things to other people that they would never have the nerve to do in person. But that is a different topic altogether. I agree with @trinity706#8838 that some of it is cowardice, Some is also that people don't realize how worked up they are when they are no consequences to how mean or snarky they can be, unlike if you were going off on your coworker or next door neighbor.
Someone once told me that if someone spends all day thinking about how much they don't like you and want to prove you wrong, then who has the power? They're the ones thinking about you all day long while you are the one going on about your life.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Personally when a person makes a post, their post is addressed, not them as a person (how would that be possible in regard to strangers, let alone over the internet anyway?). Trying to guess their age/mental capacity, their culture, why this, why that isn't necessary especially since there is very little (if anything) that can be done to verify what kind of person someone is, let alone if the account they are posting on has "shadow support" of other accounts they have also created, it would take far too much effort to simply still be unsure.
People have varying capacitates in regard to the type of posts they make regardless of age (pretty much anyone can make an intelligent/not so intelligent post(s)) and some people operate in different capacities at different times so the forum "environment" itself contains a lot of uncertainty to try and "pinpoint" a person, how they are, how they think, the "tone" of their words, etc. though a number of people proceed as if they can prove themselves to be 100% correct. Simply going by what is presented helps maintain "order" as well as sanity LoL.
When stepping into the "ring" of the forums one "has" to understand/have a grasp on what they want to accomplish.
Making an unsupported argument is essentially begging for conflict. If a person makes an argument that you disagree with and you are to provide a counter-argument, simply provide evidence (actual evidence, not simply statements that can't be proven/disproved), the "burden of proof" lies with the person making a claim(s). A supported argument trumps an unsupported one (should). Opinions are fine, supported ones are even better.
The forums are filled with unsupported arguments of all kinds and often enough they receive far more attention than they are worth.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Essentially the "disagree" button is just a button until substance it given to it. The other buttons at times could be furthered with some added substance though the disagree button pretty much needs context to positively be effective rather than simply a "spite" tactic.
Have witnessed posts receive a "disagree" not even a minute after it was posted, the one's being referenced weren't even short, not stating that no one on the forums can be a speed reader but damn lol.
Articulation is key as well as comprehending to the best of your ability the statements of others before responding to them.
If you have given a person the courtesy of reading their post in it's entirety, what grounds are there to respond negatively/disagree? It happens a lot, people get so caught up in how they are going to respond, what they want to post, trying to make someone look bad, etc. that they do themselves as well as readers a disservice of providing ignorance. You probably wouldn't want to put yourself in a position of having egg on your face simply because you didn't give the courtesy of reading previous statements, though it happens quite frequently. If nothing else at least "skim" through previous posts, coming in "right off the street" is a bold move especially in regard to a thread pages in already.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
And as far as the topic of the thread goes...There is a time to be nice and there is a time to argue and it depends entirely on the tone of the discussion in question. If the tone is antagonizing, the resulting thread will be as a result of it. If the tone is not antagonizing, reasonable discussion will probably occur. There is a difference between saying, "omg, my dmg sucks now, cryptic is horrible, why you nerf storm spell now I will quit NW you should have nerfed GWF," and saying, "After these changes I found Storm Spell procced far less frequently and as a result my damage has been reduced. Can someone please look into this as I don't think this was the intended result." The first post is immediately antagonizing, calling devs names and upsetting the GWF community and it provides no useful feedback. The second post provides some useful feedback. Yet, most of the feedback on these forums is provided in the form of the first post and not the second and then people wonder why there is lots of bickering and nobody is nice.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
(maybe clicking disagree/agree could be set pull up the entire post similar to when clicking "quote" and the person can delete text that they do not disagree/agree with and everything else left will "highlight" if someone hovers over disagree/agree and then hovers over the name of the account that has clicked either?) That isn't necessary.
Disagree and simply leave it up in the air or provide a reason(s) and bring it down to Earth, though when/if that undisclosed "disagree" is challenged be prepared for the results. As you stated, not providing a reason doesn't necessarily make the other person right though it also doesn't make the grounds the disagree is based upon right either.
If disagrees were not used maliciously, maybe, though when humans are involved not everyone will conduct themselves in a positive manner therefore providing a reason can help exclude it from malicious intent.
As thefabricant previously mentioned: A number of people know that their argument is weak or that their disagreement is based on malice/spite and don't want others to have the opportunity to point it out while they throw stones from the dark. The result of confrontation depends on the individuals involved. Conflict is inevitable on the forums though it does not have to escalate to the degrees it often does.
A LOT of people on the forums want to/make bold statements, not support them and deny others the ability to argue against their statements then turn around and jump all over others and essentially demand that they support their statements when they themselves do not/will not do it for their own. In other words they want to dish it out but not take it, arguably the one's that can't take it are the one's that are continually dishing it out. Simply requiring a "reason" to be entered before it registers or the applicable portion(s) highlighted as previously mentioned will help prevent abuse. Those that intend to abuse the disagree button will not be able to do so while under the cover of ambiguity.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
The majority of the input on these boards comes from a tiny minority of registered users, and if we the wordy would take a moment each time we press the "POST COMMENT" button to ask ourselves a couple of questions and take a second look at what we are about to post up to the community, we might at least better understand the impact what we say cumulatively has on the forums as a whole:
1. Is it pithy?
Rarely does a flood of words contain a drop of sense... I struggle with this one, myself
Mark Twain offers some helpful advice
2. Is it precise?
Too often, side arguments go off-topic and end up going nowhere, only adding unnecessary pages of disagreement to topics nobody wants to sift through just in case someone had something relevant to add in the middle of two or three people contesting semantics or trying to prove a point
3. Is it redundant?
If you have already stated your point, it is not helpful to repeat it but rather it is seen as argumentative and a sign of insecurity
Other people can disagree with you without affecting the integrity of your initial thoughts, so try to wait until you have something new to add to the topic... It is much more rewarding for someone else to defend your point of view than it is to waste hours or days going back and forth with one or two people, and exercising restraint in this regard is much more supportive of a community oriented dialog
4. Is it constructive?
Pointing out problems without proposing solutions is just complaint, so unless the observation being made is supporting a larger effort of finding a solution or is a request for help in finding one, it is probably not very constructive
Its also a good idea when reading or writing to understand the difference between objective and subjective proposition vs assertion
This is the self-editing short list, but personally I also ask myself if what I am about to say is necessary, fair, nice and in context
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Yes, I have a nephew who's occasionally allowing himself to be engulfed in rage moments in various competitive games and it's much harder for teenagers and younger adults to get a hold of themselves in such intense situations. Not all, of course. I do not want to generalize speaking like this. When voicing unpopular opinions on the forum one's going to become a center of attention and would need far more time invested into explaining the opinion for the sake of the benefit. And even at that point one can be wrong and perhaps change his/hers opinion down the line. This I strongly believe.
Unfortunately, the way I speak and write directly is usually my somewhat tactless approach which is bound to sound very confrontational. This has to do with me not being a native English speaker, although I do try to be as clear as possible. Usually I end up having to explain something in-detail which I occasionally find to be taken at a face value as if everyone else know what I know, and then I end up looking somewhat antagonistic or maybe like an elitist despite not having such motives but only genuine helping in mind. My only regret is that the person didn't take a picture of me getting my +5 Ring of the Gravestrikker hehehe
@ Topic : Have I got an astronomical post now
I will stress out that I agree on some points the Fabricant spoke about. However, I do not agree on the value of the "buttons" as they won't ever make me feel uncomfortable. I openly spoke about the issues of the most popular feature, Aura of Courage, only to find myself having a bunch of people who disagree and have divided opinions on it's, to sum it up, "effective balancing magnitude". Of course, I knew what was going to happen if I spoke about it. However, I'm not going to change my mind on that topic until some changes take place. Some people find that as a personal attack on them and everything they ever built in Neverwinter which I usually tend to find extremely misplaced in terms of logic. Using a bug which allows you to maintain something far more than it's supposed to be giving you and you thinking that it's a valid strategy to build up to 100K-200K-300k-400K power and propose it as a valid strategy is something I find to be seriously misleading and calls for the bad behavior in the game.
I know that most of those disagreements come from the avoidance of the confrontation of any kind as well as personal reasons which do not reflect on the gameplay in general on itself. It can be taken as being rude but again can be taken as the lack of knowledge. Perhaps what I speak about is meant to sound like a slow reminder that things change drastically in this game and certain aspects will change things drastically, but for all that matters people shouldn't really make an outcry with such magnitude of irrationality as well as blame placed on Cryptic whenever something that was out of balance - nerfed or, rather, fixed. I usually feel like I'm preaching to a choir, but turns out that people are not really even familiar with the history of Neverwinter changes. Figures for people who came once MOD10 hit around. So for them this game is super-hard and any change which may happen is like the end of the world and all that's saint!
That is how I see the main problem on the forum - class balance stuff. Bugs and lag so some smaller degree. And a very antagonistic approach to Cryptic when things go downhill which I can't say is completely misplaced (MOD6 never again).
Personally, the buttons I use them to acknowledge someone's writing most than anything else. Especially when they talk to me in a topic. I also use Disagree button when people offer something exceptionally wrong or false which helps to avoid confrontation on terms which would derail the topic. I also feel that people usually do not come to seek confrontation on the forum, either. Perhaps they seek to have some information and maybe laugh a bit. For some people that's enough and that's a valid outcome. For me and my forum experience, no. Such things are usually more polluting in my opinion due to their ambiguity. Usually ambiguity more so than anything else.
I've noticed that some people genually get angry if they lead some discussion which is somewhat derailing and have problems if someone types by replying to the first post which started the topic. It's as if they feel that they own the topic or something crazy like that
However, the lack of argumentative skills and the lack of the acknowledgement of what the other person speaks about is generally what will derail the topic into various forms of logical fallacies. At that point it becomes a total charade for everyone to watch and make jokes about.
Unfortunately, yes, some people are fishing for posts that would make them popular and thrive in the charade scenarios. It's similar to a flame war, but usually doesn't hold much maliciousness as much as personal boredom which reflects on the forum writing under the pretension of positivism. That's completely ok for whoever likes that sort of a deal. I prefer something more on the intellectual side. Turns out that such a road is usually a somewhat lonelier when talking about the game balance.
That's why I state that forum might not be the best place for everyone who doesn't have the guts for it and all that may come with it. Luckily, I see some great people in the given topic who maybe share similar outlet or the approach to the forum.
In any case it's nice to be in such company, so I thank you all who partake in this topic.
Also, my nephew is a hot head for sure, but in his case he actually thinks he is supposed to trash talk in games and spam chat functions. It is a case of learning by example. I've been trying to explain to him that he is seeing the bad people no one likes, not the "cool" people.
However, some people are naturally sensitive and will feel attacked over everything that addresses them personally. I don't think there is a way to make this one a win-win.
Often enough the previous statement(s) is quoted and or argued in a different manner to help promote clarity
For the sake of being civil, replace the word "fool" with "person".
Proverbs 26:4-5
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes."
(the quoting of this proverb is not to imply a religious background) Personally aim to provide subjective statements supported by objective statements/information (not necessarily in that order) and often in the scope of a "bigger picture". A number of "arguments" are simply over the "details"/"specific" of a situation. Also a number of suggestions focus on the immediate effects rather than in addition to the overall/possible outcomes as well. Well maybe Vanilla Forums needs more "flavors", similar to Baskin-Robins LoL Isn't that the truth LoL It's a scope within a scope. If a person simply and genuinely surveys the arguments of others and takes a position based on what they get from it and remain on "the sidelines" by clicking a button and not making posts of their own no problem, fair enough though when that same person later chooses to "get into the game" and addresses the posts of others their own previous "disagrees" or "agrees" may very well come into question/be challenged and "should" be prepared to respond accordingly.
If you openly express that you disagree with someone, you are asked why and you fail to provide a reason, that there can open up a portal to another dimension and something far worse than demons and Demogorgon can emerge
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
A disagree without context just feels like trolling. If context is provided (aka, explaining your disagreement), clicking the button is redundant. I think we would overall be better off without the disagree button.
It also not going to change, so I know people will have to deal with it. Just take it in stride
Anyway that's my personal opinion.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!