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Death penalty - please no !!!
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Seems the most vocal on these forums get what they want, so in that spirit I will create yet another thread on this topic, in the hope of generating like minded support (or at worst distracting the flamers)...
I am totally opposed to death penalty for PvE. Its nothing more than a time penalty for real life, and serves no other purpose.
When you die in Modern Warfare, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress 2, etc etc you don't respawn with less weapons, or are forced to hop on one leg do you? You get thrown straight back in the action to try again!
I don't like unqualified statements like "the majority of players" or similar. It would be interesting for Cryptic to communicate how they came to this decision, and back up it up with numbers.
This is a deal breaker for me sadly, as I do not have the free time to play this game 'Eve style'.
I may have time to reach Captain before this happens. But once applied - depending on its severity - it will be time to cancel the sub. A desperate shame. As I loved this game and being able to dip in and out of it for the long term, whilst being able to leave my keyboard to deal with family issues without fear of in game penalties (like most other multiplayer experiences, as defined above).
There's still time for Cryptic to reconsider, or to make it a user definable option for those desperate enough to want such a thing, so the rest of us can enjoy the game as it is.
I am totally opposed to death penalty for PvE. Its nothing more than a time penalty for real life, and serves no other purpose.
When you die in Modern Warfare, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress 2, etc etc you don't respawn with less weapons, or are forced to hop on one leg do you? You get thrown straight back in the action to try again!
I don't like unqualified statements like "the majority of players" or similar. It would be interesting for Cryptic to communicate how they came to this decision, and back up it up with numbers.
This is a deal breaker for me sadly, as I do not have the free time to play this game 'Eve style'.
I may have time to reach Captain before this happens. But once applied - depending on its severity - it will be time to cancel the sub. A desperate shame. As I loved this game and being able to dip in and out of it for the long term, whilst being able to leave my keyboard to deal with family issues without fear of in game penalties (like most other multiplayer experiences, as defined above).
There's still time for Cryptic to reconsider, or to make it a user definable option for those desperate enough to want such a thing, so the rest of us can enjoy the game as it is.
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I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the more casual gamers don't tend to be as vocal as the hardcore gamers. They play the game, to play the game. They don't spend an extra 20+ hours a week on the forums arguing about what the game does or doesn't need. Usually due to a lack of time. Think about all the people NOT complaining about the lack of death penalty, because they're fine with it the way it is. The lack of a death penalty was one of the reasons I decided to pick up the game.
A: takes time for the other side to gain an advantage
B: You can spawn at other parts of the map that are not beneficial to you team team
C: Effect the score depending on the game type your playing.
Only the PVP aspect of STO can the above be attribed too really. Okay in fleet action it can be annoying to die but dying is not as frustating and game changing as it is in the games above.
I welcome some type of death penality and if you look at all the hundreds of replies in the copious amounts of threads like this, it looks like the scores must be in favour of a death penalty. If I am wrong on this then the DEVs must have thought that there game does not promote you "really" stay alive and with you just respawning.
Are you saying that in playing STO there has not been one mission, fleet action or PVP where you were down 2 10% and thought no worries I will respawn soon with full health?
Maybe because I have played MMos since the 90s I like to feel like if I run into these 2 mobs I will die and pay the penalty so I will have to review the tactics closely.
I am not asking for an EQ death penalty but something along the realms of degrading items that you have to go back to a SB to fix.
Either way this is my opinion and we can agree to disagree however it seems Cryptic agrees with me that a Death Penalty is needed.
Stay frosty.
You'd think especially Cryptic would rather listen to their own COH experience with the penalty for death. It got progressively reduced and capped to trivial levels because not only it wasn't popular, but it broke groups too. It didn't take more than a wipe or two before people either outright remembered that they aren't in it to accumulate penalties, and started passing the blame, or just found excuses to leave.
But in the end, _if_ Cryptic is stupid enough to listen to the loudest circle-jerk minority, even against their own first-hand data, Cryptic richly deserves the resulting fallout. I don't think they are that stupid, but in the end they'll live or die by their own decisions. Think of it as the MMO survival of the fittest. MMO Darwin Awards and all that
That said, I understand that some people don't work this way and need the coded in death penalty. As long as it's not too harsh - I'm ok with it. I'd prefer it to be left as is, but... Keep it somewhat minor and it's fine.
That should also provoke better and more tactical teamwork in an encounter.
You do know that for a game to suceed it need both casual and hardcore players?
Where does it say that it's only hardcore players asking for a death penalty? I am sure some casual players welcome a challenge and some hardcore player don't want a death penalty.
If/when Cryptic implement a change that has such an effect on a game that people leave in droves, then they will find out the hardway that the change is wrong (NGE SWG) and suffer the consequences.
With the state of the game the way it is at the moment, adding a death penalty is the least of STOs problems (even though I think it is needed).
I read those threads and even posted in them. It is an argument that can never be won. But I have seen just as many people post that they do *NOT* want a death penalty as I have that do. Thing is, people who do not want one get tired of getting bashed by the people who do, so they stop posting while the people who do want it continue to post. Sad really. The people who want the death penalty want this so bad, they will beat down anyone who does not want it in order to ensure that their voices are the only ones heard.
Proof is all through those threads.
Have you seen some of the peoples ideas for a death penalty? They love the pain stick. I think these people just came off of Ashron's Call or something where you have to run a billion miles to get back to your body, in hopes that some other player has not looted your body. Some people call that fun. Not me.
If only the people could see past their own desire to feel like unkillable gods in the trek universe they would see that this is perfect logic. But no, sadly our sane discussions for a simple money sink will only be met by 'IF U WANT A PENALTY DELETE YOUR CHARACTERS".
Money in this game is worthless at the moment, which in a way is kinda funny because even the credit sellers are realizing it. Without some kind of sink it's just going to get worse and worse and the fact that we have no way to sort exchange results from most expensive to to cheapest and it just compounds the issue. Also people are just putting stuff up for insane amounts as a way to use the Ex for extra storage space.
It's a joke, the entire exchange and money system is a pile of broken trash.
Plus a DP will force people to slow down giving the Devs more time to write content that you can't LOLDPSZERG burn through and complain that there is no more content a week later.
Oh well. People will be people and only after a DP is put in the game will they finally realize that it's NOT that bad.
That completely depends on how harsh a DP they put in. I'm not willing to put up with an EQ/VG/etc-style DP anymore. 10 years ago, sure, but now I have much, much less time.
I was assuming they go with the money sink as a DP, maybe even a expanded respawn time for repeat deaths.
Anything more than that will suck hardcore. Like losing BOs, etc.
So why have health bars then. What if they reaaaaly aren't good at online games but enjoy clickign around in a trek universe? Why should they be punished with having to respawn because for whatever reason they keep dying over and over? Take health bars out!
Money sink ala EQ2/WoW "repairs" + increasing respawn timer for repeated deaths sounds perfect to me, honestly.
That's something most people could live with I think. Of course, some people really like teh buttsecks from their games though and would want full ship loss and full bridge crew perma-loss. Sigh.
Funny. For weeks people claim this game is too easy. At launch, there were massive protests about the missing "crew penalty" for being destroyed in space combat.
And now that there's an announcement that they may still add a death penalty, some people start crying havoc already - without even knowing what this penalty might be.
So here's my 2 cents about this.
1 - Seeing how mindless some people rush into battle, especially in space, a penalty for being killed is not only appropriate but badly needed. Maybe some will actually start to learn how to pilot their ships more properly then.
2 - As you claim that you are making "yet another thread" about this issue, I will now report you for spamming. Good day.
1. The prices at the exchange are in free fall. I bought rare officers for 100 credits lately, and items are largely only capped downwards by the vendor price. (As in, if you sell it below half the price, someone will buy it just to vendor it.)
2. Having repair costs did nothing to prevent the hyper-inflation in WoW, or EQ2, or a bunch of other games I've played.
3. Speaking of not understanding economics, do you understand the factors that limit the inflation here? Do you understand the supply and demand side, and that basically the game spawns more items as rewards than all the players combined will use? Do you understand the effect of having vendors and exploration rewards at all tiers, as an alternative to buying with credits? Do you understand that everyone who gets their new ship at LtC, Commander, etc, gets it full of top items for the previous tier, creating an even more over-supply of items that will drive the prices downwards?
4. "Hating noobs", beside being an "appeal to motive" variant of the "ad hominem circumstantial" fallacy, it's plain old false too. "Noobs" don't need purple items or officers right off the bat, nor to breed a tier 5 tribble. And everything else is actually cheaper at the Exchange than at vendors. So how is supporting a system that gives "noobs" cheap items equalling "hating noobs"?
Also "noobs" can get green items by spending 1 hour exploring whatever uncharted cluster is apropriate for their level. Regardless of how the prices at the exchange move, there'll be no time when you plain old can't get upgrades for your ship. And frankly, compared to any other game (WoW, COH, EQ2, etc), it's less time farming those exploration marks here than it would take to farm or grind crafting to afford the same upgrades.
Also "noobs" can ge some pretty darned good items off quests, often far surpassing anything available for credits anyway. E.g., I don't think anyone who got that efficient engine MK IV will be in a hurry to buy another engine for the next dozen levels or so.
5. If such a penalty will affect anyone the most, it will be, yes, the "noobs". They're the guys who'll have to wonder what to sell to pay for the upgrades when they're ganked by one of those idiotic level 45 battleships that get spawned in low level "Defend the Sirius block" missions lately, when they haven't even made any money yet.
So let me turn that around: do _you_ hate the "noobs"? Are _you_ very very bad at economics?
Until you are the Cryptic employee(s) in charge of that decision, that is nothing but speculation on your part.
Funny. Do you understand that they are different groups there? No, I don't think you do. There is no uniform borg collective of players who all want the same thing.
Unfortunately, as the OP correctly said, what we had is a small clique of whiners who tried to ruin the game for everyone else. There was no majority of player whining for a DP, it was the small group of idiots who had nothing better to do than whine about that instead of actually playing the damned game.
And what business of yours is how people enjoy the game? Not enough ego polishing for you if you don't penalize everyone else, or what?
Boo-hoo.
Except even in WoW it becomes a good excuse to refuse to group with people, or leave a group in the middle of a raid. The thing everyone talks about after a raid becomes just measured in money, and as soon as those repair costs mount, the blame starts being passed around. The tank is bad. No, it's the healer. No, the hunter's pet must be to blame. Etc.
It's hardly an effect that I'm missing from WoW.
If that's so easy for you, i.e., wouldn't make a difference... why are you for it? Just as a way to make it crappier for other people?
They can enjoy the game all they like and in any way they like as long as I don't have to have them around me. Sadly I can not totally avoid these failured imitations of a captain as I am bound to bumo into them now and then on a DSE or a Patrol. Or worse, on an attempt at the entity.
Definately not, and I'll give you one reason for it... credit farmers!
Only people who gain from a money sink is credit farmers, and I can safely say the are more players that hate them more than people complaining about a lack of a DP.
You stick in a money sink, you have credit farmers dancing for joy because the demand for them goes up, and I for one will be spending more time add ignoring people than playing the game... so a defiantely no thanks on that idea!
I never said it was easy. I die too, well sometimes, well not often at all. All I am saying is. If you KNOW that you cannot win a battle by yourself then you have no business flying into the battle.
How do you know its a small clique? Why do you assume they are idiots? This says more about you than it does them.
Take a look at your opening line. " Do you understand that they are different groups there? There is no uniform borg collective of players who all want the same thing". Thats the most sensible thing you have said and you are right and everyone who plays wants the game to be like what "they want". I am like that, you are and so is everyone else. Unfortunately we don't all get what we want and it's then that you make a decision to stay or go.
Cryptic rightly or wrongly and for whatever reason have "proably" decided they need a DP in the game. The community will tell them they are right or wrong by leaving or staying.
Its that simple.
it you accomplish something that is hard you actually feel good about it. the secret is not to make it impossible so that most people cant do it.
right now its better some times if I just kill my self respawn and then go in and finish them off. thats stupid.
its amazing how weak the world is goming and complacent I have feeling eventually chewing food will be to tough and every thing will be pureed and drunk through straws.
I deally I would love it if when in 25% hull weapons and systems start failing.
I like the idea of BO being temp disabled as well. with it stacking as well.