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The Truth About Klingons
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
One of the biggest things I see in game is a lack of understanding about just who are the Klingons as a people?
What makes them tick? ... Who are they?
This thread is for Klingon players (and fans of Klingons) to talk about who they are as a people.
My hope is that it will help foster understanding of the culture behind these great people as well as help us flesh out our Klingon persona for game play.
Let me begin by saying that I am currently reading "The Klingon Way" and want to quote the following from its back cover:
Also, sharing quotes and other bits and pieces you find as examples from books, shows, and other sources is encouraged.
So let us begin as .... "We are KLINGONS!"
My one real request is that we remain on topic, not use this as a stage to champion Klingon content or to begin a cultural war.
Ie. ... Please speak with honor and respect at all times.
What makes them tick? ... Who are they?
This thread is for Klingon players (and fans of Klingons) to talk about who they are as a people.
My hope is that it will help foster understanding of the culture behind these great people as well as help us flesh out our Klingon persona for game play.
Let me begin by saying that I am currently reading "The Klingon Way" and want to quote the following from its back cover:
"For many years, Klingons have been the premier warriors in the galaxy. Regarded across known space with fear and awe, few beings understand the true depth and greatness of the Klingon Empire."
Also, sharing quotes and other bits and pieces you find as examples from books, shows, and other sources is encouraged.
So let us begin as .... "We are KLINGONS!"
My one real request is that we remain on topic, not use this as a stage to champion Klingon content or to begin a cultural war.
Ie. ... Please speak with honor and respect at all times.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I have for one reason or another identified with Klingons for some time now ... not so much as they were originally created so much as how they evolved over the latter Star Trek series.
They because a race that in its origins (as far as story goes) were originally driven towards walking their path through life without fear in as honorable a fashion as possible.
For me ... Whenever I think of Klingons, I think of the Vikings and Celts.
I think of the earlier tribes of Europe and lets face it ... many of us of European heritage are descended from tribes who walked a warrior's path.
But just because you are a warrior does not mean you have to walk a path of simple death and destruction.
For the Klingon people, honor *was* and *is* a way of life.
It is so much more than a word spoken and easily forgotten as they lived it even as they walked the good road with firm steps that were strengthened by spirit and heart.
If you followed the Star Trek series (especially The Next Generation and Deep Space 9) you are familiar with the character Worf -- a Klingon orphan who was raised by humans and joined Starfleet.
He held within his heart an image of what a true Klingon warrior should be and he held himself to that standard ... walking a path in story that tried to honor that standard.
What I see the Klingons as being are a race where many of their kind had stepped away from the path and become somewhat lost for a time --- one of the reasons I see the Empire as being divided and something supported by the Klingon fiction books I've read.
Also a reason the cloned Emperor Kahless was created.
If they find their way back to the path of honor, they are more in balance with all that surrounds them.
I ask because we had a different discussion a few months back where we used the IKS Gorkon novels and also some comics as important sources.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=190700
I recommend this thread be closed and people continue discussions there to keep it from getting fragmented.
Thanks to Mister Dee for pointing me in the right direction.
Why are Klingons so aggressive?
- Because it is in their nature.
Are all Klingons living by their code of honor?
- Yes, but the interpretation is a 3 bladed sword. "The truth, the reality, and the personal interpretation. So, don't be shocked, when a Klingon stabs you from behind.
Are those the good guys? / Have they good intentions?
- Yes. Mostly. In their major agenda is to control and defend their reign. The problem with this is, there is no real definition in that. Klingons see almost everything as their reign. And they mostly act very extreme in any kind.
What's the problem then with this?
- Klingons do what they think it's right and not reason or think it trough. If they are not welcomed, they'll "help" anyway if you want it or not.
Why do Klingons and Federation hardly come along?
- There are some major displaces. First the diplomacy of the Federation, where Klingons are treated like humans. "Let's talk!" it's almost an insult if the sides aren't cleared out for the Klingons. Second, both factions are expandatoryal. The Federation did it by collaboration and unity, the Klingons by force and subjugation. Sadly both systems seem to work.
Why do Klingons got often along with the Federation?
- They are raging mad men, but they are at some point reasonable. As long as the Federation is helping them, or they have "better things" to do, they see no reason to fight the Federation.
Why do the Klingons fight the Federation?
- There are some major reasons. First it is the next bigger neighbor faction. That is mostly even enough. Second, the Federation is always being so awful selfless, and Klingons think the Fed do this to get control over other races. Third, Klingons are proud, and the Federation helped the Klingon Empire so often by now, they are simply jealous (Klingons are pretty jealous, no reason to deny it. It is part of their heritage and nature. To be the best, you have to have someone to fight, someone to be jealous at.)
I hope this could be understandable, reasonable thoughts and not be seen as a try to show my antipathy against the Klingons. ...Really I don't like them, and I don't make a big deal about it. But never the less I understand them.
Hopefully Klingon players will at least think about my theories about the Klingons and would see more of a Klingons as the glorified Worf Klingon. Sadly there are very, very few Klingons who think that way. Being a Klingon is really complex. They are not only space bullies and warmongers. To play or to fight one (inplay) it is important to know this.
Better not do that, you know how the MODS feel about resurrecting old threads....:)
I'd rather propose to carry over important data from that thread over here.
I can't win for losing .... Oh well ... Let the discussions continue!!!!
I respect your comments but have to disagree on most of your points.
Klingons are from a warrior culture ... and they are passionate.
For how many years were the American Indians viewed as savages? ...Truth is that outsiders misjudged them and never really got to know them as a people ... got to know them as a culture.
Klingons are much the same and can be just as misunderstood.
Klingons are also a fictional race whose culture has been embraced by a number of people in the real world .... After all, how many fictional races have inspired their own languages? ,,, There own martial arts styles?
Their own literature?
Some traits I find most prominent in Klingon society are:
honor, dignity, personal responsibility to ones house and family, strength, pursuit of challenges, passion, pride, brave...
Now just as with any society, there are variations and exceptions. Not every Klingon is as Rigid or Stoic as Worf, nor is every Klingon as deceitful and power hungry as the Duras Sisters. Klingons have a varied and wide range of emotions and personas.
Personally when I think of a 'Klingons' Klingon... I find Martok to be everything a Klingon SHOULD be. Worf is a great example too, but he has spent too much time with the HU-mans... forcing him to restrain his passionate warrior self for too long.
When I play as a Klingon, I try to embody the 'ideal' Klingon... although that doesn't mean I am not tempted to dabble in a little more 'Chang-ish' pursuits. Quoting Shakespear in it's original Klingon as I soar headlong into battle!!!
Not to play the devils advocate here but...
Just in LotR lore... your talking Dwarves and Elves have their own complete language, poetry, and if you count rediculous archery skills a martial art... then there you have it! LOL
...But you are right. Klingons do seem to be the MOST recognized sci-fi people. Even my wife (Who has NEVER watched an episode of Startrek) once said to me "Q'pla".
I said "Wha...?"
She said, "That's what Klingons say... right? 'Q'pla'?"
I said "Uhh... yeah, how did you know that?"
She said "Doesn't -everyone- know that?"
LOL
Watch Star Trek Klingon: it's on you tube.
Learn tlhIngan Hol , (The Klingon language) It's hard but fun.
At least get the Klingon/english dictionary by Mark Okrand ,
Seek us out at Star Trek Conventions, Those of us that dress up as Klingons for such events.
I am a member of the fan club (Klingon Assault Group)
See the Play (if your in the midwest) A Klingon Christmas Carol.
Visit the website Klingonspace. I have picture of myself in costume there as do many other Klingon
Fans.
As members of KAG we follow the Klingon Honor Code.
Marok Lt General
Commanding IKS Khitomer
Member of the Klingon Assault Group IKV Emperor's Hand
Above all have fun learning about us!!
Qapla Batlh Je ( Success and Honor)
THIS ... is what I'm talking about!
To learn about Klingons, you have to look at those of us in the real world that are inspired by them.
You look at groups like mentioned above and need to include them as they are breathing air into the lungs of the Klingon Empire.
Keep her and do not let her go, ever.
My wife (though I love her deeply) has no clue as to anything Star Trek, KDF or the like and merely puts up with my idiosyncracies.
As to why I'm drawn and have been drawn to the Klingons as my favorite ST species...
They are warriors and follow a code of honor that, like bushido, is a good philosphy for a warrior and thier lifestyle.
I enjoy the gregariuos thirst for life that Klingons possess. Nothing is every small or unimportant, everything is for honor and glory and the furthering of the Empire and one's house name.
Quick to offend and be enemies, slow to let go of those friends or enemies that have earned thier respect.
Steadfast in thier leaping into harms way to face the challenge.
Life to the fullest on the battlefield, wine , songs and celebration afterwards.
Tis a good thing to be born a tlhIngan.
My Prime KDF toon though is different. Having been liberated from the Borg, his psyche has never recovered, leaving him somewhat more and less of a Klingon.
The Klingons have a total different life codex. They are a little bit of Vikings, a little bit of Samurai, a little bit of Cazacks, etc. But no part of it would let remember of American Natives. I see, yo get me totally wrong, and I am really sad about his. I do not see the Klingons as rednecks in space. Neither do I see them as savages. The problem I so often saw by fans of them was, the Klingons were always compared to the humans. Well, they're not!
I don't make this mistake. For me every alien race in Star Trek has different behavior patterns wich defines them somehow. The Klingons have the most complex, because they were fleshed out. Learning all of this definitions the only thing that remain to say is, at the bottom line they don't act like humans, and mostly they don't want to, because it feels unnatural for them behaving so.
Actually this last sentence works for the humans as well. We have the same problems to act properly with our own pets. A dog is a dog, and a cat is a cat, they don't act like humans, still we handle them like humans. You see, this is exaclty what the Klingon fans are doing here. They don't discuss about how would a Klingon be and act, but how would the fans act as a Klingon.
Edit:
To not beeing get wrong, here my reasons why I don't like the Klingons. If it is not written here, then I see no reason do dislike them for this.
- Klingons are always agressive.
- They fire first and ask later.
- They are extreme, destroying whole colonies or killing the own crew is "normal" for them.
- They are bullies.
- They know all best.
- They force their code of conduct and opinion to anyone.
As having very liberal alignment it is for me absolutely unpleasant to play as a Klingon in any kind.Despite this, I am glad, that there are a lot of fans, who made this fictonal race so complex. The first thing anybody thinks when Star Trek is been called out, there are the Klingons. Choosing them as the other faction in STO was the right choice for many reasons.
I like fighting the Kingons for this race have the most opposite alignment as mine, espacially while roleplaying. For me it is a major task to know my "enemy" as best as possible. And it is important for me beeing as objective as possible. That is why I am interesting in the Klingons!
Posting all my thoughts here, I thought it would help the Klingon fans to see beyond the fanbase.
Its not just a physical change as according to some lore the "glands" also boost a Klingons thinking in times of stress as well. Is there any other way?
They most certainly are extreme in attitude, but they don't kill indiscrimiately or without purpose. While the other races do not always agree with the purpose in question, such is a racial/social difference of the Klingons and other races.
No more so than any Human can be.
Klingons are boastful, gregarius, loud, very physical and a lot of fun and I've found them no different than a lot of personalities that I have met among the RL armed forces.
No more or less than the Humans know it all.
Klingons just seem more outspoken in their assertions of what they believe and know.
We merely have a different code than what teh Federation and Star Fleet force upon those whom disagree with them and a different way of making those we encounter see our reason.
And you ask a liberal why those people are the dedicated enemies?
All you describe is attributed to the human species at one point or another through history, and more often as individuals.
The natural behavior of a human is as simple as the natural behavior of any intelligent species.
Food - Shelter- Procreation
Add in a civilized format and larger than family sized social grouping and you get all the good and the bad as those survival skills are now expressed over a limited set of parameters.
Food- Work for it or die. Die or steal it, DIe or kill for it. The first is socially acceptable, the last two are not within a society.
Shelter and Procreation all fall to similiar guidlines when a society is involved.
As to racial motivations, they all differ.
Our way is not the federation way which is not the Romulan way which is not the Cardassian way which is not the Reman way which is not the Breen way, etc etc.
The only difference lies in interpetting which ways are right and which are wrong. Interpetation is biased due to one's racial outlook. So the feds way is not the KDF way but that doesn't mean the KDf way is not just as valid- merely a different path.
Why are Klingons so aggressive?
- YOU try eating dinner that is trying to run away constantly...see how that affects your disposition !
Are all Klingons living by their code of honor?
- Yes. But any conversations about it can only end in a gunshot. Or a knife in the chest.
Are those the good guys? / Have they good intentions?
- UUmmmmm can you define "good" please ?
What's the problem then with this?
- Klingons don't have a problem. Least wise one that cannot be solved through disruptors, explosives or a bat'leth. Or all three, on a good day.
Why do Klingons and Federation hardly come along?
- It's the ol' "Ridgeheads vs. Pink Skin" thing....been that way for ages. Some Klingon ship probably was playing the space version Klingon tiddly-winks with disruptor cannons, and some Fed ship got all upset....
Why do Klingons got often along with the Federation?
- Sometimes the more explosive toys you have...the better the party. Besides, if you kill ALL of your enemny - THEN what ??!!
Why do the Klingons fight the Federation?
- Simple. They can. And the Federation was handy at the moment. Sheezzz...why make it complicated ?
"Who are they not?", well at last I'm sure about one thing: They are not Orks in starship, as much as Crytic tries to sell them that way in STO.
But what they really ARE is hard to tell, because they seemed always to be the way the plot needet them to be.
In TOS they were simply "the bad guys".
In TMP they looked liked animals and didnt say much at all.
So the later Klingons? They still changed here and then... I personally liked them most in Star Trek 6. There they were people with another tradition but civilised and reasonable after all.
During the TNG-era we learned the most about Klingons through Worf; but I often have the impression Worf was kind of the "Ideal"-Klingon. He was raised by humans and it seems that he has learned the most about Klingons through books. So he took the "good" meaning and interpretations for himself...
The real Klingons we met in a lot of cases were very diffrent. "Honor" was just a reason to become violent. If a Klingon wantet a fight he simply felt that his honor was insultet by the existence of the other one, just remember "the way of the warrior", or the whole 4th ds9 season.
And if not, honorless acts were simply covered by lies, just look how Duras was "protectet" by Kem'pec and Worf was dishonored. Still they are no Space-Orks, like in STO, those do not need reasons to fight or feel need to "pretend" to have honor.
Still the TNG-Klingons were hypocrites.
Still, the original intentions, the "klingon" way Worf, Gorkon or Kor showed, that had something Nobel. I would have loved to see more of THOSE klingons.
Slightly off topic, have you actually gone out drinking in Japan? They way they put away Sake, it is a wonder how they are even able to still stand by the end of the night. Likewise, the Klingons also like their drink, namely bloodwine. I have to disagree with your assesment. The difference between the perception of Samurai and Klingons as far as intoxcation is that the Klingons don't care if others see them wasted. The Japanese are all about how one is seen. If they are likely to loose face while intoxicated, they will not drink in public, only in private amoung close friends and family.
Its not just a Klingon thing or only assigned to them as a characteristic.
The federation has been hypocritical in action several times.
1) Klingons are first and foremost, territorial to the point of beligerence; and rightly so. Their homeworld is hostile and very likely will kill those not ready to fight for the honor of survival.
2) They see life as a constant struggle for survival, and in that struggle comes the epiphany that a warrior must be disciplined in order to become the greatest, and therefore, most likely to survive.
3) In order to support their warmachine, which gives their warriors the test of survival and the discipline they need, the Empire must expand and exploit new resources.
4) The Klingons in their expansion to obtain new resources are pitted against the elements, non-sapient, and sapient enemies, as well as other civilizations.
5) To take a world or other resource occupied by another, the Klingons tend to give fair warning. This allows cowards to flee, or warriors to stand and fight to the death.
(This is where the destruction of colonies comes into play.)
6)If the occupant does not vacate, they consent to war. Therefore, the killing and pillaging of a colony is still within the bounds of honor and discipline.
btw: great thread, makes good impression about the faction and its player base.
I can see this and feel it hits very close to the mark.
They have the honor of the Samurai but the brutal force of the vikings.
I think we can agree that either description, they are stuck in the past as far as individual rights and equal representation.
If might makes right, and it does, then the ruling class has to be military. Other classes (i.e.: teachers, artist, engineers, doctors) would belong to the individual houses. Their rulers would determine the interaction of these classes based on favor by the council, slowing their advance in these areas. This is evident in the ships they fly being based on upgrades to existing models instead of new technology across the board.
The most noticable trait I see in the Empire is that everything seems to be a scavanger/opportunity based society. Sort of a "keep what you kill" or "smash and grab" establishment. With everyone focused on the wealth and prosperity of the single House, there is little chance for the quality of life to improve in the lower levels within the Empire. You basically inherit the job of your father to the house that he served, to the overall glory of the Empire.
The Empire went to war with the Federation when the Federation would not stand behind the Empire's invasion of the Gorn Hegemony. Accepted. I just simply think that the Federation did not fully anticipate the reaction of the Empire declaring war against them and aligning with as many races as they did to increase their strength so they as formidable an enemy as they have become in 2409. Folly on the Federation's lack of vision. Now they will just have to continue fighting the aggresstion on multiple fronts.
Having stated this, it is easy to understand why the message from leaders like General Worf, Emperor Kah'less, and Dahar Master Kor would fall on deaf ears, even as the leaders pine for the "old ways."
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Aye, the Feudal period of Japanese history comes the closest to describing the warrior culture of the Klingon people. I think I even remember watching the special documentaries on one of the TOS movies stating that their aim for the redesign of the Klingon people was to model them after the feudl Japanese culture. This is at least in reference to their code of honor and their attitude toward honorable combat. Correct me if I am wrong here.
I just consider the Klingons to be 25th century Space Samurai....