Nice update, it's much appreciated here to see some of the plans put into writing.
I agree with the previous posters though that a launcher poll would be far more effective for finding out the opinions of the masses on things like the Death Penalty. The forums are simple an inefficient way of finding out the true majority's perspective on major topics. Forums are nearly always only a reflection of the vocal few, not the majority of a subscriber base.
Reason I played COH for so long was there was a DS... Me, I played at the next to highest setting on one toon, on another I played at the highest, but on another toon I had the slider smack in the middle...
COH's DP is slightly annoying, more so in the lower levels than higher... but again... This game is so much more fun to play...
I hope they do not add more of a DP... If anything XP Debt but, use some logic, if yer killed by something 35 levels higher than you, over and over and over, you should have a 10-20 second leeway for DP....
maybe the death penalty thing is being over analyzed, even by me. maybe its as simple as doing a trek trick to make it more interesting. return the ship and crew as normal, just show escape pods, as i mentioned before, and go through an instance where you find you and your crew survived, and your ship is replaced with an identical one.. from the admirals message, all you have to do is choose to go back to the fight or go to sector space. perhaps its that simple... no penalty, just show something believable during the time loss.
The thing that makes me truly sad is that the people who complain the most about there not being enough content in a game that was only officially released this month are not the Star Trek fans but the MMO fans. It rly rly isn't Cryptic's fault you have nothing better to do than spend several hours a day playing a game you are not satisfied with but...on the other hand, please whether you play or not, don't cancel your sub because I want them to have as much money as possible to make this great game even better.
P.S. Thanks Cryptic for doing this. We've been waiting 30 years.
I dont play alot of mmos but i have played a few both had DPs one you lost your whole ship and had to rely on a insurance policy to replace it but the market was so inflamed you couldnt get a new ship because it cost more than you got for its insurance policy. Not to mention the expensive equipment you had that insurance dont cover. Id hate to loose my Rare MK VIII disrupters that i worked hard to get. The other mmo had a cooldown where you lost a % of exp/skill points for a short time and you respawned in a safezone outside the current map. This was ok but it still dammeged your belongings and you had to get them repaired or they would break which costed you gold.
Just so you know anything like a DP that makes players spend hard erned ingame money only incourages them to buy gold from gold spammers. Which will give spammers a stronger foothold in this game. I mean take a look a close look at the exchange its not difficult to spot the gold spammers because there flooding the exchange with common junk you get in the easy missions.
I am very sure those griffers out there that thrive on making other players misrible would love to see a DP that cost the unfortunate player they prey on energy credits to buy and refit their ship.
On a more positive note i love this game so far im a huge Trek fan and love picking up the little bits of reference to past Trek shows(History).
Keep up the good work Devs if i could afford a life membership id have bought it the second day playing.
Craig, you are totaly right about Death Penality. There is no need for it. Its only a time sink and no player should be punished for dying in Game.
Who needs a Punishment, think about one yourself. Take a break for two hours or delete the Charakter and start a new one because the old one died. If you need a harder punishment stick your Hand in a Toaster every time you die in Game. I don't care. But don't force Players to get a punishment they don't want.
For the rest of the "State of the Game":
Very good read and i can't wait to see all the things. Ship interiors, more bridges, crew quarters, First Officers, Fleet advancement...just great.
Exactly, why should others, openly hostile to the current game, be deciding how we play the game? If they want to penalize or create some challenge for themselves than they are free to come up with whatever role-playing, ranking, loss of object/points/credits system etc. So we have to be penalized by some asinine real-life time sink because they can't create their own fun? What are they children? So we all have to be penalized to make it fun for this small minority segment of players who are demanding drastic changes to the game mechanics to get their kicks because they can't get them on their own. They are the minority? WTH is going on? I don't want some non-sense timesink just because these people do. I like STO because it is NOT like other MMOs. Why cater to the people that don't like the game and want to change it entirely? How about listening to the people that love it the way it is, have been loyal customers and supporters and want to see it grow and develop along the path already established. I don't want to see it become just another crummy MMO with Star Trek slapped on top. Not EVESTO but the awesome, fun and incredible STO that exists today.
Please don't start changing the core game mechanics by adding this immersion breaking, awful, real life time penalty. I am not a child, I don not need a time out! It is hard enough to balance RL and time for the game as it is. Why would you want to add something that makes it even more difficult? Are you trying to chase customers away?
insurance policy to replace it but the market was so inflamed you couldnt get a new ship because it cost more than you got for its insurance policy
If you are talking about Eve the market wasn't overpriced. The insurance system was set to purposefully give you less that what you paid.
enough content in a game that was only officially released this month are not the Star Trek fans but the MMO fans
I'm sorry what? So Star Trek fans are more important than everyone else? Nice way of throwing everyone into two groups of people. Discrimination and segregation are obviously the way to go.
It rly rly isn't Cryptic's fault you have nothing better to do than spend several hours a day playing a game
Yes it's our fault that we spent money for a product that, according to you we should only play for less than a couple of hours a day because the game wasn't designed for anything more than that. What we choose to do with our time is our business and yes, it is Cryptics fault that there isn't enough content. I don't see any other developers, do you?
The thing that makes me truly sad is that the people who complain the most about there not being enough content in a game that was only officially released this month are not the Star Trek fans but the MMO fans. .
many of those fans areboth, actually, and are playing T5 klingons, giving you something to do at end cap.
and the way content is being released, about the same time they leave is the same time you won't need them anymore.
congratulations
Craig,
Keep up the good work. We appreciate all the effort and it's good to know that you guys are reading the forums.
Death penalty = you guys can always run a test on tribble (test server) and maybe allow people to change instance (have non death and death penalty instances) to a death penalty instance for one of the defend mission. See which one becomes more popular. I think the in-game actions provide the best feedback of what the players like. If very few players play the death penalty instance or many players play the death penalty instance, that will be your most honest feedback.
Please don't add a Death Penalty!
I think the 15 seconds and spawn way back is penalty enough, especially if you count in that for example in Fleet Actions only damage dealt (maybe healed, too) count.
I want to play this game to have fun, not to get penalties, then I can go out and "play" "Real Life 1.0".
way to go im very excited by this and it is good to see someone reporting what is happening soon and a few ideas for the future plz keep up the great work and lets make this one of the best mmo's out there and by we i mean the players and cryptic cos together we could accomplish anything
I've read through out much of this thread, maybe only having missed 1-2 pages. But it seems to me that the majority of people on this thread are against the DP being added in.
Normally, I tend to keep quiet concerning things like State of the Game and other little tidbits the Devs give us. This time, however, i am forced to agree with the myriad people here saying that a Death Penalty is not something we want in this game, and I am vehement enough about it to feel the desire to post it here.
To the varied people that want a Death Penalty; Why on Earth would you want to be penalized in a game you are playing to relax and have fun?
To the Developers; please, do not implement this. It was a bad idea before and it is just as bad now. I think the numbers in this post alone can attest to that. If you want more substantial numbers; present a poll concerned only with the Death Penalty. Allow for opinions, suggestions or just a Yes and No. You'll find that your majority player base is opposed to this.
I hope the death penalty isn't too harsh. Whilst I agree that there needs to be a little more 'something' to fight for your survival (rather than the current ground system of a long trek back to the action whilst your Boff's get stuck in doorways*), I don't like them being too harsh as I'm prone to constant RL interruptions.
At least there's lots of places where the game saves your progress.
*Which reminds me, when are the Boffs going to get pathfinding and doorway navigation training at Starfleet Academy?
All in all, things look positive; I'm looking forward to exploring my own ship and decorating it with 'stuff'.
If you are talking about Eve the market wasn't overpriced. The insurance system was set to purposefully give you less that what you paid.
Yes i am reffering to EVE and the reason they did this is irrelevent. The fact is you would spend hours or even days getting your ship back and everything you had on it. Meanwile your freinds are having fun doing missions wile you run to every system in the game retrieving all the TRIBBLE you had befor or minning for the materials to rebuild your ship. To me that alone took away all the fun. All im saying is adding a DP that cost you energy credits creates more problems than good. And will cause spammers to be more abundent in the game.
Does seem that a Death Penalty is being forced upon us by some very vocal people, Im all for giving them what they want, just dont force it on those that dont.
So basically you've been sending out untested patches... That's just amateurish. As a producer you simply failed to anticipate and plan ahead. You should never sacrifice quality for capacity.
Considering all the complaints about server stability and capacity, they probably made the right decision at the time.
When STO first came out, I remember one of the things I mentioned to my husband on why I enjoyed it so much is not having a 'repair bill' of sorts due to deaths. I was an active WoW player for years, CoH before that, SWG before that and EQ even before that. All had respective death penalties.
With WoW, loss of gold in the form of a repair bill. With CoH, xp debt causing it to take one twice as long to earn xp towards their next level. SWG had gear actually vanish after it had lost enough durability. EQ one lost xp, sometimes to the point of losing entire levels if they died enough (not to mention losing entire sets of gear if you didn't manage to do your corpse run before your body decayed).
All of these were bad in that they caused anger and stress on the players if they died or failed in some way. Causing anger in your players makes them get frustrated, and frustrated players do not stay with a game long. Yes you'll have your hard core gamer player base here to 'win', but what about the other half, who are on the fence on whether they want to stay with it or not. I have many friends that have come over from WoW to try it out and see if they like it well enough to stay. I'm sure there are many more in that same boat. This is a brand new game that people are learning, and it is quite a lot different then any other games out there right now. This may well be the breaking point to send these folks running back to something they know, something more familiar.
Please do not put this death penalty into live play. This would be very upsetting, and I can see I'm not the only one that feels this way.
There there, Craig... That's what the giant multi-headed feedback monster wants to hear... Let us give you a big hug... and then get the hell back to work or we have to use our mighty whip again
But Seriously - I like how the game has developed so far... Tip of my hat... Keep it up
EDIT: I hope you find a suitable compromise regarding DP... There are some good reasons for and against it... difficult to say how you can satisfy both. I am not quite sure what side I am on. Without DP many people just rush into stupid dangers without worries and kinda zerg their way through some missions... With DP I would have suffered some harsh times because of a few unbalanced encounters in deep space etc. Without adjusting them they will become a really frustration magnet... But then again... My sig states a good point here
I don't mind a death penalty..... just make sure you fix every instance to provide a secure respawn point, where 20 npc's don't just sit and camp you and ruin your penalty system.... cause I am sure one or two thousand players would be mightly ****ed off with that.
Originally Posted by Wilv
There in lies the issue. Where does the game ultimately stand? Is it an MMO w/ casual players in mind as it seems to have been designed or is it an MMO for hardcore players in mind as some would like it to be. You can't have both though because if you start catering to the hardcore players you loose the casual players who think things have gotten too hard or too time consuming and if you keep catering to the casual players the hardcore players will continue to complain that the game is too relaxed and too easy going.
I have also been in "Borg Hunt" instances where people will drag a fleet of Borg ships over to other players just to watch them get annihilated. I can see stuff like this becoming even more of an issue if people think it will be even more fun to make people pay for getting killed.
Star Trek SHOULD NOT be for hardcore players, it just doesn't fit...
Your absolutely right. You can tell that Star Trek Online was designed from the beginning with the casual player in mind. This makes sense as it would help draw in many of the Star Trek fans as well as casual games. To now start waffling and trying to cater to both will only start bring chaos and further tension and frustration. You need to stand firm to your design and principles. What is wrong with being a casual MMO? You don't have to be like the others? I play STO and bought a lifetime subscription, something I've never done because I thought I had finally found a game I could enjoy for many years to come. I don't wan't a hardcore WOWEVESTO I want a casual MMO. I play this to relax and have fun. I don't need more stress and drama in my life which is all these changes will bring. I simply want the STO I signed up and paid for. Why have you sold me and others who believed and trusted you out so quickly? I am just stunned and feel over-looked and betrayed. I'm also amazed that the dev the team would sell-out and drop its own ideals, design and plans for the game at the first sign of opposition. Especially caving to a small minority whine(mob)ocracy of players who really are just MMO players who could care less about Star Trek or STO. There just here to try to dominate the new MMO battle field and establish their l33tness nothing more. Please rethink this, don't force a real life time penalty on the rest of us to keep a small portion of players entertained.
i gotta say, Communication from Cryptic has been a bit on the lax side as of late. Thank you for this! Its very reassuring just to hear something from time to time, so we know your still there, and still care about us lil starship commanders.:D
We are building a big spanish speaking community, and it would be ten times bigger if they could understand the missions!
It's the second most spoken languaje in the planet!
Actually, it's the 3rd most spoken language on the planet (350 Million People). Mandarin is number 1 (873 Million People), Hindi is number 2 (370 Million People). English happens to be 4th (340 Million People). That's counting Native speakers alone.
However, your post is off topic and belongs in a different thread.
I think they should make it so you lose like 500 to 1500 skill points as a DP depending on your rank. And if you have just gotten your next rank you should have to regress to the previous rank and earn back the skill points. Than would be the best kind of DP that will make it seam more meaningfull without it being too much of a time/credit sink. Just my opinion.:D
Comments
I agree with the previous posters though that a launcher poll would be far more effective for finding out the opinions of the masses on things like the Death Penalty. The forums are simple an inefficient way of finding out the true majority's perspective on major topics. Forums are nearly always only a reflection of the vocal few, not the majority of a subscriber base.
Reason I played COH for so long was there was a DS... Me, I played at the next to highest setting on one toon, on another I played at the highest, but on another toon I had the slider smack in the middle...
COH's DP is slightly annoying, more so in the lower levels than higher... but again... This game is so much more fun to play...
I hope they do not add more of a DP... If anything XP Debt but, use some logic, if yer killed by something 35 levels higher than you, over and over and over, you should have a 10-20 second leeway for DP....
But yes, a slider...
DS no DP... :>
P.S. Thanks Cryptic for doing this. We've been waiting 30 years.
Just so you know anything like a DP that makes players spend hard erned ingame money only incourages them to buy gold from gold spammers. Which will give spammers a stronger foothold in this game. I mean take a look a close look at the exchange its not difficult to spot the gold spammers because there flooding the exchange with common junk you get in the easy missions.
I am very sure those griffers out there that thrive on making other players misrible would love to see a DP that cost the unfortunate player they prey on energy credits to buy and refit their ship.
On a more positive note i love this game so far im a huge Trek fan and love picking up the little bits of reference to past Trek shows(History).
Keep up the good work Devs if i could afford a life membership id have bought it the second day playing.
Cptn Malock Slourn
U.S.S. Semper Fi - C
Exp Csr
Exactly, why should others, openly hostile to the current game, be deciding how we play the game? If they want to penalize or create some challenge for themselves than they are free to come up with whatever role-playing, ranking, loss of object/points/credits system etc. So we have to be penalized by some asinine real-life time sink because they can't create their own fun? What are they children? So we all have to be penalized to make it fun for this small minority segment of players who are demanding drastic changes to the game mechanics to get their kicks because they can't get them on their own. They are the minority? WTH is going on? I don't want some non-sense timesink just because these people do. I like STO because it is NOT like other MMOs. Why cater to the people that don't like the game and want to change it entirely? How about listening to the people that love it the way it is, have been loyal customers and supporters and want to see it grow and develop along the path already established. I don't want to see it become just another crummy MMO with Star Trek slapped on top. Not EVESTO but the awesome, fun and incredible STO that exists today.
Please don't start changing the core game mechanics by adding this immersion breaking, awful, real life time penalty. I am not a child, I don not need a time out! It is hard enough to balance RL and time for the game as it is. Why would you want to add something that makes it even more difficult? Are you trying to chase customers away?
If you are talking about Eve the market wasn't overpriced. The insurance system was set to purposefully give you less that what you paid.
I'm sorry what? So Star Trek fans are more important than everyone else? Nice way of throwing everyone into two groups of people. Discrimination and segregation are obviously the way to go.
Yes it's our fault that we spent money for a product that, according to you we should only play for less than a couple of hours a day because the game wasn't designed for anything more than that. What we choose to do with our time is our business and yes, it is Cryptics fault that there isn't enough content. I don't see any other developers, do you?
Go away sheep.
many of those fans areboth, actually, and are playing T5 klingons, giving you something to do at end cap.
and the way content is being released, about the same time they leave is the same time you won't need them anymore.
congratulations
Keep up the good work. We appreciate all the effort and it's good to know that you guys are reading the forums.
Death penalty = you guys can always run a test on tribble (test server) and maybe allow people to change instance (have non death and death penalty instances) to a death penalty instance for one of the defend mission. See which one becomes more popular. I think the in-game actions provide the best feedback of what the players like. If very few players play the death penalty instance or many players play the death penalty instance, that will be your most honest feedback.
Just one little thing to add:
Please don't add a Death Penalty!
I think the 15 seconds and spawn way back is penalty enough, especially if you count in that for example in Fleet Actions only damage dealt (maybe healed, too) count.
I want to play this game to have fun, not to get penalties, then I can go out and "play" "Real Life 1.0".
To the varied people that want a Death Penalty; Why on Earth would you want to be penalized in a game you are playing to relax and have fun?
To the Developers; please, do not implement this. It was a bad idea before and it is just as bad now. I think the numbers in this post alone can attest to that. If you want more substantial numbers; present a poll concerned only with the Death Penalty. Allow for opinions, suggestions or just a Yes and No. You'll find that your majority player base is opposed to this.
At least there's lots of places where the game saves your progress.
*Which reminds me, when are the Boffs going to get pathfinding and doorway navigation training at Starfleet Academy?
All in all, things look positive; I'm looking forward to exploring my own ship and decorating it with 'stuff'.
We are building a big spanish speaking community, and it would be ten times bigger if they could understand the missions!
It's the second most spoken languaje in the planet!
Yes i am reffering to EVE and the reason they did this is irrelevent. The fact is you would spend hours or even days getting your ship back and everything you had on it. Meanwile your freinds are having fun doing missions wile you run to every system in the game retrieving all the TRIBBLE you had befor or minning for the materials to rebuild your ship. To me that alone took away all the fun. All im saying is adding a DP that cost you energy credits creates more problems than good. And will cause spammers to be more abundent in the game.
Considering all the complaints about server stability and capacity, they probably made the right decision at the time.
Crew quarters..? I noticed that. I'm really praying this will be player housing complete with decorations ("... get that fish out of my ready room!").
Keep up the good work.
Carry on!
With WoW, loss of gold in the form of a repair bill. With CoH, xp debt causing it to take one twice as long to earn xp towards their next level. SWG had gear actually vanish after it had lost enough durability. EQ one lost xp, sometimes to the point of losing entire levels if they died enough (not to mention losing entire sets of gear if you didn't manage to do your corpse run before your body decayed).
All of these were bad in that they caused anger and stress on the players if they died or failed in some way. Causing anger in your players makes them get frustrated, and frustrated players do not stay with a game long. Yes you'll have your hard core gamer player base here to 'win', but what about the other half, who are on the fence on whether they want to stay with it or not. I have many friends that have come over from WoW to try it out and see if they like it well enough to stay. I'm sure there are many more in that same boat. This is a brand new game that people are learning, and it is quite a lot different then any other games out there right now. This may well be the breaking point to send these folks running back to something they know, something more familiar.
Please do not put this death penalty into live play. This would be very upsetting, and I can see I'm not the only one that feels this way.
But Seriously - I like how the game has developed so far... Tip of my hat... Keep it up
EDIT: I hope you find a suitable compromise regarding DP... There are some good reasons for and against it... difficult to say how you can satisfy both. I am not quite sure what side I am on. Without DP many people just rush into stupid dangers without worries and kinda zerg their way through some missions... With DP I would have suffered some harsh times because of a few unbalanced encounters in deep space etc. Without adjusting them they will become a really frustration magnet... But then again... My sig states a good point here
Keep up the good work! Lots and lots (including me) DO like your game!
Originally Posted by Wilv
There in lies the issue. Where does the game ultimately stand? Is it an MMO w/ casual players in mind as it seems to have been designed or is it an MMO for hardcore players in mind as some would like it to be. You can't have both though because if you start catering to the hardcore players you loose the casual players who think things have gotten too hard or too time consuming and if you keep catering to the casual players the hardcore players will continue to complain that the game is too relaxed and too easy going.
I have also been in "Borg Hunt" instances where people will drag a fleet of Borg ships over to other players just to watch them get annihilated. I can see stuff like this becoming even more of an issue if people think it will be even more fun to make people pay for getting killed.
Star Trek SHOULD NOT be for hardcore players, it just doesn't fit...
Your absolutely right. You can tell that Star Trek Online was designed from the beginning with the casual player in mind. This makes sense as it would help draw in many of the Star Trek fans as well as casual games. To now start waffling and trying to cater to both will only start bring chaos and further tension and frustration. You need to stand firm to your design and principles. What is wrong with being a casual MMO? You don't have to be like the others? I play STO and bought a lifetime subscription, something I've never done because I thought I had finally found a game I could enjoy for many years to come. I don't wan't a hardcore WOWEVESTO I want a casual MMO. I play this to relax and have fun. I don't need more stress and drama in my life which is all these changes will bring. I simply want the STO I signed up and paid for. Why have you sold me and others who believed and trusted you out so quickly? I am just stunned and feel over-looked and betrayed. I'm also amazed that the dev the team would sell-out and drop its own ideals, design and plans for the game at the first sign of opposition. Especially caving to a small minority whine(mob)ocracy of players who really are just MMO players who could care less about Star Trek or STO. There just here to try to dominate the new MMO battle field and establish their l33tness nothing more. Please rethink this, don't force a real life time penalty on the rest of us to keep a small portion of players entertained.
Actually, it's the 3rd most spoken language on the planet (350 Million People). Mandarin is number 1 (873 Million People), Hindi is number 2 (370 Million People). English happens to be 4th (340 Million People). That's counting Native speakers alone.
However, your post is off topic and belongs in a different thread.