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QOL Preservation ward atuo fill. or secondary warning that you are about to lose Enchanting stones.

ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
edited December 2017 in General Discussion (PC)
The current mechanic of attempting to upgrade a 3% enchantment is that you may have to go through a stack or stacks of preservation wards depending on your rng. While clicking you get 2 different "clicks", an "upgrade" button and another one that pops up telling you what you're about to use. This method lends itself to loss of Enchanting stones and other refinement resources because of boredom with "clicking" and eventually missing when you run out of pres wards.

The problem is that there is no difference in either menu or pop up when agreeing to upgrade. The wording may change (I can't recall) but the boxes look the same and there is no additional step when your stack of wards is depleted.

I had a guildmate lose 3 UES's today because they had a stack of pres wards that were bound and a stack of unbound pres wards. In clicking quickly they lost track of how many pres wards were left in the unbound stack. When it depleted, it does not auto refill with the next stack, so the UES's were lost upon the next click.

I think a massive improvement would be auto refill and a warning when you've depleted all your pres wards (i.e. a 3rd menu pop up that requires acceptance and is a BOLD warning) or if that's too complicated then simply the popup warning when the stack you're currently using is depleted.

If you think this would be an improvement please show your support.
Thanks
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

imgur pics don't work


Post edited by ltgamesttv#0999 on
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Comments

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    In the boredom of clicking, one can still see the countdown of the p-ward. Was the person AFK or did not look at all? :)
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User

    In the boredom of clicking, one can still see the countdown of the p-ward. Was the person AFK or did not look at all? :)

    As I said, there are ways to ensure this won't happen but the current setup lends itself to mistakes. Of course someone can still see the countdown of the wards, after clicking 150 though sometimes the sheer number of clicks cause you to lose focus/stop paying attention. Often while upgrading, for example, I will watch a show on another monitor because this isn't exactly the most entertaining of game mechanics (perhaps you find it enjoyable and engaging because of the "countdown" watching of pres wards). I have lost cheaper stones before but having a guildmate lose UES's highlighted that this UI could be improved upon.

    Thanks for your reply.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    If I lost one UES that way, I would be so careful that I won't lose another. I've never lost anything due to depleted wards. But that is probably because I am slow. That said. I agree something like what you suggested would be good. The auto-fill should not be hard to implement since your wards inventory is already in the dropdown list. The GUI can probably decide do the auto-fill when it makes economic sense. Or just auto-fill on anything that requires a GMOP or SES or greater.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    Paying attention to what you are doing does have its advantages.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    greywynd said:

    Paying attention to what you are doing does have its advantages.

    So besides the obvious, some of you guys think having an additional warning would not be helpful? I have talked to multiple people already today who have lost refinement due to the lack of a warning/additional safety precaution on the pres wards. It seems all that anyone wants to do is troll about how paying attention is important. Noone would argue that, I'm saying this is an improvement on the current UI. If you have nothing better to say than paying attention is an advantage then please, don't reply. It doesn't add anything at all to the conversation.

    However, another potential QoL related to either auto filling the pres wards/adding an additional warning would be an auto rng button. I.E. you can either click to do one at a time or simply fill a stack of pres wards and have it auto use them until you succeed or run out of pres wards.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    I would also add that the developers have admitted the need for practicality in incorporating protective measures for expensive items, i.e. having to type the name of the item to be destroyed to prevent accidental drag and drop destruction of valuable enchantments. This is all I'm asking for in terms of UMOPs and UESs which are ultra valuable at the moment.

    I don't think this is a terrible stretch from that same phenomenon.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    > @tolkienbuff said:
    > Paying attention to what you are doing does have its advantages.
    >
    > So besides the obvious, some of you guys think having an additional warning would not be helpful? I have talked to multiple people already today who have lost refinement due to the lack of a warning/additional safety precaution on the pres wards. It seems all that anyone wants to do is troll about how paying attention is important. Noone would argue that, I'm saying this is an improvement on the current UI. If you have nothing better to say than paying attention is an advantage then please, don't reply. It doesn't add anything at all to the conversation.
    >
    > However, another potential QoL related to either auto filling the pres wards/adding an additional warning would be an auto rng button. I.E. you can either click to do one at a time or simply fill a stack of pres wards and have it auto use them until you succeed or run out of pres wards.

    LOL... @greywynd prefers to respond to nearly every request for improvements with his signature brand of skeptic mockery, as if he is the only one that knows how to truly play the game

    Trollery aside, I hope your guildmate put in a ticket and that they help him. Mistakes happen, but good design should help players avoid them

    A UI that doesn’t look any different when you do something normal than it does when you are 97% certain to lose several million AD is not a good design, especially considering all the millions of unnecessary clicks normal routines in this game forces on us all

    One easy trick would be to swap the positive and negative buttons depending on whether the user needs to pay closer attention to proceeding, as in: If the normal “proceed normally” button is on the left, and the “cancell process” is on the right, in the cases that proceeding normally is a bad idea, as in the OP’s scenario, swap the buttons so the left button cancels progress and to take the risk and proceed takes an abnormal action
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Not to say an additional pop up wouldn’t be bad either.... we have to spell out “convert” to get rid of generic junk bound artifacts and stuff, so additional protections are already built in an expected
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    At some point in time a player has to take responsibility for their own screw-ups without expecting compensation for it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    greywynd said:

    At some point in time a player has to take responsibility for their own screw-ups without expecting compensation for it.

    The original discussion was primarily meant to discuss a potential safety precaution for a UI mechanic that a lot of players have made mistakes with. I'd prefer not to derail that conversation with tangential dialogue. As I stated the devs themselves have recognized it's important to protect valuable assets in game with added safety features.

    If game masters are ever attempting to determine whether someone is to have their items returned and are in need of opinions regarding over compensation I'll make sure to direct them to experts, such as yourself, in the field.

    Thanks for your reply.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • dafrca#4810 dafrca Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    While I like the idea that they system would save me from myself, I also question how many pop-ups do we need. At some point the number of reminders and pop ups becomes determental. As OP said, "This method lends itself to loss of Enchanting stones and other refinement resources because of boredom with 'clicking'.....". So adding another click just seems like people will speed through it as well and still loose things if they are not paying attention. Myself included by the way. :D
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User

    While I like the idea that they system would save me from myself, I also question how many pop-ups do we need. At some point the number of reminders and pop ups becomes determental. As OP said, "This method lends itself to loss of Enchanting stones and other refinement resources because of boredom with 'clicking'.....". So adding another click just seems like people will speed through it as well and still loose things if they are not paying attention. Myself included by the way. :D

    If you're familiar with the method of upgrading what I'm suggesting would be a third popup which only comes up when the preservation wards are depleted. This means either an actual 3rd UI menu only when attempting to refine without a ward, or changing the regular popup, as @preechr#2215 suggested, with the buttons reversed so no mistakes are easily made through repetition/muscle memory, or lack of attention.

    The whole issue is that there is zero difference in the UI between clicking when a ward IS present and clicking when there is NO ward present. This is what causes mistakes. In improving the UI I would bet they would also decrease the number of tickets related to loss of refining resources related to this mistake. It would save both players and game masters time.

    The other suggestion I made was to add an "auto-refine" function that essentially automatically uses wards until your RNG allowed you to upgrade or until you're out of pres wards. This would completely take care of the issue.

    Thanks for your reply.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • bluangelukbluangeluk Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    I think a pop up when refining that last preservation ward would be a great idea. I lost a 93k Ultimate Mark of Potency to exactly this thing, the other day.

    Some will argue "that's your fault" and yes it probably is, but not all of us sit at the pc, solely playing NW, we have browser windows open, we are talking in voice chat, we are doing other stuff at the same time.

    If the powers-that-be can implement a "Please type 'Discard' before you discard this 'Greater Companion Experience Treatise'", which sell for about 415AD on the auction house, have no real importance/value and are extremely readily available. Then I see no reason why they wouldn't help players protect themselves from a more important loss.

    The amount of times I am told about discarding something which to me, means nothing, is extremely annoying, but I understand why the mechanic is there. Now if they could just do something similar for the important things, I think they would be on the right tracks.



    "Here's a circle... I'm not sure it's a real circle, so don't trust it too much!" Idril (AoGlyph)
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  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    But you aren't discarding the reagents in an attempt to upgrade. You are using them in the manner in which they are intended.

    So now you want a pop-up to notify you that you are doing it without a safety net. Paying attention to what you are doing IS that safety net.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    greywynd said:

    But you aren't discarding the reagents in an attempt to upgrade. You are using them in the manner in which they are intended.

    So now you want a pop-up to notify you that you are doing it without a safety net. Paying attention to what you are doing IS that safety net.

    You are an expert at restating the obvious. Firstly, why did they add the "type discard" safety net for players which is a popup? That's right, for the exact reasons I'm stating, thank you. Why not simply perform the same feature for something much more valuable than some of the inexpensive items that are already protected.

    Secondarily, if anyone is willing to take an attempt at a 3% or less chance with UES's please come forward here and agree with greywind. Anyone? If there is someone here who regularly, intentionally foregoes any kind of ward to risk 93 to 900K X3 on refinement reagents on a 3 or 1% chance please come and defend this individual's statement.

    I'm asking for a simple change in the popup to show that you have depleted your pres wards, yes. If you don't want one fair enough, you can sit and stare at pres wards and count them and be happy as a pig in mud at your superior attention span and precaution. I'm looking out for players, whom the majority I've talked with have lost refinement at some point due to this UI, you simply seem to think it's best if those who aren't as slow/cautious/attentive as you should suffer.

    Ultimately you can scream from the roof tops for players to be more attentive, however it is better to adapt to human behavior. If people are failing at caution, it is better to adjust for reality than to keep yelling "it's YOUR FAULT" at them. This is all I'm suggesting.

    Thanks for your selfless reply.

    Post edited by ltgamesttv#0999 on
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User

    greywynd said:

    But you aren't discarding the reagents in an attempt to upgrade. You are using them in the manner in which they are intended.

    So now you want a pop-up to notify you that you are doing it without a safety net. Paying attention to what you are doing IS that safety net.

    You are an expert at restating the obvious.
    Thanks for your selfless reply.

    No need to get snarky and personal. If I read right, he wasn't.
  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited January 2018



    Secondarily, if anyone is willing to take an attempt at a 3% or less chance with UES's please come forward here and agree with greywind. Anyone? If there is someone here who regularly, intentionally foregoes any kind of ward to risk 93 to 900K X3 on refinement reagents on a 3 or 1% chance please come and defend this individual's statement.

    How about asking for people who, when taking an action that risks 93 to 900K X3, just keep playing Words With Friends, etc?
    I *understand* your request, but cannot justify the programming cost, given what they have to work with ATM.

    What is MORE likely (and easier to code) to be implemented is for them to remove the ability to refine without some kind of ward. Following your example, someone might lose a MMOP/GMOP on some crummy R7s thru R9s.** But then, I would expect people to label it as a cash grab, and STILL not be happy.

    ** This was added to highlight the fact that, to some players, MMOP/GMOPs and R7s thru R9s are the top of the line, for what they can manage right now, and are just as valuable to them as UES are to others.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    greywynd said:

    Paying attention to what you are doing does have its advantages.

    Maybe I'd pay better attention if it wasn't so dull and repetetive.
    greywynd said:

    At some point in time a player has to take responsibility for their own screw-ups without expecting compensation for it.

    Cos I've got nothing better to do than put in a support ticket for 15 gmops I know they will never give back. He's not asking for a button that says, Oh messed up? Click here. He's asking for an additional safeguard.

  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    litaaers said:

    greywynd said:

    But you aren't discarding the reagents in an attempt to upgrade. You are using them in the manner in which they are intended.

    So now you want a pop-up to notify you that you are doing it without a safety net. Paying attention to what you are doing IS that safety net.

    You are an expert at restating the obvious.
    Thanks for your selfless reply.

    No need to get snarky and personal. If I read right, he wasn't.
    Snark is in the eye of the receiver. I would also add that part of the conversation isn't here anymore.
    Post edited by ltgamesttv#0999 on
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    litaaers said:



    Secondarily, if anyone is willing to take an attempt at a 3% or less chance with UES's please come forward here and agree with greywind. Anyone? If there is someone here who regularly, intentionally foregoes any kind of ward to risk 93 to 900K X3 on refinement reagents on a 3 or 1% chance please come and defend this individual's statement.

    How about asking for people who, when taking an action that risks 93 to 900K X3, just keep playing Words With Friends, etc?
    I *understand* your request, but cannot justify the programming cost, given what they have to work with ATM.

    What is MORE likely (and easier to code) to be implemented is for them to remove the ability to refine without some kind of ward. Following your example, someone might lose a MMOP/GMOP on some crummy R7s thru R9s.** But then, I would expect people to label it as a cash grab, and STILL not be happy.

    ** This was added to highlight the fact that, to some players, MMOP/GMOPs and R7s thru R9s are the top of the line, for what they can manage right now, and are just as valuable to them as UES are to others.
    Firstly, who determines the "programming cost"? Are you a programmer? Do you program for this game? There's a lot of assumption about what is easier or not to code. Personally whatever safety measure they take to prevent the easily accidental repetitive click mistake I'd appreciate. Whether it's a change in the popup design, an auto pres ward refine, or the inability to refine without a ward for a certain rank of enchantment that will be costly in terms of refinement resources.

    How about not assuming that it's always people playing other games while playing this one, or like someone earlier mentioned, "are they afk", or saying "they should pay attention". Tbh, this can all be viewed as snark, it's assumptive and semi insulting.

    To be honest, everyone can be caught by a bad mechanic with no safety net by one moment of losing focus. Historically, statistically, people do so. It's the definition of why accidents happen. What all of you who are nay sayers are essentially saying, when I read it, is "Car accidents happen because people don't pay attention, therefore we should not have seat belts because drivers should all always be paying attention" you add the statement "it would be too expensive to add safety belts".

    Technically it's correct to state that people should be more careful, however human behavior dictates we make safety nets, especially when we notice trends of a particular type of accident, that can be costly, occurring. Simply put, rather than just accepting casualties and saying "they should've paid attention, it's their fault", we're more concerned with preventing casualties than pressing a given point that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

    Thanks for your reply.
    Post edited by ltgamesttv#0999 on
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • kungomaximokungomaximo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 22 Arc User
    My 2 cents, and crappy safeguard against loss from repeptive clicking, would be if you don't have a pres ward slotted, swap the "OK" and "Cancel" button in the confirmation window, so if you aren't paying attention and sort of auto clicking the button by muscle memory, refine would stop, and may get your attention.

    Not 100% failproof, but i think can help when you are clicking almost mechanically, especially on lower chance upgrades
  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User

    litaaers said:

    greywynd said:

    But you aren't discarding the reagents in an attempt to upgrade. You are using them in the manner in which they are intended.

    So now you want a pop-up to notify you that you are doing it without a safety net. Paying attention to what you are doing IS that safety net.

    You are an expert at restating the obvious.
    Thanks for your selfless reply.

    No need to get snarky and personal. If I read right, he wasn't.
    Snark is in the eye of the receiver. I would also add that part of the conversation isn't here anymore.
    I only wanted to highlight the snark. Its not the place to do so here, but I would want to see what you called those two statements, if not snark. I'll agree to be disappointed so we can stay on track.

  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User



    Firstly, who determines the "programming cost"? Are you a programmer? Do you program for this game? There's a lot of assumption about what is easier or not to code.

    Someone in the Project Development department at this company, I would assume. Yes, I have programmed for a living, and I have some good experience with how these decisions get made. All I want to do is share that experience in a way that will help everyone (not just the players).

    Personally, I would go along with them adding a stop-gap measure for refinement. I was adding that it is unlikely to happen, due to cost, and the fact that, if done properly, there is no issue (meaning there is a workaround). Even I have had reagents used without really wanting to do so. My situation was caused by lag, and I only lost the reagents for a R11 to R12, but since then, I make it a point to not click the button on high end refines until I am sure the last one finished.

    Part of the problem is that we have been spoiled to the point where we see a logical change (re: add a button), and we assume its basically drag & drop. When people are dealing with Production level hardware and software, no one who is really looking out will take a chance on making a change without thoroughly testing it... and that costs real money in time/lost opportunity/deferral of real time profit for QoL changes. You are, of course, welcome to ask for these things, but I try to temper such requests with the reality of running a project on the scale of Neverwinter. I assume you would rather get real point-of-views than have smoke blown up various orificia.

    With that said, I hope they do find the time to implement some of the changes you have mentioned, in this post, and others.
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    litaaers said:

    litaaers said:

    greywynd said:

    But you aren't discarding the reagents in an attempt to upgrade. You are using them in the manner in which they are intended.

    So now you want a pop-up to notify you that you are doing it without a safety net. Paying attention to what you are doing IS that safety net.

    You are an expert at restating the obvious.
    Thanks for your selfless reply.

    No need to get snarky and personal. If I read right, he wasn't.
    Snark is in the eye of the receiver. I would also add that part of the conversation isn't here anymore.
    I only wanted to highlight the snark. Its not the place to do so here, but I would want to see what you called those two statements, if not snark. I'll agree to be disappointed so we can stay on track.

    Well you missed some of it which can be found in the depths now. Judging snark fairly is seeing both sides. If you want to be disappointed, that's your decision.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    litaaers said:



    Firstly, who determines the "programming cost"? Are you a programmer? Do you program for this game? There's a lot of assumption about what is easier or not to code.

    Someone in the Project Development department at this company, I would assume. Yes, I have programmed for a living, and I have some good experience with how these decisions get made. All I want to do is share that experience in a way that will help everyone (not just the players).

    Personally, I would go along with them adding a stop-gap measure for refinement. I was adding that it is unlikely to happen, due to cost, and the fact that, if done properly, there is no issue (meaning there is a workaround). Even I have had reagents used without really wanting to do so. My situation was caused by lag, and I only lost the reagents for a R11 to R12, but since then, I make it a point to not click the button on high end refines until I am sure the last one finished.

    Part of the problem is that we have been spoiled to the point where we see a logical change (re: add a button), and we assume its basically drag & drop. When people are dealing with Production level hardware and software, no one who is really looking out will take a chance on making a change without thoroughly testing it... and that costs real money in time/lost opportunity/deferral of real time profit for QoL changes. You are, of course, welcome to ask for these things, but I try to temper such requests with the reality of running a project on the scale of Neverwinter. I assume you would rather get real point-of-views than have smoke blown up various orificia.

    With that said, I hope they do find the time to implement some of the changes you have mentioned, in this post, and others.
    I'm glad you actually agree with me, despite feeling the potential solutions offered were too labor intensive. As far as being spoiled, that's your assessment, and one I completely disagree with. As far as making changes without thoroughly testing them... I guffawed at this statement, literally, out loud, laughed so hard I snorted.

    As far as the rest, I agree I am welcome to ask for "these things" meaning QoL improvements that save both players and game masters (in terms of ticket resolutions) time and therefore money. I am also perfectly willing to accept simpler, yet effective solutions.

    Lastly, I don't care what you blow in orifices, however unless a Dev from THIS game says "the fixes proposed are too labor intensive", I don't care what peers/players think about "investment" no matter what their background.

    All that said I'd be glad to see any simple solution to this UI, and the resultant mistakes, and welcome any input regarding those solutions.

    Thanks for your time.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    the devs very conveniently had the resources to code in zen market purchases for wards directly from the refinement tabs when it used to not do that.. no doubt based on suggestions : D to facilitate ease of refinement ..
    they also made purchased stacks to auto open into stacks of 10 when it did not do that before either (it was a bundle you had to go to inv and open and then go back to refine ) this was increasing tedious steps

    so i agree with @tolkienbuff they have made a lot of modifications to this aspect of the game over the years and had the budget to do so ...

    it is in thier own interests to fix this ..buying direct to zen market goods / auto unstacking preswards was ...

    they can just add a ui toggle to warn when attempting below a certain % threshold or without p ward or coal wards etc ..
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    also on another note it is annoying when you somehow succeed and click the button again by accident/due to tedium and it sucks up all your remaining refining points into the item without warning again ..which is fine its its already max level ..but not when you are trying to bank points for various upgrades and poof there they go into an item you did not intend to upgrade nor have the resources to do so yet

    there should also be an option not to dump points remaining either by accident / upon success without a toggle

    lag also changes and adjusst the cadence and pasterns in your clicks changing the timing of the success popups / reaction times skewing things as well
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    kalina311 said:

    also on another note it is annoying when you somehow succeed and click the button again by accident/due to tedium and it sucks up all your remaining refining points into the item without warning again ..which is fine its its already max level ..but not when you are trying to bank points for various upgrades and poof there they go into an item you did not intend to upgrade nor have the resources to do so yet

    there should also be an option not to dump points remaining either by accident / upon success without a toggle

    lag also changes and adjusst the cadence and pasterns in your clicks changing the timing of the success popups / reaction times skewing things as well

    This is another common complaint. After rank 13 most players stop refining because to upgrade to rank 14 is not a good Astral Diamond to stat cost/benefit ratio. Frequently you will click to upgrade and either through lag or repetitive muscle memory your next click or lagged click will cause you to dump RP into an enchant you don't intend to upgrade.

    Yet another reason to place safety nets for players in order to stop this type of accidental rp/refinement resource waste.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


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