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An open letter to the collective group of forum posters

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
In the last few days I've spent several hours reading the forums and noticing a trend that I'm hoping we, as a collective group can alter so as to not lose a precious commodity we have with Cryptic.

We as a group have stopped listening when we don't get what we want from them. We, as a group need to stop.

When they say they can't do something and give us legitimate valid reasons, we, as a group need to understand that we're not privy to everything they know do or posses and take that answer.

If they say for technical reasons they can't do something, then without giving up the house give us as good of an answer as they can, we need to understand and work with it; This doesn't prevent anyone from saying ok, its hard, but if we over here can do this, could it help?

Cryptic has proven they'll work with us if they can; a prime example is Zero, whose been blazing through the Foundry forums like a comet trying to fix things for us. So when we get our answer, even if we don't like it, we need to suck it up and move on. If we don't we risk losing the one thing Cryptic has with us, which is a fairly good relationship of communication and coordination. No, its not perfect as some things seem to take more work than it should, but none the less, we still get to talk to them about a lot of topics that matter to us and have them listen, and even implement things we ask for.

We as a forum group, are the small minority of players who get vocal about a great multitude of things in many ways, some of us are well spoken, some are not, but all of us get to enjoy one thing that most folks don't in the gaming world; communication with the development team that in some cases is on a personal face to face level via interviews et al. We as a group need to guard the privilege as well as excersize it. Lets all remember that we have something in common that no one of us should push to the point of losing it. We're also a fairly smart group who can reason out when that point is.

No, means No, but that doesn't stop you from asking if you can help in a certain way, I'm willing to put a steak dinner on the fact that if you present a possible solution or enhancement to the game that Dstahl likes you'll be talked with, if for nothing more than your input on the item.

I've used We in this whole post to include myself as well as the rest of the community, not to single any one out, but as to invest all of us in the protection of the great thing we have, open lines of communications, that make an impact on the game we all share in common.

I'm sure none of us would want to lose what we have here with Dan and the crew and we should work do not do so.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Good intentions, but I think the idea will be lost on quite a few of "us" here in the forums. :)

    I just read through a posting regarding a pic of shuttle interiors in development. Two thirds of the replies made a comment about the sizing of the interior even though the sizing fits in line with the rest of the interiors in STO.

    Again, I think you have the best of intentions, but I seriously doubt that "we" will all take it to heart in our future postings in the forums. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Let's be honest though: it's kind of Zero's job to listen to our feedback regarding Foundry.

    As for the forum community, you will always have people who don't understand the limitations of computer programming and ask for the moon in regards to content or features. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because a great deal of things I never expected to be incorporated into STO are coming into the game (dynamic pvp, cover system, and more.)

    Sometimes being ignorant of programming can help spur on creativity in the gaming industry
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I should point out that things like Saucer Seperation and MVAM in the beginning was not possible and not going to happen.
    But the Community kept pushing for it, and because of that Cryptic made the effort to make it possible.

    Same thing for the Intrepids armor, in the beginning it was just a flat texture animation, but because and only because the community really pushed and screamed for full 3D armor, we ended up getting it.

    Yes some things really cannot be done and sometimes people do go too far, but if we simply accepted No as No all the time, then this game would not be what we have today.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines and Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy ~WishStone
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    I should point out that things like Saucer Seperation and MVAM in the beginning was not possible and not going to happen.
    But the Community kept pushing for it, and because of that Cryptic made the effort to make it possible.

    Same thing for the Intrepids armor, in the beginning it was just a flat texture animation, but because and only because the community really pushed and screamed for full 3D armor, we ended up getting it.

    Yes some things really cannot be done and sometimes people do go too far, but if we simply accepted No as No all the time, then this game would not be what we have today.

    Agreed. Just accepting No will not help the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ive noticed that the devs show no interest in anything space combat balance or proposed changes anymore, i hope that is because they are mostly focused on getting the ground update done, or getting the foundry perfect.

    if you have any ideas for space or want to complain about something space related don't bother, until after season 4 anyway. i really wish they would say something like this, saying we arnt going to do anything relating to that right now is a lot better then silence.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I agree with the op on some points, it's not the "demands" towards the devs that's the problem, it's the way some of these demands come across.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If anything, I'd say the devs have been too forthcoming.

    At the moment it seems they are being held morally culpable every time they break wind. With constant and repeated demands for accountability on a daily basis. Let alone the nigh constant PR work that the devs are doing on the various podcasts and websites.

    Maybe if we had a few weeks where the devs were allowed to concentrate on their work instead of placating the mewling masses, we'd see some progress.

    Otherwise, things are just going to get uglier.

    They're good devs. Probably some of the most hard-working in the industry. Let them do their job.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Kyuui wrote: »

    Cryptic has proven they'll work with us if they can; a prime example is Zero, whose been blazing through the Foundry forums like a comet trying to fix things for us. So when we get our answer, even if we don't like it, we need to suck it up and move on. If we don't we risk losing the one thing Cryptic has with us, which is a fairly good relationship of communication and coordination. No, its not perfect as some things seem to take more work than it should, but none the less, we still get to talk to them about a lot of topics that matter to us and have them listen, and even implement things we ask for..

    I think this is only the case because they are counting on the Foundry being the major means of new content entering the game. I for one don't think it should be, after all, I am not paying players to make content for a game i PAID for. If this was the case, i may as well go back to MUD's
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If anything, I'd say the devs have been too forthcoming.

    At the moment it seems they are being held morally culpable every time they break wind. With constant and repeated demands for accountability on a daily basis. Let alone the nigh constant PR work that the devs are doing on the various podcasts and websites.
    .

    Less P.R. and more dev time would seem to be the answer to this problem. Call me old fashion or whatever, but more time spent on P.R. by a limited size team only means that many less actually working on content.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Nay, nay I say.

    We are doing our job as valued customers of giving our feedback to the dev's (who are truly miracle workers). Sometimes it gets heated, between us, and us against them. I don't think, though, that its due to any actual animosity towards the dev's or between ourselves.

    .... well, ok, maybe one of you has tweaked me lately, but still..... (joke)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    You know I respect the OP's post and he does have a very valid point

    Only....

    No doesn't always mean no; When the game launched we were given a very technical reason why they could not size Bridges and interiors down to a reasonable scale, the community (many of us who are quite accomplished level designers and 3d modelers in our own right) refused to buy it and pressed,,...now surprise surprise they have been reduced once and are in process of being bought into a non-TRIBBLE state.

    That happened because we the community demanded more, we were not disrespectful, we were not mean...we knew that if anyone could Cryptic could and they did.

    I'm all for respecting what can and cannot be done, but don't ask us to lie down and show our stomaches just because a developer said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Agreed. Just accepting No will not help the game.

    That depends on what the "no" is referring to. Somehow, I do not see Cryptic saying "yes" to adding in Lightsabers or Barbie Fashion Accessories to STO simply because the playerbase asks for it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That depends on what the "no" is referring to. Somehow, I do not see Cryptic saying "yes" to adding in Lightsabers or Barbie Fashion Accessories to STO simply because the playerbase asks for it.

    What will we ever do w/o our authentic STO purse in hot pink?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That depends on what the "no" is referring to. Somehow, I do not see Cryptic saying "yes" to adding in Lightsabers or Barbie Fashion Accessories to STO simply because the playerbase asks for it.

    Obviously within reason.

    When I see people ask for nonsensical things, I'm all for Devs saying no. I am fully aware they should say no to some things.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Kyuui wrote: »
    When they say they can't do something and give us legitimate valid reasons, we, as a group need to understand that we're not privy to everything they know do or posses and take that answer.

    The fact that people have different definitions of "legitimate" and "valid" make this an impossibility. The best advice I can give anyone concerned about the forums is to report any behavior you feel is inappropriate and lets the mods do their jobs. If the behavior is really inappropriate, then it will be dealt with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I do not know about anyone else... But back when I had jobs with constant consumer level interactiion, if a customer got hostile and rude I would remember them, just as I would remember the real nice ones.

    Sometimes some of these previously rude people would come back in and try to be nice or buddy-buddy. I would just treat them neutrally and professionally, but I did not give one hoot as to their opinions or interests, as I remember what a royal jackass they had been before (and would sometimes be again). Fake people are sad.

    For better or for worse we all get reputations from our posts, reputations which may influence another's support or lack there of for a given issue.

    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SP3CTREnyc wrote:
    Let's be honest though: it's kind of Zero's job to listen to our feedback regarding Foundry.

    She only looks at the Bug/Foundry forums, if I recall. That's part of why so many threads get moved. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Asakara wrote:
    I do not know about anyone else... But back when I had jobs with constant consumer level interactiion, if a customer got hostile and rude I would remember them, just as I would remember the real nice ones.

    Sometimes some of these previously rude people would come back in and try to be nice or buddy-buddy. I would just treat them neutrally and professionally, but I did not give one hoot as to their opinions or interests, as I remember what a royal jackass they had been before (and would sometimes be again). Fake people are sad.

    For better or for worse we all get reputations from our posts, reputations which may influence another's support or lack there of for a given issue.

    :)

    Certain members of the Dev team have even been rude and hostile before, and as a result had their posts edited by the mods. So does your "once an TRIBBLE, always an TRIBBLE" logic apply to them as well, or just to members of the community? I have a feeling I already know your answer, and that you only apply your logic selectively.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If anything, I'd say the devs have been too forthcoming.

    At the moment it seems they are being held morally culpable every time they break wind. With constant and repeated demands for accountability on a daily basis. Let alone the nigh constant PR work that the devs are doing on the various podcasts and websites.

    Maybe if we had a few weeks where the devs were allowed to concentrate on their work instead of placating the mewling masses, we'd see some progress.

    Otherwise, things are just going to get uglier.

    They're good devs. Probably some of the most hard-working in the industry. Let them do their job.

    I agree, though i would like to also throw another bone into your position. That CBS is hindering alot of what Cryptic is doing, what they can and cant release and i think from a position CBS is micromanaging them as CBS has done in the past with and when it comes to this franchise.

    I also hope this isn't the issue, however i will state that they are going in multiple directions when it goes to what should be worked on and that is what i have gotten since the 1st anniversary. There has been no clear direction, i think at the moment things are in disarray. What they need to do, is get focused and focus on the larger picture of a long term instead of short term goals which is what we see.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Acidrain wrote: »
    I agree, though i would like to also throw another bone into your position. That CBS is hindering alot of what Cryptic is doing, what they can and cant release and i think from a position CBS is micromanaging them as CBS has done in the past with and when it comes to this franchise.

    I also hope this isn't the issue, however i will state that they are going in multiple directions when it goes to what should be worked on and that is what i have gotten since the 1st anniversary. There has been no clear direction, i think at the moment things are in disarray. What they need to do, is get focused and focus on the larger picture of a long term instead of short term goals which is what we see.

    I think I'd be a lot more concerned if CBS wasn't keeping Cryptic on a leash, because this game would be an even worse hodge podge than it already is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I tend not to have an opinion on the CBS/Cryptic relationship. We aren't there at those board meetings and tele-conferences, so we really don't know how things get decided, mandated, or required.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I think I'd be a lot more concerned if CBS wasn't keeping Cryptic on a leash, because this game would be an even worse hodge podge than it already is.

    As someone who is an older modder of earlier titles of the Star Trek IP, a majority of the problem came from that of CBS and its meddling and while iam only making an opinion i disagree with your opinion that CBS is keeping Cryptic on a leash. If they are micromanaging Cryptic it would explain alot, though we will never know unless someone leaks or says something.
    I tend not to have an opinion on the CBS/Cryptic relationship. We aren't there at those board meetings and tele-conferences, so we really don't know how things get decided, mandated, or required.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the basic ideas of what is and isn't decided or mandated and required or not.
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