It seems there is some code in the program that neuters lower tier ships at level cap way beyond what is necessary. Let me explain:
I am a Vice Admiral and recently I decided I wanted to fly the "golf ball" sci ship (T3, commander level). Flying a T3 ship at level cap means that I have significantly
-less bridge officer abilities
-less console slots
-less hull
than a VA level ship. This is what has to be expected when flying a lower tier's ship. But it doesn't stop there. In addition to these significant and perfectly valid restrictions
the effects of the bridge officer abilities are reduced as well!
Here are some concrete numbers (everything with the same character spec and without consoles):
Hazard Emitter 1 at 125 Aux:
9049 HP / +27 resist on T3 Science
13573 HP / +27 resist on T5 Science
Transfer Shield Strength 2 at 125 Aux:
684 + 3120 shields / 18% resist on T3 Science
1026 + 4680 shields / 18% resist on T5 Science
Emergency Power to Shields 1:
843 shields / +21 power / 18% resist on T3 Science
1264 shields / +21 power / 18% resist on T5 Science
Engineering Team 1:
3013 HP on T3 Science
4519 HP on T5 Science
Procs from Borg set:
+34% HP / 350 + 1650 shields on T3 Science
+52% HP / 525 + 2475 shields on T5 Science
Not only are bridge officer abilities severely reduced in their strength, but even percentage-based heals like the borg procs are lower in a T3 ship than in a T5 ship. Once again, remember that this is the same VA character!
I really hope this is just some weird oversight that abilities' strengths scale with ship tier and not just character level, and not an attempt to set up additional incentives (besides the BO/console/weapon slots) for a possible refit release on the c-store.
Summary:
I want to fly the golf ball science ship at T5 and I'm fine with it being a T3 ship as long as I get access to the normal strength of my BOs' abilities. I think the current artificial restrictions should be removed.
Comments
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Let's put this analogy out there for what is is worth. If you were in the Navy and could serve aboard a WW2 Battleship but then were given or request a destroyer you would notice a significant reduction in power of vessels. Going for the ability to shoot an 18" gun down to a 5" makes a pretty big difference EVEN THOUGH your ability to fire that 18" gun has not gone away. The point is, the SHIP restriicts your ability.
BO abilities are restricted in the same manner. You may be CAPABLE of more on the BO but the ship itself just can not handle it.
I think that the more HP and SHield HP a ship has the higher the heal is going to be. It might be a % but again im not sure.
This is not the case. The values are the same among the T5 escorts/cruisers/sci ships although they have significantly different hull values.
I don't have any skill points for either the T3 or the T5. The +Aux power bonus seems to be the same. I used the same deflectors, and no consoles related to the healing skills.
What I'm trying to say is this: If a tier 3 has less shields than a tier 5, and you boost each by the same percentage, then one will get less hard number shield points, as indicated above. However, if you just have a hard, +XX amount of shields, then the tier 3 is going to have ridiculous healing powers. I mean, if you ran around in a Miranda firing an Engineering Team that can heal 25% of a tier 5 ship's hull, and that Engineering Team did the same healing no matter what, the Miranda would get a WAY huge and disproportionate amount of healing for that power.
I hope I've made sense here.
Edit: I see you replied while I was typing. Alright, it might not be a hard % of the hull HP. BUT, perhaps they just reduce it for each tier. Maybe the reduction is a bit much, but it is necessary, for something like the Miranda example I used above.
I understand this line of thought, but I don't agree with it. True, the self-heal would be quite large percentage-wise, but the damage I take is not scaled to my ship tier, so I still need T5 absolute levels of healing to survive.
And even more important: This reduction renders me useless for healing others.
I think that's why players are encouraged to fly ships that are appropriate to their level. I could be wrong, however.
I agree with this. I would like Cryptic to give everyone more freedom to fly any ship,(with-in their own faction) that they want.
How dare you ask to fly anything but a TNG ship here in TNG Online?
LOL! You were the front-man for the 'no one should be flying ships appropriate to their level' campaign, but instead we should all be flying TNG ships.
Could we have more data? Were you using any consoles? Were any of the BOffs providing space passives? Certain T5 ships get bonuses from using lower-tier skills (that is, a VA science captain flying a DSSV gets some bonus from having the lower-tier science vessel skills in total; could the VA you were testing this with have had those higher-tier science ship skills? Would they even apply?)
I admit I don't have the brain to crunch numbers, but this seems like a very valid concern and worth investigation.
ETA: I'd be reasonably certain that this is not some sort of stealth marketing gimmick to purchase T5 refits on the C-Store. For starters, one does not bury marketing incentives.
ETA2: I think someone already checked that these powers don't operate on hard percentages; is that correct? If that were the case then, yes, each power would indeed give less healing with a lower-tier ship.
No, I was a proponent of raising certain T4 ships to T5 because I believe there was a valid argument for them being on that level of capability. That argument won out. You should let go of your hatred for all things TNG in STO. Post-TNG options are available to all and I don't want them to disappear.
Let it go, man. It's just sad.
The golf ball science ship is from TNG! Okay, All Good Things is an alternate future, but it is TNG nonetheless.
I did not use a bridge officer that gives passive space skills. I do not have points in science vessel skills of any tier. I did not use any consoles that boost HE/TSS/ET or auxillary power levels. I used the same engine/deflector/shield and consoles on each ship (the full Borg set and a field generator).
Thanks for that info! This is indeed an interesting data set. Have to dig more into this.
Hmm. That would be interesting. If it's a general rule, one could try test it out with equipping Tier 4 or Tier 5 weapons and seeing if the skill points spent there do anything.
It could also just affect BO skills (and maybe only healing skills). In that case, one could take Hazard Emitters for example and train out of the skill and see if the resulting values are now the same for Tier 5 and Tier 3 vessels.
I don't think *all* T4 or T5 skills are being ignored, but the T4 and T5 starship skills most certainly are. From everything I've read, the specific starship skills apply a certain amount for *higher* tier ships, but there was nothing saying they'd work for *lower* tier ships.
I had already mentioned that I do not have science ship skills of any tier. And while I have skills for HE/TSS (T4 skills), I do not have any ET skills beyond the T1 "Engineering Team Leader".
Apart from that I don't think that any of the T4/T5 skills give enough of a boost to explain the HE/TSS improvement by almost 50%.
Another hint that the problem is not with ignored T4/T5 skills: my power levels are affected by T5 skills, they do not differ between the T3 and T5 ship.