Right, because they said there would be no cap means there was NEVER that possibility.
The fact that we DO have a cap completely defeats that logic. It was obviously a possibility.
I'm not contending the fact we have a skill cap, because we do. I never said it was impossible to put a skill cap either. Heck, they can add star destroyers as the next ship for all I know, everything is possible.
What I said is that the skill tree was ORIGINALLY designed with no skill cap in mind. They should change it to fit a skill cap, or leave the tree and remove the cap.
Pay attention to what people write, do not jump to conclusions.
Everything mentioned here is a moot point to new players, every beta tester here knows that the system in place was originally designed as a open skill point system without limits so the player could eventually max out, this like others have mentioned was 'amended' shortly before open beta and essentially is/was untested.
STo was designed this way, it was changed - for better or worse. Nothing you can do about it now.
Not equal to
ah, see youre mixing them up. As what I saw in the thread your paragon (I never remember the name ss-something) was in, what he was doing was squabbling, not arguing. Especially the way he avoids the counterpoints that were being offered to him, just insulting the ppl offering those counterpoints and calling them names while acting high and mighty and insulted and chiding ppl for doing the same.
yep so now instead of fixing the game they are gonna try and throw a caped system right on top of the old uncaped one. This is gonna break the game for years
Its like trying to put a pinto engine in a volvo . with alot of work it mite run but it isnt no volvo. Why do you all want a pinto?
I completely agree. The whole skill tree needs a complete overhaul (I mean, engine, suspension, frame, electrical, everything) for it to be useful with a skill cap. The current tree does not work. And little patches to it will not fix it either as you say. They need to take it down and redesign it if they want to keep the skill cap.
If I take everything you say here and reverse it, it is the best reasons why there should be a skill cap. You have failed to respond to every attempt to explain this to you.
Without a skill cap, EVERYONE in the same officer type will have exactly the SAME SKILLS and LEVELS in those skills. NO specialization....no originality.....no focused training. If you want to be flexible, put only 6 or 7 skill points into every skill.
If everyone could do everything, then there would be no point in having officer types. There would be no point in asking for respecs. There would be no point in having more than one character slot.
Again, what you are asking for is: EVERYONE in the same officer type will have exactly the SAME SKILLS and LEVELS If that does not kill the game off fast, I don't know what will.
This too has been resolved in previous debates......the cure for maxing every skill is to add more skills.
and yes I will point you to the EVE skill system to show you that your statement is false.
anywho, sure caped system great bla bla bla. in a few months i will make my i told you so speech (this will not make me happy )
When the servers have become ghost towns from pure bordom
sure you defend it here and sound grand, but the people playing who dont read here will get bored
when you see and come to understand it will be to late.
You now the main reasion i want the cap removed? the number one reasion.
I feel this game will die without it, I want this game to win. I love star trek but i cant play on dead servers
so very very many people have left stating the cap as the number one reasion for there departure
i dont even wanna know just how many it really was/is/going to be.
It would just make me sad
see? its just the "do it my way or youll be sorry and I'll get to say 'I told u so - but it wont make me happy'
If you are so unhappy, why are you staying?
Cryptic, change the damn skill tree to something useful with a skill cap, or leave as it is and remove the skill cap. I'm sure if you put it a really meaningful skill tree, worth putting skills into, that have you thinking and deciding what you want to do, then many people may be back. Maybe.
Im sure someone can find the link but that IS what they said
I don't agree though. Zinc has already stated that the game will progress by the devs using the forums for feedback. In light of his comments I just can't agree with you on that matter.
I don't trust a game developer to entrust 100% of their decisions to us. As Matt Miller said back in CoH, "...(Within reason), give the players what they want." Mission Architect was initially to be XP free, then they added it in due to player squabbling. Now they're patching and repatching to prevent powerlevelling, alienating the squabblers in the end anyway and frustrated 'legit' players into leaving due to someone (still true even now) reaching Level 1-50 in less than three days and totally not know how to play the game. May as well made it how they wanted to, faced the backlash, and kept the same folks around.
I'm not comparing this situation to Skill Cap, but using it for illustrative purposes. Some restraint from player suggestions can be useful.
I completely agree. The whole skill tree needs a complete overhaul (I mean, engine, suspension, frame, electrical, everything) for it to be useful with a skill cap. The current tree does not work. And little patches to it will not fix it either as you say. They need to take it down and redesign it if they want to keep the skill cap.
i agree but why do so much work when removing the cap is so much easyer leaving them time to create more content
I don't know but I had heard that the current STF started out in a blaze of people doing it but it has since died down and I am sure this would perhaps indicate people losing interest already. I don't know as it was just what I heard from my fleetmates. But I have seen a substantial difference in the amount of people doing DSE's as compared to what it was just post launch.
In what area? As last time I was in sirius it was 27 instances with 5 at least. I was trying to skip the 5 min timer (G_M was told by a GM this is cool), but the instances wre all full.
I don't agree though. Zinc has already stated that the game will progress by the devs using the forums for feedback. In light of his comments I just can't agree with you on that matter.
Lol you refuse to acknowledge that things can change dont you?
In what area? As last time I was in sirius it was 27 instances with 5 at least. I was trying to skip the 5 min timer (G_M was told by a GM this is cool), but the instances wre all full.
Romulan space, Cardassian space.......I was in there only yesterday and there was only 2-3 instances.
yep so now instead of fixing the game they are gonna try and throw a caped system right on top of the old uncaped one. This is gonna break the game for years
Its like trying to put a pinto engine in a volvo . with alot of work it mite run but it isnt no volvo. Why do you all want a pinto?
This is very much in line with what the designers have been planning all along. Future plans around upping the skillcap take the concepts of specialization and make it much clearer. It was never the intention that everyone would be able to cap out all skills (there is a max level in this game that ties to the level of the content available).
The skillcap discussions have been ongoing for months now and the designers are set that we are not going to change the skillcap until the new higher level content is available and the upper limit will be increased when that update goes live. Maybe it would be clearer to think of it as the maximum level being 45 and no one will be allowed to be over level 45 until the next big game expansion.
I despise the skill cap in its current form but its obvious Cryptic have successfully managed to steamroll those that dont want it with a brick wall of silence and cosmetic BS.
Heres a Skirt : PROGRESS
We want skill cap gone : Stone wall, until finally, 1 month later Cryptic finally admited oh, we always intended for a skill cap. Which is a blatant lie and one they didnt even have the decency to until 1 month later.
Keep it classy guys, its not like people are paying to play a game that had people posting thread after thread in the forums about the skill issue but went completely ignored.
Regardless, the current skill cap needs raised and that is without question. 1 Admiral skill until the next 'big expansion' which is 'later this year' is unacceptable.
Respecing does not give you more admiral skills and still obeys the ranking limits thus its 8000 points at Admiral until 3 - 6 months. Respec as many times as you like, its still going to be 8000 points.
Anyone with a brain would see that 1 out of 16 Admiral skills is stupid and is going to become more so if they continue to add skills without raising the cap to accomodate them.
However, I am sick and tired of making this point so TRIBBLE people who will not listen and dont realise certain skill sets under this cap do not work.
Tactical Ground Skills
Advanced Warfare
Close Protection
Squad Command
Out of all that Tacticals get 1.6 thats you until 'later this year'
The amount of people that will have bridge officers with Target Optics III, Overwatch III is going to be very low indeed and I suspect other classes will be equally devoid of their higher tier skills when only twink characters will be using them and trading them for insane prices on the exchange.
But hey, dont change that... I have my 4 slots lined up to do exactly that.
To be clear - changing the "ranks" you receive in game which then unlocks skills is unlikely to change anytime soon. Any change in actual ranks would necessitate a restructuring of the skill system, and this does not necessarily synch up with our future plans for the skill system and future skillcap changes.
You are more likely to see "accolade" titles which will allow you to display various "sub-ranks" which are not tied to future skillcap/skill tree changes.
Other than the changes you are seeing in the update on Tribble now, it is not expected that you will see any major change to the skill system until we up the skillcap in a future update.
Its not that hard to find either, plug Dstahl's name into the search thing and start skimming
The designers have looked into options but a re-ranking structure would be akin to redesigning the entire skill tree which isn't coming any time soon if ever.
So i gather you have nothing constructive to contribute to the debate then?
If we took that sort of attitude and applied it to all topics that are being debated then progress will be halted and the game will stagnate.
I've already argued my points in another thread which included you as well, so you already know my points and arguments against removing the cap, and from my viewed I believe I sufficently proved it was a bad idea.
Lol you refuse to acknowledge that things can change dont you?
I don't see what your point is.....I can only asume you are trying to goade me into some sort of pointless squabble.
Sure things can change.......life is every changing. But people make an argument and if I disagree i counter. That is the way of things. Nobody is forcing you to take part in these debates. All your comments serve is to prove that if you aren't succesful in changing someones opinion you resort to pointless unfounded comments.
When I have been proven beyond doubt to have been wrong I have admitted so. As such you have not yet convinced me that your arguments are valid and therefore I have no need to agree with you.
This is what debating is all about. If you don't agree you then explain why you don't agree and then attempt to convince me that your argument is better than mine. That is the fundamental core of intellectual debate.
Why is this concept so difficult for you to understand?
While not mentioned in the report, the system designer responsible for the Skill tree has been reviewing all the bugs here and working on them for a future update. There is no solid ETA on when they will all be addressed, but I can say they are being worked on.
There u go, its being worked on. They ARENT gtonna impliment it RIGHT NOW no matter how many "squabbles" (as you like this word) you start
Why is this concept so difficult for you to understand?
The part that involvbes you actually countering anything. I see you posting definitions of words, deflecting issues, but I have yrt to see any of this "countering" you keep talking about, but ill ge back up the thread, im a few pages back, so I might have missed it.
Originally Posted by dstahl
The designers have looked into options but a re-ranking structure would be akin to redesigning the entire skill tree which isn't coming any time soon if ever.
Note no skill cap removed
no skill system to be fixed, what are we left with?
Originally Posted by dstahl
The designers have looked into options but a re-ranking structure would be akin to redesigning the entire skill tree which isn't coming any time soon if ever.
Note no skill cap removed
no skill system to be fixed, what are we left with?
See here....this disprove your entire argument you just put forward.
that would be true if I were infallible too.
Im sorry you are forced to work with us mere humans.
lol My ENTIRE argument is disproved because I made one mistake?
WOW lol
Its funny how fast you jumped on that too lol
Ok, pat yourself on the back now, just like your paragon does when he catches a dev in a mistake lol you guys crack me up.
that would be true if I were infallible too.
Im sorry you are forced to work with us mere humans.
lol My ENTIRE argument is disproved because I made one mistake?
WOW lol
Its funny how fast you jumped on that too lol
Ok, pat yourself on the back now, just like your paragon does when he catches a dev in a mistake lol you guys crack me up.
its not about cracking you up, its about fixing the game
Comments
I'm not contending the fact we have a skill cap, because we do. I never said it was impossible to put a skill cap either. Heck, they can add star destroyers as the next ship for all I know, everything is possible.
What I said is that the skill tree was ORIGINALLY designed with no skill cap in mind. They should change it to fit a skill cap, or leave the tree and remove the cap.
Pay attention to what people write, do not jump to conclusions.
STo was designed this way, it was changed - for better or worse. Nothing you can do about it now.
Not equal to
ah, see youre mixing them up. As what I saw in the thread your paragon (I never remember the name ss-something) was in, what he was doing was squabbling, not arguing. Especially the way he avoids the counterpoints that were being offered to him, just insulting the ppl offering those counterpoints and calling them names while acting high and mighty and insulted and chiding ppl for doing the same.
I completely agree. The whole skill tree needs a complete overhaul (I mean, engine, suspension, frame, electrical, everything) for it to be useful with a skill cap. The current tree does not work. And little patches to it will not fix it either as you say. They need to take it down and redesign it if they want to keep the skill cap.
This too has been resolved in previous debates......the cure for maxing every skill is to add more skills.
and yes I will point you to the EVE skill system to show you that your statement is false.
ahh you could do that with anything, its called lying and bending the facts
Fish is good for you
then you say, Eating fish will kill you. ( sure eat enough fish and you will die but thats a LOT of fish )
your statment is just strange imoa
see? its just the "do it my way or youll be sorry and I'll get to say 'I told u so - but it wont make me happy'
If you are so unhappy, why are you staying?
Im sure someone can find the link but that IS what they said
I don't trust a game developer to entrust 100% of their decisions to us. As Matt Miller said back in CoH, "...(Within reason), give the players what they want." Mission Architect was initially to be XP free, then they added it in due to player squabbling. Now they're patching and repatching to prevent powerlevelling, alienating the squabblers in the end anyway and frustrated 'legit' players into leaving due to someone (still true even now) reaching Level 1-50 in less than three days and totally not know how to play the game. May as well made it how they wanted to, faced the backlash, and kept the same folks around.
I'm not comparing this situation to Skill Cap, but using it for illustrative purposes. Some restraint from player suggestions can be useful.
i agree but why do so much work when removing the cap is so much easyer leaving them time to create more content
So i gather you have nothing constructive to contribute to the debate then?
If we took that sort of attitude and applied it to all topics that are being debated then progress will be halted and the game will stagnate.
Well, they said a lot of things in beta and before the game was released, and what did we get? yeah...
I'm on a "I'll believe it when I see it" mode... Words don't do much now. They better show results.
In what area? As last time I was in sirius it was 27 instances with 5 at least. I was trying to skip the 5 min timer (G_M was told by a GM this is cool), but the instances wre all full.
BINGO!!!!!
Nail on the head!!
Lol you refuse to acknowledge that things can change dont you?
Romulan space, Cardassian space.......I was in there only yesterday and there was only 2-3 instances.
Huge difference from when I first went through.
Theyve also said SINCE then that it was never intended to allow us to cap out everything.
THINGS CAN CHANGE
Wow, what a concept O.o
Bolded for ease of reading
Heres a Skirt : PROGRESS
We want skill cap gone : Stone wall, until finally, 1 month later Cryptic finally admited oh, we always intended for a skill cap. Which is a blatant lie and one they didnt even have the decency to until 1 month later.
Keep it classy guys, its not like people are paying to play a game that had people posting thread after thread in the forums about the skill issue but went completely ignored.
Regardless, the current skill cap needs raised and that is without question. 1 Admiral skill until the next 'big expansion' which is 'later this year' is unacceptable.
Respecing does not give you more admiral skills and still obeys the ranking limits thus its 8000 points at Admiral until 3 - 6 months. Respec as many times as you like, its still going to be 8000 points.
Anyone with a brain would see that 1 out of 16 Admiral skills is stupid and is going to become more so if they continue to add skills without raising the cap to accomodate them.
However, I am sick and tired of making this point so TRIBBLE people who will not listen and dont realise certain skill sets under this cap do not work.
Anti Protons
Polarons
Tricobalt,
T5 Ship varient 1,
T5 Ship varient 2,
Photonic Theory,
Chroniton,
Weapon Performance,
Auxilery Performance,
Hull Repair,
Spatial anomaly,
Astrometrics
Tactical Ground Skills
Advanced Warfare
Close Protection
Squad Command
Out of all that Tacticals get 1.6 thats you until 'later this year'
The amount of people that will have bridge officers with Target Optics III, Overwatch III is going to be very low indeed and I suspect other classes will be equally devoid of their higher tier skills when only twink characters will be using them and trading them for insane prices on the exchange.
But hey, dont change that... I have my 4 slots lined up to do exactly that.
Its not that hard to find either, plug Dstahl's name into the search thing and start skimming
I've already argued my points in another thread which included you as well, so you already know my points and arguments against removing the cap, and from my viewed I believe I sufficently proved it was a bad idea.
I don't see what your point is.....I can only asume you are trying to goade me into some sort of pointless squabble.
Sure things can change.......life is every changing. But people make an argument and if I disagree i counter. That is the way of things. Nobody is forcing you to take part in these debates. All your comments serve is to prove that if you aren't succesful in changing someones opinion you resort to pointless unfounded comments.
When I have been proven beyond doubt to have been wrong I have admitted so. As such you have not yet convinced me that your arguments are valid and therefore I have no need to agree with you.
This is what debating is all about. If you don't agree you then explain why you don't agree and then attempt to convince me that your argument is better than mine. That is the fundamental core of intellectual debate.
Why is this concept so difficult for you to understand?
There u go, its being worked on. They ARENT gtonna impliment it RIGHT NOW no matter how many "squabbles" (as you like this word) you start
The part that involvbes you actually countering anything. I see you posting definitions of words, deflecting issues, but I have yrt to see any of this "countering" you keep talking about, but ill ge back up the thread, im a few pages back, so I might have missed it.
The designers have looked into options but a re-ranking structure would be akin to redesigning the entire skill tree which isn't coming any time soon if ever.
Note no skill cap removed
no skill system to be fixed, what are we left with?
Excellent!! and you have proven without a doubt that you have got it wrong. You are quoting an older statement than the one I was talking about
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2356780&postcount=285
See here....this disproves your entire argument you just put forward.
answer = a broken game
that would be true if I were infallible too.
Im sorry you are forced to work with us mere humans.
lol My ENTIRE argument is disproved because I made one mistake?
WOW lol
Its funny how fast you jumped on that too lol
Ok, pat yourself on the back now, just like your paragon does when he catches a dev in a mistake lol you guys crack me up.
its not about cracking you up, its about fixing the game