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Please stop de-cloaking us with PvE dialog boxes!!!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
It is so annoying, inappropriate and totally counter to the whole purpose of the cloak and how it is to be used in a tactical situtation/environment.

Its bad enough we cant choose to enter the mission cloaked or not...nor can we transit Sector space under cloak. You migght as well give me a gun, but require I unload the clip right before each encounter :rolleyes:.

I might as well be a sniper, but make me have to stand up and wave before I fire the shot. Come on guys...its just wrong.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm really hoping that the romulans get an upgraded cloaking device on their ships that allows you to scan, transport, and do other non-combat tasks while remaining hidden - would allow for some neat bonus objectives, like finishing an entire mission without being detected.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Telbasta wrote:
    I would allow for some neat bonus objectives, like finishing an entire mission without being detected.

    I think you just answered why they will never do that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    cocoa-jin wrote: »
    It is so annoying, inappropriate and totally counter to the whole purpose of the cloak and how it is to be used in a tactical situtation/environment.

    Its bad enough we cant choose to enter the mission cloaked or not...nor can we transit Sector space under cloak. You migght as well give me a gun, but require I unload the clip right before each encounter :rolleyes:.

    I might as well be a sniper, but make me have to stand up and wave before I fire the shot. Come on guys...its just wrong.

    I am trying to figure out, when does this happen? because I'd swear it happened to me but I thought
    I did something that caused my ship to decloak.

    I haven't tried in a few days but I used to be able to cloak right as the dialogue box comes up, then
    interact with the messages while cloaked. The "enemy" will show up but that's ok because I'm still cloaked.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SpaceFork wrote:
    I think you just answered why they will never do that.

    I dont see why finishing a mission without being detected - at least a romulan story mission - would be a problem. Romulans are sneaky, that's what they do, that's the feel that the faction should have.

    Here's an example:
    -Romulan ship warps into system
    -Mission Objective: Sabotage 5 security satellites, then beam aboard a federation outpost. Various federation patrols cover the area.
    -Bonus Objective: Finish the mission without being detected.

    You have two paths to completing the mission:
    1. You can go in guns blazing, kill all of the federation patrols, blow up the security satellites, take down the alerted outpost's shields, and beam your attack crew onboard, or...
    2. You can stealth in, clandestinely sabotage the satellites without using weapon fire while avoiding getting too close to the federation patrols, then beam your infiltration team aboard the outpost - which hasnt raised its shields because it doesnt see any threat for miles.

    Finishing the bonus objective might reward more diplomacy-style xp (tal'shiar ranking, perhaps?) or give some extra item or xp incentive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    So basically you want to fly from point A to point B and press your F key to finish a mission? Sounds like fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SpaceFork wrote:
    So basically you want to fly from point A to point B and press your F key to finish a mission? Sounds like fun.

    That's really what every stealth mission ever is, though, isn't it?

    The problem exists, though, that there's no way for the ships to detect you, thus eliminating any difficulty a stealth mission could have. Maybe adding a Nebula or two among a couple of ships that periodically use a Tachyon Detection Grid to sweep the area? Would introduce a timing element, which would mean it would have some actual challenge.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    the last time we saw Cryptic make a mission with environmental challenges hazards and strategically placed enemies was that one nebula mission with the exploding gas we had in Beta. it was very hard and a true test of who was smart and who was a button masher, until you realized you could simply fly over the whole mission area and eliminate all risk. Enough people cried that it was too hard that we have the stroll in the park that mission is today.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    They could give mobs patrol routes and some short range cloak detection. Even make ships warp in when u approach a particular point, requiring you to swerve away as fast as possible. A tachyon grid can dictate a corridor your ship has to stay in to avoid being detected (ie, a visible 'wall' grid, rather than the one the nebula uses)

    Probably too complicated for an exploration mission though. A patrol or story episode maybe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SpaceFork wrote:
    the last time we saw Cryptic make a mission with environmental challenges hazards and strategically placed enemies was that one nebula mission with the exploding gas we had in Beta. it was very hard and a true test of who was smart and who was a button masher, until you realized you could simply fly over the whole mission area and eliminate all risk. Enough people cried that it was too hard that we have the stroll in the park that mission is today.

    Good point. I must be watching too much Voyager, I seem to have forgotten that space is three-dimensional.

    Ground stealth missions, though...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SpaceFork wrote:
    the last time we saw Cryptic make a mission with environmental challenges hazards and strategically placed enemies was that one nebula mission with the exploding gas we had in Beta. it was very hard and a true test of who was smart and who was a button masher, until you realized you could simply fly over the whole mission area and eliminate all risk. Enough people cried that it was too hard that we have the stroll in the park that mission is today.

    I know i should say that they could have made that mission optional with an alternate version, but then there would also be people who say they're being excluded. You, know, like with STFs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SpaceFork wrote:
    the last time we saw Cryptic make a mission with environmental challenges hazards and strategically placed enemies was that one nebula mission with the exploding gas we had in Beta. it was very hard and a true test of who was smart and who was a button masher, until you realized you could simply fly over the whole mission area and eliminate all risk. Enough people cried that it was too hard that we have the stroll in the park that mission is today.
    You mean the one at the secret Briar Patch facility?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Tachyon Detection Grid

    'nuf said
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Jexsam wrote: »
    That's really what every stealth mission ever is, though, isn't it?

    The problem exists, though, that there's no way for the ships to detect you, thus eliminating any difficulty a stealth mission could have. Maybe adding a Nebula or two among a couple of ships that periodically use a Tachyon Detection Grid to sweep the area? Would introduce a timing element, which would mean it would have some actual challenge.

    Or just have AI ships use the Scan power from time to time?

    Definitely agree that stealth choices would be great additions to the game; just as more diplomatic options would be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I don't see a problem with being able to cloak and do some missions theres already several types of missions that require scanners only and most combat missions with enemies in them require them being killed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    cocoa-jin wrote: »
    It is so annoying, inappropriate and totally counter to the whole purpose of the cloak and how it is to be used in a tactical situtation/environment.

    Its bad enough we cant choose to enter the mission cloaked or not...nor can we transit Sector space under cloak. You migght as well give me a gun, but require I unload the clip right before each encounter :rolleyes:.

    I might as well be a sniper, but make me have to stand up and wave before I fire the shot. Come on guys...its just wrong.

    You just had to throw in that second metaphor. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SpaceFork wrote:
    So basically you want to fly from point A to point B and press your F key to finish a mission? Sounds like fun.

    The fun is in remaining undetected.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    AZSteel wrote:
    The fun is in remaining undetected.
    Though to actually make this interesting, it requires the mechanic to be made a little more complex and inticrate.

    Not that I am not all for that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Back to topic: Yeah, it's pretty annoying, especially since my bridge officers deem it necessary to repeat the orders every change they get. Yes, I know I have to defend something from a bunch of enemies, but that doesn't mean I throw myself blindly into combat just to keep my BOs faces shut.

    Just let the ship stay cloaked while the bridge officers are babbling on. It's as if the ship's power isn't enough to feed both the com system and the cloaking device at the same time. If players have to be forced out of cloak, make it so their ships drop the cloak when interacting with gameworld objects other than bridge officers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I agree. And just because a mission is done in stealth doesn't mean it eliminates the difficulty. This is only true if the mission maker had no imagination.

    1. Add cloak detectors. Allow us to scan for a path through them. We then need to fly through undetected following a path. If our ship touches thier scanning area we are detected and must fight(perhaps make the fight unwinable so getting through undetected is the objective). The path can be marked with rings you fly through similar to the ones used in the last dividian quest.

    2. Add a minigame that allows us to disable certain cloak detectors to clear areas were their scanning fields overlap. Failing the mini-game exposes you.

    3. Required to also activate a jamin signal on science ships in the area who might also be able to detect you.


    Add these up IMO would equal a fairly challenging mission that requires you NOT to fight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    curzon176 wrote: »
    You just had to throw in that second metaphor. :)

    I really did :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    cocoa-jin wrote: »
    It is so annoying, inappropriate and totally counter to the whole purpose of the cloak and how it is to be used in a tactical situtation/environment.
    Indeed. I've encountered this last night during a Pi Canis raid. Decloaked mid-transit just because my science officer had to say something, triggering the 20 second cooldown and delaying our approach to Starfleet. Seriously... must be a bug.
    Telbasta wrote:
    I'm really hoping that the romulans get an upgraded cloaking device on their ships that [...]
    And why do we need to wait for the Romulans for that?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    It would be fun to do some stealthy missions.
    Actively scanning with your sensors or using the transporters should break your cloak, both of those activities would basically be an "I am here" sign with all the energy use and particles and energy waves coming to and from your ship.

    Talking to a bridge officer, of course, should not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    We've seen a lot of cloaked transporter use in the shows, though.

    What would really be interesting in STO would be something in-between absolute visibility and absolute invisibility. Hints that a cloaked ship is present. Sensor echoes. A rough estimate on where a cloaked ship may hide, so that players can focus their counter-measures on said area.

    http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloaking_device#Penetrating_the_cloak
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Valias wrote:
    We've seen a lot of cloaked transporter use in the shows, though.

    What would really be interesting in STO would be something in-between absolute visibility and absolute invisibility. Hints that a cloaked ship is present. Sensor echoes. A rough estimate on where a cloaked ship may hide, so that players can focus their counter-measures on said area.

    http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloaking_device#Penetrating_the_cloak

    Yes we have.
    I think for game purposes, it should break the cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    nileight wrote: »
    Yes we have.
    I think for game purposes, it should break the cloak.

    I personally can't agree with this. For the purpose of making a Romulan stealth mission feel right, the player would need to be able to stay hidden throughout the whole mission. Per some of the novels, the Romulans were given to sending dozens of cloaked ships all about the galaxy to monitor their neighbors in order to gauge their strengths in preparation for the Empire's emergence from their self imposed isolation. In that vein, an extended series of missions for Romulans ought to involve infiltrating Federation and KDF installations. How does a Romulan player ship get an operative onto K-7 if their transporters break the cloak?

    "If knowledge is power, then to be unknown, it to be unconquerable."
    -unnamed Romulan leader, ST:BotF
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I personally can't agree with this. For the purpose of making a Romulan stealth mission feel right, the player would need to be able to stay hidden throughout the whole mission. Per some of the novels, the Romulans were given to sending dozens of cloaked ships all about the galaxy to monitor their neighbors in order to gauge their strengths in preparation for the Empire's emergence from their self imposed isolation. In that vein, an extended series of missions for Romulans ought to involve infiltrating Federation and KDF installations. How does a Romulan player ship get an operative onto K-7 if their transporters break the cloak?

    "If knowledge is power, then to be unknown, it to be unconquerable."
    -unnamed Romulan leader, ST:BotF

    If a starship is actively using it's sensors and beaming people up and down, they are going to be using more power, emitting all kinds of em radiation, and leaving particle traces all over the place.
    I think that would break the cloak.
    There could be a mission or story element that would be a work around, like the fed mission where you fly near certain asteroids that hides your energy signature and helps you avoid enemy patrols.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I personally can't agree with this. For the purpose of making a Romulan stealth mission feel right, the player would need to be able to stay hidden throughout the whole mission. Per some of the novels, the Romulans were given to sending dozens of cloaked ships all about the galaxy to monitor their neighbors in order to gauge their strengths in preparation for the Empire's emergence from their self imposed isolation. In that vein, an extended series of missions for Romulans ought to involve infiltrating Federation and KDF installations. How does a Romulan player ship get an operative onto K-7 if their transporters break the cloak?

    "If knowledge is power, then to be unknown, it to be unconquerable."
    -unnamed Romulan leader, ST:BotF

    Novels are not canon. At all. Ever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    That said, it is canon that transporting stuff does not "break" the cloak as well. At best it hints at something being wrong, causing people to look for stuff. Hence my idea of something in-between visibility and invisibility.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Canon is really bs anyway.
    The writers would break it anytime they wanted to drive whatever story they were telling.

    Maybe the introduction of a new mini game, where you have to adjust the cloak to compensate, would be a good middle ground.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    nileight wrote: »
    Maybe the introduction of a new mini game, where you have to adjust the cloak to compensate, would be a good middle ground.
    And/or a minigame where someone who wants to find a cloaked ship has to adjust his sensors. Like Data did in "Unification" to detect the distorted echoes of Romulan Warbirds in the tachyon residue clouds. I generally like this idea.
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