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Why wasnt exploration the first major system to be revamped?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Exploration is such a huge part of Star Trek, and the current system is obviously pretty lacking. I know they are revamping exploration in a coming update, but I have to wonder why exploration wasnt the first major system to get a revamp? Considering the fact that exploration is both repeatable and scales to your level, a really good exploration system would make a ton of difference in the game's lack of content and end game content. Why was this put off so long?
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Why not, indeed.

    You could also add: Why haven't ship's interiors and crew systems been a top priority as well? The duty roster system looks very, very promising, but it sure took awhile to get around to it. I've also got a bad feeling that once the crew rosters are live, any areas where they are lacking or in need of expansion will have to wait because now things like ground combat need to be addressed. Gives me flashbacks to interiors. Release an incomplete system, move on. Also, the complete lack of any function/customization/purpose for ship's interiors is very disturbing.

    We can't even travel the universe from our bridge. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Because Ground Combat has been broken and horrible since the beginning and needed to be worked on first.

    ...oh wait, they're not getting around to that until July.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Because Ground Combat has been broken and horrible since the beginning and needed to be worked on first.

    ...oh wait, they're not getting around to that until July.

    I have to agree with this without the ground combat we can get the revamped exploration.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's because ground combat is the number one criticism of the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    forresto wrote: »
    It's because ground combat is the number one criticism of the game.

    Not in my opinion.

    I never had a problem with ground combat except for the bugged difficulty slider.

    My main gripe is with space combat and movement.

    You can't really fly any true tactics in space combat due to the restrictions from the devs. I know they told us again and again that we will never get true 3D space combat. It just seems weird now even more since we have shuttles. We can't go straight up or down and we can't roll to take the pressure of our shield.

    It bugs me to this day to corkscrew my ways to anomalies and enemy ships who are above or beneath me.

    They still need to adress this issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's really my fault. I so wanted exploration to be better than it is. Dan is mad at me and so is punishing me by leaving exploration the way it is.

    Sorry for that. I humbly apologize and ask forgiveness.



































    Ok... just kidding. There are so many issues and Dan and the Devs suffer a common fault they want to get it right the first time (not really a fault of course) so they have been working on it but getting it right seems to be taking a while.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Because Ground Combat has been broken and horrible since the beginning and needed to be worked on first.

    ...oh wait, they're not getting around to that until July.

    actually they're getting around to it now. It wont be ready until July.
    Exploration is such a huge part of Star Trek, and the current system is obviously pretty lacking. I know they are revamping exploration in a coming update, but I have to wonder why exploration wasnt the first major system to get a revamp? Considering the fact that exploration is both repeatable and scales to your level, a really good exploration system would make a ton of difference in the game's lack of content and end game content. Why was this put off so long?

    I agree. exploration is my number one problem with STO over all else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ground combat is a basic, fundamental element. No matter what you do (OK except space PVP), you will encounter it.
    Not everyone "explores", but everyone does ground combat.
    When I meet a bugged ground enemy/mob I simply want to quit.
    When I see an "exploration" zone, I just feel underwhelmed, but I don't want to quit outright.

    You can't hope to build anything good with bad fundamentals.

    I'm a bit skeptical thou. Several things marketed as "awesome" in the past turned out to be pos, but I can't see the future and it can just as well turn out to be really good. We will see.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Agreed, and whats more ground combat is the very first thing you encounter in STO, even before Space Combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    As others have said, I agree ground combat > exploration. But the question remains why was THAT even put off so long? Why wasnt that one of the first things addressed after launch instead of waiting over a year?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I don't have any issues with Ground Combat (I must be the only one :p)

    ... I want to ..... E x p l o r e !
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Mr. Fibble desires better ground combat - leave the exploration to the naughty boys who've been naughty :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    As others have said, I agree ground combat > exploration. But the question remains why was THAT even put off so long? Why wasnt that one of the first things addressed after launch instead of waiting over a year?
    The devs focused on content for much of the past year (52+ unique missions is no small feat).

    Ultimately, the game was far shorter on content at the time of launch than it was in demand for ground combat or sector space revisions.
    Exploration is such a huge part of Star Trek, and the current system is obviously pretty lacking. I know they are revamping exploration in a coming update, but I have to wonder why exploration wasnt the first major system to get a revamp? Considering the fact that exploration is both repeatable and scales to your level, a really good exploration system would make a ton of difference in the game's lack of content and end game content. Why was this put off so long?

    It all boils down to biggest bang for the buck.
    • Sector Space affects everyone (and thank goodness for the changes)
    • Ground combat still affects everyone and would regardless of exploration.
    Exploration is already lackluster and, while I'd love many pie--in-the-sky threads I've read (including my own), I'd rather wait for the core interactions surrounding exploration be right first and lots of design discussions to improve and hash-out ideas for making exploration meaningful.

    Ground combat (even if only a minor part) would inevitably be some part of exploration. Sector Space was an eyesore before and didn't feel large at all (it's getting better but tearing down those walls would help).

    Exploration, perhaps unironically, needs a lot of "exploring" first before the devs should spend time and money on changing it. That's not to say the current model is good: it isn't. However, there's a long ways to go (and hopefully open discussion with the community) over how to proceed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    if you saw sector space before season 3.. it was horrible. although i think ground combat should have been first and sector space second, in order to prep for exploration to be 3rd, then pvp probly should be 4th along with klingons
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    As others have said, I agree ground combat > exploration. But the question remains why was THAT even put off so long? Why wasnt that one of the first things addressed after launch instead of waiting over a year?

    Yep, that was the point of my snippy little comment.

    And yes, scrambling to add content was necessary, but that's now content that will have to be retreaded with the ground combat upgrade...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    And yes, scrambling to add content was necessary, but that's now content that will have to be retreaded with the ground combat upgrade...

    ????

    :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ????

    :confused:

    If they alter ground combat through anything other than halfheartedly hacking at the PCs without changing the NPC end, they have to fiddle with the missions. The whole 'delete rather than fix' policy on difficulty-bugged ground explorations suggests that they need to actually fiddle with that manually on an individual basis.

    In general, the entire remastering process is taking place because the content as it is was TRIBBLE together haphazardly with tools that were themselves TRIBBLE together haphazardly*. Substantially altering ground combat will probably punt that up to 'necessity' instead of 'enhancement', and they have a bigger backlog to go through now than before.

    *Devs have repeatedly commented on what a mess the content creation tools were.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If they alter ground combat through anything other than halfheartedly hacking at the PCs without changing the NPC end, they have to fiddle with the missions. The whole 'delete rather than fix' policy on difficulty-bugged ground explorations suggests that they need to actually fiddle with that manually on an individual basis.

    In general, the entire remastering process is taking place because the content as it is was TRIBBLE together haphazardly with tools that were themselves TRIBBLE together haphazardly*. Substantially altering ground combat will probably punt that up to 'necessity' instead of 'enhancement', and they have a bigger backlog to go through now than before.

    *Devs have repeatedly commented on what a mess the content creation tools were.
    Part of the reason for the new featured series was the tweaks they're introducing to mobs: devidian, romulan, etc.

    The remastering isn't going to cover all the missions from launch: just some. The mobs can be updated fairly easily for ones they're not remastering.

    The exploration issue is different from the patrol mission issues: exploration maps were batch generated using a text line editor (hence having to go through them individually to drop a nuke).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Quite frankly I blame all the C Store maniacs


    If the "open jacket" was not so much of an issue or other such trivialities people get so obsessed about, the developers would concentrate more on essential elements of the game. Alas the amount of work required for the cosmetic items is rather limited and brings the most financial return, something that as people have pointed out is Atari's foremost philosophy in business (not that I blame them much about it).

    I would have liked Star Trek to get a more "respectable" treatment but the again I can hardly remember when was the last time anyways fro all the mishaps through the years. From the stupid direction decision on the shows to the craptastic movies and awful management, Treks only real strength will always be the fun love for the Universe and thats that.

    STO will never be as good as our imagination, but none the less it has the tools to give it some semblance to the original vision of Trek. Exploration of the strange new worlds is the moto with which this franchise has been one and the same and I would very much like to see STO make that its primary focus too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    STO will never be as good as our imagination, but none the less it has the tools to give it some semblance to the original vision of Trek. Exploration of the strange new worlds is the moto with which this franchise has been one and the same and I would very much like to see STO make that its primary focus too.
    These elements, if done right:
    • Exploration
    • Diplomacy
    • Territory control
    • Foundry
    could make STO really stand out from the pack. 1, 2, and 4 would definitely increase that Star Trek feel of strange new worlds with new life and new civilization.

    The first two are lackluster, the third isn't even in the design stage, and the fourth is nearing release in march.
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