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Future Puzzles of STO: Avoid basic math.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I don't find basic math fun. First off it's easy. Second off it reminds me of grade school homework. Thirdly I don't feel that it simulates Star Trek at all. Just because it's math doesn't mean it fits. They'd be doing crazy math that's lightyears beyond what we're even capable. Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication and Division don't help me feel like I'm playing a Star Trek game. They make me feel like I'm playing "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" minus several grades (and yes, I am smarter than a 5th grader).


So far the puzzles in STO have been ridiculously easy. The only ones I've had trouble with are... one that was worded really weirdly (grammar oddities shouldn't be part of the puzzle) and another that was just bugged.

We need more universal puzzles and problems. Forgive the examples which have nothing to do with Star Trek but they're examples of FUN puzzle games that are more universal.

1) Zelda puzzles. We could use Zelda-style stuff. It's universal and fun no matter the age and they're not "Are you an idiot? Solve our basic math problem!" things...

2) Voltorb Flip. Yeah, a Pokemon minigame in SoulSilver and HeartGold based off a real game that I don't know the name of. It's technically math but it's fun as heck math (unlike this game).

3) Anything that isn't freakin' basic math or finding a combination which seems to be most of what STO is doing in this regard. Basic math isn't fun. Finding the right combo to the tunes or floor buttons isn't fun. Waiting for clicking a strangely changing button that rotates through text isn't fun.


The puzzles in STO... aren't really fun.

(P.S. Despite the horrible puzzle in the last episode it was still probably my favorite episode due to the arena)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I hated that dumb math problem sequesnce....was the worst part of the mission! :mad:

    It was mad easy and all, but it was just stupid.


    I'd rather have puzzles like the one on drozana over the 1st grade math exam that we got last week :p;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I didn't mind the math puzzle - partly because it was just branching dialogue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    When you had a Math teacher like I did, you're wired to love math or get out of class. So yeah, I felt right at home with the math puzzles. But still, we should have something a bit different. Kind of like the power re-routing puzzle in the Devedian series.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I don't mind basic math, but I agree. It feels like they just wanted to show off the mechanic that allowed us to reorder the numbers more than that they wanted a genuine puzzle.

    I would be in favor of some type of cryptanalysis. Alternate symbols we have to decode without knowing the syntax or sentence structure of the language.

    We could use the symbols they already developed for Dabo and just say they're a language the Ferengi are familiar with but the Federation isn't.

    Say we find clues on cargo scattered about, a symbol on a barrel full of water gives us the word for fluid (or is it "water", or maybe "drink"?) the symbol on a door reveals the word for "door" (or perhaps "portal", "opening", or "entrance"?).

    That kind of thing, a scavenger hunt for clues in order to learn a language in order to hack the system.

    It would be even better if the language worked in a fundamentally different way, like the Tamarians.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Katic wrote: »
    I don't mind basic math, but I agree. It feels like they just wanted to show off the mechanic that allowed us to reorder the numbers more than that they wanted a genuine puzzle.

    I would be in favor of some type of cryptanalysis. Alternate symbols we have to decode without knowing the syntax or sentence structure of the language.

    We could use the symbols they already developed for Dabo and just say they're a language the Ferengi are familiar with but the Federation isn't.

    This reminds me of the DLAB when I took it (The Defense Language Aptitude Battery).

    They give you grammar rules, stacking one on top of another as the test goes along, and you have to remember them in deciphering an entirely fictional language.

    I remember enjoying the test (and did well enough to qualify for linguistics but it was the puzzle, not the score that I enjoyed).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Star Trek 25th Anniversary for the NES had far superior puzzles compared to this... and it's quiet old.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I didn't like the maths. I don't like maths. I've never liked maths. Maths isn't fun.

    I liked running around solving the rest after I'd unlocked the consoles, but having to get my phone out to do the maths and plod through the equasions? Not fun :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Waitwaitwait...people...playing a Star Trek game...complaining about having to do math?

    ...

    THE MIND BOGGLES!!!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Waitwaitwait...people...playing a Star Trek game...complaining about having to do math?

    ...

    THE MIND BOGGLES!!!!!!

    Correction: basic math.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    No Vulcan Science officers were needed to complete the puzzle or math skills, I treated it like a combination lock- rotate, rotate, -click-
    rotate , rotate, rotate -click-
    rotate -click-

    I do however think that there should have been a Klingon solution- rotate -breeep-
    rotate,rotate,rotate -breep-
    grrrr! <draw disruptor> -BOOM!-

    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    first time was great, i even had to pull out a calculator. second time i just kept trying the numbers until they lit green.

    that completely ruined it for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I don't mind puzzles, and I agree the math puzzle might not have been the best choice. However, I don't agree they should be really hard either. For one thing, as a Starfleet or Klingon officer, I would think your training would have you getting through the puzzles fairly well without you having to go back to the Academy to remember how to do them. In other words, They can be simple enough to solve, but maybe there can be a time limit on how quickly you can solve it before you have to start all over, or maybe a consequence if you are unable to solve it in time. On the show, this was usually the case. The problem was the time it would take, not how hard the issue was to resolve. We are supposed to be experts in our field, so making difficult puzzles makes for a tedious gameplay in my opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Correction: basic math.

    MY BOGGLEDNESS IS COMPOUNDED!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I didn't mind the math puzzle - partly because it was just branching dialogue.

    After someone pointed it out in another thread, I noticed it for myself: no matter what complaint a person may have about this game you always disagree. They actually asked you if there was anything the Devs could do that you wouldnt defend, but I dont think you asnwered. I'm curious to know the answer to that question mysef.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Bobborg wrote:
    No Vulcan Science officers were needed to complete the puzzle or math skills, I treated it like a combination lock- rotate, rotate, -click-
    rotate , rotate, rotate -click-
    rotate -click-

    I do however think that there should have been a Klingon solution- rotate -breeep-
    rotate,rotate,rotate -breep-
    grrrr! <draw disruptor> -BOOM!-


    :D

    lmao...this idea i like...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Bobborg wrote:
    No Vulcan Science officers were needed to complete the puzzle or math skills, I treated it like a combination lock- rotate, rotate, -click-
    rotate , rotate, rotate -click-
    rotate -click-

    I do however think that there should have been a Klingon solution- rotate -breeep-
    rotate,rotate,rotate -breep-
    grrrr! <draw disruptor> -BOOM!-

    :D

    I did the same thing. You can solve it that way very quickly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    When I finished high school, I was happy any math I had to do in the future would not have letters, or brackets anymore. Thanks for destroying that dream of mine, Cryptic, thank you... :p

    Seriously though, I really didn't really care about the math puzzle. It's just another puzzle to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    After someone pointed it out in another thread, I noticed it for myself: no matter what complaint a person may have about this game you always disagree. They actually asked you if there was anything the Devs could do that you wouldnt defend, but I dont think you asnwered. I'm curious to know the answer to that question mysef.
    Who said I defended it? I didn't enjoy it and I didn't hate it.

    All I said was I didn't mind it: much like every other banal task in life. I didn't hate or love it enough to care. It was "meh" to me. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. It was forgettable but not because it was bad.

    Also, why are we moving onto attacking forum posters' character instead of discussing ideas? Ad hominem isn't befitting a philosoraptor.

    A person's character has nothing to do with the validity of their arguments: I don't disagree with someone who says 2+2=4, even if they're a reputed liar and cheat. Likewise, let's leave your feelings toward me off the forums and discuss ideas and the game itself.

    That said: didn't like it but didn't hate. I just didn't care about the puzzle enough to feel either way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Who said I defended it? I didn't enjoy it and I didn't hate it.

    All I said was I didn't mind it: much like every other banal task in life. I didn't hate or love it enough to care. It was meh to me. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either.

    Also, why are we moving onto attacking character instead of discussing ideas? Ad hominem isn't befitting a philosoraptor.

    Slow down buddy, I didnt "attack" you at all. If you think what I said has a negative connotation, well that is certainly interesting. But either way it wasnt an "attack" by any stretch of the word. Also, I did not say you were defending this particular subject. I noted that you disagreed with the OP, and then mentioned what someone else said in another thread. Anyway, I am interested in know the answer to the question just out of simple curiosity: is there anything the Devs could do that you would actually disagree with?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    More puzzles involving math and science, please.

    Less ability to just guess my way through them.

    Star Trek is about scientists and the best minds exploring the galaxy.

    Less pew pew. More think think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    More puzzles involving math and science, please.

    Less ability to just guess my way through them.

    Star Trek is about scientists and the best minds exploring the galaxy.

    Less pew pew. More think think.

    +1 for support in this...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    More puzzles involving math and science, please.

    Less ability to just guess my way through them.

    Star Trek is about scientists and the best minds exploring the galaxy.

    Less pew pew. More think think.

    Signed/supported/agreed.

    An AI Diplomacy option would have been cool too. Anything but "click different things til it works".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Slow down buddy, I didnt "attack" you at all. If you think what I said has a negative connotation, well that is certainly interesting. But either way it wasnt an "attack" by any stretch of the word. Also, I did not say you were defending this particular subject. I noted that you disagreed with the OP, and then mentioned what someone else said in another thread. Anyway, I am interested in know the answer to the question just out of simple curiosity: is there anything the Devs could do that you would actually disagree with?
    Yes, I disagree with devs sometimes. There are also times I agree. There are times I feel ambivalent and times I can't comment on a matter because I just don't know.

    I have a half dozen examples of me disagreeing from today, if you need them.

    Again, why are we discussing me and not whether or not everyone liked, hated, or felt ambivalent about the puzzles?

    I used attack but I don't mean violence: I mean you made an assertion without warrant. I've answered that same question a few times before and if you need to answer it go to my profile, search through my comments and you can read the ones that are critical for yourself.

    Again, let's move on from discussing me and discuss the thread: whether you liked, hate, or felt ambivalent toward math puzzles. Whether or not these types of puzzles are a good (or bad) idea is worth discussing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I enjoyed the puzzle. It was basic yes, but if they put advanced trigonometry in there a lot people (At the very least younger players) would not be able to solve the puzzle at all. But that whole station was a fun diversion from the normal shoot n kill, as was the entire mission.

    Side note: It just occurred to me how awesome it would be to have the puzzles and things scale with current difficulty setting...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Martok42 wrote: »
    I enjoyed the puzzle. It was basic yes, but if they put advanced trigonometry in there a lot people (At the very least younger players) would not be able to solve the puzzle at all. But that whole station was a fun diversion from the normal shoot n kill, as was the entire mission.

    Side note: It just occurred to me how awesome it would be to have the puzzles and things scale with current difficulty setting...

    That's a good idea actually: have the puzzles increase in difficulty as you increase the difficulty setting.

    Normal: Basic Math
    Advanced: Algebraic and Nonlinear functions
    Elite: Calculus
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Hey Darren, how'd you get an animated gif working with the Avatars?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I wonder when we'll see those long sought anthropology puzzles too - unless the first contacts were meant to be them?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I made one under 19.5 KB in size and under 100 x 100 pixels.

    There's no rule against animated gif avatars - just rules against filesize. Hope it helps! :)

    Every time I try to put in an animated gif it says specifically "You may not upload animated images."

    My image is below 100x100 pixels and it's like 6kb...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    edit: taken to private channels.

    I like Martok's math difficulty scales idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Again, let's move on from discussing me and discuss the thread: whether you liked, hate, or felt ambivalent toward math puzzles. Whether or not these types of puzzles are a good (or bad) idea is worth discussing.

    I made one under 19.5 KB in size and under 100 x 100 pixels*

    There's no rule against animated gif avatars (though most vBulletin boards tend to restrict it) - just rules against filesize. I discovered that while trying to upload it to Rifts this weekened: their rules are different, despite the forum software being the same.

    Hope it helps! :)

    *this was done in photoshop with a high-res version then applying photo filters to get the hues similar (thus aiding compresion), loading "save for web & device" mode, and tweaking the number of colors, method, and size of the image from there)

    Now that is funny!
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