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Are PVP drains a good addition to the game?
ltgamesttv
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Are PVP drains a good addition to the game? 73 votes
Drains add depth to the PVP experience.
13%
10 votes
Drains help lower geared players defeat higher geared players.
0%
Drains help lower skilled players defeat higher skilled players.
4%
3 votes
It gives guilds something to work towards.
1%
1 vote
It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
41%
30 votes
Drains are a pathetic way for people with low skill and high gear score to stomp pug teams and feel better about themselves.
39%
29 votes
0
Comments
2. Boons
3. Artifacts
4. Overload slots
5. Special Mounts
6. Stronghold boons
7. Drains
8. Insignia (next mod)
There are so many LAYERS in this game added every mod, that add tons of RNG on top of unbalance between classes that leads away from fair competition.
Take any game that has good active competitive community and you will notice the following.
1. The gear is equalized
2. The terms are FAIR for both sides (equal class count, no double pally etc')
3. Classes are BAREBONES and stripped down from all the RNG enchants.
This applies to pretty much anything, not just MMO, even FPS (CSGO, COD, BF).
The more layers the less pure skill vs skill is involved.
no more wrong than 8k boons, no more wrong than mounts with 4k armor pen, no more wrong than some armor enchantments.
You see the funny thing here is there is 0 hypocrisy coming from me. I NEVER use drains, I NEVER use broken rings. I can, right now I could slot both. I could go around increasing the gear difference further by draining my opponents. I could wreck everyone by using stupid cheap mechanics.
The problem is this, this doesn't actually help lesser geared opponents because you have to have a high level guild to access them. This doesn't help with the gear gap, it worsens it. I don't use them and I complain at those who do because they are pathetic, poorly planned, poorly implemented garbage that completely ruins all classes in PVP. They 100% remove what little skill is associated with the game.
New players being drained can never properly learn their class and rotations as they are constantly stamina starved and without dailies. It discourages new players and makes seasoned players quit the game. So I LOL at your comment that it adds depth to the game because there is zero good reasoning for this and I can't help but laugh at how ludicrous it sounds.
Hope that helps to explain.
If you can't answer these questions, it is quite obvious that you're just another drain user excusing and rationalizing with no tangible evidence or logic to your poorly thought our response.
Thanks for your reply
I don't think I'm high and mighty, just mighty, no drugs here XD. Seriously though, if you're interested in what that polls' outcome would be, how about you take a little bit of your own time and create that Poll. I will be glad to vote there and post politely an answer as to why I voted that way, sans "high and mighty" comments
I still stand by the fact that the idea that drains "add depth to PVP" was actually more of a joke for the vote in my mind. I literally lol'd to see someone vote for it.
Dude, you keep putting nonsensical words in my mouth. Stop making straw man arguments. I have never complained about glyphs, anti-class wards, or anything of the kind. This reply is literally ridiculous. Just stop.
My only real complaints are the ambush rings and the drains. I'd love if they completely leveled the playing field but one thing at a time. I don't know why you feel the need to argue topics that are a non issue here.
just was drained by a Guild name redacted. No naming & shaming please. near 4k Pally with these drains and it did not feal like PVP
yesterday an Guild name redacted. No naming & shaming please. ambush BIS warlock crossed my way, he really did his guild a big favor running al time in stealth being BIS, these guys destroy any reputation a guild could have in no time
what about mod 9 , do we get drains that nullifies power or crit to zero?
Sadly PVP was always too heavily dependent on gear. The game has THE best action combat amongst all MMOs out there, but i it never had a true PVP system i and many wanted to see, something like ancient Rome had with the gladiators, basic armor, one off hand and one main hand and basta, let's fight. There would still be some difference in builds and PING, but that's not such a disturbing fact.
As each module added more broken stuff to PVP we got where we are now, a huge mess and the big exodus of PVP players either into PVE only or away from the game.
Whenever i look at PVP i have to think about Domino, let one stone fall and all the others will follow. Sure in short term the complete removal of the drains would help the PVP community a bit, but would it cure? No, of course not, too many things would have to be taken away and fights would have to be equalized, but first of all classes would need a huge balancing act.
Now just think about Stronghold. Who are the main driving force and revenue makers behind it. Yes the PVP guilds. The PVE or mostly PVE guilds don't need anything from Strongholds tbh. Content in PVE can be done without any Stronghold gear and without any boons at all. PVP is the main driving force behind Strongholds.
Now hands on the chest or a look in the mirror, how many of the PVP guilds in this game would want to fight an equal, Roman style fight? My guess is not many. The fear of getting beaten by an average player is all too high, you can witness this day in and out in IWD, when 2 players duel and some others jump right on the lonely poor guy and beat him to eternity. Nobody needs to be a genius, that that guy will eventually lose all interest in PVP, natural reaction from a sane human being.
So, if we make equalized PVP and take away the huge boons, the 140% stat mounts, the mythic gear, the rank 12s, etc. guess how many top PVPers would put time and money in Strongholds? Guess not many. Strongholds is sadly all about the monstrous boons and the drains. It would have been a nice addition, if it would have featured a quest line with some lore and a few normal boons, like we have them in other campaigns, but no wasn't meant to be and in current form it only pushes the power creed even further.
Just my personal experience at the end. I had a fellow GF friend, we leveled together in some PVP matches through lvl 60-70 and i had most of the time the upper hand. We reached lvl 70 and from that moment on i got my own medicine back, now i was the one , who got beaten more. What happened, did i lose my skills over night? No, of course not, he just activated his huge boons, that my small guild didn't have. End of story.
My conclusion, yes remove drains from PVP, BUT if we really want to see PVP full of players, we need to make a bigger step and get rid of many many more things, which likely won't happen, cause this part of the game is the biggest ego playground and so the biggest money maker. I personally would be happy, if only the drains and the mega boons would disappear from PVP battlefields and only remain for PVE. Actually this would be a win-win situation for both the company and us, customers. Strongholds would still be useful and those of you, who have a high ranking Strongholds, you wouldn't lose the work/money put in it, but PVP would become a lot more healthier and populated again.
Let's cross our fingers, that this game mode still survives and will see some sunshine again!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I would also propose to tone down that overheal from classes like OP/DC + this mega selfheal you can get by tons of stuff like artifact, sets etc.... too much
I assure you noone will go SH/GG in case he can find any competetive map where this HAMSTER doesn´t work
Stamina drain takes away the dodge mechanic, taking away a very foundamental part of the combat system.
Drains have a monster impact on PvP. A player with drains vs a player without wards or drains will win easily, getting a HUGE advantage. Other overload enchants DO NOT impact that much. Drains force players to slot other drains or wards, where without them players would slot either generic stat overloads OR specific vs class overloads.
Instead, everyone is "forced" to use these drains and wards. Takes away variety. Bad.
Also: most overloads with limited impact on the overall performance of a PvP toon, are easily available to everyone. Drains and wards rank 2 in particular mark a very clear line between the "haves" and the "have nots", and also the "will never have".
Basically, a "will never have" (player from a small guild) vs a "have" player, will never have a chance to even fight back.
You either take them away or drastically reduce their impact to be in-line with other overloads.
There are no excuses: these drains are not a good addition and they do not contribute to PvP in any good way.
But the same goes for SH boons. While i love the way a guild can coordinate efforts to achieve a big result that is PROPORTIONAL to the GARGANTUAN amount of effort the whole guild must put into upgrading their SH and boons, i also believe that at least all players should have access to similar stat boosts. Guild or not, big guild or small guild.
8k life steal, 8k power, ArP, defense, 30k HP and so on...
Now, one way could be to allow single players to go through a campaign that allows them to get the very same boons, and have the choice to either activate the "single player" boons or the "guild boons". Obviously, the effort required to upgrade such boons must be proportional to the gain. Which means: huge. No complaints. Being in a guild would allow a player to "share" the burden and obtain them faster, while a lone wolf player would need to put effort and dedication to get the boons he wants.
Another way, instead, might be to have consumables that temporary grant the desired stat, obviously behind some proportionally hard crafting or quest.
These items and boons basically cause a widening of the already huge abyss that separates big guilds from a normal player.
Also, a working PvP matchup that actually DOES NOT allow premades and forms teams taking the overall "strenght" level into account, including the boons. So that a boonless 2k toon is not thrown against a 4k toon with all bons and all SH boons toons. Which is basically the same as putting a Powrie against Tiamat.