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Exploring Sol System

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Just reading the march ask cryptic. read to the question about the explorable sol system.
We have created a system map for each planet in the Sol system, and where appropriate we have also added stations and other sites that are expected to be there such as Utopia Planetia at Mars and Jupiter Station at Jupiter. You will have a navigation option that will ask you which planet you want to visit and it will transfer you there.

Somehow I think when people were asking to explore the Sol System they weren't asking for more load screens.



LOADING LOADING LOADING LOADING....sometimes this game feels like it is on the commodore 64


LOAD "Star Trek Online",8,1
Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    naphl wrote: »
    Just reading the march ask cryptic. read to the question about the explorable sol system.



    Somehow I think when people were asking to explore the Sol System they weren't asking for more load screens.



    LOADING LOADING LOADING LOADING....sometimes this game feels like it is on the commodore 64


    LOAD "Star Trek Online",8,1

    Why does there have to be a load screen? Theres already several space maps in game where you can warp to different locations in the same system, without a load screen at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    you could be right, I could be right.


    For Surak's sake I hope you are right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i hope so too. qould be boring just to warp to every single planet to visit ONE site. they should all combine it in ONE sol map, and then make warppoints like in some of the missions. everything else would be terrific and would NOT have the positive aspects the devs expect.

    perhaps theyll find a way to reduce all these loading screens that are already there. it just breaks the feelings of the game. its like having 20 advertising breaks within a 30min series episode ^^. perhaps the loadingsreens could be made somehow that way, that they are representative. eg beaming down could get a nice sreen with a transporterroom. this would lower the scene-breaking effect of loading screens, esp in episodes and missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Wait, what happened?

    All of Sol's in now?:eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    naphl wrote: »
    you could be right, I could be right.


    For Surak's sake I hope you are right.

    Then again, this could depend on the hardware running the STO client locally. I've heard that some players see loading screens when using the turbolift between decks on their ship. I've never seen them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    naphl wrote: »
    Just reading the march ask cryptic. read to the question about the explorable sol system.



    Somehow I think when people were asking to explore the Sol System they weren't asking for more load screens.



    LOADING LOADING LOADING LOADING....sometimes this game feels like it is on the commodore 64


    LOAD "Star Trek Online",8,1

    GOTO 41, 2

    I have no idea what you feds plan on doing 'exploring the sol system'.
    sounds boring
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I still maintain the position that a solar system should be a solar system you can fly around. If you're going to make it a jump to planet thing, then why do we need Sector Space to get anywhere? Just jump to the planet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LotD wrote:
    I still maintain the position that a solar system should be a solar system you can fly around. If you're going to make it a jump to planet thing, then why do we need Sector Space to get anywhere? Just jump to the planet.

    do you plan on not jumping to another planet or solar system?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Hmmm... I'm generally of the position that it would take quite some time for a ship to travel the entire solar system on impulse. There'd be plenty of moments where your ship is simply... traveling, like in sector space. Given that, I'm kind of glad they're talking about doing jump points.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Hmmm... I'm generally of the position that it would take quite some time for a ship to travel the entire solar system on impulse. There'd be plenty of moments where your ship is simply... traveling, like in sector space. Given that, I'm kind of glad they're talking about doing jump points.

    Amendment, "like in sector space ", except more... much, much more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Let's think about this. The map size required to support the whole solar system and make it seem realistic enough would be gigantic.

    It would be larger then Millenium city in CO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well, they could in theory load it the way WoW loads their enviroments, but the trouble is: Why bother? The same people wanting to explore the whole system are the same people who will be upset when they realize that they could have ran a Star Trek Marathon in the time that it takes to do all of that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Well, they could in theory load it the way WoW loads their enviroments, but the trouble is: Why bother? The same people wanting to explore the whole system are the same people who will be upset when they realize that they could have ran a Star Trek Marathon in the time that it takes to do all of that.

    They can't go wow's route. too many variations. And who wants pacman graphics?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Hmmm... I'm generally of the position that it would take quite some time for a ship to travel the entire solar system on impulse. There'd be plenty of moments where your ship is simply... traveling, like in sector space. Given that, I'm kind of glad they're talking about doing jump points.

    Hence why you turn the Full Impulse button (which makes no sense anyway) into a "Warp Speed" button, allowing for rapid in-system transit. It's one of the few things Star Trek: Legacy did right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Staran wrote: »
    They can't go wow's route. too many variations. And who wants pacman graphics?

    point taken! I'm actually all for exploration in a sense, but I'd like it if say you went too far out, say you traveled to the moon, instead of saying that there was something on the scanners, the bridge officer asks you where to set the next course. Depending on that decides whether or not you go to warp or fly on impulse through the system (although, you wouldn't see most of the boring flying part, it would just be a quick load screen and you're to the planet you want to be at.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LotD wrote:
    Hence why you turn the Full Impulse button (which makes no sense anyway) into a "Warp Speed" button, allowing for rapid in-system transit. It's one of the few things Star Trek: Legacy did right.

    yeah, but then you come back to the amount of space it would take up on a server issue. I like the idea, but I don't think it's feasible in this game. A short loading screen or something though, that wouldn't hurt my feelings none.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    yeah, but then you come back to the amount of space it would take up on a server issue. I like the idea, but I don't think it's feasible in this game. A short loading screen or something though, that wouldn't hurt my feelings none.

    Shouldn't take up much space at all. Most of it would be empty. It would be like having a mini-sector space for a given solar system. You can fudge the distances too and nobody will be able to tell.

    More importantly, the game already feels like a bunch of tiny boxes. It would be nice if at least part of the game were contiguous.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LotD wrote:
    Shouldn't take up much space at all. Most of it would be empty. It would be like having a mini-sector space for a given solar system. You can fudge the distances too and nobody will be able to tell.

    More importantly, the game already feels like a bunch of tiny boxes. It would be nice if at least part of the game were contiguous.

    This is something I would like to see. At the Sol system location in Sector Space, you should have two options;

    1) Enter Earth Orbit/Earth Space Dock (for those that want to go straight to Earth/ESD)

    2)Enter Sol System.

    Option 2 would take you to a map similar to sector space but on a smaller scale. You would have the Sun (Sol) in the center and all of the planets in orbit around it (probably appearing stationery so you wouldn't have to chase them down). As you approach each planet, you get a option to visit that planet's orbit (including Earth/ESD).

    This would be good for exploring and visiting the other areas of Sol System, and for players who want to make that dramatic entrance through the solar system before returning to Sol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    RynoHawk wrote:
    This is something I would like to see. At the Sol system location in Sector Space, you should have two options;

    1) Enter Earth Orbit/Earth Space Dock (for those that want to go straight to Earth/ESD)

    2)Enter Sol System.

    Option 2 would take you to a map similar to sector space but on a smaller scale. You would have the Sun (Sol) in the center and all of the planets in orbit around it (probably appearing stationery so you wouldn't have to chase them down). As you approach each planet, you get a option to visit that planet's orbit (including Earth/ESD).

    This would be good for exploring and visiting the other areas of Sol System, and for players who want to make that dramatic entrance through the solar system before returning to Sol.

    I definitely have no problem with people selecting their entry point into the system. It would just be frustrating to have no choice but to go to Earth and then fly to say, Mars. It would be nifty if it were actually like a little solar system representation to mouse over, but just having the list would suffice.

    Once you're inside the system though, it should be a matter of traveling to the planets. Since Full Impulse should always have just been maxing out your throttle, we can just swap that button with the warp speed button. The warp speed button would work just like Legacy's, wherein the ship jumps to a very high rate of speed, has a warp streak effect, and can't turn while at warp. That way people don't have to spend a half hour getting somewhere inside a system unless they really want to.

    If that were still too slow, you could theoretically just add localized transwarp networks that let you hop straight to wherever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    thefrayl wrote: »
    Why does there have to be a load screen? Theres already several space maps in game where you can warp to different locations in the same system, without a load screen at all.

    Technical limitation of the engine I would imagine; and as to the missions that have you warp to different areas on the map - depends on you setup but there is a quick load screen for the transitions. I know DStahl said he didn't want the Sol system in until they could get rid of the laod screens for it, but that tech hurdle may be harder to overcome than originally thought - and peopel DO want the Sol system and they've had the maps since before Zinc left; thuus it might be they're just saying 'TRIBBLE it for now, adding in what they have - and if they can get the game engine to the point where load screens aren't needed, take them out at that time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I wish they could make one big massive instance, where each planet in turn was far enough away from the previous one to look really small, with clickable warp points between them. I know it's not very likely to happen, but it would be nice. I'm just glad they confirmed Utopia Planitia and Jupiter Station. I'm getting really psyched for explorable Sol now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Armsman wrote: »
    Technical limitation of the engine I would imagine; and as to the missions that have you warp to different areas on the map - depends on you setup but there is a quick load screen for the transitions. I know DStahl said he didn't want the Sol system in until they could get rid of the laod screens for it, but that tech hurdle may be harder to overcome than originally thought - and peopel DO want the Sol system and they've had the maps since before Zinc left; thuus it might be they're just saying 'TRIBBLE it for now, adding in what they have - and if they can get the game engine to the point where load screens aren't needed, take them out at that time.

    I don't have much experience with MMOs, but I'm still not sure why this is such a huge technical challenge, especially at the solar system level. Yeah, maybe in Sector Space where they want to re-instance you every so often, but once you're in a solar system instance it should be no problem since there is no reason to be instancing people again until they beam down. It should work like any other game wherein the client determines what the player can "see" and doesn't draw anything else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Also, I hope there is some decent planet scaling for Sol. I'm sure they won't be able to go full scale, as Jupiter is absolutely massive compared to Earth, but I'd like to see a major improvement over what we have now. I'd like to see Sol be a test bed for improved planet scaling throughout the whole game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LotD wrote:
    I don't have much experience with MMOs, but I'm still not sure why this is such a huge technical challenge, especially at the solar system level. Yeah, maybe in Sector Space where they want to re-instance you every so often, but once you're in a solar system instance it should be no problem since there is no reason to be instancing people again until they beam down. It should work like any other game wherein the client determines what the player can "see" and doesn't draw anything else.

    The engine they're using server side wasn't built for STO, they didn't even have the license when it was built, and has certain limitations. With experience, I imagine they're getting more proficient at squeezing it into the mold they're trying to fit it in but some limitations just can't be overcome without a lot of development time/resources.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    They could use cinematics in stead of static screens, example... Coliseum during
    The cut scene with the tel shiar, your ship could have been loading, or a nice cinematic of your ship at warp
    When entering and leaving a system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    pyro1 wrote:
    They could use cinematics in stead of static screens, example... Coliseum during
    The cut scene with the tel shiar, your ship could have been loading, or a nice cinematic of your ship at warp
    When entering and leaving a system.

    They had animated loading screens during closed beta (nice ones too) - the issue was - on lower spec systems the animations stole enough CPU cycles to make zone loading time longer; so they were dumped for the screenshiot type loading screens. And since loading requires a lot of HD access - doing it in conjuction with a cutscene (that also requires a lot of HD access; BOTH functions would suffer badly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Not sure what Cryptic is planning, but I figure we probablly end up something like several missions in game where you can visit different planets without loading a new map.

    For instance, in the demo or in Episode 3-3, where you got a space map and then warp to planetary orbit. But instead we would get an option which planet to warp to.



    Just hope that some of the places will be visitable (someday).

    Mercury - small research station (Shatner Novel)
    Venus - Undergoing Terraforming (DS9)
    Mars - Utopia Plantia and Mars City
    Jupiter - Jupiter Station, Ganymede Colony (TOS and VOY)
    Saturn - Titan Station
    * Jovian Run = Shuttle run between Jupiter Station and Titan Station (TNG).
    Pluto - Pluto Research Base (Medical)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Yeah, I really wish they could get rid of the loading screens. I have a pretty good rig, so the load times are not too long. But they are still there.

    When generating a space scene, it seems as if it would be much less resource intense than rendering a vast landscape, complete with waving grass, trees, clouds, wild life, etc. So it would seem as though we could load in the back ground as WOW does.

    But I am not a tech person so I don't know.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Also, I hope there is some decent planet scaling for Sol. I'm sure they won't be able to go full scale, as Jupiter is absolutely massive compared to Earth, but I'd like to see a major improvement over what we have now. I'd like to see Sol be a test bed for improved planet scaling throughout the whole game.

    Nevermind Jupiter. Think of pulling up close to the sun. :D

    This was a huge disappointment for me when I got the game. The first thing I tried to do was to go check out the other planets and the sun because I was pleased Earth was scaled reasonably large instead of like the tiny planets in Legacy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    It would be disappointing if the Sol systems planets would be spread over several instances.

    The game already feels like "Load Screen Online". We need less load screens and more of a seamless universe. Even DStahl said once that he wants it to be seamless. I hope he still wants that.
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