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Serious thread and a Proposal on Rewards for Weekly Episodes - Dstahl please read!
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
DStahl,
Okay, So I know you are working on adding in Deferi Sector Daily missions for VA that will give emblems as a reward instead of skill points. Bravo for that.
Now I have a proposal to around how to help VAs (or max level players) get something more than just a unique consumable uncommon reward, BoFF Points and Merits for doing Weekly Episodes. (Being completely honest, thats not too shabby but there should be some form of progression for max level characters doing these episodes)
As of right now, outside of entertainment value, there is not a lot of motivation for a VA to do the weekly episodes with the exception of the said unique reward and I think there is a solution that will benefit ALL including the Devs programming cycles and time invested and player investment..
So right now Dstahl you have your development team coming up with a way to implement Daily missions for VA, adding complexity and lengthening your time to implement any new daily missions for the weekly series in the long run, because you effectively have to do a few implementation steps "twice". Once for non-max level players and once for Max level players (reward implementation).
Then we look at the weekly episode itself and the lack of max level reward and progression there.
We could:
A.) Request that each episode have a VA only version to it and that VA-only version would have either Emblem or Marks of "whatever deemed appropriate" rewards for VA players
Solution A has the pro of getting Episodes to have better rewards and progression for max level players which will always be a subset (though a large one) of your playerbase. It has the pro of "tried and true" practices such as the B'Tran VA Missions so we know its' technically feasible.
Solution A has the cons of lengthening and doubling your Weekly Episode reward implementation tasks, essentially, you have to create two reward tables, two mission script offers from the NPCs and two entries in your missions database for each episode. One for Max Level Players and one for non-max level players. To me, this is BIG offset.
Try something new and different. Propose that we just simply add say an Emblem or two to each episode as a reward. Simple as that. No Seperate VA Missions, just an addition of an Emblem reward. The reward could be "Marks" or it could be Emblems but lets take the "worst case scenario" in this picture and talk about Emblems.
"WHOA!" you say, "hold on, lets look at the implications of that".... yes, lets.
Solution B has the cons of proliferating Emblems or marks of some sort to low level players "early" in their leveling. Lets take a look at that "con" first.
The Number of Emblems (taking that example) that can be earned for non-max players and for max players doesn't differ between them. In fact, the Max Level players can earn those rewards faster since they have access to other daily missions that gives them Emblems. Max Level players can spend those Emblems faster since they are already max level. So in th end max level players still are not being put into a disadvantage over players on their way up to max. And while non-max level players are getting the ability to earn emblems early, Max level players are earning that same amount of Emblems at the same time as non-max level players. There is "balance" as the Deferi say.
And the number of emblems as a "con"? Lets say worse case scenario we hand out 2 Emblems per episode. 6 Episodes per series and let's say you are doing 10 series. (thats 60 weeks which is a fully year plus some and thats not counting weekly breaks between series). So that is 60 episodes x 2 Emblems. Thats 120 Emblems earned over the course of more than a year. No self-respecting Captain will take more than a year to level to max level and so you can expect to have a max level player to have a max of 120 Emblems from Episode weeklys ready to spend once they hit max level. Consider that Starships can run as high as 300 Emblems this doesn't seem like too much of a Con or a proliferation of Emblems.
Ways to mitigate this "con"?
What are the pros for Solution B?
Dstahl please review this proposal I believe it has merit and I would like to hear if you think so or if Its a complete crock of TRIBBLE. Either way, some sort of response would be very much appreciate.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
P.S.: This does not detract in any way from the unique reward being earned per episode/series. Those seem really cool and I like them! but there doesnt' seem to be much differentiation between Non-max and max player rewards and we have to acknowledge that max level players are playing this for end game which should be supported.
Okay, So I know you are working on adding in Deferi Sector Daily missions for VA that will give emblems as a reward instead of skill points. Bravo for that.
Now I have a proposal to around how to help VAs (or max level players) get something more than just a unique consumable uncommon reward, BoFF Points and Merits for doing Weekly Episodes. (Being completely honest, thats not too shabby but there should be some form of progression for max level characters doing these episodes)
As of right now, outside of entertainment value, there is not a lot of motivation for a VA to do the weekly episodes with the exception of the said unique reward and I think there is a solution that will benefit ALL including the Devs programming cycles and time invested and player investment..
So right now Dstahl you have your development team coming up with a way to implement Daily missions for VA, adding complexity and lengthening your time to implement any new daily missions for the weekly series in the long run, because you effectively have to do a few implementation steps "twice". Once for non-max level players and once for Max level players (reward implementation).
Then we look at the weekly episode itself and the lack of max level reward and progression there.
We could:
A.) Request that each episode have a VA only version to it and that VA-only version would have either Emblem or Marks of "whatever deemed appropriate" rewards for VA players
Solution A has the pro of getting Episodes to have better rewards and progression for max level players which will always be a subset (though a large one) of your playerbase. It has the pro of "tried and true" practices such as the B'Tran VA Missions so we know its' technically feasible.
Solution A has the cons of lengthening and doubling your Weekly Episode reward implementation tasks, essentially, you have to create two reward tables, two mission script offers from the NPCs and two entries in your missions database for each episode. One for Max Level Players and one for non-max level players. To me, this is BIG offset.
Try something new and different. Propose that we just simply add say an Emblem or two to each episode as a reward. Simple as that. No Seperate VA Missions, just an addition of an Emblem reward. The reward could be "Marks" or it could be Emblems but lets take the "worst case scenario" in this picture and talk about Emblems."WHOA!" you say, "hold on, lets look at the implications of that".... yes, lets.
Solution B has the cons of proliferating Emblems or marks of some sort to low level players "early" in their leveling. Lets take a look at that "con" first.
The Number of Emblems (taking that example) that can be earned for non-max players and for max players doesn't differ between them. In fact, the Max Level players can earn those rewards faster since they have access to other daily missions that gives them Emblems. Max Level players can spend those Emblems faster since they are already max level. So in th end max level players still are not being put into a disadvantage over players on their way up to max. And while non-max level players are getting the ability to earn emblems early, Max level players are earning that same amount of Emblems at the same time as non-max level players. There is "balance" as the Deferi say.
And the number of emblems as a "con"? Lets say worse case scenario we hand out 2 Emblems per episode. 6 Episodes per series and let's say you are doing 10 series. (thats 60 weeks which is a fully year plus some and thats not counting weekly breaks between series). So that is 60 episodes x 2 Emblems. Thats 120 Emblems earned over the course of more than a year. No self-respecting Captain will take more than a year to level to max level and so you can expect to have a max level player to have a max of 120 Emblems from Episode weeklys ready to spend once they hit max level. Consider that Starships can run as high as 300 Emblems this doesn't seem like too much of a Con or a proliferation of Emblems.
Ways to mitigate this "con"?
- One way is to reduce the Emblem reward per Episode to 1.
- Another way is to offer Marks of some type instead of Emblems. Don't develop a new mark, use one of the many that we have.
- Make Marks or Emblem rewards an "choice" for a mission reward, just like you do with items, so that the choice is either Skill points (for non-max level players) or an Emblem/Marks (for max level players). Not sure if you need new tech to do this but this seems like the best way to mitigate any proliferation issue.
What are the pros for Solution B?
- You have an easy to implement way of adjusting the rewards of weekly episodes for all players of any level
- Non-Max Level players get Emblems early on in their career which motivates them to keep leveling their characters/alts to max level because they know they have a reward for their progression waiting for them in the end. To me this particular point is going to increase your replayability and the better your replayability the more subs stay active.
- Max Level players get their Emblem or Marks rewards and progression, further incentivising them to play the Weekly Episodes intead of "just" Boff Points and Merits (and a cool unique consumable).
- Your Implementations tasks for this solution B is reduced to one set of reward tables, one set of weekly episode missions, one set of scripts and one entry in the missions database allow your devs to work on bigger and better things with their valuable time. (this is the biggest one for me)
- Keep the daily missions tied to the weekly series separate with their VA specific daily missions. Adding Emblems or Marks to Daily missions that can be done by non-max level would encourage proliferation to too high a degree.
- Essentially, even with the mitigations listed above everyone is happy.
Dstahl please review this proposal I believe it has merit and I would like to hear if you think so or if Its a complete crock of TRIBBLE. Either way, some sort of response would be very much appreciate.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
P.S.: This does not detract in any way from the unique reward being earned per episode/series. Those seem really cool and I like them! but there doesnt' seem to be much differentiation between Non-max and max player rewards and we have to acknowledge that max level players are playing this for end game which should be supported.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I also think this game could benefit from areas having unique weapon "skin" drops. other games do this and it keeps all areas busy farming for a unique weapon skin. for example on guild wars i farmed for an Emerald blade. its stats were no different from any otehr standard longsword but its the uniqueness that keeps people playing together and farming for unique skins in dungeons or areas. the same could be implemented here. A chance to get a cardassian phaser skin. in hirogen areas a hirogen type weapon and so on. make them drop very rarely. it will give people the bragging rights they want and make the exchange more viable. make them drop very rarely though. took me 40+ goes to get my emerald blade from the chest. too much and its not rare and over saturated. I think this will also benefit as people like to have different skins too. Keep it as the same stats as a normal mk x or xi or xii purple. jsut a different skin.
You did. At least twice that I can remember, though most of yesterday is still pretty fuzzy, like when you eat too much ice cream and your brain freezes. Might have something to do with all those Breen that mocked my characters.
:P
You did - even answering the question in-game and on the FAQ.
Thanks Dstrahl for the response.
Edit:
Okay I saw this in the FAQ:
This speaks to the Aid the Deferi Dailys.
My proposal talks to adding Embelms/Marks rewards to the Individual Episode Missions themselves, such as Cold Call, etc.
Is this covered in the above statement, Dsthal? Unless I am missing something in the FAQ.
Please dont reply to threads with your name in the title, or you'll just encourage everyone to do it to try to get your attention.
If you read carefully, I am not convinced that we are talking about the same proposed issue. The referenced FAQ talks about the Daily missions. This proposal talks about the Episodic Weekly itself, such as Cold Call, also getting an Emblem/Marks reward.
P.S. DStahl has always said that his motto is for the dev team to be open and communicative with the forum folk, where possible. Notice I did not stamp my feet or demand that I get a response and threaten to leave when my lifetime subscription runs out...
So, are you asking DStahl and staff to stop communicating with the forum community?
I don't think there's any intention to add emblems to regular missions (such as the Cold Call). I think they are fine when obtained through daily missions (because they are repeatable) and have a countdown to prevent abuse. The whole point of them was to give people something to do at end-game. If they could earn them earlier though regular missions, then there'd be less to do when you hit VA.
In my experience I'm finding it harder to think of reasons to play my VA character now I have got my BOffs all nice gear through dailies and pimped out my ship with gear from dailies.
Thats what I think that Dstahl and the dev teams are also thinking at this point.
To that point what is the 'risk/reward' of doing the Weekly episodes for VA/Max Level then? A unique consumable reward (green/uncommon), Boff points and starfleet merits?
All gameplay content (non-social content) should always be judged in the crucible of Risk vs Reward.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the weekly episode content, and will continue doing it even if their are no rewards, but if they want to make an impact on a larger gaming community than the players that are already here (expanding the player base) then they need to make these Weekly Episodes make more sense to VA/Max-Level Captains.
My two cents.
Of course not. I'm asking him not to reply to threads where people post his name in the title, because that only encourages more of that kind of behavior. Eventually it degenerates into "Hey Dstahl, look here!".
True you get the unique reward, but what the proposal was originally talking about was having the episodic content actually help you with "progression" at End Game, hence the Emblem/Marks reward.
I get what you are saying, I get what Galactrix is saying. I get what the devs are saying.
I think there is an opportunity here with Emblems or Marks. Think about it... 120 Emblems over the course of more than a year is not that much of an increase compared to all the Emblem grinding you can do today with the current Daily missions. So it doesn't mean you are going to be all tricked out in purple Mark XI gear by the time you get to VA-Max level.
It just means you are going to get some more "help" along the way.
I also think that looking at Dstahl's response to my proposal I ran into the problem of TL/DR. My proposal was long (too long) because I wanted to make sure he saw that I thought through the implications and properly justified the gaming mechanic behind it. I think he skimmed, thought it was proposing one thing, responded to it and never came back to under that I was asking for something different.
Either way, when they add the Emblem rewards to the Daily Missions and do or do not add Emblem rewards to the Episodic missions we will know for sure.
I used the subject line to get his attention in order to get the seed of the idea in his mind for future changes, yes.
At the same time I also think that my TL/DR proposal shows that I didn't waste the use of "Hey Dsthal, look here" without something that I spent a lot of time both thinking about and thinking through as well. Basically, I "earned" it and didn't just put into the context of the message: "give us more ships, kthxbai".
However, I will go back and edit the topic if it makes you feel better.