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Strongholds and how to help smaller guilds
onlymat
Member Posts: 353 Arc User
Some things I would like to see.
Influence: It should be possible that every Quest in the game give little influenece. So by playing the game you get infliuence and it should stack up like guild marks. When you enter an Stronghold an go to the coffer you can donate it. and it starts from 0 again. The more you play the more influence you get. It even would make sense for guildless people to get Influence and if they join a guild to get better gear they donate the influence - win for everyone.
Alliance donations: Because the big Guilds in alliances get the most out of discont on building structures something for the small guilds could be done. The Discount a gauntlet guild gets gets added as coffer donation.
For Example - Sword Guild1 Gauntlet Guild 1 (5 percent discount on buildings) - Sword Guild donates Gems 30 into the coffer. 1,5 Gems gets automatically added to the guild coffer of the gauntlet - this way every gauntlet guild gets more and more donations.
Events: Instead of Dragonflight there could be the Siege Event every hour? every 2 hours? or possible to start it for the alliance with 2 bells? This way people who want to farm can do it and help their guild.
Tools: It should be possible to guild leaders to see when a member was last on SH map or last login happend. It's a pain to manag inactive members. Also a ranking of donations this week this month this year all the time would be nice.
Stronghiold companion - the stronghold companion give you the chance to drop blue vouchers in stronghold whenever you kill an enemy. NO COOLDOWN !!!! It should be possible for people without a life
to drop vouchers all the time. If it gets too much raise the requirements for the buildings. If companion is not possible make a gem like Stronghold gem like dragonhoard - a drop chance for withe to epic vouchers.
But also NO cooldown! I hate nothing more when im online and things stop dropping. I play the game i want a to see progress.
Add legendary vouchers to the drop Table of some really hard dungeons - unbound so people who run without a guild can make alot of AD selling them - win for everyone.
Waht do you think?
Influence: It should be possible that every Quest in the game give little influenece. So by playing the game you get infliuence and it should stack up like guild marks. When you enter an Stronghold an go to the coffer you can donate it. and it starts from 0 again. The more you play the more influence you get. It even would make sense for guildless people to get Influence and if they join a guild to get better gear they donate the influence - win for everyone.
Alliance donations: Because the big Guilds in alliances get the most out of discont on building structures something for the small guilds could be done. The Discount a gauntlet guild gets gets added as coffer donation.
For Example - Sword Guild1 Gauntlet Guild 1 (5 percent discount on buildings) - Sword Guild donates Gems 30 into the coffer. 1,5 Gems gets automatically added to the guild coffer of the gauntlet - this way every gauntlet guild gets more and more donations.
Events: Instead of Dragonflight there could be the Siege Event every hour? every 2 hours? or possible to start it for the alliance with 2 bells? This way people who want to farm can do it and help their guild.
Tools: It should be possible to guild leaders to see when a member was last on SH map or last login happend. It's a pain to manag inactive members. Also a ranking of donations this week this month this year all the time would be nice.
Stronghiold companion - the stronghold companion give you the chance to drop blue vouchers in stronghold whenever you kill an enemy. NO COOLDOWN !!!! It should be possible for people without a life
to drop vouchers all the time. If it gets too much raise the requirements for the buildings. If companion is not possible make a gem like Stronghold gem like dragonhoard - a drop chance for withe to epic vouchers.But also NO cooldown! I hate nothing more when im online and things stop dropping. I play the game i want a to see progress.
Add legendary vouchers to the drop Table of some really hard dungeons - unbound so people who run without a guild can make alot of AD selling them - win for everyone.
Waht do you think?
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Comments
As mentioned before, i would start at the beginning...
+ The basic stronghold structures should only require what a stronghold can provide at the given time.
+ The following few ranks of the buildings would need some extra gold/AD.
+ And the rest of the building ranks would also get their costs adjusted.
To make it short, it would be much easier to build a small but functional stronghold within a few days/weeks, and a "complete" stronghold would also have more reasonable costs.
Anyway, instead of giving small guilds a better chance in getting a stronghold set up, the Devs rather dump more grind onto the whole thing with new stronghold "features"...
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10469413-developer-blog:-stronghold-structures
A successful Siege event takes 15 minutes to give 6-10 worse-than-white-quality vouchers. Or 30 minutes for 12-20ish. Or 45 minutes for 25-40 worse-than-white-quality vouchers, worth 5 guild resources and 1 guild mark each. You are literally better of hunting normal enemies in the stronghold during non-event time for the white-quality "Stolen X" vouchers: each of those is 10x as good.
The siege event's rewards are trash, and the only reason to run it is the 600 influence, once a week.
Fearless Wolves - GM
Slorik - GWF
Eevil'N - CW
Sybyl - GF
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S'karn Corsair : KDF Gorn Intelligence
Sounds like another I WANT IT AND I WANT IT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I'M "EXCEPTIONAL" RANT. Cultivate patience and it will get done.
dictatorleader being afraid of losing a few worker bees.And doubtfull that most players will agree with you on looking at a 5 years grind as "reasonable"...
This is the reaseon why they should add something with no cooldown. So if I want to farm for 10 hours for guild it should be possible - the game ist build you pay or invest time - but invest time is no way getting Stronghold upgraded - Quartermaster stops dropping everything has a cooldown - so I ask you:
What exaclty can a small guild do if he have 10 hours today to play - after 20 minutes drops are gone after other 10 minutes influence ist done - what to do the last 9 and a half hours for Stronholds? And please dont't say farm tyranny of dragon or other currency - because also this will not work - you know how much you get from currencys.
And last thing: Almost all big guilds you had to pay to join - Stronghold starter pack or more - if 100 players do this the progress is really fast - burt that means it's a paid progress - not doable for a casual guild.
I'm guild leader of a rank 12 guild we go to 13 soon - but if I would not be guild leader I would refuse to buy anything for the guild - because - i buy now and can be kicked whenever the leader decides to do - so all my money gone - I don't get it back - so if I buy a mount i have it forever. if I make a new char i get that mount again. For Stronghold things to buy this doesn't work.
All the guild marks in the world won't do you any good, when you have no access to a decent guild stronghold...
Therefore:
+ If a guild member gets kicked out of a guild, 75% of the donations will be refunded in a voucher, that doesn't produce any guild marks, when it's donated to another guild again.
+ If a guild member leaves a guild, 50% of the donations will be refunded in a voucher, that... same as above.
Any stronghold boons will be paused, and any building/upgrading progress will be put on hold, until that loss has been replenished.
This would level the playing field between guild members and leaders, and it would give guild members at least some kind of security, that when the HAMSTER hits the fan, they won't end up empty handed.
Anyway, i still hope that the Devs will come to their senses, and start giving small guilds or lone wolfs a chance for a small but functional guild stronghold.
SH Donations should be tied to account, full stop. I'm truly astonished that most people go along with how it is currently. Of course I'm astonished at a LOT of the things most people will just go along with...
It's about as solid as taking the position that you'll never in your life put in the time or emotional investment to make a friend, because sometimes friendships end, and then you'll never get back what you put in.
It assumes that absolutely every guild must be run by the most toxic, conniving, and mercenary person you can imagine, with the sole purpose of acting out their power trip and forcing you to be their slave for as long as you can stand it.
Yeah, there's a leap of trust involved, but that doesn't mean it isn't even worth looking for someone you would feel able to trust.
Not every guild makes equal demands. Some even take the position that making no demands means that members had better have equally low expectations regarding the perks like guild boons. If you insist, you could call it freeloading of whatever you do get, but the license to not be complained at means you have no license to complain either.
Lower ambition for better living.
(I don't want this to sound strident. It just kind of hurts to see people depriving themselves when it ain't gotta be that way.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
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Something else I've noticed. Friends stay your friends no matter what guild you're in. Sure, it's nice and often preferable to be in a guild where your friends are but things don't always work out that way.
Anyways - Back to the OP.
I would like for there to be a way to earn more influence, gems and other needed resources for guilds. Influence seems to be a bottleneck for pretty much everywhere. I think the addition of the temporary structures for different things is a step in the right direction. However, I'd like it if you got some influence for doing the Adventurer shard quests in different zones. Influence + Adventurer shards
I'd like for unbound vouchers to be on the loot table for epic dungeons too. Maybe a choice pack or something similar would be nice.
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I don't assume that EVERY guild is run by someone like that, but my life experience has taught me that if you bet on the decency of the average person, you'll usually lose. I don't have a problem taking a chance on a friendship, but I'm not eager to over-extend myself to the point someone would be in a position to totally screw me over. I've had quite a few 'good' friends in my life. I can count the number of people I would give $1,000 to keep in case I needed it one day on one hand with fingers to spare. This extends to my experience with people in games.
I have trust issues. I've earned them.
Regardless of guilds offer an environment and people who do stuff, if we talk about boons, you donate (or don't donate, per guild requirement) and you get the boons and guild marks.
If you leave a guild, and join another, they will not ask you to pay for all the missing days since mod7 (At least 99% of the guilds on on PC). As with renting apartment, you don't pay for a time you weren't in, but at the same time, not the guild, nor you owe any compensation to the other party if one of you decide to end the rent, and you change residency.
You are not a co-founder or someone who put the extra time to make the guild grow, recruited people, guided, did events, put millions of AD worth of stuff, and then got kicked. You are talking about a situation where you afraid to do the minimum required, which in a lot of guilds, is absolutely nothing, and in some is to participate in DF and such or do influence which is negligible (10min) and you have issues with that...
Sorry, but in my opinion, this is absurd.
Adjusting the costs of the lower ranking stronghold structures/upgrades for example would only take a few minutes, but it would help players struggling with their current stronghold, and may be even bring back some former players too.
The "donation insurance" on the other hand will probably need more time and testing, but should be in the realm of possibility as well, and will give many players at least some peace of mind.
And since it's "sooo easy" to come up with enough resources for stronghold donations, what would be the big deal of binding those (within reason, and with rules as mentioned above) to an account instead?
I mean, since some of you are in good guilds, that have their stronghold either allready fully set up, and/or have no problems with donations, those changes shouldn't even affect you negative at all...
So, what's the real problem here?
I also love the idea of an enchant that drops useful guild vouchers.
And I will reiterate my idea from other post - they need to add another line item to the mimic labeled "Junk" where we can throw in all of the worthless stuff that no one wants (hecklers, Breyers, leveling equipment) and each one gives a tiny amount of credit- when you hit a certain level say 10K or 100K in the junk category - the guild leadership can apply that as a 1K credit to a needed thing like IWD resources or gems. It needs to be where you have to put a ton of it in there for a 1K credit, but it will at least give us something to do with our useless items other than selling for gold.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Sorry, but in my opinion, this is absurd.
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I'm done though. I lost this argument the day Mod 7 went live. If everyone but me is crazy, then by definition, I'm the crazy one. Despite appearances, I got over it a long time ago though, just with all this SH talk from the new Mod, something occasionally grabs my attention. I'll be glad when Mod 12 comes out so I'll have something else to think about.
As was said many times, and you just choose to ignore, there is a large number of guilds that require nothing to join, and nothing to remain. This entire "I'm not in a guild because I'm afraid to loose my contribution" is completely moot and absurd, as again, nothing required of you. Some of those guilds are high rank 16+ including guilds at 20.
The entire philosophical argument about the guilds system, screwed over, and trust issues as much as it's interesting is, again, irrelevant, if you are not required of anything.
You join, you stay, worst case you leave or get kicked....
The non relevant to your case, are the contributors, and there are mainly 2 types, those that do the bare minimum that the guild requires and those that do much more. By contribution I'll include not only strict material 345 influence for example, or much more in the case of those who contribute a lot, but also, socializing, organizing, helping other members, joining groups, making events, sometimes even just chat, or even the quiet people who will join stuff and help out whenever needed. While not as easily quantified all of those are contribution, take time and it is something to loose when changing a guild.
The minimum contributors, are 'rent a boon', they give 345 influence (for example) they get boons. They can always leave and join another guild and get bigger / different boons, or structures or what they want. They got their guild marks when contributed, and the boons for the duration. You didn't buy anything for the band, you joined a bend and rented the instruments you play on. There are 150 instruments and you are taking one.
Some are fine with that as members and leaders, I personally am not.
And there are those who are involved, and again, in simple coffer it can be lower than the above minimum contributors, but to the guild as a whole it's more. Here it's more of a problem.
But luckily, as I've wrote the last has nothing to do with your issue of guild membership, you can do fine with the 0 contribution and minimal. So there is no excuse.... You bring it up every time. A lot of your posts, at least that I saw, are about "I'm mainly solo player and the game design doesn't like me" and 'Evil guild leaders are all aiming to screw me' (exaggerating a tiny bit, but you get my point), and each time the answer is that there are channels, and guilds without requirements, but then you are done, and bring it up again next time.
Obviously, I have my opinion and you have yours, but IMO you should look at it as opportunity to find those people you can trust and not afraid of getting screwed. Guilds are by far not what can screw you the most in the game.
The part of the convo that caught my interest was focusing on the problem of potentially losing your investment in the form of guild donations and the very real chilling effect that can have on participation. Others convos focus on other problems. If I joined a guild tomorrow, all those problems would still exist (for myself and/or others) and I would still chafe over them. I try to keep from getting sucked into "lets fix the messenger instead".
Also, while I'm very glad they exist (my hat's off to you Becky, Onlymat, and others), I don't see uber-casual guilds as the answer, I see them as proof of the broader problem. The current system is forcing a lot of people into a mode they obviously would rather not have to be in so they don't get left behind. How is that good? Objectively speaking, why should someone who doesn't want to be in a guild have to be in one at all? Because someone else said so? So they can freeload? Do you want people in your guild that don't want to be there, Micky?
Revisiting the actual topic (without arguing over my rl comparisons): Is letting coffer donations be tied to the donator's account in some fashion good or bad, and for whom? I'd argue that most of the very people who would argue it's a bad idea are unknowingly the exact reason it's a good idea. I know that's not fair in a polite conversation, but I think it's true.
Can I go now?
But in order to be able to progress we had to start letting in strangers - that was hard to do, because most of us are "in charge" at our respective jobs and we really didn't want to feel responsible for anyone else's game play or their enjoyment.
Now we have been lucky in that when we finally decided to let people in, the people we have gotten have become good friends... but we also don't ask anyone to do anything - and we don't promise them anything. We will never be a rank 20 guild and we are okay with that... but I still think there should have been the option for the 20 of us to have had our little guild and progressed. Yes it turned out better for us - but it shouldn't have been the only way.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
The counter to your argument, if someone leaves a guild, which happens all the time with people who decide they want to move to a guild where more people speak their native language, or they just met the item level and necessary unlocks for a guild with stringent requirements, or they decided to change guilds to better play with a friend, or even if they did quit over bad blood... should the guild they just left lose progress based on that? Withdrawing whatever you put into the coffer would need to be compensated in some way, possibly to the extent of losing building levels. That would suck for everyone remaining in the guild.
At any rate, I don't really see how a guild can cheat you of your material investment if you don't join one that enforces that you must donate (as an up-front membership fee, or weekly dues, or whatever).
You donate to the coffer, as you will. You get guild marks. You spend the guild marks on gear, or on items that you can sell for AD, or a number of other options. Lack of varied worthwhile stuff to spend guild marks on has been handily resolved in the 11b build.
If you leave a guild, voluntarily or involuntarily, the guild doesn't keep your gear. It doesn't keep your AD, your enchants, or any other stuff that is actually yours. It does keep whatever stronghold progression you contributed to, and this can be deeply unfair (there are undeniably cases of players who slaved for a guild and were given the boot), but the game has compensated you with guild marks, and unless you dump those directly back into the guild in some way (there are ways to do that now too), whatever progress you obtained using those guild marks is also still yours to keep.
The loss of a guild, and personal investment in a guild, if it's boons, those are impersonal. One Barracks is the same as another, etc. Your donations, you got back what Cryptic deemed the going rate for what you put in. It was up to you to decide what to with that.
It's the people in a guild that are irreplaceable if you change guilds, who might lift you up or hurt you badly, who might become your friends or only want to use you. Or who offer the option of cheerfully ignoring you if that's your preference.
So... you're framing what I view as mostly an emotional concern, one of the fear of attachment and betrayal, in a financial argument. And I don't think the financial argument is valid. It might be if you got nothing at all back from guild donations except the benefits directly attached to the stronghold, but you don't.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
THAT said, this is the first game I have played in a long while where I decided to join a guild. I have been a guild leader and officer and spent 8 years leading a guild that would probably be termed uber casual now. Kinda got burnt out and liked playing on my own or with my husband in a duo.
I thought about joining a guild in Neverwinter but chose to wait til I hit 70 to not be a burden on a guild. HA! Who knew the game really started then eh?
I hadn't done any dungeons, I didn't really group, but, I missed the social interaction of like minded players that you get from a guild. So, I joined one that had a very appealing (to me) recruitment post....and if it wasn't for that; I would have lost interest in this game. Not because they got me doing dungeons, and sometimes carried me through (though there was plenty of that...I am still a newb compared to those I play with...and they never made me feel like I was being carried)....or introduced to me to content I might not have played as solo or duo....but because the people are seriously awesome.....and I get to donate to a guild coffer and work towards a common goal. That just added another level of interest to the game.
I don't feel like grinding in the river district? Or hanging out in SOMI? I just have 45 minutes to kind of hang out? I can do some influence and chat. Or not chat and just watch others chat! That is not something I would have found had I not joined a guild. I had absolutely zero idea what level the guild I decided to apply to was....and if I had, it would not have meant anything to me anyhow...I mentioned the newb thing right? Their recruitment post resonated with my playstyle.
I don't view any contributions as an investment though; it's just another part of the game to enjoy. What else would I do with that "stuff"?.....course...there probably wouldn't be any stuff because I probably would have moved on to another game.