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Replace the Bank with a Cargo Hold.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
To explain the idea in extremely simple terms: It's just access to the Bank, just like at ESD, except aboard your ship, and labelled Cargo Hold for verisimilitude purposes.

Sorry for the bold, just wanted to make sure new people coming into the thread actually knew what I was talking about. I posted the original thread while not quite awake and apparently did a terrible job explaining what I was after. So - hopefully that's more clear.

=========

Original text:


I was just thinking about this: Why do we have a Bank in a game where every character has access to at a starship?

I know that technically that's what the Inventory is, but it really doesn't feel like it at all. It also feels a bit odd going all the way back to ESD or Q'onos to have them hold stuff for me that should, by all rights, fit on my ship without any effort. I will grant that, due to the simplicity* of STO's inventory system, we technically can hold as many full-size Phaser Arrays as we can Type-2 hand phasers... and so admittedly a hold full of the former may strain disbelief a little... but really no more than well... the above example.

Basically the point is: Why not let us have a bank in our interior so instead of going all the way back to space dock, we can just grab stuff from our holds? >.>









*This isn't a bad thing.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Even a small UI change stating that instead of a 'bank' you're accessing Starfleet General Storage would help.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Even a small UI change stating that instead of a 'bank' you're accessing Starfleet General Storage would help.

    Pretty much this, when I first entered the thread, I was expecting it to be about renaming the bank. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    There should be different types of storage:

    Starbase or Starship Storage: Ship Shields, Ship Weapons, Impulse Engines, Deflectors, Consoles, etc. Should be on a sliding scale with the size of the ship (i.e. more room on a Galaxy-R than a Defiant-R). Should also include Shuttle slots.

    Personal Storage: Personal Shields, Armor, Weapons, Food, Anomalies, everything else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    An old idea I had:

    Let us add Cargo Bays to interiors for onboard (extra) storage. Let there be small cargo bays, medium sized ones, and large ones. Let larger ships hold multiple cargo bays.

    Some can be won in missions, some can be bought with merits, and maybe even (GASP) some on the C-Store.

    But not only should this add extra storage for you aboard your ship, but also an extra room you can walk into and see: the Cargo Bay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    That would be a good idea, The problem is that sombody with a small ship will probably argue that its not fair there being forced to have a larger ship to store more stuff.

    While were on the subject though why not have limiited space fore torpedoes, I would really like some more reality when it comes to the amount thats carried, Maybe even have to go an restock for every so often.

    I could also add a new dimension to how you play you can just fly round for months without ever going to a star base as you would be out or supplies and torps
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Even a small UI change stating that instead of a 'bank' you're accessing Starfleet General Storage would help.

    I beleive the phrase you're reaching for is "Starfleet Materiel Supply Command" (sic)

    http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_Materiel_Supply_Command
    http://www.yourprops.com/Starfleet-Materiel-Supply-Command-prop-label-original---screen-used-movie-props-Star-Trek--Voyager--TV---1995--prop-23599.html

    ('ve got one of those brown cargo container stickers).
    sparkyUk wrote:
    That would be a good idea, The problem is that somebody with a small ship will probably argue that its not fair there being forced to have a larger ship to store more stuff.

    As to the idea of a cargo-bay with scaling capacity that you can "upgrade" in the C-STore... I love the idea. Give us a basic "Cargo Bay" (which would really just be a nice room with containers and pods where we could access our "bank" from our ship's interior) and then let us install additional cargo-space (more slots) for a fee at the C-Store. I think we could live with a static, un-scaling "cargo-bay" room.. scaling the capacity is what's important.

    I think we should keep the "bank" terminals at the Starbases as well.. it allows us to use our ship's cargo in conjunction with the ability to buy and sell items from the vendors.
    sparkyUk wrote:
    While were on the subject though why not have limiited space fore torpedoes, I would really like some more reality when it comes to the amount thats carried, Maybe even have to go an restock for every so often.

    I could also add a new dimension to how you play you can just fly round for months without ever going to a star base as you would be out or supplies and torps

    Limited torpedoes was something that they toyed with during beta, and it was determined that much like "walking down to main engineering and banging on the consoles with a wrench or flying back to starbase after every mission to repair damage.. " it simply wasn't "fun" to have a limited number of torpedoes.

    This is, I'm sure, much the same reason why enemies are so difficult to take down. A 2-ship battle in any Star Trek episode or film worth mentioning, generally lasts no more than 3-5* minutes of actual combat.This is because special effects are expensive, and long drawn out battle scenes aren't as interesting as watching the crew mourn their dead.

    *- (most of the "Mutara Nebula" battle in Wrath of Khan is the two captains blustering at each other, and playing hide and seek).

    In the show, torpedoes are a limited commodity, hulls are thin, explosions are grand and devastating, and battles are quick. In STO, for the most part, all there is to the game is "Battles", with a little text and flying from point A to B, tying it all together. The battles have to last, making the hulls harder, the sheilds tougher, and requiring 6 or so torpedoes in every single skirmish. WIth the average grinding mission constituting 3 groups of 3 ships each, that's a rough estimate of 54 torpedoes for one "mission".

    By contrast, Voyager had only 38 torpedoes as of "The Cloud" (Episode 6)... "And no way to replace them after they're gone." and according to some sources, may have managed it's entire series run without actually using ALL of those 38 up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I believe they also ran through this idea before beta, a separate bank and cargo hold. They did decide not to, I cannot remember the reason.

    I think, that we should be able to be self sufficiant such as the enterprise was, in a lot of ways.

    They could communicate by hailing.
    They could heal crew by sickbay.
    They could repaire the ship via an engineering team.
    Power was supplied easily (voyager was outside federation space for 7 years)

    In respect to the cargo hold, well, it held.
    Just as we should be able to lauch shuttles from our ship (which I think they are doing soon), I think that yes we should have a significant space inside the ship for our equipment, and I'm talking about engines, shield generators, weapons, etc. A smaller one for our food, armor, ground weapons, etc.
    Of course a use for our science labs (samples)

    And the bank, well its gone. (except of course for fleet bank)

    I really like this idea, I truly do. of course the social areas are fantastic, but they shouldn't be just there for bank access.

    I like the self-sufficiancy idea, but let me just note here. Major injuries such as cumulative as well as major damage would require a visit to base.

    the game would be more complex, but much more imersive. just my idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    sparkyUk wrote:
    That would be a good idea, The problem is that sombody with a small ship will probably argue that its not fair there being forced to have a larger ship to store more stuff.

    Making the 'cargo bays' a slot like weapons or devices will solve this. It isn't the ship that determines the size of its hold...its the hold.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree with the OP, and actually hope that if/when crafting is added to our ships, Cryptic would also add bank (or cargo bay) access as well. While I certainly won't argue against adding a cargo bay room to our ship interiors, I figured they would just add bank access to the Engineering Lab since I would assume that's where crafting would take place. While they're at it, why not give us mail access in our Captain's Quarters as well?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    IMO, your inventory is your cargo hold. Note how it gets bigger as you rank up and get bigger ships? Or how your character has paper doll slots to represent what they're actually carrying on their person?

    The bank, then, is separate storage (and quartermaster's depot, etc) for things you don't want to/can't carry around with you on the ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The inventory tab is your ship's cargo hold.

    As referenced above in the thread, they tried separating it out further in beta, with part of the inventory screen explicitly being part of the ship's cargo hold. This was more than a little unnecessarily clunky. Also, Escorts, Cruisers, and Science Ships got different cargo capacities, which was generally considered to be an... ill-advised balancing factor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    IMO they'd have to limit what can be stored in an on-board cargo bay. By having a bank on-board your ship, you're basically taking away another reason to go to ESD, turning an MMO into less of an MMO. I think people should be encouraged to go to social areas, by way of only having the banks there, for example, to make it a more 'social' game.

    That's also the reason why I'm against having crafting anywhere other than Memory Alpha.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Streakfury wrote: »
    IMO they'd have to limit what can be stored in an on-board cargo bay. By having a bank on-board your ship, you're basically taking away another reason to go to ESD, turning an MMO into less of an MMO. I think people should be encouraged to go to social areas, by way of only having the banks there, for example, to make it a more 'social' game.

    That's also the reason why I'm against having crafting anywhere other than Memory Alpha.

    Do you start grouping up with random strangers while you're shopping at the grocery store?

    Strongly hubbing the services just causes traffic jams of instance transfers, which has made Sol unusuable and even crashed the game in the past.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ... Also, Escorts, Cruisers, and Science Ships got different cargo capacities, which was generally considered to be an... ill-advised balancing factor.

    Why? As a Defiant-R captain I don't mind if bigger ships have bigger cargo holds and smaller ships have smaller holds. I'm a bit tired of the only difference between ships of the same tier being in combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I was just thinking about this: Why do we have a Bank in a game where every character has access to at a starship?

    I know that technically that's what the Inventory is, but it really doesn't feel like it at all. It also feels a bit odd going all the way back to ESD or Q'onos to have them hold stuff for me that should, by all rights, fit on my ship without any effort. I will grant that, due to the simplicity* of STO's inventory system, we technically can hold as many full-size Phaser Arrays as we can Type-2 hand phasers... and so admittedly a hold full of the former may strain disbelief a little... but really no more than well... the above example.

    Basically the point is: Why not let us have a bank in our interior so instead of going all the way back to space dock, we can just grab stuff from our holds? >.>

    *This isn't a bad thing.

    They actually had this in closed beta - it was unwieldy as when you were on a planet you didn't have access to it on a Planet, and people got confused as they put ground gear in it, beamed down, and then realized they couldn't access said ground gear; so that's when inventory went back to the MMO standard 'personal' and' bank'; and the two were deliniated so there was no further confusion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    MrJ wrote:
    Why? As a Defiant-R captain I don't mind if bigger ships have bigger cargo holds and smaller ships have smaller holds. I'm a bit tired of the only difference between ships of the same tier being in combat.

    And then what would it gain in return?

    If there were actually any substance to the game mechanics other than those relevant to discrete combat encounters, there might be some room for that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Armsman wrote: »
    They actually had this in closed beta - it was unwieldy as when you were on a planet you didn't have access to it on a Planet, and people got confused as they put ground gear in it, beamed down, and then realized they couldn't access said ground gear; so that's when inventory went back to the MMO standard 'personal' and' bank'; and the two were deliniated so there was no further confusion.

    Really? I have a memory back from Beta of going 'aw TRIBBLE, that's up on my ship, so I can't stick it on - oh, wait, nevermind.' From what I recall the divisions basically just took up more screen space but everything was always accessible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    This thread is full of win.. I want my Galaxy-Retrofit to have 3-4 very large Cargo bays..

    And I want my Intrepid-Retrofit to have 2 medium sized ones, one with a set of Borg Alcoves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I believe my point has been misunderstood by a few folks >.< My bad for not clarifying well enough in the opening post.

    The idea is actually painfully simple, it's just that when I posted this morning I wasn't completely awake yet <X_X> so I didn't just write it out in one sentence like I could have:


    The sum total of the entire idea is to take the Bank, as we have it now, and give us access to it on the ship; with the name "Cargo" to make it feel a bit more logical.


    Sorry to bold that, I just want to make sure that the primary point isn't missed. That's not yelling or anything; I just want people to be sure to catch my meaning since clearly I failed to communicate what I was after in the original post.


    At any rate, on the rationale that your personal inventory is the cargo hold: I'm aware this is the line of reasoning we're supposed to be working under; however when your ship is 600+ meters long and very likely has cavernous holds available to it... it feels pretty wonky that a few hand phasers and a Slug O' Cola can eat up your inventory just as easily as Phaser Arrays and Photon Torpedo Tubes.

    Obviously, keeping the inventory system relatively simple is to the ultimate benefit of the game - so I'm not asking for that to be made more complex... just that it would be both more convenient and simultaneously make more sense if we could store significant quantities of stuff shipboard without having to return to Starbase anytime we wanted to bank something.

    I'm aware that there was something similar in beta (I was in beta, albeit after that point) - however I'm not talking about that type of system really. Like I said; this is basically just giving the player access to bank on their own ship; and then calling it "Cargo" to try to make sense of it. It's no different from going to ESD and accessing the bank; except now you can do it from your ship's interior.

    Note that this also makes more sense than the current 'bank' in terms of verisimilitude. I mean, you give your stuff to the bank, yet you can access it absolutely anywhere there's a bank terminal. How exactly does that work? I mean transporter technology is great, but I don't think it can beam stuff across the galaxy just yet...

    However if the bank were actually your cargo hold; suddenly it makes sense - you can access your loot at any bank terminal because you brought your loot with you; it's just in storage. See what I'm getting at? It's a pretty minor change, but it'd be convenient and I think, would improve immersion if only a little. Oh - and add that often-requested functionality to the ship interior too.

    Personal inventory under this system is just that - personal. Don't get me wrong, that leads to plenty of oddities ("How am I carrying a phaser array?") but eh... that's MMOs for you. I've done weirder in games that's for certain. It's certainly not that much stranger than looting random weapons to begin with <,< or being able to hot-swap them in just seconds out of combat. >.>

    So yeah, summed up:

    I just want the bank accessible on my ship. Calling it Cargo is simply a verisimilitude thing.

    Hopefully that is clearer. I'm going to edit the original post to explain this much more clearly to those coming into the thread late.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    An old idea I had:

    Let us add Cargo Bays to interiors for onboard (extra) storage. Let there be small cargo bays, medium sized ones, and large ones. Let larger ships hold multiple cargo bays.

    Some can be won in missions, some can be bought with merits, and maybe even (GASP) some on the C-Store.

    But not only should this add extra storage for you aboard your ship, but also an extra room you can walk into and see: the Cargo Bay.

    I'd be very much in favor of this idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Does any think we carry impulse engines in our inventory while on the ground? why not rename inventory cargo hold?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    To explain the idea in extremely simple terms: It's just access to the Bank, just like at ESD, except aboard your ship, and labelled Cargo Hold for verisimilitude purposes.

    Sorry for the bold, just wanted to make sure new people coming into the thread actually knew what I was talking about. I posted the original thread while not quite awake and apparently did a terrible job explaining what I was after. So - hopefully that's more clear.

    =========

    Original text:


    I was just thinking about this: Why do we have a Bank in a game where every character has access to at a starship?

    I know that technically that's what the Inventory is, but it really doesn't feel like it at all. It also feels a bit odd going all the way back to ESD or Q'onos to have them hold stuff for me that should, by all rights, fit on my ship without any effort. I will grant that, due to the simplicity* of STO's inventory system, we technically can hold as many full-size Phaser Arrays as we can Type-2 hand phasers... and so admittedly a hold full of the former may strain disbelief a little... but really no more than well... the above example.

    Basically the point is: Why not let us have a bank in our interior so instead of going all the way back to space dock, we can just grab stuff from our holds? >.>

    Wow, it sounds so pirate like! Okay you have my vote! :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It was recently announced that SW:TOR's cargo hold will operate as a bank. I love the idea and want to see it in STO as well. You have my support.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Also, I don't think the on-station banks need armed guards. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I cringed when I saw "Bank" when I started playing the game. In Star Trek cannon- at least TOS & TNG cannon when Roddenberry was in charge- starfleet officers don't use currency, they wouldn't need banks. In my own mind my inventory has always been the cargo hold. The bank has been more like a depot. If you could even just change the names it would stop me from cringing. I think it would be cool having it split up a little. Say personal items and consumables would be in inventory- and could be crafted aboard ship (pretty please Cryptic?) but starship items would have to be stored at a depot that could be at ESD, starbases, Memory Alpha. I mean think about it, let's say you craft/buy/ recieve from quest an impulse engine. Even in a Galaxy class Explorer do think there's room in the cargo bay for an extra engine?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I have called for a Cargo Hold (as in "bank" access) in our ship's interiors since we first got word that we'd have ship interiors. Everyone seems to have their own ideas how that should work though. Here's mine:
    • Rename all instances of "bank" to Cargo/Storage: It is what it is. What it is not, is a financial institution. It's an area where you store items. Change the signs on ESD from that glaringly different (TOS) font that says "BANK" to a more appropriate "Cargo/Storage" sign (maybe something with the cargo locator symbol). The DS9 "bank" area is already mostly a cargo hold anyway.
    • Keep the Exchange and (what we're currently calling "bank") cargo/storage terminals on starbases: This is in addition to the access points in the ship interior. Exchange areas should be in social areas, and it's only logical that you'd have access to your stored inventory nearby.
    • Keep Fleet Storage on Starbases: and also Fleet Starbases if/when these come into play. Again, this only makes sense. Fleet inventory is available to the entire fleet, so it needs to be in a place that would make sense for multiple people to have access to. You're not going to have access to the entire fleet's inventory in your ship. The only cargo you should be able to access in your ship is your own.

    There has been discussion on whether or not we should be able to pick up items sent in the mail on our ships, but honestly I could go either way with that. Having to pick up items at a starbase or other social instance would give us another reason to visit them though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I have called for a Cargo Hold (as in "bank" access) in our ship's interiors since we first got word that we'd have ship interiors. Everyone seems to have their own ideas how that should work though. Here's mine:
    • Rename all instances of "bank" to Cargo/Storage: It is what it is. What it is not, is a financial institution. It's an area where you store items. Change the signs on ESD from that glaringly different (TOS) font that says "BANK" to a more appropriate "Cargo/Storage" sign (maybe something with the cargo locator symbol). The DS9 "bank" area is already mostly a cargo hold anyway.
    • Keep the Exchange and (what we're currently calling "bank") cargo/storage terminals on starbases: This is in addition to the access points in the ship interior. Exchange areas should be in social areas, and it's only logical that you'd have access to your stored inventory nearby.
    • Keep Fleet Storage on Starbases: and also Fleet Starbases if/when these come into play. Again, this only makes sense. Fleet inventory is available to the entire fleet, so it needs to be in a place that would make sense for multiple people to have access to. You're not going to have access to the entire fleet's inventory in your ship. The only cargo you should be able to access in your ship is your own.

    There has been discussion on whether or not we should be able to pick up items sent in the mail on our ships, but honestly I could go either way with that. Having to pick up items at a starbase or other social instance would give us another reason to visit them though.


    Yeah, I would really love that. Great ideas!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I have called for a Cargo Hold (as in "bank" access) in our ship's interiors since we first got word that we'd have ship interiors. Everyone seems to have their own ideas how that should work though. Here's mine:
    • Rename all instances of "bank" to Cargo/Storage: It is what it is. What it is not, is a financial institution. It's an area where you store items. Change the signs on ESD from that glaringly different (TOS) font that says "BANK" to a more appropriate "Cargo/Storage" sign (maybe something with the cargo locator symbol). The DS9 "bank" area is already mostly a cargo hold anyway.
    • Keep the Exchange and (what we're currently calling "bank") cargo/storage terminals on starbases: This is in addition to the access points in the ship interior. Exchange areas should be in social areas, and it's only logical that you'd have access to your stored inventory nearby.
    • Keep Fleet Storage on Starbases: and also Fleet Starbases if/when these come into play. Again, this only makes sense. Fleet inventory is available to the entire fleet, so it needs to be in a place that would make sense for multiple people to have access to. You're not going to have access to the entire fleet's inventory in your ship. The only cargo you should be able to access in your ship is your own.
    There has been discussion on whether or not we should be able to pick up items sent in the mail on our ships, but honestly I could go either way with that. Having to pick up items at a starbase or other social instance would give us another reason to visit them though.

    I like that idea.

    I would like it more if we could store it in our ships' cargo bay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I have called for a Cargo Hold (as in "bank" access) in our ship's interiors since we first got word that we'd have ship interiors. Everyone seems to have their own ideas how that should work though. Here's mine:
    • Rename all instances of "bank" to Cargo/Storage: It is what it is. What it is not, is a financial institution. It's an area where you store items. Change the signs on ESD from that glaringly different (TOS) font that says "BANK" to a more appropriate "Cargo/Storage" sign (maybe something with the cargo locator symbol). The DS9 "bank" area is already mostly a cargo hold anyway.
    • Keep the Exchange and (what we're currently calling "bank") cargo/storage terminals on starbases: This is in addition to the access points in the ship interior. Exchange areas should be in social areas, and it's only logical that you'd have access to your stored inventory nearby.
    • Keep Fleet Storage on Starbases: and also Fleet Starbases if/when these come into play. Again, this only makes sense. Fleet inventory is available to the entire fleet, so it needs to be in a place that would make sense for multiple people to have access to. You're not going to have access to the entire fleet's inventory in your ship. The only cargo you should be able to access in your ship is your own.

    There has been discussion on whether or not we should be able to pick up items sent in the mail on our ships, but honestly I could go either way with that. Having to pick up items at a starbase or other social instance would give us another reason to visit them though.

    This is an excellent and logical suggestion. Ship's cargo would be just that. It's tied to you and your ship.

    Keeping the Exchange on starbased and Fleet Storage at starbased/Fleet bases also makes a lot of sense and keeps the "social" areas active as well.

    With regard to another poster's comments on crafting: I'd like to see significant crafting available on our ships as well, but perhaps with limitations (e.g., some things require greater resources to craft than would be available on a ship).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    An old idea I had:

    Let us add Cargo Bays to interiors for onboard (extra) storage. Let there be small cargo bays, medium sized ones, and large ones. Let larger ships hold multiple cargo bays.

    Some can be won in missions, some can be bought with merits, and maybe even (GASP) some on the C-Store.

    But not only should this add extra storage for you aboard your ship, but also an extra room you can walk into and see: the Cargo Bay.


    hm, somebody plays EVE?
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