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No to "away teams" in space.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I would like to bring up something I saw in the "Ask Cryptic"

Q: Direphoenix: Is there any chance we can separate Rank from Skill Level and add in a(n optional) larger-scope "Admiral/General Game" for those that want to be Admirals or Generals?

A: We have discussed and have plans to make Fleet Admiral (level 61) add a special type of gameplay where you can begin to build away teams in space (i.e. other ships that you command). No firm details yet, but we do want to make Fleet Admiral offer new types of gameplay.



I don't like the idea of pets on space at all. I can live with it on the ground portion of the game, but in space is too much.

Half of the missions on the ground can be completed w/o a single BO, and yet they're required.

A fairly good chunk of the space missions require no other ship.

To be blunt, some of us hate pets. I can understand a class where it's strength may be pets (carriers anyone?) , but making all of us have pets when we reach a higher rank is ridiculous.

So, if you, like me, hate pets, and just suffer w/ the BO's because it makes sense for the most part, then please sign this to let the dev's know that this mechanic shouldn't be forced on all of us.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I would like to bring up something I saw in the "Ask Cryptic"

    Q: Direphoenix: Is there any chance we can separate Rank from Skill Level and add in a(n optional) larger-scope "Admiral/General Game" for those that want to be Admirals or Generals?

    A: We have discussed and have plans to make Fleet Admiral (level 61) add a special type of gameplay where you can begin to build away teams in space (i.e. other ships that you command). No firm details yet, but we do want to make Fleet Admiral offer new types of gameplay.



    I don't like the idea of pets on space at all. I can live with it on the ground portion of the game, but in space is too much.

    Half of the missions on the ground can be completed w/o a single BO, and yet they're required.

    A fairly good chunk of the space missions require no other ship.

    To be blunt, some of us hate pets. I can understand a class where it's strength may be pets (carriers anyone?) , but making all of us have pets when we reach a higher rank is ridiculous.

    So, if you, like me, hate pets, and just suffer w/ the BO's because it makes sense for the most part, then please sign this to let the dev's know that this mechanic shouldn't be forced on all of us.


    read carefully and even await the future implementation: it was said "... where you CAN begin to build ..." and not "MUST". It is far too early to judge about current plans.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Honestly, space pets could be a pretty awesome idea.

    Admirals command fleet, not ships. Would be only justice that finally we have the opportunity to send hundreds of anonymous federal dudes meet their doom just on a whim.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Some of us don't think space pets would be awesome.

    I would rather forgo having an admiral rank at all. For the most part, you'd think admirals wouldn't be flying around the galaxy, but administrating from a SB.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I think being able to control a 'fleet' of non-player ships would be awesome.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Personally, I would love this.

    I can understand how some players might not be as in love with the idea as I so it needs to be OPTIONAL so that we can all get from the game what we like from it. I don't recall the command of multiple vessels as being a regular fixture in Star Trek so that argument can be made as well.

    However, if missions are scalable to "Admiral" and "Normal" play, then I see no reason to not add this technology to increase the options that we're given in how we approach the game. In that way, those of us that want this kind of experience can get it without impacting those that do not :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Some of us don't think space pets would be awesome.

    I would rather forgo having an admiral rank at all. For the most part, you'd think admirals wouldn't be flying around the galaxy, but administrating from a SB.

    And what would you say if, as an Admiral, you would take one of the officers under your command as well as one of the ships in your hangar (of which you likely have quite a few, and go compete a mission just using bridge officers? It would make teaming with lower ranked fleet members more interesting, to say the least.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I like the idea. It makes the prospect of epic battles like Wolf 359 possible in STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Some of us don't think space pets would be awesome.

    I would rather forgo having an admiral rank at all. For the most part, you'd think admirals wouldn't be flying around the galaxy, but administrating from a SB.

    But at the same time it could also be said that an Admiral would take charge of a group of ships in order to accomplish a mission as well. A bad choice because of the outcome, but the Battle of Wolf 359 is an example of an Admiral in the field leading numerous ships. Though yes, if there was a way to redress the ranks so that an Admiral was more of a unique rank and not something every top tier player had, that would feel a little more realistic. Off hand though the only way I could see doing that would be for a fleet leader to be an admiral, and that would just devolve into a mess of elitism.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Some of us don't think space pets would be awesome.

    I would rather forgo having an admiral rank at all. For the most part, you'd think admirals wouldn't be flying around the galaxy, but administrating from a SB.

    And some of us do.

    To be quite honest, I've seen Player Commanded NPC Fleets coming since I was in closed beta. It's something that I personally, have been looking forward to. Hopefully they can work on the AI somewhat so we don't end up with our NPC allies faceplanting themselves on asteroids and the like. But commanding a fleet of Starships from my flagship sounds like a ton of fun to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I'm a fan of it as long as it isn't every mission at FA.

    And given that away team sizes are variable, they can certainly use that tech in a way so that some missions use "space away teams" and some don't.

    But I think it will be fun when they do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Addams wrote:
    Honestly, space pets could be a pretty awesome idea.

    Admirals command fleet, not ships. Would be only justice that finally we have the opportunity to send hundreds of anonymous federal dudes meet their doom just on a whim.

    Admirals also generally sit at a desk. Is that what you want? Your character just sits at a desk at ESD looking at dots on a map?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I tend to gravitate towards pet use, so I'm basically a fan of them. But I'm with the OP for the reasons stated, what's up with the gazillion Admirals zapping around in space, it's not like it is untrekky, it's un-anything but the most bizarre novels encountered.

    Oh sure there is the crew, just need to promote all of them as well, so we can take turns being the whipping boy of the day, in an absolute lack of any chain of command. Then the brass have to take it out on themselves you see.

    Bottom red line, gladly passing the chance for pet use, in favour of a demotion, or whatever path there is out of this corner surrounded by oceans of brass paint. :p

    ---
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Some of us don't think space pets would be awesome.

    I would rather forgo having an admiral rank at all. For the most part, you'd think admirals wouldn't be flying around the galaxy, but administrating from a SB.

    Not really. Desk jobs are few and far between. Admirals still see duty commanding fleets. I can see where you warp into a sector and are given the option to pick up to 8-tier points of ships (assuming you own them).

    What I mean is we have this:
    T1 = 1 point
    T2 = 2 points
    T3 = 3 points
    T4 = 4 points
    T5 = NOT ELIGIBLE

    So if you are given 8 tier points to choose from, you can take 2 T4s; or you can take a T4, a T3, and a T1; or you can take 8 T1s, etc. Again assuming you own those ships to begin with.

    If this is the direction they are headed, then I'm all for it. It would give me a reason to buy the NX if I'm going to see it as a pet in every engagement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Admirals also generally sit at a desk. Is that what you want? Your character just sits at a desk at ESD looking at dots on a map?

    No, the implications is that admiral should not be, and should never have been, a rank in this game. Thats a topic for another thread though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Justa_Bri wrote:
    And what would you say if, as an Admiral, you would take one of the officers under your command as well as one of the ships in your hangar (of which you likely have quite a few, and go compete a mission just using bridge officers? It would make teaming with lower ranked fleet members more interesting, to say the least.

    I would still say I don't want it. I want my ship one ship and it's crew and thats all. I don't want a fleet under my command. Like I said, I don't even like that I have to drag my BO's around in non-combat ground missions. But I'm not asking for removal of that mechanic. I just don't want to be forced into an enviroment where everyone has to have a bunch of ships around themselves to solo content.

    There is no "cool factor" in this concept for me. I really am not into pets at all. I'm not out to kill the cool for you guys, i just don't want it required to be a good player. My ST "fantasy" never had me controlling more than one ship. I'm good with upgrading my sovvy, or star cruiser.


    Btw @ the person i quoted. I like your pic :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    No, the implications is that admiral should not be, and should never have been, a rank in this game. Thats a topic for another thread though.

    Heh, people still complaining about admirals is funny. Put on Captain pips and title, and use that imagination to see/hear Captain instead of Admiral. They finally bring back up the Admiral/fleet mechanic they talked about way back in beta and people are trying to shoot it down without having ANY idea of what it is or how it might be implemented.... relax and lets see where they run with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    Heh, people still complaining about admirals is funny. Put on Captain pips and title, and use that imagination to see/hear Captain instead of Admiral. They finally bring back up the Admiral/fleet mechanic they talked about way back in beta and people are trying to shoot it down without having ANY idea of what it is or how it might be implemented.... relax and lets see where they run with it.

    I do put on the 4 pips on my toon and use the captain title. I just agree with others that the nonsense of being an admiral opens an annoying can of worms.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    i love the idea of being able to control a fleet.

    but remember this is most likely going to be a new type of gameplay. there is no evidence that you either

    1) have to use pets, or that it will be forced on you in anyway

    2) would even be usable in the normal game.

    this fleet admiral thing might be limited to a sector devoted to open pvp or a new type of mission or anything. we simply dont know. its pointless complaining about something when we have no idea how it will work yet. its like saying they should remove all crafting, pvp and STF because you dont like it. it will almost certainly be optional.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Im not with or against this 'space pets' feature until i see how its implemented.

    But putting that aside, if this issue is to be discussed, somewhere or another the issue of us all being able to make admiral rank will come up. It is not avoidable. That we should or should not have admiral rank in this game will be one of the factors in argument about the space pets.


    Also look at this from another point of view. Namely, the KDF side. Generals in KDF lead from the front (well, most of them anyway). This is in contrast to admirals in Starfleet, of whom the majority hold desk jobs or station assignments. If i consider a Klingon general, i fully expect to see him or her commanding a fleet. Since we should have equality, feds should get the feature too.

    So using the reason 'desk-job admirals' isnt very good.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I agree with a wait and see view for how it'll work. Though now is the time, while the idea is being formed, to influence the devs on how we want it to work, and possibly effect us. I realize that there is the cool factor, but I want the dev's to know, some of us don't like it. In the end I believe the mechanic, and game in general, will be better for a good balance between these options.

    It should be set up like that at the beginning, instead of horrible balance issues after implementation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    i love the idea of being able to control a fleet.

    but remember this is most likely going to be a new type of gameplay. there is no evidence that you either

    1) have to use pets, or that it will be forced on you in anyway

    2) would even be usable in the normal game.

    this fleet admiral thing might be limited to a sector devoted to open pvp or a new type of mission or anything. we simply dont know. its pointless complaining about something when we have no idea how it will work yet. its like saying they should remove all crafting, pvp and STF because you dont like it. it will almost certainly be optional.

    All of this would be a moot point if Cryptic would actually choose a direction for this game instead of adding every minor idea given in the forums, thereby driving customers away in droves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Certainly, if this happens, it is a significant different style of gameplay and it shouldn't be "forced" on anyone. But I definitely like the idea of a more strategic gameplay mode, where you are commanding an actual fleet.

    At least then the title "Fleet Admiral" means something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    As Captain or Admiral, you should have people under your command. You may not like "pets" but I think one of the bright points of Star Trek Online is the ways to customize your character and I see the bridge officers and ships as extensions of my own character. I think as a Fleet Admiral being able to command a small Fleet of maybe 2 other ships with your ship would be nice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I have no problem with this as an option, like some kind of fleet command specialisation. By the same token, I want the option to beam down to away missions with a team consisting of purely human-controlled team mates with no AI in tow.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    More interesting gameplay choices are always a good thing.

    Im interested to see if this makes past the conception stage and what they come up with.

    I see at least one connection here too. Gozer has already stated that you will continue to acquire the new borg sets after you have already completed the mission for outfitting your other ships with. I don't really see any justification other then outftting your "fleet" with better gear.

    It could of course totally bomb and be a huge time and energy sink for the team as well, whatever the case I am curious.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    All of this would be a moot point if Cryptic would actually choose a direction for this game instead of adding every minor idea given in the forums, thereby driving customers away in droves.

    Agreed, I really wish they'd pick a direction too. I think they're on that knife edge of maybe being to flimsy to the wants of the players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    All of this would be a moot point if Cryptic would actually choose a direction for this game instead of adding every minor idea given in the forums, thereby driving customers away in droves.

    im sorry you feel that way, and i disagree with every word you just said.

    i see a pretty strong direction,

    i know that 99% of the ideas on this forum never see the light of day, and the ones that are being used are getting massive approval (weekly eps, sector space revamp, klingon improvements, UGC)

    and we both know that the customers being driven away in droves is nothing more than a complete guess based on no facts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The point is that the need to do something to change gameplay and increase the impact of missions at VA and above. As it is now, the missions you do as a Lieutenant are no different than the missions you do as a VA. There is no sense of growth, evolution or increased ability.

    Every time Dstahl has mentioned changing one of your BOs to a playable captain, I have jumped right in the thread or the Ask Cryptic to counter-propose this idea. I'm not a fan of multiple characters and the scripted mission content from Captain onwards in STO is quite light. Why add another character, only to experience the most problematic portion of the game?

    STO needs some growth and evolution. Adding player Admiral managed fleets will go a long way towards this. Suddenly new missions types are opened up. You're not just killing 5 ships, but maybe stalling an invasion force. New dailies could involve assigning the captains/ships in your fleets to missions that happen off screen.

    Dstahl has mentioned looking for ways to have ship type/crew affect gameplay more. Since I fly lightly crewed escorts, maybe I make sure to include a Galaxy class ship in my fleet, so I can do major colony evacuation missions or something like that. Another player who likes to tank or buff could have a small fleet of escorts to do DPS for them.

    This is an important step to open up new gameplay elements in STO. Ranking up should not just be about increased weapon slots. There needs to be something more tangible, and engaging, as your character grows.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Commanding a fleet of ships as an Admiral seems interesting, but raises lots of questions, like what does 'command' mean?

    I can generate a fleet of ships with Photonic Fleet, but I have no ability to command them. So a whole new interface would be needed...

    But I would say this is not the kind of thing we'll see anytime soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I actually like the idea of commanding a small fleet of pets. I think it would be cool if were able to promote our Boffs to captain to take command of the other ships. Even if it works mostly the same as the Photonic Fleet power. Maybe just add a fire on my mark command, and some kind of formation command.

    As far as all the admirals running around, I look at it this way. STO is about me. I'm the one who fought the Borg on the Khitomer and Vega colony. I'm the one that Admiral Quinn noticed. I'm the ONLY one this happened to in my mind, when I'm playing. I'm the one that is more awesome than everyone else, and I'm shooting through the ranks because of my extreme awesomeness. Nobody else. In fact, I'm so freakin' awesome that Starfleet can't afford to put me behind a desk. I understand that in reality every RL player went through this, but in my imagination it's just my toon. This makes way more sense to me than having 100,000 admirals running around.
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