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SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I had an idea... but I suspect it will be phasered out of the sky in flames.

So... people have mooted the idea of fleet starbases etc. But I was wondering... with all the textures and stuff coming into the Foundry, would it be possible or desirable for us to have colony worlds? Here's where I'm at:
  • I'd love to have my own planet but I think were such a thing it would have to be pretty darn expensive in comparison to the starbases (either atari tokens or credits).

  • I'd restrict the option to Admirals only... it's too high profile for any character lower than that really.

  • I'd have it as a discussable option with Admiral Quinn once you reach a certain level (or wouldn't it be awesome if it was actually the Federation President as a special summons to Earth). Clicking on the link would take you to a store of selectable planets (the different classes reflecting different prices e.g. A, B, C being comparitively cheap whereas an M Class planet would be almost prohibitively expensive to get from "shopping".

  • The idea is simple... it's end game content whereby you have to build the colony up from scratch. You start off escorting a single colony ship with basic supplies. Over time you have to build the colony up with supplies or new features. This wouldn't be restricted to buildings and usable tech.... you'd also have opportunity to terraform the planet gradually. starting from your A, B, C and aiming to slowly build towards M. Various templates would be available to you on the Foundry based on what class planets you have unlocked.

  • As you build the planet up you can propagate it with animal species sehlats/targs etc and different unlocked plants. You can also propagate it with new citizens (a civilian equivalent of the BO seller).

  • Establishing and raising a colony of course would require responsibility and commitment. You should expect to get the odd random mission (especially in the early stages). These would invariably be "Aid the Planet" style missions and also defence missions to repel invaders (at least until you get enough development to install orbital defence platforms and possibly a permanently stationed support fleet).

  • What benefit would you get from them once out there? Well my thoughts on this are that they could be used to produce commodities for sale (commodities should depend on what buildings you have). The planets should be only accessible from the particular exploration clusters and here is the advantage - because they are in the clusters, if someone has an aid the planet mission and is short of these items... by visiting a colony they don't have to leave the cluster to get tooled up... it saves them time but brings you credits. They should come up as a third anomaly option "visit colony". When a player clicks on this and enters a system they arrive at a colony selected by the AI at random. You might get a crud colony that has nothing... or another that only has a few seismic stabilisers. Visitors might have to trade to get the items that are present. Perhaps the colony has i's own preset personality trait from a small list which dictates how it responds to different race or faction captains.

  • Klingon factions should have an extra option "Raid" (they can enter Fed colonies in the clusters and either go on a killing spree or just steal stuff from orbit or by beaming down). The risk here would be that a developed planet with more defence capabilities would be able to take on the klingon ship... and players would only get one opportunity to raid ( a destruction would result in mission fail).

So that's my idea. Ready? Aim... FIRE!:confused::o:eek:
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    What's with the whole desire to have to buy things that some people have.

    Other than that, the Foundry will currently allow the first half of your proposal (plus or minus some specific objects). And you can add or subtract actual tasks as you choose if that's what you want.

    I would suspect that one of the largest author uses of the Foundry will be creating player homeworlds, colonies, systems, etc. With the greatest usability limitation arguably being that you can only have four other players visiting your "place" at one time with you; if that hasn't already or doesn't change.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'd like to see persistent Exploration sectors as part of the Exploration revamp. This colonization idea would be perfect for that. It would make a great new mission type and could tie in well with the Duty Officer System (DOS).

    We need an area of the game that we can actually effect and change. As we complete missions in the sector, colonize planets, make first contact and perform other missions, the general sector will change. It would be nice to have a sort of territory control aspect to the sector along with some transports and warships (like the Defri's sector).

    Your captain might spend one or two level bands in a sector, shaping it based on the types of missions you do and the other races present. We could permanently assign officers from the DOS to various science, defense, or diplomatic missions in the sector. The best part is that they will be on an actual planet that you can fly to, not some random anomaly or unseen line on a mission report.

    Exploration is missing the sense of having an actual purpose. If we have a real sector to explore and move around, it will ground the experience for us. Each sector would be essentially random with randomized races and missions. Some sectors might be experiencing a civil war, others might be littered with ancient artifacts. If we wanted to share our work with others, we could invite them to a team to join us in the sector.

    I had not considered colonization, but think it would be an excellent new mission type for Exploration, especially in light of the new DOS.

    Edit: Note that the persistent Exploration sectors should be instanced and individual to each player. The idea is to make changes that have a real impact on the game world without affecting anyone else's play experience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Thanks for the feedback. i only mentioned it being an expensive commodity because I've heard people talking that way about starbases... and a starbase is bigger than a planet.

    I think adding a facet like this to the exploration side of the game will entertain a different type of player. If you think of how addictive and popular social games are on Facebook, i think you can see how this might work.

    For those who don't like blowing things up, a tour of duty round the exploration clusters visiting other people's crafted worlds and donating or withdrawing consumables for mutual benefit would open up a whole new world (literally).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    *Bumping* my thread as I wanted to see if I could keep the discussion going and see if there is any love out there the whole thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    bumping = big no no

    besides... as awesome an idea as it is... the USS Dalek-Caan says "Exterminate"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i am personally for this idea. i love doing things like that

    i don't see it happening, but i still like the idea
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Own colonies? This is Star Trek, not Warhammer 40k
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Own colonies? This is Star Trek, not Warhammer 40k

    "Owning" is probably the incorrect term but being tasked as part of expeditionary force to protect and facilitate civilian growth in a region sounds very TNG-era Trek - think of it as stewardship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I actually like the idea of manageable colonies but it would require a lot of work to implement something like this as it is essentially building a game within a game whereby only some aspects of both are interconnectable.

    As such im not sure Cryptic would have the time/asset/sresources right now to dedicate to building a game within a game on this scale right now without causing it to affect the development of the existing parts.

    I am a huge fan of the idea though this sort of thing is my kind of thing that I'd quite happily spend time doing when not actively questing and provided they aren't just constant resource pits that force activity to keep them running like outposts in EVE for example as then you end up spending all your time grinding to keep it up and running and not much time at all actually doing the managing and enjoying the fruits of your management.

    Anyway I digres... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I concur with Kittlor. This idea feels very TNG like, which I love. My favorite part of TNG was seeing new starbases and colonies.

    I think that the idea of allowing Klingon players to come and ransack randomly selected colonies is a brilliant idea. Maybe they're could be a PvP element to that?

    A klingon player would have to beam to the planet and disable the colonies' communication relay so they didn't get a transmission out. If they did'nt destroy it in time, a message will be sent to the guardian ship of the colony (AKA the creator's ship) which will then allow the player to transwarp in and protect the colony.

    Some people could argue this is too Eve like, well I disagree. I think it's a very cool idea. Maybe even the primary goal of a civilian archetype?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    It seems like exploration, territory control (and diplomatic influence therein), and colonies would be intertwined.

    It'd make sense to tackle them in that order too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i like the idea for manageable colonies as well. application of occupation type placements could be cool too. like establishing a medical research and botany colony could generate some perk from studying plant life. the term "owning" probably isnt the best term though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Managable colonies could provide an inflow of raw materials which could be used for crafting or for exchange resale. It could also act as a mini EC sink, in that one mechanic could be that you invest EC up to a certain amount and then the raw materials flow out of the colony in a ratio based on your invested EC. Over time this invested currency would deplete as it "buys" raw materials. Additionally to prevent a invest and forget economy you would have to keep doing missions to keep the colony's efficiency up to maximum. Do a set of dailies, and the colony converts EC to raw material at 100%. Skip days and they gather at 90%--80%--70% etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Yeah I meant we as the outside world players as "owners" where of course the in game character itself would merely act as a custodian/benefactor of the settlement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That would be an interesting way to add territorial control. Whoever holds certain zones in that sector can have their fleets build star bases that can be crewed by all those extra boffs. Would be nice to be able to "donate" our extra ships as NPC's for station defense. If you lose the zone you'd have the opposing faction's new star bases right on your doorstep. PvE could work on expanding the colonies and doing normal missions while the stations could be PvP zones with the nice addition of our donated NPCs as a second line of defense. While you held onto the star bases they could be used for trade, crafting, ect. Maybe someday it'll happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Yep, great idea.

    I would love to be a protectorate over a colony, even if you couldn't (for technical reasons) go back there it would drive some of the Doff missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    OK first off... how do we bring this to the attention of the devs?

    One thought I had was that in terms of colony development, this could be introduced on a couple of levels - In game and out of game.

    It's a crude analogy but if you take some of the social game constructs on *cough* Facebook as a business model you could see how it would be mutually beneficial (financially to Cryptic and funwise without the compulsion to pay for participants).

    In the online games on Facebook, your city or your farm or whatever, grows because the buildings/crops there generate in game economic output. However the value of this diminishes over time without either in game visits from players making in game donations to raise the production percentage.

    However these games also allow you to artificially bypass this procedure by purchasing credits to either manually restore production percentage, or buy buildings or promotional slots for their city/farm.

    So if we translated this to STO you could have a situation where patient gamers who are well connected could build there colony up slowly without making any payment transaction... and just rely on the interaction of visiting players.... whilst others who wanted to speed things up could fritter away their cash of their own accord to achieve the same result.

    Each colony should be assigned an in game key... I would suggest Nameofplanet@username. This would enable players to post a copyable link on their in game status, their forum signature or on their fleet roster. You should also be able to favourite them. When you enter the sector space the colony is situated in, You stumble across an anomoly with the text "Visit Colony" a dialogue box pops up asking you to either enter the key of a specific colony you want to go to and click to enter... or click one of two other options "Your colony" "Random colony". Language is crude here because I'm thinking as I go along.

    Then the interactions we spoke of earlier come into play once you are in. Trade, raid, explore.

    Things the colony could produce:

    Foodstuff depending on bars or replication equipment on planet. As a side note perhaps you could have a crafting side game where your colony can produce it's own food items or cocktails based on a concoction of basic raw materials you put together.

    Commodities.... producing these would save trekking back and forth to main sectors to get items from traders so would be useful here.

    Equipment. People who visit you can come to your own personal exchange where you trade colony crafted items.

    Obviously the more developed the colony, the better the output.

    From an exploration pov perhaps before you "get" the colony, you have to discover it by scanning in sector space... a common planet would be a barren lump of rock and an ultra rare purple planet would be an M class.

    The quality of the planet would affect the number or quality of base unit buildings available to you... but you could always upgrade your colony through terraforming and technical development (in game credit purchases of buildings (highly priced but fundable through the funds coming into your colony).

    Just more random thoughts on the topic.

    How would you envisage it working best?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I honestly don't know how to assess the merits of this idea and how they would mesh with the game as it is...however I do like the idea. Minigame maybe? Expansion of Diplo Corps? Perhaps that could be a function of the crew system they're working on?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ithaqua wrote:
    I honestly don't know how to assess the merits of this idea and how they would mesh with the game as it is...however I do like the idea. Minigame maybe? Expansion of Diplo Corps? Perhaps that could be a function of the crew system they're working on?

    Exploration revamp with tie-ins to both the Diplo Corps and Crew System, as well as Territory Control PvP.

    Seriously, connecting all the myriad of activities into something where everyone can contribute to the end-game war effort would be nice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I like this idea. Founding a colony onesself and supplying it with the commodities we already have ingame like provisions, weather control systems, etc would be nice. Eventually, the colony you founded could be the basis for constructing your fleet starbase in orbit.

    The big issue however is that colonies will have to produce something or they won't have any real value in the game. Hell, they could simply produce a steady (but not huge) flow of energy credits, representing planetary commerce and that could work nicely.

    Perhaps once they reached a certain size, colonies would start producing their own commodities depending on their level. Here's a breakdown of STO commodities and the level they belong to.

    Perhaps at the beginning a colony produces nothing, requires a large number of 1st level goods, medium
    number of 2nd level goods and small number of 3rd level goods to grow. Then say it hits level 1. At this stage it can produce level 1 goods. To grow further, it needs a small number of level 1 goods, a large number of level 2 goods and a medium number of level 3 goods to grow to level 2.

    At level 2, the colony would need a medium number of level 1 goods (due to rapid population growth), a small number of level 2 goods, and a large number of level 3 goods. It would be able to produce level 1 and 2 goods at this stage.

    At level 3, the colony would be "maxed out", being able to produce all 3 levels of goods. At this stage it could be large enough to support and supply an orbital starbase.

    To make things interesting, you'd have to specify which commodities your colony produced - you'd be unable to produce all commodities at all levels simultaneously. Perhaps you could choose from four 1st level goods, three 2nd level and two 3rd level goods to produce.

    Planetary resources might also dictate what your colony could produce. For example, to produce warp coils, which are a 3rd level commodity, your planet might need to have a source of mineable gallicite.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I like this idea. Founding a colony onesself and supplying it with the commodities we already have ingame like provisions, weather control systems, etc would be nice. Eventually, the colony you founded could be the basis for constructing your fleet starbase in orbit.

    Because colonies are bigger and in the long run require more commitment to sustain, I always saw this the other way around... but on reflection I also like your line of thinking here.
    The big issue however is that colonies will have to produce something or they won't have any real value in the game. Hell, they could simply produce a steady (but not huge) flow of energy credits, representing planetary commerce and that could work nicely.

    I've always seen the production of credits as a way of slowly building up the finances to fund improvements on the colony and reach the next respective tiers. There is an element of vanity in the concept of colonies... because the more lush looking environments and the more advanced and useful buildings would in some ways be something you'd want to show off like trophies... "look, I've done this much work on the colony and this is what I got as a reward for my efforts". Obviously as you say, it's not... nor should it be totally what the colony is about, otherwise it becomes very dead ended.
    Perhaps once they reached a certain size, colonies would start producing their own commodities depending on their level. Here's a breakdown of STO commodities and the level they belong to.

    Perhaps at the beginning a colony produces nothing, requires a large number of 1st level goods, medium
    number of 2nd level goods and small number of 3rd level goods to grow. Then say it hits level 1. At this stage it can produce level 1 goods. To grow further, it needs a small number of level 1 goods, a large number of level 2 goods and a medium number of level 3 goods to grow to level 2.

    At level 2, the colony would need a medium number of level 1 goods (due to rapid population growth), a small number of level 2 goods, and a large number of level 3 goods. It would be able to produce level 1 and 2 goods at this stage.

    At level 3, the colony would be "maxed out", being able to produce all 3 levels of goods. At this stage it could be large enough to support and supply an orbital starbase.

    To make things interesting, you'd have to specify which commodities your colony produced - you'd be unable to produce all commodities at all levels simultaneously. Perhaps you could choose from four 1st level goods, three 2nd level and two 3rd level goods to produce.

    Planetary resources might also dictate what your colony could produce. For example, to produce warp coils, which are a 3rd level commodity, your planet might need to have a source of mineable gallicite.

    I like the way you've fleshed certain ideas out here. I'll admit while I'm good at ideas, I'm not great at working out execution.

    Things you'd need to develop over time:

    Planet class. By terraforming you raise the amount of buildings your colony can support and the number of inhabitants available (former relates to usefulness.... what it can produce, latter relates to speed of colony output). You also unlock certain species from a "planet catalogue". So when you get to a certain stage you can start to introduce plant life and eventually animals like Sehlats (not as pets... just as vanity for when you or someone else comes and has a look at your planet.

    Why would people come to the planet's surface? Well... trade is one element. Perhaps some of the exploration missions could be set there (Perhaps if some non customisable things are provided on the map that are tied in to existing "scanning" mission types, when people get that particular type of mission and come to your map, they get to do the same mission but they get some different and unique "fluff" to look at it and perhaps pick some goods up at the same time... which would make them seem a little less dull and repetitive. Of course Klingons could have an element Feds don't... they could just come pillaging (on a timer mind... and a restriction on respawns if killed.... it would be unfair if someone invested a lot of time in building a world up only to have it reset to 0 every time a klingon player came along. Though that said... I believe colony defences both space and ground based should be integrated into colony development.... and you shouldn't be able to get beyond a certain level of civilians at early stages, these should be restricted to npc combat groups and duty officers etc.

    I do think in a way it should be for Admirals though... it seems fitting with the rank. The Admiral has more to do then than just command a ship and crew... he/she/it has more responsibility in keeping with their commission.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Gwalchavad wrote: »
    OK first off... how do we bring this to the attention of the devs?

    One thought I had was that in terms of colony development, this could be introduced on a couple of levels - In game and out of game.

    It's a crude analogy but if you take some of the social game constructs on *cough* Facebook as a business model you could see how it would be mutually beneficial (financially to Cryptic and funwise without the compulsion to pay for participants).

    In the online games on Facebook, your city or your farm or whatever, grows because the buildings/crops there generate in game economic output. However the value of this diminishes over time without either in game visits from players making in game donations to raise the production percentage.

    However these games also allow you to artificially bypass this procedure by purchasing credits to either manually restore production percentage, or buy buildings or promotional slots for their city/farm.

    So if we translated this to STO you could have a situation where patient gamers who are well connected could build there colony up slowly without making any payment transaction... and just rely on the interaction of visiting players.... whilst others who wanted to speed things up could fritter away their cash of their own accord to achieve the same result.

    Each colony should be assigned an in game key... I would suggest Nameofplanet@username. This would enable players to post a copyable link on their in game status, their forum signature or on their fleet roster. You should also be able to favourite them. When you enter the sector space the colony is situated in, You stumble across an anomoly with the text "Visit Colony" a dialogue box pops up asking you to either enter the key of a specific colony you want to go to and click to enter... or click one of two other options "Your colony" "Random colony". Language is crude here because I'm thinking as I go along.

    Then the interactions we spoke of earlier come into play once you are in. Trade, raid, explore.

    Things the colony could produce:

    Foodstuff depending on bars or replication equipment on planet. As a side note perhaps you could have a crafting side game where your colony can produce it's own food items or cocktails based on a concoction of basic raw materials you put together.

    Commodities.... producing these would save trekking back and forth to main sectors to get items from traders so would be useful here.

    Equipment. People who visit you can come to your own personal exchange where you trade colony crafted items.

    Obviously the more developed the colony, the better the output.

    From an exploration pov perhaps before you "get" the colony, you have to discover it by scanning in sector space... a common planet would be a barren lump of rock and an ultra rare purple planet would be an M class.

    The quality of the planet would affect the number or quality of base unit buildings available to you... but you could always upgrade your colony through terraforming and technical development (in game credit purchases of buildings (highly priced but fundable through the funds coming into your colony).

    Just more random thoughts on the topic.

    How would you envisage it working best?

    A fun way to tie that Into the exploration system would be to have a huge zone with randomly generated planets. Once someone in the fleet finds a nice planet they could tag it for the fleet's creator making it quasi permanent. If the fleet's leader gives it the ok, it becomes a permanent world for as long as it is maintained. Now you've got the explorers actually exploring, the beginnings of a fleet project, and a massive boost to the in game economy (colonies need upkeep and star bases don't build themselves).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    X01103 wrote: »
    A fun way to tie that Into the exploration system would be to have a huge zone with randomly generated planets. Once someone in the fleet finds a nice planet they could tag it for the fleet's creator making it quasi permanent. If the fleet's leader gives it the ok, it becomes a permanent world for as long as it is maintained. Now you've got the explorers actually exploring, the beginnings of a fleet project, and a massive boost to the in game economy (colonies need upkeep and star bases don't build themselves).

    Are you suggesting it should be tied exclusively to Fleets? I personally find that a bit too restrictive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Gwalchavad wrote: »
    Are you suggesting it should be tied exclusively to Fleets? I personally find that a bit too restrictive.

    If you're going to make them special and a true undertaking they should require a lot of time/material to maintain. I'd also suggest them be tied to fleets because if anyone could claim a planet the new zone, which in my example was a new exploration zone, would become crowded quickly by colonies. The solo players should be hopping between player star bases maintained by fleets not cluttering up the landscape with hundreds of small settlements that disappear in a week. Although, a way to simulate that gameplay for solo players would be to have randomly generated missions at the star base to aid that race in expanding to nearby worlds. So even if you didn't want to be in a fleet you could "carry the banner" for their planet's species.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    My idea gives a way for it not to clutter up sector space. You encounter an anomoly in an exploration cluster and the intital dialogue tab says "visit colony" then when you scan it, this in turn triggers a dialogue box that allows you to select from three options:

    1) The colony the player has responsibility for
    2) A previously favourited colony either from a list or address box such as planetname@userid
    3) Random visit.

    This avoids the clutter situation you raised but it also doesn't make the colony idea restrictive... and personally, the idea of not at all knowing what you are going to get when you warp in... makes it far more interesting and Trek like. you really would be seeking out strange new worlds and boldly going.
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