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SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The following is a reply I got to one of my postings (Apples, Oranges, and other musings) that I wanted to cross-examine and point out some facts to the forum readers.

Originally Posted by MagnumStar
These cheaters mainly cruise the lower lvls preying upon the new comers and I have seen lots of new players quit the game entirely because of this. What needs to be done is come up with a method of detection, actively monitor the PVP matches, and catch those who are cheating. A system of punishment vs number of offenses needs to be worked out and I would go as far as having a “ Wall of Shame” on the STO website and post the names/handles of the offenders caught.

WishStone's Reply
The correct procedure for the player here is to report another player if they feel they are using any form of cheat, hack or exploit. Discussing it on the forums is not allowed - not because of 'hushing up'; but because you want to get rid of someone who cheats and not bait even more people into doing it.
If someone breaks the rules and the GMs have proof (and more on this in a moment), then we do take action. But this does not mean that the moment anyone opens a ticket, the GMs will decent upon them like a wrathful messenger of godly forces.

What may look odd to a player may look fully different to a Customer Support member who indeed has access to much, much more data about the other player than the one who reported them. They can (and will) check in on reported players and will take action - IF they have proof. Without that, we will not bother them. Because they pay us to enjoy their game. Just as the one who reported them did.
Previous experience as a GM showed me that often a reported player is simply very, very, VERY good at what they are doing - such as PvP. Other times a certain combination of items and powers gives them a fully ledgit advantage. And very often you'll find that if you just nicely contact such a player with words along the lines of "Oh WOW, you totally rolled me just now. How'd you do that, that was amazing!!"... you may find that they actually will explain what happened.

You, the other guy of the screen, your fellow posters - YOU ALL are a customer. Naming and Shaming will not happen here. It happens on some communities and Stormshade only recently stated that he is unsure of the actual value of such methods. I stand by him in that matter.

The background on this is several months ago I noticed in pvp some people exhibiting unusual abilities. They had no cooldowns on devices or abilities, able to spam hypos or shield recharges and displayed abilities not associated with their class, tact officers with eng shields, etc. This is also true of Space pvp so these people were virtually a one man army and able to take on the opposing team by themselves and beat them. A team of experienced players! So much for being very, very, Very good. I found the evidence of where and how they were doing it and turned it into the GM's. It's months later and I still see folks in pvp displaying the same abilities. The inattention to this problem was what I was reffering to when I said STO was being hush hush about it and "No Where" did I mention discussing this in a committee on the forums. Also in the real world when you break the rules your name, picture, and past offenses are posted in the newspaper, tv, radio, internet, etc. So naming and shaming does have it's merits and just like in real life we the "paying customers" deserve to know who is "breaking the rules". The problem with reporting and proof is in order to get proof you have to video record the match, depending on internet speed and equipmnet this can be a hassle. All the GM's need is the player and their handle then monitor them. This is all I was asking of them, never mentioned descending on anyone like the wrath of God. Bottom line pvp needs monitored, I "pay" STO to catch the cheaters, it shouldn't be my job to get video or proof. That's your job, it's why I pay a monthly fee. Also if this sacastic and condescending reply is indictive of STO's customer service then they need to get new people to do it.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    As someone who only plays this game for PVP, I have to say that I don't really see cheating. I've seen a number of things that I didn't understand, and I've been frustrated plenty of times, but in the end everything has come down to learning the games mechanics (what counters what).

    Cryptic can't just go around banning everyone who has been accused of cheating at one point or another because the sad fact is most people who go that route don't know what they are talking about. Please describe in a bit more detail what you mean by your examples,
    They had no cooldowns on devices or abilities, able to spam hypos or shield recharges and displayed abilities not associated with their class, tact officers with eng shields, etc.

    How do you know that there was no cool down on their devices or abilities?
    At one point or another, was there even a cool down on hypos and the like? I don't ground but I thought there wasn't (which would suggest it wasn't cheating).
    What skill did a captain use that shouldn't have?
    What "eng shield" was used by the Tact officer?

    I may not have the answers you seek, but I'm sure someone else around here could provide you with the information you need to give you some degree of comfort. This could be a valuable learning experience for you (and others who might be confused by what they see - or think they see).

    On a side note, I actually agree that things are a bit too strict around here. Some folks could use a little naming and if shaming came with it that would be fine. I pop like rocks in PVP, but I'd love to post screen shots of the people who accuse me of speed hacking or being invulnerable, lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If you think someone has cheated report it and let the Devs do their job of catching them.

    To come on the forums and cry "cheaters" merely makes on look inept in the eyes of others and does not help.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If it was on ground PVP, I think we all know what fleet you were talking about, & they were ROFLLame in space. They minmaxed for ground.They have mostly moved on to Rift, so you can relax.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    If you think someone has cheated report it and let the Devs do their job of catching them.

    To come on the forums and cry "cheaters" merely makes on look inept in the eyes of others and does not help.

    Cheaters are there, it jsut isn't acknowledged. Spamming hypos is a dead giveaway. And the fact is no one is looking for these guys, if they were I wouldn't see them as much.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I see dead people:eek:!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SteveHale wrote: »
    As someone who only plays this game for PVP, I have to say that I don't really see cheating. I've seen a number of things that I didn't understand, and I've been frustrated plenty of times, but in the end everything has come down to learning the games mechanics (what counters what).

    Cryptic can't just go around banning everyone who has been accused of cheating at one point or another because the sad fact is most people who go that route don't know what they are talking about. Please describe in a bit more detail what you mean by your examples,


    How do you know that there was no cool down on their devices or abilities?
    At one point or another, was there even a cool down on hypos and the like? I don't ground but I thought there wasn't (which would suggest it wasn't cheating).
    What skill did a captain use that shouldn't have?
    What "eng shield" was used by the Tact officer?

    I may not have the answers you seek, but I'm sure someone else around here could provide you with the information you need to give you some degree of comfort. This could be a valuable learning experience for you (and others who might be confused by what they see - or think they see).

    On a side note, I actually agree that things are a bit too strict around here. Some folks could use a little naming and if shaming came with it that would be fine. I pop like rocks in PVP, but I'd love to post screen shots of the people who accuse me of speed hacking or being invulnerable, lol.

    When you use any device theres a time limit to where you can use it again. The cheaters don't have that cooldown time limit so they can click hypo as many times as they need to heal up. So when you see them heal and heal again a sec later and theyre a tact officer you know something is up. There's an animation involved with the use of devices and some abilities too so if you see this animation 2 secs apart and you know the cooldown is 30 secs its a dead giveaway. This applies to BO abilities too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SteveHale wrote: »
    As someone who only plays this game for PVP, I have to say that I don't really see cheating. I've seen a number of things that I didn't understand, and I've been frustrated plenty of times, but in the end everything has come down to learning the games mechanics (what counters what).

    Cryptic can't just go around banning everyone who has been accused of cheating at one point or another because the sad fact is most people who go that route don't know what they are talking about. Please describe in a bit more detail what you mean by your examples,


    How do you know that there was no cool down on their devices or abilities?
    At one point or another, was there even a cool down on hypos and the like? I don't ground but I thought there wasn't (which would suggest it wasn't cheating).
    What skill did a captain use that shouldn't have?
    What "eng shield" was used by the Tact officer?

    I may not have the answers you seek, but I'm sure someone else around here could provide you with the information you need to give you some degree of comfort. This could be a valuable learning experience for you (and others who might be confused by what they see - or think they see).

    On a side note, I actually agree that things are a bit too strict around here. Some folks could use a little naming and if shaming came with it that would be fine. I pop like rocks in PVP, but I'd love to post screen shots of the people who accuse me of speed hacking or being invulnerable, lol.

    Basically you have to know what to look for and what capabilities each classs has. The easy one to see is the spamming of devices, abilities. Watch the persons health bar you're shooting at, if they heal and a sec later heal again you know something isnt right because as everone knows theres a cooldown on hypos, you can't jsut keep clicking them and heal. There is also usually an animation involved with the use of devices and abilities, if you see this animation used 2 secs apart and you know theres a 30 sec cool down then they are using a cheat. This applies to BO abilities too. In grnd combat if you see a tact officer who has shields that a plasama canon couldnt scratch or recharges with the whole opposing team firing at him and still dont go down then you know something is up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Oh so this is a ground issue which I can't speak too with any authority. I will say again though that I thought there was a time when there was no cool down on using those devices (which was a bad idea, but still not a cheat). Also, there are a few abilities that can be used on other players and some abilities that reset a timer. In space you can use a couple of copies of one ability, like High Yield Torpedo, which has a 30 second global cool down but with two copies ensures you have one version available every 15 seconds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    If you think someone has cheated report it and let the Devs do their job of catching them.

    To come on the forums and cry "cheaters" merely makes on look inept in the eyes of others and does not help.

    The fact is there is cheating in the pvp area of this game. The evidence for this along with many reports filed through tickets has been submitted. Anyone who has ever done pvp, or played FPS know that cheating comes with these forms of play. There's always those people who can't stand to lose. This is a known fact. The only thing I would like STO do is acknowledge the fact there is cheating going on and then do something about it themselves, not have the players look for evidence but they themselves monitor play. The reason this issue continues on is because of the 3 types of people involved.
    1. Those that don't know what's going on.
    2. The sheep, the type of people who just go with the flow and don't make a fuss.
    3. The weasles, those that benefit from inattention to the problem because they are they ones cheating.

    From your comment and lack of questions you seem to fit the 3rd type.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SteveHale wrote: »
    Oh so this is a ground issue which I can't speak too with any authority. I will say again though that I thought there was a time when there was no cool down on using those devices (which was a bad idea, but still not a cheat). Also, there are a few abilities that can be used on other players and some abilities that reset a timer. In space you can use a couple of copies of one ability, like High Yield Torpedo, which has a 30 second global cool down but with two copies ensures you have one version available every 15 seconds.

    its not just ground, ship devices can be spammed too as well as BO abilities. And there are other means of cheating in space I cant go into on the forums to prevent idiots from using them. So i appologize for the lack of detail. Anyway look for any devices or abilities being used rapidly, if you played the game any time at all you know someone can't use a ship shield recharge and use again a sec later. Im talking within a couple secs or less of using device or ability. Once you seee these cheats being used you'll start wondering about some of the other fantastic abilities your opponent has. There's a good chance if theyre using one cheat they are using more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Please do not start new threads about something that is already discussed elsewhere. It is needless clutter. If you wish to continge talking on the topic, please do so in the thread it started in.

    ...unless that thread was previously closed by a moderator. Opening threads on previously closed threads is against the rules. If we close it, we ask the topic to be ended.

    Thank you.
This discussion has been closed.