test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Balance PVE?
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I feel that Cryptic has done a nice job in balancing PvP play, but this has been done at the expence of PVE balance. Unless you're running an escort, taking down enemy ships take forever, and unless you're running a cruiser you risk beeing one-shotted by ships pumping out HYTs quicker than your resists can cope with...
Doing b'tran enemy confrontations on Elite:
- Cruiser - I never get killed, but it takes forever to complete mission.
- Sci Ship - I sometimes get killed, and it takes forever to complete mission.
- Escort - I get killed a lot, but the mission does NOT take forever to complete.
imo there are 3 high priority changes that needs to be done to NPC ships:
- Nerf HYT so one-shotting is not possible (having 4 quantums critting at 16000 each tossed at me means i'm dead even before the 4th hits me... especially when done twice in 30 seconds)
- Give NPCs global cooldown on abilities! Beeing hit by something, countering it, and beeing hit by it a second time 2 seconds later is just silly... (HYT, Borg Shield Neutralizer and more)
- Reduce NPC hull/shield strength to make battles shorter. What is the strength of a Nicor Cruiser? something like 40,000 shield and 100,000 hull?
Do NOT reduce the damage of the NPC, as this would make the battles easier! Just reduce the amount of shield/hull to make the battles shorter! AND remove the one-shotting abilities.
Doing b'tran enemy confrontations on Elite:
- Cruiser - I never get killed, but it takes forever to complete mission.
- Sci Ship - I sometimes get killed, and it takes forever to complete mission.
- Escort - I get killed a lot, but the mission does NOT take forever to complete.
imo there are 3 high priority changes that needs to be done to NPC ships:
- Nerf HYT so one-shotting is not possible (having 4 quantums critting at 16000 each tossed at me means i'm dead even before the 4th hits me... especially when done twice in 30 seconds)
- Give NPCs global cooldown on abilities! Beeing hit by something, countering it, and beeing hit by it a second time 2 seconds later is just silly... (HYT, Borg Shield Neutralizer and more)
- Reduce NPC hull/shield strength to make battles shorter. What is the strength of a Nicor Cruiser? something like 40,000 shield and 100,000 hull?
Do NOT reduce the damage of the NPC, as this would make the battles easier! Just reduce the amount of shield/hull to make the battles shorter! AND remove the one-shotting abilities.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
All in all I fail to see the "balance" issues you seem to think exist. At Elite difficulty such missions should play out as you have described for each vessel as you described.
If it is too hard try dropping to advanced or adjusting your ship loadouts.
If I get hit with a 4-5 torpedo salvo with full shields on and full hull, I will be taken down to 0 shields and 25% hull. No other attacks hitting me. So I'm wondering if it's WAI that NPC torpedos seem to do full damage to shields when the torpedos "we" fire basically just amuse shields? Or is there a special "salvo" power I'm not aware off that would allow "us" to also decimate shields with torpedos?
(I have learned to cope by becoming pretty adept at manoeuvring to stay away from their frontal attacks, as well as having several different heals hotkey'd and ready to deploy, sometimes preemptively. But I still wonder if this is WAI..)
Is it? I never said so.
What i say is:
1. You risk beeing one-shotted. You really can't defend that as a feature?
2. Battles take too long unless you run an escort.
Seriously? You don't see beeing able to one-shot someone as a tad OP? You like to go into battle knowing that luck will decide the outcome?
I really disagree that this is the way it's supposed to play out! I say that when you go into a battle with a good build and a good captain you should always have a chance to pull through without dying! If you die once in a mission, the mission FAILED! Even though you magically get a new life and a new ship!You were killed, you lost!
Play on adsvanced? Not interrested. If i can't do it on elite i'd rather spend my time doing something other than sto. but that's just me.
BTW:
Do you have any idea how arrogant you sounded when you suggested adjusting my loadout? Do you think i hit RA today? Do you think a combination of boffs/weaps/equipment/power/skills exists that i've not tried? (on my main that is (science officer)) I've spent several hours a day for months tweaking my build... and you rush in insinuating it's just something i threw together at random? I'm deeply offended, sir.
I believe what others have been trying to point out is that while being one-shotted is definitely a possibility, with skill and the right powers it can be avoided.
Or stated differently, yes, the enemies have the ability to one-shot an escort on elite, but you (should) have the ability to avoid being the target of the shot if you play an escort on elite.
I fly a sci-ship. Enemy ships often fire HYTs from both ends. I fin it completely unrealistic that i should be able to stay within the 90' blind-spot for the entire match. This would be a remarkable feat even if flying a BOP, which i don't... In addition, to be able to wear down your enemies in a sci ship you really have to face towards your enemy very often to deploy sci powers.
I can survive by hitting BFI before i'm hit. This means i have to keep a distance of at least 1-2km to be able to react to it, and the way NPC escorts fly means they try keep the distance at 0km, this means you have to face the wrong way most of the fight if you want to have time to hit BFI. Another thing is the CD on BFI is wayyyy longer than the HYT cd.
Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of elite fighting, species like the Borg i find to be well balanced (except for the Shield Neutralizer not having a CD, which really sucks when you fly a sci-ship and rely on your shields to stay alive. Anyhow, this can be avoided with skill and is mostly an annoying time-consuming feature). Most other fights are also well balanced, but every now and then, in fights where i in retrospect can't see how i could have done anything better, i find myself beeing HYTed with BFI on cd and is insta-killed...
I could ofc swap out my RSP for Aux to D, but i believe most people will agree that RSP is a far more useful skill in most situations.
At what point does the phrase , "If it is too hard try dropping to advanced or adjusting your ship loadouts" hit upon being arragant or insinuate that you are not a good player? Its a simple piece of common advice that you are obviously to childish to accept gracciuosly and without malice.
Given this new look into you mentality and character all I can say is stop acting like a spoiled little ***** and grow-up.
Get over yourself.
And no, Roach isn't being arrogant. He is good. Read some of his tactical advice posts, you might even improve a little bit, without meaning to. Face him and a few others here in PvP, and you will find out you are probably not as "uber" as you think.
And FYI - I fly an Assault Cruiser, routinely in elite, and take down pretty much anything thrown at me in suitable time frames solo. Fleet wise, we will tear through mobs like a hungry man after steak and a beer. I have yet to even see one of our team die in elite with a 5 man run.
If your attention span is 30 seconds, in which you expect to beat any mission, get blue loot drops, and zero ship damage, then you are being a bit unrealistic. It is you that needs to adjust, not the game. I personally like it the difficulty slider the way it is.
Thanks for the support, but I'm only average at pvp now.
Though sometimes I do pretty good.:D
LOL - and other times I get my hoop handed to me. Ask Victory275, him and Bolo have done it a few times.
Its the nature of the beast to accept deafeat from time to time.
Please don't twist my words. My problem is with the power of SOME NPC abilities. I like a challenge as much as the next guy, but facing someone with a 'I win' button is just silly.
I'm sure he is good, and i'm sure you are too, but talking down to someone and assuming you're much better than them is still arrogant. I PvP a lot, and i think i can hold my own very well thank you. I fly a sci ship and think PvP is well balanced atm. My problem is with NPCs. (mind you not all of them. I feel most of the enemies i face present a fair challenge. My problem is the peak damage delivered by some enemies)
That pretty much clears it up. When i fly as my Eng/cruiser i can usually survive the HYTs i B'tran. They are not a I win button... But as my Sci/Sci or Tac/escort it's another story...
Let me give you an example from last night: I was facing the Terran in B'tran. When i met an escort the following happened. As soon as the Escort would notice me, it would send a volley of HYTs at me, I could see the 4 torps flying towards me, and had plenty of time to prepare my defence. I hit RSP to keep my shields at maximum when they hit, I was running at full speed for the resistance, I hit TSS for the shield resistance, I hit HE2 for the hull resistance, I hit BFI for the kinetic resistance, and SSDampening Field for resistance... so what happens? The 4 torps hit, all of them crit, and i'm dead... = just stupid... Only thing i feel i could have done different is adding a +30% kinetic console, but in my recon ship i only have 2 eng slots, and a lot of other consoles i'd like to use...
For some reason, it seems almost all NPC torps crit. Shields do not affect them... Aren't torps supposed to be ineffective when they hit shields?
As for the extreme hull&shield strength of NPCs, if people want to keep it that way, then ok. It only makes it all more drag out a bit i think... I fight by wearing them down, and if i can wear them down from 50k hull I can do the same from 100k. It just takes twice as long to do it. By the time i have them down to 75% i know if i've won the fight, and the rest of the fight is just repeat...
I still did not talk down to you and I'm not that good,in fact I just got beat last night by a very good Fed team.
I made two statements in my original response to you.
1) You may wish to tone back to advanced difficulty.
A common insight when someone is having a bad expeirience is to back off on the difficulty until said source of bad play can be analyzed and corrected, wiether it be player or game related.
2) I said you may wish to adjust you load-out or build.
I said this because once again it is a common problem among most players, inculding myself. If you had responded to iether suggestion without angst , I couldv've suggested guides and websites that have helped me become a little better. Lately I have had to relearn how skills affect different abilites and was more than willing to brainstorm with you over such things as I have a science alt and would've liked the input and insight into the class I know little about.
As far the NPC's and the amount of dammage they crank out in PvE. I have noticed that Cryptic used higher health for the NPC's and a boosted dammage output to increase the difficulty of advanced and elite. Later I feel they have actually tweaked the AI to increase the NPC use of BO abilities to better mimic known combo's that players have discovered. Consquentially I feel that this will make for a slightly unbalanced PvE gameplay as the elite NPC's may be hitting too hard and too fast in an attempt to bring a sense of danger into the game.
I'm open for debates on almost any game related subject and willing to help.
I apoligize for any misunderstandings on my part. No hard feelings.
no apology needed.. i just tend to get frustrated because i really don't like to complain in the forum, and when i do it's after trying to approach the problem from all angles i can think of first... including reading all posts i can find to see if someone has any ideas i can use... i keep forgetting that other posters don't know how much work i've put into finding a sollution before writing the thread
But seriously, if anyone has a good tip on how to counter the HYT thingy i described in my last post, please throw it at me! I'm at my wits end on how to survive this... My main strategy atm is crossing my fingers and hope they don't use it on me, or at least that one of the torps won't crit when it lands...
btw: I may actually set up a spare boff with AtoD, as i rarely use RSP in PvE anyway... but it seems such a waste to fit an ability that i will be needing in only 10% of my fights, when i only have 2 eng stations.
Don't let that bother you. You should've been around for my forum meltdown during Champions closed beta. lol
As for the combo used on you- still working on it. In fact I just died from it once already today in T4 pvp.
Well many are using HYT 3 so how do you get along in pvp fine but not PvE sound fishy!
Because the NPC HYT3 is a LOT stronger! And is (almost) not affected by shields. A NPC salvo of 4 quantums will often/usually crit at 4x 16000... and that's more hull than i can spare
The NPC Ships on Elite do practically 1-shot players on Elite and it is frustrating. You have to actually use Brace for Impact if in a Science Ship or Escort, because high yields do drop a shield facing at 100%.
Its mainly due to the programming, because they didn't make seperate and balanced models, instead difficulty settings merely boosts by a certain percentage. I believe Advanced is 25% stronger shields, hull, and weaponry and Elite is 50% stronger hull, shields, and weaponry.
Cruisers on Elite are probably the easiest to do PvE in.
Science Ships become hard to PvE in in the upper half of Tier 4 (Below that they are easy).
Escorts, you have to either do a burst strike or do hit and runs. Because tanking is out of the question, and RSP is definitely needed.
So all in all, there isn't exactly a balance.
As a veteran of Starfleet Battles and Star Fleet Command, I would have preferred something more realistic. Cruiser vs Cruiser should be a tough fight with an even chance of victory. Cruiser vs Battleship should be a TOUGH fight for the Cruiser. And so on.
Just think of it it's not really the ships your fighting, its just some lousy captain that managed to get put in charge of a battleship and didn't bring out it's full potential. Whom was stupid enough that he let a inferior ship win.