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THREE melee requests for the future.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Building off the tech we saw in Colosseum, howabout three things:

1) Change bar fights like Treasure Trading Station's bar fight to melee only. The guys in the bar are jerks but not necessarily people we should kill. Bonus points if their bodies don't disappear, similar to the people defeated "on stun setting". I might also suggest this belongs on stealth missions (where phaser fire would draw unwanted attention) or some places where there logically should be a phaser inhibitor in effect.

2) Give us the tool to restrict an area to melee only in The Foundry. My suggestion would be something similar to the "reduced gravity" object we can place that lowers the gravity, map-wide.

3) Look into ways that each class can CHOOSE a melee build.

Tactical is the obvious one and has some built in melee functionality through things like kits.

The question then becomes how you'd incorporate a melee build into Engineering or Science and I think the best examples I can think of are Death Knights and Rogues in Warcraft, who have self-targeted melee weapon improvements.

An science officer might have a way to analyze and improve the structural integrity of their melee weapon through some sort of mass/density adjustment.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Field_density

Imagine a science officer rigging up a "Field Density Amplifier" that causes a melee weapon to hit harder, maybe at the cost of some speed but still a net improvement.

An engineering officer might have a means of rigging up a melee weapon to emit low levels of radiation damage. A "Delta Radiation Infuser". This would cause the weapon to continue to cause a damage over time bleed effect.

In both cases, perhaps the specific skills necessary to handle the improved weapon safely would be class specific from a logical standpoint. (Alternatively, maybe the Engineer should get the "Field Density Amplifier" and the Science should get a poisoned "Veridium Six Weapon Coating" or "Mugato Venom Weapon Coating".


Anyone else have thoughts on these points or requests of your own?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Imagine a science officer rigging up a "Field Density Amplifier" that causes a melee weapon to hit harder, maybe at the cost of some speed but still a net improvement.
    [/COLOR]

    When I think of Science melee innovation, the first thing that comes to mind is a hypospray on a stick.

    It may be nice to have Class specific craftables that could temporarily enhance weapons. Kinda like limited-charge buffs but more appropriate to the genre. Making them class specific would by necessity inspire player interaction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    hmmm the breen electryic shock stick, the klingon dagger and the jemhadar pole with a blade on the end :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    hmmm the breen electryic shock stick, the klingon dagger and the jemhadar pole with a blade on the end :D

    Do Want. Yes Please
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I would actually trade my turrets and fabrications for an engineering melee kit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The only thing I want is a Dak'tagh. (Klingon Dagger.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Personally, I want all of these:

    glavin
    kar'takin
    kuttar
    kligat
    nisroh
    Reptilian knife
    ushaan-tor
    sword (including: Claymore, Cutlass, Gladius, Katana,Rapier, Retractable sword, Sword of Stars, Yan)

    Klingon weapons
    Reman Weapons

    I've bolded the ones I want the most :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    i allways thought it should be like this:

    TAC = better training with weapons period, higher accuracy because of training, but he can't say simsalabim and the weapon makes twice as much damage
    ENG = better knowledge of the tech of the weapon, he can overload it or improve the power cell's but his aiming is just avarage
    SCI = is also a Medic by default so he knows where it hurts the most!

    TAC = + [Accuracy] maybe also a slightly higher fire rate to bring up the DPS a little
    ENG = + [Damage] + [Critical Hit]
    SCI = + [Critical Chance] +[Critical Hit]


    this can be translated to ranged and melee weapons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Z3R0B4NG wrote: »
    i allways thought it should be like this:

    TAC = better training with weapons period, higher accuracy because of training, but he can't say simsalabim and the weapon makes twice as much damage
    ENG = better knowledge of the tech of the weapon, he can overload it or improve the power cell's but his aiming is just avarage
    SCI = is also a Medic by default so he knows where it hurts the most!

    TAC = + [Accuracy] maybe also a slightly higher fire rate to bring up the DPS a little
    ENG = + [Damage] + [Critical Hit]
    SCI = + [Critical Chance] +[Critical Hit]


    this can be translated to ranged and melee weapons.

    T'paal, Spock, Data, Jadzia Dax, and Harry Kim were medics?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I want a bayonet seen here: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bayonet
    The musket is optional, but why not?

    Then I want a lance and full knight outfit with horse and all seen here: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Lance
    Heck, the Romulan uhlans are called uhlans for a reason.

    While we are at apparals, I really dig the helmet seen here: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Pistol
    We alrady have black uniforms and Sam browne belts, that is all we need for an "impression"

    And I want this uniform to compliment my new sword: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_apS4bH6svM0/SwnlpiaPiDI/AAAAAAAABfE/RttB7OaqNZU/s1600/Bread_and_Circuses_206.jpg

    Why do people want to turn this game into yet an other hack and slash RPG adventure game?
    Also, we don't have to have everything put into the game that was seen in Star Trek. The results would be awkward, inappropriate or downrigth stupid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    1) Change bar fights like Treasure Trading Station's bar fight to melee only. The guys in the bar are jerks but not necessarily people we should kill. Bonus points if their bodies don't disappear, similar to the people defeated "on stun setting".

    This doesn't make much sense. You don't think they deserve to die, but you do think we should be allowed to hack them to pieces? The only change needed is to make the bodies stay (so we know they're stunned). Making it melee only is just dumb (and my captain isn't that stupid either)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree with 2 and 3...

    1, not so much.

    They OPEN FIRE ON US. <@_@&gt; WITH GUNS. Do you expect a police officer to try to punch out a guy shooting at him/her? Of course not. Besides, I'm pretty sure being gutted with a large steel implement isn't going to do them any more favors than being vaporized.

    ----

    I do have my own melee request though:


    I love the two swords we got this week - but as you add more; please keep in mind that different swords require different fighting styles. Don't just re-use the animations over and over again - try to make them at least a little realistic. (It doesn't have to be perfect, but effort would be appreciated)

    Also, give me my longsword, rapier and katana <o.<> DO EET.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Cuatela wrote:
    sword (including: Claymore, Cutlass, Gladius, Katana,Rapier, Retractable sword, Sword of Stars, Yan)
    I'm all for more swords as melee weapons, but I think wielding the comet that almost destroyed the Bajoran wormhole is a bit much.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree with the spirit of this thread. The colliseum ground combat portion really seemed like it gave my science officer the shaft. A tactical officer with invested skillpoints would totally reap the rewards of his investments... but without my Medic kit's healing power, my captain sucked.

    I appreciated the novelty of the colliseum, but I only started to get into the ground portion when I dropped the dampening field. For the matter, I loved the lighting on the exterior map and how it played on the scenery and my character.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Pendra37 wrote: »
    Why do people want to turn this game into yet an other hack and slash RPG adventure game?
    Also, we don't have to have everything put into the game that was seen in Star Trek. The results would be awkward, inappropriate or downrigth stupid.

    Because Star Trek was classically more of a brawler than a shooter?

    Sure, some of that was due to budget but I personally see phasers, in my ideal Star Trek game, as a hard to use "I win" button when most of the fighting should be kicking, punching, swords, and grapples.

    Heck, I see Soul Caliber as a better model of Trek combat than Elite Forces or most Trek games are. Trek combat is dancing around in a circle, keeping your back away from the opponent and charging/bodyslamming/headbutting them, maybe with a few well-timed elbow jabs and judo throws.

    Voyager, First Contact, and trench fights in DS9 are the only places you see squads with BFGs. Most of the time, those weapons are too dangerous/attention grabbing to use or completely restricted from use by inhibitor fields.

    Now, I'm willing to concede that enough Trek games have been shooters to accept that playstyle being emphasized here but I'll outright say I think fantasy RPGs are more Trek than Call of Duty is, for my money.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    This doesn't make much sense. You don't think they deserve to die, but you do think we should be allowed to hack them to pieces? The only change needed is to make the bodies stay (so we know they're stunned). Making it melee only is just dumb (and my captain isn't that stupid either)

    You're obviously not hacking them to pieces though, nor did people who usese bladed weapons on the shows generally hack people to pieces. Your grazing them until they're disabled.

    And I think it makes very little sense for the TTS not to have a phaser inhibitor in effect, which you should probably have the Ferengi disable after the barfight or which would be inactive on the decks where B'vat's thugs are holed up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree with 2 and 3...

    1, not so much.

    They OPEN FIRE ON US. <@_@&gt; WITH GUNS. Do you expect a police officer to try to punch out a guy shooting at him/her? Of course not. Besides, I'm pretty sure being gutted with a large steel implement isn't going to do them any more favors than being vaporized.

    I don't disagree. I think their guns shouldn't work either because I think a place like the Treasure Trading Station would (like any sensible hub) have a field in place to disable energy weapons... and it would feel more like a barfight without the energy weapons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Except that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense Leviathan99.

    Have you ever tried wielding a real edged weapon? >.< I have, even if you're good (I'm not), there's only so much precision you can bring to the process, especially with a hacking weapon like the Naussican sword or the Falchion. Both of them are heavy, chopping weapons - the kind of thing designed to remove limbs from bodies*.

    Even a katana, which can be used with some precision, is still going to to leave a heck of a mess in most situations unless the combatants have such a great disparity that the sword is actually superfluous to begin with.

    A rapier you *might* be able to justify it with... maybe. Possibly.

    Even in all of those situations however, even the greatest fighter is at the mercy of physics - if an opponent moves even slightly wrong, then a glancing blow might instead take off an arm or end up buried in their heart. Melee weapons, contrary to comic books, are messy, messy things; and it should always be remembered that more than anything they were built to kill an opponent.

    If you want to fight to disable, a staff, chain (without weights), whip, net, or simply going unarmed all make more sense. Or in Trek, stunning someone with a phaser.

    *edit*

    In regard to them having guns:

    Do remember that the Treasure Trading Station is, for all intents and purposes, Star Trek's Mos Eisley. It's a hive of scum and villainy. Besides, the Ferengi running the place is OK with the life support system being drained by the holo-deck... do you really think he's going to invest Latinum in a dampening field? >.>





    *Or rather, to be good at getting past heavy armor. Falchions are a RL weapon - as seen here. Of course when you're good at getting past steel, you're going to do nasty things to flesh and bone under that steel.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Building off the tech we saw in Colosseum, howabout three things:

    1) Change bar fights like Treasure Trading Station's bar fight to melee only. The guys in the bar are jerks but not necessarily people we should kill. Bonus points if their bodies don't disappear, similar to the people defeated "on stun setting". I might also suggest this belongs on stealth missions (where phaser fire would draw unwanted attention) or some places where there logically should be a phaser inhibitor in effect.

    2) Give us the tool to restrict an area to melee only in The Foundry. My suggestion would be something similar to the "reduced gravity" object we can place that lowers the gravity, map-wide.

    3) Look into ways that each class can CHOOSE a melee build.

    Tactical is the obvious one and has some built in melee functionality through things like kits.

    The question then becomes how you'd incorporate a melee build into Engineering or Science and I think the best examples I can think of are Death Knights and Rogues in Warcraft, who have self-targeted melee weapon improvements.

    An science officer might have a way to analyze and improve the structural integrity of their melee weapon through some sort of mass/density adjustment.

    http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Field_density

    Imagine a science officer rigging up a "Field Density Amplifier" that causes a melee weapon to hit harder, maybe at the cost of some speed but still a net improvement.

    An engineering officer might have a means of rigging up a melee weapon to emit low levels of radiation damage. A "Delta Radiation Infuser". This would cause the weapon to continue to cause a damage over time bleed effect.

    In both cases, perhaps the specific skills necessary to handle the improved weapon safely would be class specific from a logical standpoint. (Alternatively, maybe the Engineer should get the "Field Density Amplifier" and the Science should get a poisoned "Veridium Six Weapon Coating" or "Mugato Venom Weapon Coating".


    Anyone else have thoughts on these points or requests of your own?

    I could not agree more! Also, can I add that for bar fights maybe just a kind of open-handed brawl restriction should be used. No need to chop someone's head off with a sword when you can just punch them once.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Except that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense Leviathan99.

    Have you ever tried wielding a real edged weapon? >.< I have, even if you're good (I'm not), there's only so much precision you can bring to the process, especially with a hacking weapon like the Naussican sword or the Falchion. Both of them are heavy, chopping weapons - the kind of thing designed to remove limbs from bodies*.

    As with space combat, Trekism trumps realism for me. If there's something unrealistic from the shows, I'd want it to be equally unrealistic here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I could not agree more! Also, can I add that for bar fights maybe just a kind of open-handed brawl restriction should be used. No need to chop someone's head off with a sword when you can just punch them once.

    That's actually a fair point. without discounting that it would be SOME work, It's probably not that much harder to simply disable all weapons -- although harder to justify/explain, perhaps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Just thinking back to the movies, I think Soran and Kruge may be the only Trek movie villains (aside from minions) to use ranged weapons and, in both cases, they were defeated without the use of ranged weapons. Almost every fight involved an unarmed officer using their environment, hand weapons, and brawling.

    Can anyone think of a major fight in Trek that was EVER decided with a phaser?

    I can think of fights that were decided by pointing a phaser to get someone to stand down, by shooting an environmental object, etc. I can definitely think of fights that were solved by non-lethal bladed combat.

    I can even think of cases where (extremely rarely) someone pulled a phaser and vaporized/stunned someone but those aren't what I would think of as an engaging, protracted fight.
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