It may seem like a sarcastic remark, but seriously tho, what point is there to play beyond the weekly episodes? I mean, the Foundry will just add a few little missions here and there, but where's the proper endgame content? One year post launch and there's still little to no point to keep a sub running beyond reaching maximum level cap (on all of my toons on all of the slots available).
So... any idea when there's going to be proper exploration missions, "raid-like" instances that require more then 5 people, because let's just face it here and now, 5 manned missions are NOT proper endgame content. Heck there's no point in playing them after you've gotten your Borg items. Seriously Cryptic, tell me why someone should keep their sub running beyond that point? It's already hard to establish a good and stable fleet, let alone keep that fleet together in a game that offers no content at level cap. Not everyone is a roleplayer, not everyone is a grinder...
by a 'few' you do realise it will be thousands. some as involving and as intricate as some of the missions already in game.
At a certain point you won't be motivated anymore to do them. It's a question of time/reward ratio here. Again, what do you think qualifies as endgame content here in STO?
It may seem like a sarcastic remark, but seriously tho, what point is there to play beyond the weekly episodes? I mean, the Foundry will just add a few little missions here and there, but where's the proper endgame content? One year post launch and there's still little to no point to keep a sub running beyond reaching maximum level cap (on all of my toons on all of the slots available).
So... any idea when there's going to be proper exploration missions, "raid-like" instances that require more then 5 people, because let's just face it here and now, 5 manned missions are NOT proper endgame content. Heck there's no point in playing them after you've gotten your Borg items. Seriously Cryptic, tell me why someone should keep their sub running beyond that point? It's already hard to establish a good and stable fleet, let alone keep that fleet together in a game that offers no content at level cap. Not everyone is a roleplayer, not everyone is a grinder...
Things to do
Talk to people, meet new people. (Granted not the usual idiots that love to play around in ESD)
Suck a mint
Do more more dailies, then you can ping your gear like the leet at ESD
Take a quick bath
Post on the forums how you can't entertain yourself.
Make great posts with yellow headlines and unnumbered lists, and call yourself a game designer
Read my posts and put me on ignore
That's a start. Really, You won't be happy on any other game. (WOW has it right, so why are you here? ) Even PW has it right for some. If you can't find something to do, I suggest trying many others, cause they are all the same.
I think you have answered your own question based on what you have said. Take a little time off after this season, keep yourself up to date about forthcoming events and new features, and return prehaps then. You are not being forced to continue to sub, and although you don't seem to understand that STO, regardless of how long it has been live should by now have some kind of Cataclysm level of content, you should do what you wish with your money.
I enjoy the grind, the search for more accolades and helping others in the Fleet i am in with things i've already done. The weekly series is great, but if thats all that is keeping you playing, once its over, leave things for a while. And if you miss STO before more is added, you know you can always come back.
while the foundry will add more, I beleive the OP is more looking at progression type content.
this is one of the reasons I keep repeating over and over that we need a large scale territory control sector, complete with a pve and pvp focus.
mining, prospecting, surveying, exploration and construction/crafting on the pve side
conquest , scouting and defense on the pvp side.
a solid system will generate it's own content if it's done right. Look at eve online they are just in the last year and a half adding meaningful pve into the game.
while I don't want sto to turn into eve online with a star trek skin, I do think adding a 4x strategy element would go a long way towards helping the foundry into generating content and giving the devs room to breathe while they add more to the game.
heres my suggestion:
a wormhole to an unexplored quadrant.
each faction starts in a corner, and moves towards it's center via transwarp conduits or individual wormholes.
a fleet can claim a system and build a base within it, only one base per fleet per system.
systems nearby can be mined for resources however a fleet must construct a mining outpost in the relevant system.
mining outposts can be attacked and destroyed, if a fleet loses its trickle of resources from mining it can no longer craft.
every fleet can deploy one outpost for free, always.
any more outposts need to be crafted using harvested resources.
in order to facilitate trade alliances and conquest, each system provides one type of resource, and multiple resources need to be used for crafting.
when a system is being mined it can be attacked at anytime by npc raider fleets of the oposing faction.
these fleets can be repelled if the owners construct and maintain defense platforms and npc pet ships.
in order for an enemey faction to attack a mining outpost system of the oposite faction it must bid resources (create a supply line)
when the bid exceeds the total amount of resources spent in defense construction the system becomes attackable for 24 hours.
if the invaders win the conflict by destroying the outpost they recieve the system, and all stored resources at the outpost.
if they lose they lose half the bid on the system and can be counter attacked at a reduced cost.
within this system setting certain systems contain alien factions that can be won over to the player teams that preform missions for them.
once a faction is won over for the next 24 hours it will send raiding parties at oposing player factions installations, provide empire defense style and exploration cluster missions with rescource rewards etc.
these are just some ideas, I wish someone more organized would mock up some kind of map and graphics and think it out, but really it would give players an entire endgame that would never run out of content.
Why do you people keep insisting on WoW? Seriously it's like some kind of a weird compulsion. I've started playing MMOs back in 1998, Meridian 59 was my first. I spend like a tiny portion of time in WoW and it really didn't suit me. Point is people; progress... forget about WoW it's a past product from a past era.
Basically I'm not blaming STO at all, I'm blaming the current day lazy devs. I've been to so many failed MMO launches lately and in most cases the mistakes are virtually identical: crazy amount of bugs despite a lengthy beta test, absolutely no content past level cap and false promises from devs all over the place. Yes, STO devs have been doing a lot of good work lately but they keep missing the bigger picture. ENDGAME CONTENT!
I guess I'm placing these questions in light of the close (?) release of SWTOR. Altho, looking at SWTOR, it's going to be virtually identical to STO in terms of content issues. Like I said, 5 man missions don't count as endgame content at all.
Point is, I've come back to this game 2 times already and a 3th time really isn't an option anymore. STO to me will be a dead game soon, don't mean it's gonna be the same for other people, but for me it's gonna be finished soon enough. Will the future MMOs be better then STO? No way of telling, they could even be worse. Past few years I've seen the new launches fail due to stupid design, devs that think their paying customers are a bunch of TRIBBLE and the entire shabam of "endgame content should be optional"... am I REALLY the only one that thinks in terms of keeping yourself busy beyond reaching level cap? I can't be bothered to lvl anymore alts because in the end, there still is no point.
Again, if anyone has any "to the point" input and can point me towards the proper STO endgame content, I'd be grateful.
while the foundry will add more, I beleive the OP is more looking at progression type content.
this is one of the reasons I keep repeating over and over that we need a large scale territory control sector, complete with a pve and pvp focus.
mining, prospecting, surveying, exploration and construction/crafting on the pve side
conquest , scouting and defense on the pvp side.
a solid system will generate it's own content if it's done right. Look at eve online they are just in the last year and a half adding meaningful pve into the game.
while I don't want sto to turn into eve online with a star trek skin, I do think adding a 4x strategy element would go a long way towards helping the foundry into generating content and giving the devs room to breathe while they add more to the game.
heres my suggestion:
a wormhole to an unexplored quadrant.
each faction starts in a corner, and moves towards it's center via transwarp conduits or individual wormholes.
a fleet can claim a system and build a base within it, only one base per fleet per system.
systems nearby can be mined for resources however a fleet must construct a mining outpost in the relevant system.
mining outposts can be attacked and destroyed, if a fleet loses its trickle of resources from mining it can no longer craft.
every fleet can deploy one outpost for free, always.
any more outposts need to be crafted using harvested resources.
in order to facilitate trade alliances and conquest, each system provides one type of resource, and multiple resources need to be used for crafting.
when a system is being mined it can be attacked at anytime by npc raider fleets of the oposing faction.
these fleets can be repelled if the owners construct and maintain defense platforms and npc pet ships.
in order for an enemey faction to attack a mining outpost system of the oposite faction it must bid resources (create a supply line)
when the bid exceeds the total amount of resources spent in defense construction the system becomes attackable for 24 hours.
if the invaders win the conflict by destroying the outpost they recieve the system, and all stored resources at the outpost.
if they lose they lose half the bid on the system and can be counter attacked at a reduced cost.
within this system setting certain systems contain alien factions that can be won over to the player teams that preform missions for them.
once a faction is won over for the next 24 hours it will send raiding parties at oposing player factions installations, provide empire defense style and exploration cluster missions with rescource rewards etc.
these are just some ideas, I wish someone more organized would mock up some kind of map and graphics and think it out, but really it would give players an entire endgame that would never run out of content.
Bingo, this is the type of posts I wanted to see. Awesome ideas, not that hard to implement. The STO engine is more then capable of this. So why not focus on this type of content then Cryptic?
Why do you people keep insisting on WoW? Seriously it's like some kind of a weird compulsion. I've started playing MMOs back in 1998, Meridian 59 was my first. I spend like a tiny portion of time in WoW and it really didn't suit me. Point is people; progress... forget about WoW it's a past product from a past era.
Basically I'm not blaming STO at all, I'm blaming the current day lazy devs. I've been to so many failed MMO launches lately and in most cases the mistakes are virtually identical: crazy amount of bugs despite a lengthy beta test, absolutely no content past level cap and false promises from devs all over the place. Yes, STO devs have been doing a lot of good work lately but they keep missing the bigger picture. ENDGAME CONTENT!
I guess I'm placing these questions in light of the close (?) release of SWTOR. Altho, looking at SWTOR, it's going to be virtually identical to STO in terms of content issues. Like I said, 5 man missions don't count as endgame content at all.
Point is, I've come back to this game 2 times already and a 3th time really isn't an option anymore. STO to me will be a dead game soon, don't mean it's gonna be the same for other people, but for me it's gonna be finished soon enough. Will the future MMOs be better then STO? No way of telling, they could even be worse. Past few years I've seen the new launches fail due to stupid design, devs that think their paying customers are a bunch of TRIBBLE and the entire shabam of "endgame content should be optional"... am I REALLY the only one that thinks in terms of keeping yourself busy beyond reaching level cap? I can't be bothered to lvl anymore alts because in the end, there still is no point.
Again, if anyone has any "to the point" input and can point me towards the proper STO endgame content, I'd be grateful.
End game (in any game) is either "I get to run TRIBBLE in groups, just for loot" or "I have friends I can talk to" You choose.
At a certain point you won't be motivated anymore to do them. It's a question of time/reward ratio here. Again, what do you think qualifies as endgame content here in STO?
you can of course speak for yourself but no one else on this issue. how do you know i will get bored of them? i watch star trek for the stories. i dont read books to be given some uber reward at the end. i read them because i enjoy them. i actually play the missions for the stories too. levelling up is cool but i enjoy the adventure. endless adventures is endgame.
ill admit its hopefully only one of many endgames we will get to play and stories alone are not enough for everybody, but no one has invented an endgame yet that people wont get bored of, its impossible. at least with the foundry every mission will be different. unlike raids or even open pvp which is shaped by the users to a degree but its still the same mechanic. stories are literally infinite.
you can of course speak for yourself but no one else on this issue. how do you know i will get bored of them? i watch star trek for the stories. i dont read books to be given some uber reward at the end. i read them because i enjoy them. i actually play the missions for the stories too. levelling up is cool but i enjoy the adventure. endless adventures is endgame.
ill admit its hopefully only one of many endgames we will get to play and stories alone are not enough for everybody, but no one has invented an endgame yet that people wont get bored of, its impossible. at least with the foundry every mission will be different. unlike raids or even open pvp which is shaped by the users to a degree but its still the same mechanic. stories are literally infinite.
i disagree eve online invented an endgame people didn't get bored of, because they designed an endgame that is player driven in nature, these types of endgames are the best ones possible because no scripted pve encounter can ever accomplish what thousands of players in a giant sandbox can.
now before anyone gets on the "then go play eve bandwagon" I'm a lifetime subscriber, I love the game dearly, it's been a breath of fresh air in a sci fi stagnant market. I believe in the development team working on the game because when they implement something I see real talent in what they create. They also have a knowledge and love of the I.P and it shows.
I also look at the foundry and having played neverwinter nights for years I understand how much it will bring to the game.
I also know that in adding the weekley content and the foundry this dev team has shown a willingness to part from standard MMO design and listen to it's community and poll it for ideas and run with them, since doing this they have arguably solidified and fleshed out the current game to a level that now allows it to stay above water in a sea of half baked flash in the pan MMO games .
it's major competitor is launching this year, and it will blaze a pve story driven experience through a much loved I.P and move into the current sci fi MMO pool with all the subtlety of an asteroid.
in order to sway and maintain the churn of people that hop from game to game I personally feel that an endgame territory control system will add an element that only one other MMO on the market currently has.
in all the multitude of titles floating out there in MMO land only one has a robust territory control system and despite tedious combat, almost zero pve content beyond kill and fed ex quests it has thrived.
Imagine that dynamic in a game with everything STo has to offer already and you have something.
Buy Minecaft to play on the weekdays and then play the weeklys on the weekend. Maybe hopeful they add open pvp territory control system within this year.
i disagree eve online invented an endgame people didn't get bored of
i meant everyone but did not explain myself very well.
sure lots of people love eve and play it all the time and might never get bored of it, and im sure an equally large number have gotten bored and moved on. you cant make an endgame to please everybody. the foundry wont please everybody and i hope they do other stuff like a pvp territory war but the foundry is a viable endgame just as anything else is. its just different. some will love it some will hate it, some will play 10 missions, some will play a thousand.
my original post was in argument to the Op who dismissed it and seemed to suggest it was only good for a 'few' missions. I think its good for much more than that and could be considered endgame just like anything else.
this is one of the reasons I keep repeating over and over that we need a large scale territory control sector, complete with a pve and pvp focus.
This is very good for end game. It gives people a reason to fight for their faction and to form fleets and well to feel like they are doing more than just building up gear to allow them to more easily build up more gear.
The problem and not with the idea but instead with the current set up is that the Klingons would stand no chance in hell. I took my KDF escort over to do the latest episodic content and I almost couldn't get near the plannet for the Federation ships blotting it out. There wasn't one other Klingon vessel in sight, most people have Fed mains and then a Klingon alt if they play a KDF at all. So the sides would be so uneven that the KDF wouldn't even bother turning up just to get blown to pieces and the numbers would fall as people with Fed mains would be unwilling to try and win back gains they just made with their star fleet captain.
And this isn't the people playing the games fault, Cryptic have made the KDF experience so bad hard core Klingon players have quit, and who can blame them its a completely sub par experience. You either go fed or you go do 100 exploration missions. Unless Cryptic can do something to make the Klingon experience worth while there wont be any reason for open PvP as the feds wont have anyone the fight.
It may seem like a sarcastic remark, but seriously tho, what point is there to play beyond the weekly episodes? I mean, the Foundry will just add a few little missions here and there, but where's the proper endgame content? One year post launch and there's still little to no point to keep a sub running beyond reaching maximum level cap (on all of my toons on all of the slots available).
So... any idea when there's going to be proper exploration missions, "raid-like" instances that require more then 5 people, because let's just face it here and now, 5 manned missions are NOT proper endgame content. Heck there's no point in playing them after you've gotten your Borg items. Seriously Cryptic, tell me why someone should keep their sub running beyond that point? It's already hard to establish a good and stable fleet, let alone keep that fleet together in a game that offers no content at level cap. Not everyone is a roleplayer, not everyone is a grinder...
First I have yet to find ANY MMO with a so called endgame. Once you cap out on all of them you run the said RAIDS over and over, no real change.
However you want RAID like missions, then look at Fleet Actions. DStahl has stated that Fleet Actions are also being revamped to allow a more RAID feel where a fleet can pull in just a specific group to do it.
This myth however that other MMOs have this massively open end game with no grind with no repitition and tons of content past max level is getting old.
Basically I'm not blaming STO at all, I'm blaming the current day lazy devs. I've been to so many failed MMO launches lately and in most cases the mistakes are virtually identical: crazy amount of bugs despite a lengthy beta test, absolutely no content past level cap and false promises from devs all over the place. Yes, STO devs have been doing a lot of good work lately but they keep missing the bigger picture. ENDGAME CONTENT!
You apparently have no understanding of the definition of the word "lazy." The devs have been far from lazy.
This is very good for end game. It gives people a reason to fight for their faction and to form fleets and well to feel like they are doing more than just building up gear to allow them to more easily build up more gear.
The problem and not with the idea but instead with the current set up is that the Klingons would stand no chance in hell. I took my KDF escort over to do the latest episodic content and I almost couldn't get near the plannet for the Federation ships blotting it out. There wasn't one other Klingon vessel in sight, most people have Fed mains and then a Klingon alt if they play a KDF at all. So the sides would be so uneven that the KDF wouldn't even bother turning up just to get blown to pieces and the numbers would fall as people with Fed mains would be unwilling to try and win back gains they just made with their star fleet captain.
And this isn't the people playing the games fault, Cryptic have made the KDF experience so bad hard core Klingon players have quit, and who can blame them its a completely sub par experience. You either go fed or you go do 100 exploration missions. Unless Cryptic can do something to make the Klingon experience worth while there wont be any reason for open PvP as the feds wont have anyone the fight.
This would be largely negated by setting up each faction in its own corner and having them igrate to the center.
If you make it impossible to attack a sector unless you own the sector nearby, it would create shifting fronts for the war, add in a third faction and eventually a fourth faction and now you have another aspect of end game...political intrigue.
If factions team up and block off entry lines by capturing systems close to one another and can forge alliances, then smaller factions can overcome large factions by creating chokepoints.
the other factor here is systems are captured by fleets, if a fleet is not planning it's expansion with it's allies then it could leave holes in the front, or even allow enemies to drive wedges in it.
In this setup the strongest most active fleets of each faction would move towards the main conflict, and if they defend their system from another fleet's incursions could lock up any advance into their space.
remember in my proposal fleets can only attack other fleets, so the might of an entire faction can't be brought down on one system, only the might of a single fleet.
and as far as being outnumbered it kind of works with cannon, the federation is much larger than the empire, and larger still that the remains of the romulan empire, the map would reflect this and compliment the existing gameworld.
I think it would be cool to land a shuttle or ship on a planet, currently, if you get too close to the planets you will encounter the atmosphere, why not let us keep going, in the right ship, not a galaxy or large ship, but maybe a shuttle or intrepid class, it would be cool if I could land my Science Retrofit,,, just another idea.
It's called character progression. And there should be viable branches available to all the major play styles; raiding, solo, crafting, pvp and diplomatic. Please be open minded for the people who socialize but don't want every second of their play time dictated to them by a raid calender.
please explain END GAME, I Think that I do not know what this is.
The concept of end game is that when you reach the max level you will still have things you can do. In most other games this involves large scale (raids) that involve a large number of players to complete. However there is a myth out there that some game, no one can really name which one, has a ton of content for max level that can keep people occupied infinitely and so any game that does not must be flawed.
NO MMO HAS AN OPEN END GAME. They all essentially boil down to the same thing, grind away and once you get all the cool high end loot you grind for fun with your friends and really gain nothing.
This is actually just an excuse used by the "I WIN" mentality players that do not truly grasp the concept of the MMO. For the most part they can be safely ignored.
The concept of end game is that when you reach the max level you will still have things you can do. In most other games this involves large scale (raids) that involve a large number of players to complete. However there is a myth out there that some game, no one can really name which one, has a ton of content for max level that can keep people occupied infinitely and so any game that does not must be flawed.
NO MMO HAS AN OPEN END GAME. They all essentially boil down to the same thing, grind away and once you get all the cool high end loot you grind for fun with your friends and really gain nothing.
This is actually just an excuse used by the "I WIN" mentality players that do not truly grasp the concept of the MMO. For the most part they can be safely ignored.
It is better they continue to make content to the game then to make an END GAME and then they are finished...
please explain END GAME, I Think that I do not know what this is.
end game is not the end of the game. it is something to do when you character is at max rank. that could be pvp, or it could be grinding for better gear, or repeatable quests that give special loot, or it could be actual missions like the foundry or featured eps. usually it is something that is repeatable but always different.
some players level only one character get to the end and have nothing to do to either further their character or further their enjoyment. some also dont consider new episodes end game. they actually want something that is both fun, that they can do every day and get rewards for.
open pvp is the best example as every day it is different and often yields rewards that you cant get from the normal pve. people can do the same thing over and over but each time its slightly different. featured episodes for example can be played once per character and then you have done it. yes you can replay the ep but your doing the exact same story, for pretty much the exact same rewards. after a couple of play through its both boring and pointless.
'end game' is a misleading term. its more like 'max level' game.
STO and endgame content, a somewhat peculiar topic.
To the OP: as you can see, hinting at a lack of end game content and even more so suggesting the need for "raid style" elements results in a lot of hostility. The reason for that is simple. The vast majority of those people who were looking or hoping for a type of endgame as you (or myself for that matter) would like it have left a long time ago.
Now STO is left with what is largely a single player- and story mission oriented playerbase. The thing is, STO never aspired to cater to any other group, and in all likelyhood never will. This is a bit of a self inducing cycle.
At the beginning you have a game that is only comprised of leveling (story/single player) content. The lack of content specifically combined with the complete absence of any end game elements other than maybe arena/cap and hold pvp, inevitably resulted in the "raid-/multiplayer oriented" folks leaving as they hit the level cap very quickly and found nothing else to do.
What has remained are those who focus on enjoying the single player/story aspects of the game. Thus the bulk of all playerbase feedback is asking for more story missions, more "normal" content. Requests for "raids" are shot down with the famous "go back to wow!", "go find your boring grindy stuff elsewhere!", and not to forget the always popular "don't you dare wish for group content, group content = forced grouping! That is satan-incarnate, you have to be out of your mind!".
So, the devs are facing a demand almost exclusively in favor of solo/story missions. Cryptic is paying quite some attention to the fans' demands and thus focuses on this element of the game.
Over the course of the past year it has become more than evident that this is the direction of the game and this direction is here to stay. The devs are doing what they have admittably gotten very good at: creating involving story missions. The weekly episodes, that is what STO does. It does it well, but unfortunately it won't be doing much, if anything, else.
The cycle repeats. Former (or new) players like you return, looking, hoping, for raid style elements and don't find it. Corresponding suggestions are shot down by the overwhelming single player crowd while maintaining/increasing their demand for more story content.
It is only natural that Cryptic keeps focusing on what they know and what they are good at, meaning more single player possibilities.
You might hear some people point to promises about upcoming changes and additions, about fleet actions being the raid content (sorry guys, all they are adding is a way for pre-made groups to start their own fleet action instances, there is no change whatsoever to the "kill X amount of generic ship type Y" structure), or most of all the praises of the User Generated Content and how it will revolutionize STO... (and to quote myself from an other post: ) just like the genesis-engine based exploration system was hyped in the early days. But fact is, STO is what it is. It does a lot of things really well and it will undoubtely keep improving and doing these things even better in the future, but it will not change directions towards anything multiplayer/raid style oriented.
There is a lot more to say about this topic but fact is I have already done so in the past in other topics, with the same reactions found in thisone, plus, it is simply pointless, there are just by far not enough people left here who are interested in any form of endgame content as it is found in other, one could say "proper" or better "pure" MMOs. Not long ago I even considred writing an extensive guideline of how STO could and should introduce challenging and fun (large-)group based encounters. I had to ask myself though, why bother, players and devs alike have no interest in these things, so why bother.
The bottom line is: the weekly episodes, the daily missions that go along with them and in a few months the flood of countless sub-par User Created (single player) quests are the only endgame to be found in STO (outside pvp). And yes, the devs have even stated that the majority of their resources are being focused on the weeklies.
The core question you have to ask yourself is this: at this very time, does STO offer the kind of gameplay you are looking for, in a way, form or shape that you are enjoying and that you consider fun enough to stay subscribed, or not.
For me personally the star trek feel of the game coupled with the excellent graphics, space combat and the Bridge Officer system keep making me want to log in and fly off with my ship and, yeah, well, do stuff. Unfortunately the "do stuff" part is where it gets bumpy. I am with you. There is little that I would love more than to experience big and challenging encounters with a lot (read: more than 5 or 10) players and work together to learn to overcome and defeat whatever may be put in our way there.
STO won't ever offer that but the mentioned positive aspects are good enough for me to every now and then come back and enjoy flying my ship again for a while.
If you do not find enough aspects like these that make you want to play the game in its current state and gameplay direction, then I am afraid you will indeed be better off elsewhere. Me I do not really regret having a lifetime subscription (although I don't know for sure if I would really buy it again if I had the chance) but I had come to accept that STO is not suited for being a "main" MMO as in being "the" one and only online game to play. I did in fact go back to an older one and am getting my multiplayer enjoyment out of thatone.
A huge wall of text filled with largely sad or disappointing content and realizations but I hope it helped painting a clearer picture of STO and its endgame(-future).
i agree with the OP in the point that there is little to none Endgame.
The little Endgame they have, STF's Fleetactions and PVP was not improved but only maintained over the last year.
It broke down, they had to fix it. They added 20 new ships and abilities... they had to let Snix do some nerfing.
That isn't improving, that is maintaining.
On the other hand, i ASKED for Weekly Episodes (that was realy a must have and i had the idea a few days after the game launched), i ASKED for UGC (because it just makes so much sense to have the Fanfiction crowd able to deliver their story's in this format)
and now i'm gonna get it!
I want that stuff!
And honestly, Story Missions is the best part of the game they had,
STF, Fleetactions and PVP all kinda suck (for various reasons).... We told them loud and clear!
So they concentrated on improving the part we like the most and left the other stuff to rot.
No reason to improve on features the player base doesn't like.
Endgame won't be touched on properly until Season 5.
I know, I know - a good portion of us (especially after the SP boost) are sitting at cap waiting for weekly missions, playing dailies, and running PvP.
However, the hopes for endgame in STO should involve more than Fleet Actions or STFs (though some more would be nice):
Territory Control
Exploration Revisions
etc.
That said, the upcoming triggers and branching dialogue for Foundry missions means there are some decidedly difficult missions you can create in the Foundry. IN fact, once a stable build gets pushed to Tribble (and we can access it), I'd suggest seeing if you can created a mission similar in complexity to the Cure or Infected or something a bit more engaging and less grindy.
So, the Foundry won't entirely be fire-and-forget easy missions with linear dialogue.
Comments
by a 'few' you do realise it will be thousands. some as involving and as intricate as some of the missions already in game.
At a certain point you won't be motivated anymore to do them. It's a question of time/reward ratio here. Again, what do you think qualifies as endgame content here in STO?
Things to do
That's a start. Really, You won't be happy on any other game. (WOW has it right, so why are you here? ) Even PW has it right for some. If you can't find something to do, I suggest trying many others, cause they are all the same.
I enjoy the grind, the search for more accolades and helping others in the Fleet i am in with things i've already done. The weekly series is great, but if thats all that is keeping you playing, once its over, leave things for a while. And if you miss STO before more is added, you know you can always come back.
this is one of the reasons I keep repeating over and over that we need a large scale territory control sector, complete with a pve and pvp focus.
mining, prospecting, surveying, exploration and construction/crafting on the pve side
conquest , scouting and defense on the pvp side.
a solid system will generate it's own content if it's done right. Look at eve online they are just in the last year and a half adding meaningful pve into the game.
while I don't want sto to turn into eve online with a star trek skin, I do think adding a 4x strategy element would go a long way towards helping the foundry into generating content and giving the devs room to breathe while they add more to the game.
heres my suggestion:
a wormhole to an unexplored quadrant.
each faction starts in a corner, and moves towards it's center via transwarp conduits or individual wormholes.
a fleet can claim a system and build a base within it, only one base per fleet per system.
systems nearby can be mined for resources however a fleet must construct a mining outpost in the relevant system.
mining outposts can be attacked and destroyed, if a fleet loses its trickle of resources from mining it can no longer craft.
every fleet can deploy one outpost for free, always.
any more outposts need to be crafted using harvested resources.
in order to facilitate trade alliances and conquest, each system provides one type of resource, and multiple resources need to be used for crafting.
when a system is being mined it can be attacked at anytime by npc raider fleets of the oposing faction.
these fleets can be repelled if the owners construct and maintain defense platforms and npc pet ships.
in order for an enemey faction to attack a mining outpost system of the oposite faction it must bid resources (create a supply line)
when the bid exceeds the total amount of resources spent in defense construction the system becomes attackable for 24 hours.
if the invaders win the conflict by destroying the outpost they recieve the system, and all stored resources at the outpost.
if they lose they lose half the bid on the system and can be counter attacked at a reduced cost.
within this system setting certain systems contain alien factions that can be won over to the player teams that preform missions for them.
once a faction is won over for the next 24 hours it will send raiding parties at oposing player factions installations, provide empire defense style and exploration cluster missions with rescource rewards etc.
these are just some ideas, I wish someone more organized would mock up some kind of map and graphics and think it out, but really it would give players an entire endgame that would never run out of content.
Basically I'm not blaming STO at all, I'm blaming the current day lazy devs. I've been to so many failed MMO launches lately and in most cases the mistakes are virtually identical: crazy amount of bugs despite a lengthy beta test, absolutely no content past level cap and false promises from devs all over the place. Yes, STO devs have been doing a lot of good work lately but they keep missing the bigger picture. ENDGAME CONTENT!
I guess I'm placing these questions in light of the close (?) release of SWTOR. Altho, looking at SWTOR, it's going to be virtually identical to STO in terms of content issues. Like I said, 5 man missions don't count as endgame content at all.
Point is, I've come back to this game 2 times already and a 3th time really isn't an option anymore. STO to me will be a dead game soon, don't mean it's gonna be the same for other people, but for me it's gonna be finished soon enough. Will the future MMOs be better then STO? No way of telling, they could even be worse. Past few years I've seen the new launches fail due to stupid design, devs that think their paying customers are a bunch of TRIBBLE and the entire shabam of "endgame content should be optional"... am I REALLY the only one that thinks in terms of keeping yourself busy beyond reaching level cap? I can't be bothered to lvl anymore alts because in the end, there still is no point.
Again, if anyone has any "to the point" input and can point me towards the proper STO endgame content, I'd be grateful.
Bingo, this is the type of posts I wanted to see. Awesome ideas, not that hard to implement. The STO engine is more then capable of this. So why not focus on this type of content then Cryptic?
End game (in any game) is either "I get to run TRIBBLE in groups, just for loot" or "I have friends I can talk to" You choose.
Which rakes in more money than God.
you can of course speak for yourself but no one else on this issue. how do you know i will get bored of them? i watch star trek for the stories. i dont read books to be given some uber reward at the end. i read them because i enjoy them. i actually play the missions for the stories too. levelling up is cool but i enjoy the adventure. endless adventures is endgame.
ill admit its hopefully only one of many endgames we will get to play and stories alone are not enough for everybody, but no one has invented an endgame yet that people wont get bored of, its impossible. at least with the foundry every mission will be different. unlike raids or even open pvp which is shaped by the users to a degree but its still the same mechanic. stories are literally infinite.
i disagree eve online invented an endgame people didn't get bored of, because they designed an endgame that is player driven in nature, these types of endgames are the best ones possible because no scripted pve encounter can ever accomplish what thousands of players in a giant sandbox can.
now before anyone gets on the "then go play eve bandwagon" I'm a lifetime subscriber, I love the game dearly, it's been a breath of fresh air in a sci fi stagnant market. I believe in the development team working on the game because when they implement something I see real talent in what they create. They also have a knowledge and love of the I.P and it shows.
I also look at the foundry and having played neverwinter nights for years I understand how much it will bring to the game.
I also know that in adding the weekley content and the foundry this dev team has shown a willingness to part from standard MMO design and listen to it's community and poll it for ideas and run with them, since doing this they have arguably solidified and fleshed out the current game to a level that now allows it to stay above water in a sea of half baked flash in the pan MMO games .
it's major competitor is launching this year, and it will blaze a pve story driven experience through a much loved I.P and move into the current sci fi MMO pool with all the subtlety of an asteroid.
in order to sway and maintain the churn of people that hop from game to game I personally feel that an endgame territory control system will add an element that only one other MMO on the market currently has.
in all the multitude of titles floating out there in MMO land only one has a robust territory control system and despite tedious combat, almost zero pve content beyond kill and fed ex quests it has thrived.
Imagine that dynamic in a game with everything STo has to offer already and you have something.
Buy Minecaft to play on the weekdays and then play the weeklys on the weekend. Maybe hopeful they add open pvp territory control system within this year.
i meant everyone but did not explain myself very well.
sure lots of people love eve and play it all the time and might never get bored of it, and im sure an equally large number have gotten bored and moved on. you cant make an endgame to please everybody. the foundry wont please everybody and i hope they do other stuff like a pvp territory war but the foundry is a viable endgame just as anything else is. its just different. some will love it some will hate it, some will play 10 missions, some will play a thousand.
my original post was in argument to the Op who dismissed it and seemed to suggest it was only good for a 'few' missions. I think its good for much more than that and could be considered endgame just like anything else.
This is very good for end game. It gives people a reason to fight for their faction and to form fleets and well to feel like they are doing more than just building up gear to allow them to more easily build up more gear.
The problem and not with the idea but instead with the current set up is that the Klingons would stand no chance in hell. I took my KDF escort over to do the latest episodic content and I almost couldn't get near the plannet for the Federation ships blotting it out. There wasn't one other Klingon vessel in sight, most people have Fed mains and then a Klingon alt if they play a KDF at all. So the sides would be so uneven that the KDF wouldn't even bother turning up just to get blown to pieces and the numbers would fall as people with Fed mains would be unwilling to try and win back gains they just made with their star fleet captain.
And this isn't the people playing the games fault, Cryptic have made the KDF experience so bad hard core Klingon players have quit, and who can blame them its a completely sub par experience. You either go fed or you go do 100 exploration missions. Unless Cryptic can do something to make the Klingon experience worth while there wont be any reason for open PvP as the feds wont have anyone the fight.
First I have yet to find ANY MMO with a so called endgame. Once you cap out on all of them you run the said RAIDS over and over, no real change.
However you want RAID like missions, then look at Fleet Actions. DStahl has stated that Fleet Actions are also being revamped to allow a more RAID feel where a fleet can pull in just a specific group to do it.
This myth however that other MMOs have this massively open end game with no grind with no repitition and tons of content past max level is getting old.
You apparently have no understanding of the definition of the word "lazy." The devs have been far from lazy.
This would be largely negated by setting up each faction in its own corner and having them igrate to the center.
If you make it impossible to attack a sector unless you own the sector nearby, it would create shifting fronts for the war, add in a third faction and eventually a fourth faction and now you have another aspect of end game...political intrigue.
If factions team up and block off entry lines by capturing systems close to one another and can forge alliances, then smaller factions can overcome large factions by creating chokepoints.
the other factor here is systems are captured by fleets, if a fleet is not planning it's expansion with it's allies then it could leave holes in the front, or even allow enemies to drive wedges in it.
In this setup the strongest most active fleets of each faction would move towards the main conflict, and if they defend their system from another fleet's incursions could lock up any advance into their space.
remember in my proposal fleets can only attack other fleets, so the might of an entire faction can't be brought down on one system, only the might of a single fleet.
and as far as being outnumbered it kind of works with cannon, the federation is much larger than the empire, and larger still that the remains of the romulan empire, the map would reflect this and compliment the existing gameworld.
Some thing that says: Congratulation you have finished this game! Now go and do something else... ?
Which is the exact opposite of an End Game.
please explain END GAME, I Think that I do not know what this is.
The concept of end game is that when you reach the max level you will still have things you can do. In most other games this involves large scale (raids) that involve a large number of players to complete. However there is a myth out there that some game, no one can really name which one, has a ton of content for max level that can keep people occupied infinitely and so any game that does not must be flawed.
NO MMO HAS AN OPEN END GAME. They all essentially boil down to the same thing, grind away and once you get all the cool high end loot you grind for fun with your friends and really gain nothing.
This is actually just an excuse used by the "I WIN" mentality players that do not truly grasp the concept of the MMO. For the most part they can be safely ignored.
It is better they continue to make content to the game then to make an END GAME and then they are finished...
end game is not the end of the game. it is something to do when you character is at max rank. that could be pvp, or it could be grinding for better gear, or repeatable quests that give special loot, or it could be actual missions like the foundry or featured eps. usually it is something that is repeatable but always different.
some players level only one character get to the end and have nothing to do to either further their character or further their enjoyment. some also dont consider new episodes end game. they actually want something that is both fun, that they can do every day and get rewards for.
open pvp is the best example as every day it is different and often yields rewards that you cant get from the normal pve. people can do the same thing over and over but each time its slightly different. featured episodes for example can be played once per character and then you have done it. yes you can replay the ep but your doing the exact same story, for pretty much the exact same rewards. after a couple of play through its both boring and pointless.
'end game' is a misleading term. its more like 'max level' game.
To the OP: as you can see, hinting at a lack of end game content and even more so suggesting the need for "raid style" elements results in a lot of hostility. The reason for that is simple. The vast majority of those people who were looking or hoping for a type of endgame as you (or myself for that matter) would like it have left a long time ago.
Now STO is left with what is largely a single player- and story mission oriented playerbase. The thing is, STO never aspired to cater to any other group, and in all likelyhood never will. This is a bit of a self inducing cycle.
At the beginning you have a game that is only comprised of leveling (story/single player) content. The lack of content specifically combined with the complete absence of any end game elements other than maybe arena/cap and hold pvp, inevitably resulted in the "raid-/multiplayer oriented" folks leaving as they hit the level cap very quickly and found nothing else to do.
What has remained are those who focus on enjoying the single player/story aspects of the game. Thus the bulk of all playerbase feedback is asking for more story missions, more "normal" content. Requests for "raids" are shot down with the famous "go back to wow!", "go find your boring grindy stuff elsewhere!", and not to forget the always popular "don't you dare wish for group content, group content = forced grouping! That is satan-incarnate, you have to be out of your mind!".
So, the devs are facing a demand almost exclusively in favor of solo/story missions. Cryptic is paying quite some attention to the fans' demands and thus focuses on this element of the game.
Over the course of the past year it has become more than evident that this is the direction of the game and this direction is here to stay. The devs are doing what they have admittably gotten very good at: creating involving story missions. The weekly episodes, that is what STO does. It does it well, but unfortunately it won't be doing much, if anything, else.
The cycle repeats. Former (or new) players like you return, looking, hoping, for raid style elements and don't find it. Corresponding suggestions are shot down by the overwhelming single player crowd while maintaining/increasing their demand for more story content.
It is only natural that Cryptic keeps focusing on what they know and what they are good at, meaning more single player possibilities.
You might hear some people point to promises about upcoming changes and additions, about fleet actions being the raid content (sorry guys, all they are adding is a way for pre-made groups to start their own fleet action instances, there is no change whatsoever to the "kill X amount of generic ship type Y" structure), or most of all the praises of the User Generated Content and how it will revolutionize STO... (and to quote myself from an other post: ) just like the genesis-engine based exploration system was hyped in the early days. But fact is, STO is what it is. It does a lot of things really well and it will undoubtely keep improving and doing these things even better in the future, but it will not change directions towards anything multiplayer/raid style oriented.
There is a lot more to say about this topic but fact is I have already done so in the past in other topics, with the same reactions found in thisone, plus, it is simply pointless, there are just by far not enough people left here who are interested in any form of endgame content as it is found in other, one could say "proper" or better "pure" MMOs. Not long ago I even considred writing an extensive guideline of how STO could and should introduce challenging and fun (large-)group based encounters. I had to ask myself though, why bother, players and devs alike have no interest in these things, so why bother.
The bottom line is: the weekly episodes, the daily missions that go along with them and in a few months the flood of countless sub-par User Created (single player) quests are the only endgame to be found in STO (outside pvp). And yes, the devs have even stated that the majority of their resources are being focused on the weeklies.
The core question you have to ask yourself is this: at this very time, does STO offer the kind of gameplay you are looking for, in a way, form or shape that you are enjoying and that you consider fun enough to stay subscribed, or not.
For me personally the star trek feel of the game coupled with the excellent graphics, space combat and the Bridge Officer system keep making me want to log in and fly off with my ship and, yeah, well, do stuff. Unfortunately the "do stuff" part is where it gets bumpy. I am with you. There is little that I would love more than to experience big and challenging encounters with a lot (read: more than 5 or 10) players and work together to learn to overcome and defeat whatever may be put in our way there.
STO won't ever offer that but the mentioned positive aspects are good enough for me to every now and then come back and enjoy flying my ship again for a while.
If you do not find enough aspects like these that make you want to play the game in its current state and gameplay direction, then I am afraid you will indeed be better off elsewhere. Me I do not really regret having a lifetime subscription (although I don't know for sure if I would really buy it again if I had the chance) but I had come to accept that STO is not suited for being a "main" MMO as in being "the" one and only online game to play. I did in fact go back to an older one and am getting my multiplayer enjoyment out of thatone.
A huge wall of text filled with largely sad or disappointing content and realizations but I hope it helped painting a clearer picture of STO and its endgame(-future).
The little Endgame they have, STF's Fleetactions and PVP was not improved but only maintained over the last year.
It broke down, they had to fix it. They added 20 new ships and abilities... they had to let Snix do some nerfing.
That isn't improving, that is maintaining.
On the other hand, i ASKED for Weekly Episodes (that was realy a must have and i had the idea a few days after the game launched), i ASKED for UGC (because it just makes so much sense to have the Fanfiction crowd able to deliver their story's in this format)
and now i'm gonna get it!
I want that stuff!
And honestly, Story Missions is the best part of the game they had,
STF, Fleetactions and PVP all kinda suck (for various reasons).... We told them loud and clear!
So they concentrated on improving the part we like the most and left the other stuff to rot.
No reason to improve on features the player base doesn't like.
That is how i see what is happening.
I know, I know - a good portion of us (especially after the SP boost) are sitting at cap waiting for weekly missions, playing dailies, and running PvP.
However, the hopes for endgame in STO should involve more than Fleet Actions or STFs (though some more would be nice):
That said, the upcoming triggers and branching dialogue for Foundry missions means there are some decidedly difficult missions you can create in the Foundry. IN fact, once a stable build gets pushed to Tribble (and we can access it), I'd suggest seeing if you can created a mission similar in complexity to the Cure or Infected or something a bit more engaging and less grindy.
So, the Foundry won't entirely be fire-and-forget easy missions with linear dialogue.