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CW in 12b pvp
khandran
Member Posts: 67 Arc User
in The Library
hi all,
wondered if anyone tested out the cw with the cc changes in 12b? Haven't played with mine in some time so wondering whether to keep upgrading him or just concentrate on my other preferred classes. Has gaming with cw become boring with no cc? what are your experiences?
wondered if anyone tested out the cw with the cc changes in 12b? Haven't played with mine in some time so wondering whether to keep upgrading him or just concentrate on my other preferred classes. Has gaming with cw become boring with no cc? what are your experiences?
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If I decide to continue with my CW, now that my biggest source of protection has vanished (control) I might go with Valhalla...crazy that I should be forced to go tanky via that path though! Not sure what others plan. Optimal combos may change too - how long will a CW have to wait to be able to land his Ice Knife combo?
Long story short, I've decided to give my DC a go again. Not too promising with the AS nerf either...
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Rene and Thau instead are in a good position, not overpowered, but can do a good dps and be tanky enough.
But a little change of the classic meta is necessary, let's see when live will be released.
good to know that the dps paths are viable! is it worth still using any cc power, example: wait for cc immunity to finish and then repel + ice knife or just replace all cc powers with straight dps? only way to land ice knife is with cc, but now it seems tough.
@nezdin too bad man. I think oppressors need a change but not to this extent. trappers and trs were more deserving of changes to their cc.
Tough is true, but possible, need a good timing but is absolutly possible.
What the hell have doing, i thinked that the dps was good enough, but ....a naked TR ( NAKED ) just with primary and secondary, me full r14 + unparalled, tryed every kind of combo / config, campfire, permacampfire.
We will see TR with green item killing BiS CW.
GWF....no word....totally owned by them ( if they know how to play,that's for sure ), 2 days of test with a GWF that is able to reach 71k pow in dominion...71k.....in dominion....only me and him in the istance....control don't work most of the time.
DC DPS....they do more damage of us, playable, almost a balanced fight.
GF...hit like a truck like always.
OP.....well, some good test, but is balanced enought
SW, find no one for testing against them
TR = GodMode ON
CWvs CW, we can kill each other.
And then the CW don't need an update ?
GWF pretty much knew as the changes were annouced that this class would benefit the most from them. Lol unstoppable is actually what it says now . Except against TR like everyone else .
Dps DC well least there isn't that many around . They are in the same boat as us and SW , so have someone to talk to .
GF didn't foresee much change except cc immunity cutting into the burst of their rotation. TR has GF number as well .
OP is a surprise since they get to stack more power and HP for more power so would have thought that divine judgment would definitely 1 shot you . TR will own them too.
SW read last one in pvp rerolled to OP .
CW always have killed each other so no change there .
Don't see a HR so can only say TR will take care them too.
CW does damage just doesn't have the burst damage that most other classes do. I don't see them changing the mechanics of how CW does damage so this is very unlikely to change.
Might still be to early to judge how CW will fare in pvp adjustments will be made to cc system maybe help them survive long enough to kill their opponent.
Think we are all stuck with TR till they do work on the class . They already did a slight nerf to TR damage doing another without bumping up encounter and at will damage would cripple the class in PVE .
Yeah, until the dps, even if not on pair with other, was "helped" by the capacity of cc, was enough . But now, with the cc component hit in this way, and without an increase of our base damage.....well....it's sad to say...but we suck vs almost everyone of the other class now, and the damage deal by the other class is enough for one rotate you, sometimes is not even necessary comple the rotation.
And i'm not talking about some glass cannon build, tryed with a full defensive build, neg+vallhalla, full def/deflect/LS, shield on tab....R14+unparalleld.
Ofc tryed vs different build, different class. The most that have impressed me ws the nakad TR without any object, impressive, like i said in another post, we will see TR with GREEN equip just rekt anyone, but this will be a problem not only for CW at last.
I don't know, maybe that a simple adjust of the % in Focused Wizardy ( at last a final 50% ,a good +20% is what is necessary for me )for the single target will be enought for do the trick for our dps, hoping that they will do something first that the module go live.
Yeah that doesn't sound to promising for CW or any of the classes without high burst damage . Still doubt that CW or any of the non bursty classes will get any class specific buffs to damage . The way you describe TR makes it sound like they have gone from bad to even worse to be against for any class.
They just killed the last 6/7 good player with CW that still was doing pvp.
demise cant kill you gf cant kill you noone actually who dont have range attacks.
I think is time to use the enviroment than to do the same and the same thing all the time ( staying always on nodes like we are tanks).
Move away come back and repeat you dont need to be on the node 24/7 to protect it.
They go unstopable ? run even now i do it . IS logic nothing more nothing less. Dont forget they cant cc you if you have immunity. dodge run dodge.
SInce you test things lion prone is also affected from the cc immune?
Same for GF, TR don't need to use lion.
TR Bloodbath will be enought for take away 2/3 of your HP, the last 1/3 will be for SOD, if you survive, some of their atwill will be enough for send you at campfire.
Pillar, in one map, don't you remember what to do with people on the pillar?
Lol I would love to see you out run a gwf , anything you do to move faster they can do as well . All the gwf I see run around like the road runner .
Using pillars only works when you control the node already . So using a pillar is useless otherwise since anyone with any sense at all will LOS or send someone to kill you if its 2 or more .
Node control maps favor melee . Big disadvantage to range classes to be confined to a space that keeps you within melee range to control or capture a node .
The problem the OP is stating is that he can spec for defense/deflect and it still is not helping him survive. Once 12b goes live everyone will have a clearer idea of where all the classes stand . If what the Op says turns out to be right on the mark then range will be completely dead .
stack as much movement as possible double your mount insignia movement bonus (get 2 ) / darks / gear sets that grant movement
healing insignia mounts are less usefull now ..
going off node and over the top on both maps/ attacking is a valid strategy again (death from above)
While I share your opinion that the SW definitely has not turned out to be the puny class that many complain about classing the CW behind it and the DC is ridicuous. HR has lost most and then DC imo - check out HR and DC forums to see.
Also, a CW is more than capable of defeating a GF now if they know what they are doing so I don't think your ranking is accurate. But still like u I may place GF before CW. GWF ahead of CW, also is debatable. Your video show a good CW but he is wearing elven battle against a tanky and very good SW - sorry but that is a big no. Any CW not wearing negation against that SW simply will not stand a chance due to build. Maybe you also got owned because your CW is not built tanky and negation based too.
and incorrectly repelling you out range and following not up encounters properly ..
cws stop repelling people out range when they are low and near death OMG or at least cut the angle more so they go into a wall so your team can follow up and kill them as well .. dont help them escape with your damm repel ... the first hit if they have no immune stacks is gonna push real real far
also the cw did not sieze the moment and use eleven as an advantage and pursue you when you were super low and dodge a lot( with no more dodge pause) and prevent your lifesteals .. and ended up dying anyways being too cautiously far at range ..also i dont think the cw had far spell slotted either another major disadvantage / advantage for you
also that cw is not stacking nearly enough movement and to me at least appears to be moving in slow motion : d
the warlock does not appear to have much base movement either( and is not utalizing warlock slipping/dodging much ) yet still the cw cannot close for the kill
any cw with a 3-5 to 1 kills to death ratio this mod is considered "decent"
even 1 to 1 the guy is still having fun and getting some in
a concentrated ranged burst whilst falling/jumping down on the node from above in a surprise attack formation can be deadly when you unexpectedly join a 1 v 1 when the enemy is low and particularly an enemy that is not used to dying ...ya go in there fellow cws swoop in and take him out kamazazee style
this can be used opportunistically when transiting over the top to node 2 .. go down and kill if the enemy is low / your team member needs help ... or press on to the next point ..
there is nothing wrong with using pillar wither proving you control the node and another team member is there bracing for the next rush you get one or 2 combos in and then jump down as you are needed to hold the node
Like obekpl said, only the HR is in a worste position.
His "classific" about the actual best class reflect almost what i think, i will just change the position between GWF and SW.
@Kalina: if i remember correctly ( pls correct me if i'm wrong ) you stopped to do pvp in mod 6, a little after the LM set fix, the stat that you show ( 10/1 ) to other was good for the first 6 module, from mod 6 after the LM set fix almost all pvp cw converted in the cancer oppressor build , until mod 11, where the new weapon set gived us enought damage for having a good dps again.
Don't take me wrong, you are probably one of the best pvp CW that i've seen, but in the last 1.5 years i've not seen you in dominion, movement will not be enought, even maxed out. GWF, SW, TR, GF will alwasy outrun you. Pillar was a good strategy for mod 1/2/3 , maybe start of mod 4, but now is not exatly the best strategy, but i admit that what was good in the past can be good even now.
Build a CW just for hit and run, for having good stat on the leaderbord is not exatly what i call a good idea at all.
Yes, you can show to everyone " hey , i've a great kill/death ratio, i'm the best of the best", but if you must pass all your time in dominion running away, taking kill from other, running away for not ruining your k/d ratio.......was your style, nothing wrong with it, is always a way to play your CW.
lolz stopped doing pvp in mod 6 wtf LOLZ. umm nope there is a link my my mod 8 or 9 stats below bro . yes i recognise you as one of the top 10 cws ..
i took a break mod 11.5 12 for a bit and i am on the 12.5 board at the moment
a cws is adaptive and should be able to switch from offensive mode to defensive mode on the fly to suit the situation and thier teams heath. without dying and changing spec at camp.. situations can change when a player gets kicked on either team and a cw needs to adapt ..or the other team was just playing you and artificially giving your team a node only to farm them
building for hit and run just lolz dude you cant run when you have to stand on the node in a premade ..
in a lopsided match with no chance you pick your targets yes you manoeuvre if out numbered
there is no standing your ground when there are 3 semi premade player son the opposite team determined to kill you at all costs and they ignore the rules of capture to bee line twords you
also build for hit and run someone would favor an elven enchanment for more dodges cc imunity wheras i was using a negation ..i was built counting on being stun locked and rooted on a point in order to capture it
matches also favor more flow and fast movement with new cc stack changes
also allowing you to get into a better postion to repel or ake a longer router around chasing someone and still arrive in time to save the point
with current crit changes an opening devastating barrage from the pillars with combat advantage or balacany before jumping down and engaging is quite an acceptable strategy especially if you got there fast and your team is leading holding 2 out of the nodes .. you dont always have to own 3 nodes to win
also would be using an ambush ring and a shadow clad if built for hit and run
the whole tr class is based on hit and run lol warlock too rangers too to some extent and so are gwfs lol.. and i am not invisible either
YOU TELL ME IF MY STYLE WAS ALWAYS RUNNING AWAY IN A PREMADE BRO ASK AROUND
the cleric would leave me alone on the points to hold it i did not need a baby sitter unlike other Cws .
and yes hit and run is valid if you are leading the match and need to chase down the most dangeorus members of the other team..anyways not going to sit down and explain pvp strategy at this moment
in a lost match what i am going to just stand around on the node ... the cws could not kill any other class at thier gear score for many mods you are suppport so yes you need to depoy and run around
i was never an oppressor build cause it was not a good build for solo
omg movement is not only for getting away i wrote a whole post with 12 uses for movements
capping the nods faster catching a feeling opponent etc . ya some classes can be faster then you so what
try to minimise it
even if other classes are faster then you what about more movement for fighting people of your own class lol
Also FYI ...with some of the best cws stats on the leader board you dont think i had a huge target painted on my back ( no choice but to be a super defensive build ) ... with people trying to gank me 2 and 3 v 1 all the time . Dont tell me i was not doing my duty distracting enemy team members and playing my role properly to force wins
and if i was not dying dont you think that would make people sometime want to klil me even more to the detriment of thier own team and make them lose the match ..is it not a valid strategy not to die or kyte enemies if you cant kill them due to class balance and not gear or powers lol
so what i play a cw hardmode on all the time for me and i like it
I will be writing the definitive Pvp cws guide in the coming months looking forward to your input
here are some interesting pvp leadboard stats lol look at the overall and look at the cws and it is not mod 6 lol
http://i.imgur.com/jm3DDxv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QcbUIuI.jpg
I took a break because there were like 10 good pvp cws and some were in my guild and non attackable as well cws in premade matches no oppsing cw could take me out and the point would crumble when th e opposing team cleric could not heal thier repel bot over my damage ...i did not need any more damage to take out tanker non (cw or hr or warlocks ) guys ..in order to win the match and win the point
if i was constantly fighting off node and running around and not capping points i would be constantly getting vote kicked too would i not ..i think i have only had a dozen or so kicks against me in tens of thousands of matches
thanks for your reply
to any cws that are not stacking or double stacking some movement GG
would you consider helping to put together a guide with a few of us for ps4 and xbox players as well
Evey suggestion of how to increase survability , don't mind who does them, is an help. The pillar suggestion, everything you said is what i call "strategy", and always like i said, what was good in the past ( like pillar )can be good even now.
Thx for sharing with us your suggestion.
PS: it's really a lot of time that i don't find you in dominion, is a pleasure know that you are still active.
I take what you say as a compliment yes i am very active in the community and have "opinions" .
about the pants ..
oh you mean before i knew they were bugged and before they fixed them .. ya i used them for a few matches (waste good guild marks on them too ) someone told me they wer enot working as intended then i took them off ..
and they are still not fixed properly and i still dont use them and wont use them like drains or ambush rings (guild rules ) which i also used for a few matches and ditched them .. ap drain i never used ..
also I made quite a few posts to the devs about them (sandy pants ) too as well as other bugged cc items would you like the links ? or are you going to try shame me in front of peers ?
i sorry was this a discussion about killing top characters? .. or that the cw is underpowered ? or about you being salty about SOD because you get my vote to agree on that we agree ... i play my best with the tools that i have .. ok
sorry i suggested ways to counter the warlock build as they are not in a good place right now maybe mod 13 hang in there
you want my letter to the devs telling them how crummy cws are in pvp cause of cc changes cause i wrote plenty of posts on that
and you are here critiquing me me when i am trying to give tactical advice
big mouth or not the video is there for analysis and i am right the cw should not be repelling someone out of range when they are low on health ..
are you saying cw has no chance against warlock now ? cause that was what the video was about and that was what i was commenting on
maybe i should start a poll Question ...
from a tactical perspective should the Cw repel the enemy out of range and not against a wall/ surface so that his allies cannot follow up with damage etc especially when the guy is low on health and a threat that must not get away lol and especially if the repel is not followed up with ice knife or massive burst damage
ya the Cw class is bad in pvp now blah blah and i am making the best out of the situation
you want to work on some solutions to buff the cw then fine you will get some of my votes
also pvp as a cws extends my entire career mod 2 - 12.5 depending on mod i can take out players of my gear score of certain classes or not .. i dont have to show videos for you to know Cw is not top dog in pvp
at the moment cause we can agree on that right
thanks for your reply and i know you are upset with the state of the cw in pvp I always liked extreme hard mode lol
From the sounds of it there are a lot of new options or roads we can take to remain competitive in Mod 12b, and Kalina has touched on a few of those things in other posts already.
Rather than sharing the negative effects of the changes, lets get some positive dialog about what we are doing to get better.