test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Is STO an MMO or Not?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,018 Arc User
So... I see a lot of people claiming STO isn't and MMO and how there is little to no player interaction and so forth.

Personally... I have met more random cool people in STO and added them to my friends list than I have ever met on WoW since opening day.

So... what do I think about people claiming this isn't an MMO and it has no player interaction?

Introvert. 80% of making player interaction is being interactive with people and 80% of you fail at this.

So how can you make the game more fun? Learn to type and talk to people. Learn to start conversations.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It helps if you wouldn't insult us if you want a response.

    I would say that STO falls closer to Guild Wars in terms of "MMO-ness." It's so heavily instanced that its sometimes hard to even get into the same sector space instance as the people you are grouped with. There is no indication if someone else is doing a mission around a planet. No flaming icons, that you might see in something like Planetside to let everyone know there's something going on there.

    And open teaming is a great idea on paper, but horrible in practice. I left it open until I had that early on mission that has you escort the freighter and the guy before me warped in, grabbed the freighter and went afk.

    I remember a lot of times in other MMOs, WoW, WaR, even AoC where you had kill quests out in the open world and came across someone doing the same thing and asked to group. That won't happen here because the game is so heavily instanced.

    I mean go into Sirius Sector Block and you see like 100+ instances of the same zone. So no, it doesn't act, feel, or play like an MMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I find it MUCH easier to be social in this game than other games. In most MMOs, everyone's busy running to the end-game content and could care less about partying with anyone else. It's all too easy to simply give up finding parties on all but the newest of games. In STO, it automatically groups you up with people who are doing the same thing you are doing. STO is an MMO in that lots of people play the game together on a server, and can interact with each other. I haven't had a single gaming session that didn't involve playing with other people, I can't even say the same is the case when I played EVE online or Warhammer online...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    STO is IMO NOT a MMO.

    I was at no point in time encouraged to group.
    I did not need to group to attain Admiral
    There is no benefit to grouping, in fact it actually hurts you in a lot of ways.

    As such, I played the game, did the missions, obtained Admiral Rank.. and promptly cancelled my subscription. As a single played game STO provided me with my $60 worth of gameplay, about as much as I would get from any other single player experience.. so even tho I feel ripped off.. I "know" that I wasn't technically.

    Anyway.. I'm of the opinion that STO is not gonna last as a MMO as the MAIN reason MMO's last is not because of content, or raids, or whatever.. Its because it provided a medium for people to get together and share an experience.. STO does NOT provide that (or the others for that matter).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    AidenPryde wrote: »
    It helps if you wouldn't insult us if you want a response.

    I would say that STO falls closer to Guild Wars in terms of "MMO-ness." It's so heavily instanced that its sometimes hard to even get into the same sector space instance as the people you are grouped with. There is no indication if someone else is doing a mission around a planet. No flaming icons, that you might see in something like Planetside to let everyone know there's something going on there.

    And open teaming is a great idea on paper, but horrible in practice. I left it open until I had that early on mission that has you escort the freighter and the guy before me warped in, grabbed the freighter and went afk.

    I remember a lot of times in other MMOs, WoW, WaR, even AoC where you had kill quests out in the open world and came across someone doing the same thing and asked to group. That won't happen here because the game is so heavily instanced.

    I mean go into Sirius Sector Block and you see like 100+ instances of the same zone. So no, it doesn't act, feel, or play like an MMO.

    How did I insult you exactly? ...

    I have met many people in this game, and been able to group with all of them. I don't even use open group because of the bugs you stated.

    People who claim this isn't an MMO just don't make it an MMO. If you don't take the time to try and talk to people, then yeah you're probably not going to find people to group with. Also, you can change instances.

    "M" and then at the bottom is a change instance button, on top of that when you do this it even tells you what instance friends, fleet, and group members are in.

    The problem isn't the game, its the fact that too many people expect things to be handed to them and instead of exploring on their own and attempting to make friends through zone chat, they just chalk up no friends to game mechanics.

    No matter what instance you're in, they're all linked into one chat for each sector block or mission you are doing. Thus if you're in Zone 19 you can talk to people in Zones 1-18 and 20-~~.

    honestly Instancing isn't an excuse for people just lacking general people skills. I met a very nice person just last night by saying "woah... you're short..." thats all... and we talked for almost an hour and a half and added friends to the friends list.

    I have also made friends by simply answering peoples questions about the game. Like I said, 20% of the problem is probably the game but 80% are just people and lack of trying.
    Xionanx wrote: »
    STO is IMO NOT a MMO.

    I was at no point in time encouraged to group.
    I did not need to group to attain Admiral
    There is no benefit to grouping, in fact it actually hurts you in a lot of ways.

    As such, I played the game, did the missions, obtained Admiral Rank.. and promptly cancelled my subscription. As a single played game STO provided me with my $60 worth of gameplay, about as much as I would get from any other single player experience.. so even tho I feel ripped off.. I "know" that I wasn't technically.

    Anyway.. I'm of the opinion that STO is not gonna last as a MMO as the MAIN reason MMO's last is not because of content, or raids, or whatever.. Its because it provided a medium for people to get together and share an experience.. STO does NOT provide that (or the others for that matter).

    By your definition:
    WoW is not an MMO.
    EvE is not an MMO, and is arguably not even a Single player game as I don't actually have to play to build my character...
    Aion is not an MMO as I can easily grind to max level without ever grouping and there isn't really any need to group as I can get good random drops off mobs and craft.
    SW:G is not an MMO.
    Warhammer is not an MMO.

    The list goes on...

    Also by your definition the last true MMO was EverQuest then. Personally, I couldn't disagree more with you. I don't believe an MMO puts the Multiplayer aspect in, I believe the players do. With the change in the way MMO's are done, sure you can play it solo, but thats your choice, and you can easily group and add the multiplayer experience to the game.

    It was your choice not to. Also, grouping with people who understand how to work together makes the game go a lot faster.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You said 80% of us fail at social interaction...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Based on the structure of this game I find it easier and more enjoyable to go about it on my own since there is no difficulty to experiencing the content solo. I can die a thousand times over but I just get stronger with each death.

    Examples of what I consider MMOs. In order to experience the content on the end of WOTLK I need 9 or 24 other people. SWG-PreCU I needed politicians, architects, armorsmiths, and merchants to create a town.
    EVE needed alliances and corporations to get far in 0.0 space.

    So far I haven't talked to a soul in STO to get to Commander and I doubt I will need to talk to anyone to finish up the game. Maybe raidisodes will help but with the trouble I hear of people getting friends into the same instance I doubt I will bother.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So there are several issues here.

    The first is that most long-time MMO players have been conditioned by the games they played not to trust other players. I have to force myself to turn open teaming on, even though it's been a blast almost every time so far, and I've met some really cool folks. But there's years of bad experiences in other games where the only way to get a group with decent folks was usually to be part of their guild, or be a friend of a friend. There's reasons that it got that way, but I won't go into those here and bore everyone.

    The second issue is that STO is a very solo-friendly game. This is good for the so-called "casual" gamers and honestly it's something that the gaming population as a whole demands these days. The problem with solo-friendly games, of course, is that they don't push players to socialize and group together so much. In this sense, open teaming actually helps - if players can bring themselves to turn around.

    STO is also heavily instanced, and the way that they combine chat channels from multiple instances actually makes things worse as much as it makes it better. I have to turn off zone chat in sector space, or shunt it to another tab, simply because I can't keep up with stuff that I want to see - like fleet chat and tells. During beta however, I would hang out in zone chat and answer questions and just talk, and it was a lot of fun.

    STO is lacking content (at the moment) that requires other players in order to do. The only thing we have where you absolutely have to work with other players is fleet actions, and really that can be done without having to talk or communicate at all (although the one ground-based fleet action so far does almost require you to team up too). Once the "raidisodes" start happening, that may help with this.

    Likewise, STO doesn't give much purpose to fleets right now. You can form them and make uniforms and stuff, but there is no fleet-specific content, and no perks/goals for a fleet to work towards. While some players may feel that fleets shouldn't be "required" or even "encouraged", it cannot be denied that they are a powerful tool for building community and bringing players together.

    Finally, a lot of people who have played other MMOs before (and who would say STO isn't an MMO) are also very focused players. They are concentrating on leveling up and getting to the "endgame" because that is what they have been conditioned to do by previous games. Because of that, and because the game isn't requiring them to leverage other players to do that, they're not taking opportunities to socialize as much.

    To really make a community form, which is really the crux of the issue here, a game has to both allow for socialization to occur, and push players to do it. STO does an ok job of the former, but really doesn't do the latter yet. I think that will change as we start to see more content added, but until then, we're going to have people leaving or complaining because they feel like they're "playing alone together", to steal a phrase.

    So is STO an MMO? Yes, absolutely. Could it do more to help push players to communicate and socialize? Absolutely. Are individual players ultimately responsible for making the most of what they've got? I think so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Based on the structure of this game I find it easier and more enjoyable to go about it on my own since there is no difficulty to experiencing the content solo. I can die a thousand times over but I just get stronger with each de ath.

    Examples of what I consider MMOs. In order to experience the content on the end of WOTLK I need 9 or 24 other people. SWG-PreCU I needed politicians, architects, armorsmiths, and merchants to create a town.
    EVE needed alliances and corporations to get far in 0.0 space.

    So far I haven't talked to a soul in STO to get to Commander and I doubt I will need to talk to anyone to finish up the game. Maybe raidisodes will help but with the trouble I hear of people getting friends into the same instance I doubt I will bother.

    You didn't really need anyone to play the game in SW:G or WoW though and as there are no raid instances yet (just like WoW) you can't really say that the game isn't an mmo.

    Also I have never had any trouble getting friends into the same instance in the game as far as group quests go. The only time I have even remotely had trouble is for DSE's.

    Lastly, like I said because you choose to play the game single player does not make it a single player game. It makes it your choice, and I know that if you were required to group for this and that we wouldn't be hearing "This game is single player blah blah" we would be hearing "WHy do I have to group to do this and that?!" or "I can never find a group! This is stupid!"
    AidenPryde wrote: »
    You said 80% of us fail at social interaction...

    Indeed I did say "you" (pluraly) BUT I didn't specifically say YOU (singularly). In fact... you grouped yourself into that 80% even after I gave you the option to be in the 20%. So the only person actually insulting you is yourself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MrBlinker wrote:
    You didn't really need anyone to play the game in SW:G or WoW though and as there are no raid instances yet (just like WoW) you can't really say that the game isn't an mmo.

    Also I have never had any trouble getting friends into the same instance in the game as far as group quests go. The only time I have even remotely had trouble is for DSE's.

    Lastly, like I said because you choose to play the game single player does not make it a single player game. It makes it your choice, and I know that if you were required to group for this and that we wouldn't be hearing "This game is single player blah blah" we would be hearing "WHy do I have to group to do this and that?!" or "I can never find a group! This is stupid!"

    WoW had a couple end game dungeons at launch. The Scarlet castle or w/e with all the undead, and one other, can't remember the name.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    AidenPryde wrote: »
    WoW had a couple end game dungeons at launch. The Scarlet castle or w/e with all the undead, and one other, can't remember the name.

    It actually had 4, Stratholme, Scholomance, and Upper/Lower BRS.

    None of which were manditory to do to reach max level.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MrBlinker wrote:
    By your definition:
    WoW is not an MMO.
    EvE is not an MMO, and is arguably not even a Single player game as I don't actually have to play to build my character...
    Aion is not an MMO as I can easily grind to max level without ever grouping and there isn't really any need to group as I can get good random drops off mobs and craft.
    SW:G is not an MMO.
    Warhammer is not an MMO.

    The list goes on...

    Also by your definition the last true MMO was EverQuest then. Personally, I couldn't disagree more with you. I don't believe an MMO puts the Multiplayer aspect in, I believe the players do. With the change in the way MMO's are done, sure you can play it solo, but thats your choice, and you can easily group and add the multiplayer experience to the game.

    It was your choice not to. Also, grouping with people who understand how to work together makes the game go a lot faster.

    :confused: So you must choose to be blind.
    WoW = Raids, Dungeon Crawls, and the Occasional World spawn.. which means a REASON to group, which means a REASON to socialise...
    EvE = Personal gain is great, but working TOGETHER in a CORPORATION = owning startbases, controlling an entire star system = REASON TO SOCIALISE
    Aion = World Spawn Epic monsters, Massive PvP area with upwards of 300+ people participating in a single PvP battle over control of a fortress, Guild rankings, etc.. = Reasons to socialise
    SW:G = I never played so I have no opinion on it.

    And then you say Everquest was the last MMO? I mean seriously? Everquest had in small doses what WoW, Aion, and EvE have taken to the next level.

    STO has NONE of that. As a matter of fact forming a group to do a mission in STO is actually so counter intuitive that one has to wonder why anyone even tries. Face it, STO has NO incentive to group and therefore NO incentive to socialise beyond "RP":rolleyes:.

    What was that thing in phsycology about the 7 stages of... hmm, I''m guessing right now your in Denial. Personally I've already passed that point into anger and then acceptance.

    I accept that STO sucks, I just with others would to so that the developers would finally have a reason to make it NOT suck:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There were quite a few 5man dungeons to level off of since questing took you there, Deadmines, RFC, etc at launch.

    In SWG you couldn't get around playing that game solo since it was a player driven economy. You had to talk to other to get equipment and you really had to be in a guild to get a town created. It was part of the content.

    This bring it all to a point of the player being needed and feeling needed. You can't go into a dungeon in WoW without a tank or a healer and you couldn't craft a SWG town without an Architect or a Gather.

    I don't get that feeling from this game. I don't need a science vessel to "heal" me, I can just blow up and start again. I don't need that Cruiser taking hits cause I can just alpha strike one at a time until that group of ships is dead. The raidisodes will mean nothing if I can solo suicide the content.

    I don't need to talk to anyone about buying equipment cause I can just run off to do explorations or hit the exchange. There is no crafting, so I don't need the services of anyone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    Everquest had in small doses what WoW, Aion, and EvE have taken to the next level.

    I have to disagree with you on WoW and Aion. With a few notable exceptions, EQ wrote the playbook, and those two MMOs (and others) simply followed it - and yes, that includes raids, from 6 groups to take down Vox and Naggy back in the old days, to almost 100 people in the glory days of POP. It also includes the overworld bosses - as everyone who ever got stomped by Gorenaire or Wuoshi or any of the ones since knows all too well.

    In general though, the vast majority of current MMOs trace 95% of their core concepts back to things pioneered by EQ and UO back in the beginning - and 75% of what both those games did came out of text MUDs and other earlier graphical games, like M59 or Gemstone. That is not to say that games such as WoW and Aion aren't good games (though beauty is in the eye of the beholder), but let's not pretend that they were revolutionary in any sense of the term.

    EVE is different, it is it's own game and never tried to copy anything that any other existing MMO did, so comparing it to EQ is like comparing an apple to a watermelon :) In fact, it's only now that people are even starting to copy some of EVE's gameplay concepts, which may lead to a lot more sandbox games in the future if games like Earthrise succeed in grabbing enough market share. And that will be good for the industry as a whole.

    /soapbox.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zone: "Anyone want to do <quest name>"

    Tends to get me at least a 4 man team every time.

    Pity the rewards don't encourage grouping though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :confused: So you must choose to be blind.
    WoW = Raids, Dungeon Crawls, and the Occasional World spawn.. which means a REASON to group, which means a REASON to socialise...

    Yeah no. I have played WoW since the beginning and people don't socialize in groups. They join, do the dungeon, and leave. Not to mention you don't have to do dungeons to make max level or to even just play the game. Its just an option.
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :
    EvE = Personal gain is great, but working TOGETHER in a CORPORATION = owning startbases, controlling an entire star system = REASON TO SOCIALISE

    Once again thats just an option you can take advantage of. Not NEEDED to play the game. You don't even have to be online to play EvE.
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :
    Aion = World Spawn Epic monsters, Massive PvP area with upwards of 300+ people participating in a single PvP battle over control of a fortress, Guild rankings, etc.. = Reasons to socialise

    Not required to level to max. Also, STO has PvP which is a lot more fun if you socialize... but I guess you missed that?
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :
    SW:G = I never played so I have no opinion on it.

    You could group, but it wasn't necessary to max your skill trees.
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :
    And then you say Everquest was the last MMO? I mean seriously? Everquest had in small doses what WoW, Aion, and EvE have taken to the next level.

    Small doses? You never played EQ did you. You were required to group to get anywhere at a reasonable pace, not only that but it wasn't instanced so you were required to socialize with others to figure out what spawns you would camp and such. Not to mention several of the EQ expansions were SPECIFICALLY based around raids, which you claimed earlier in your post are reasons to socialize.
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :
    STO has NONE of that. As a matter of fact forming a group to do a mission in STO is actually so counter intuitive that one has to wonder why anyone even tries. Face it, STO has NO incentive to group and therefore NO incentive to socialise beyond "RP":rolleyes:.

    Fail troll is fail. I already proved STO has group PvP which you claimed to be a reason for socializing. Yeah, try again.
    Xionanx wrote: »
    :
    What was that thing in phsycology about the 7 stages of... hmm, I''m guessing right now your in Denial. Personally I've already passed that point into anger and then acceptance.

    I accept that STO sucks, I just with others would to so that the developers would finally have a reason to make it NOT suck:D

    I don't believe I am in denial. The game is an MMO, as far as your points are concerned. I believe the person in denial is you. You have built yourself up to despise the game so much that you argue one point for one game and turn around and deny that same point for STO...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think it really comes down to lack of self motivation. This the same problem with people who want a death penalty. They want to be told what to do rather than do something for themselves.


    STO is a MMORPG. Just because you don't utilize the MMO part does not mean it is not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There were quite a few 5man dungeons to level off of since questing took you there, Deadmines, RFC, etc at launch.

    In SWG you couldn't get around playing that game solo since it was a player driven economy. You had to talk to other to get equipment and you really had to be in a guild to get a town created. It was part of the content.

    This bring it all to a point of the player being needed and feeling needed. You can't go into a dungeon in WoW without a tank or a healer and you couldn't craft a SWG town without an Architect or a Gather.

    I don't get that feeling from this game. I don't need a science vessel to "heal" me, I can just blow up and start again. I don't need that Cruiser taking hits cause I can just alpha strike one at a time until that group of ships is dead. The raidisodes will mean nothing if I can solo suicide the content.

    I don't need to talk to anyone about buying equipment cause I can just run off to do explorations or hit the exchange. There is no crafting, so I don't need the services of anyone.

    WoW - You didn't have to do the dungeons and actually, not doing them was a lot faster. Also dungeons don't necessarily promote social interaction. I can't count on a thousand peoples hands how many times I have joined a group in WoW and gone the entire instance without a person saying a word.

    SWG - You could easily play the game without talking to people. In fact I did. I played a TK and didn't need a single thing from other people. I went an entire year almost before bothering to ask a friend for doctor buffs and some crafted armor.

    You state options available in other games which are not necessary to play the game. People are saying I can reach admiral without ever talking to other people. Yeah... I can max my SW:G char and max my WoW char without bothering to group or talk to others as well. Infact, I have done that.

    My point is that its your personal decision to group or not group. Claiming STO isn't an MMO because you choose not to socialize is silly.

    BTW STO has PvP and you can't do it solo as it takes at least 2 people from each side to start the game, and on top of that if you try to solo PvP you're just going to have a horrible time.

    Also grouping ups the challenge and adds more ships. More ships means more loot. More loot means better upgrades.

    Every blue I have found in STO has been off of ships like BoP's. I have NEVER found a blue off a larger ship. Others may have, but the fact is that the more people in your group, the more ships, the more chance and if you're coordinated, the faster it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes.. STO is a MMO because in order of a PvP match to start there has to be at least 2 people on each team:rolleyes: Still dont have to be grouped tho and you still dont have to talk to and or coordinate with them in any way.. and.. you dont even have to win the match to get rewards, so you could just enter the PvP match and sit there doing nothing and get energy credits and PvP reward tokens.. yeah, that totally makes STO a MMO.

    So by YOUR reasoning.. all these FPS'ers (Battlefield, Modern Warfare, etc) count as MMO's:p

    Which is funny becuase in one of my earlier posts from a week or so ago I mentioned it would make sense for Cryptic to just guy all the story missions from STO entirely and sell just the Space Combat PvP as a stand alone Star Trek themed PvP game similar to Modern Warfare where you "Rank up" through PvP participation and get to upgrade your ship classess and gear based on that rank.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Massive Multiplayer means exactly what it says thats its a multi-player game. It doesn't imply that ground is required or needed.

    If you wander around Sol Base there is other players other so by defination ST:O is an MMO.

    Grouping shouldn't be manatory in games but an choice and that choise if offered. If you go to Deep Space battles then there always groups but player prefer to solo patrols for quickness.

    The upcoming Raid-i-sodes are player only and AT's can't be used so there is group content coming.

    There is always people willing to group though ;).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lets break it down M....M.....O....

    1st M) Massive : yup, its fairly massive and has room to expand. It really can be a big galaxy.

    2nd M) Multiplayer : yup, there is more than on rl player.

    O) Online : yup, its online.

    No where in that term is the word group play. You can play with others if you want, but you don't have to. I personally like both. I tend to play a little slower than most, ie....I don't engage full impluse very much like everyone else, as there is no time limit (good). I like to have a sip of coffee between battles :) so I do solo a lot, especally when I am learning a new game. If I got into a group with most of the players berzerking to get to the next fight, I don't have time to learn anything, mujch less enjoy the content.

    The group play in any game is up to the individual person, if you wanna put the time and effort into making friends or not. The possibility is there, but it is up to 'you'.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    Yes.. STO is a MMO because in order of a PvP match to start there has to be at least 2 people on each team:rolleyes: Still dont have to be grouped tho and you still dont have to talk to and or coordinate with them in any way.. and.. you dont even have to win the match to get rewards, so you could just enter the PvP match and sit there doing nothing and get energy credits and PvP reward tokens.. yeah, that totally makes STO a MMO.

    So by YOUR reasoning.. all these FPS'ers (Battlefield, Modern Warfare, etc) count as MMO's:p

    Which is funny becuase in one of my earlier posts from a week or so ago I mentioned it would make sense for Cryptic to just guy all the story missions from STO entirely and sell just the Space Combat PvP as a stand alone Star Trek themed PvP game similar to Modern Warfare where you "Rank up" through PvP participation and get to upgrade your ship classess and gear based on that rank.

    Actually no, because there is no persistent world in an FPS.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Basically sp game only time there is any mp aspect is when i team up with a mate and do a mission but that could easily have just been a sp game with some mp teaming going on. I wouldnt say it is a mmo in any form, and the instancing kills any form of hundreads of players running round on a planet doing there thing (not just missions but alas thats all they would be there for) and same with space, i never see hundreads of ships maybe the odd group or two of small groups fighting some ai not real players i mean u have to do pvp in ques not just anywhere and anytime which imo isnt what a mmo should be.

    In order for it to be a mmo it needs to drop instancing and let there be open worlds u can beam to without being on missions and have large maps or infinate maps where worlds are procedurally generated so u can go hundreads of kilometers in any direction with buildings that are enterable and all sorts with ai PVE things scattered about doing there own things, creatures not just say klingon ai or whatever. Like id like to go to risa go get a land vehicle and do some sight seeing on the beautiful world and maybe go in a group tour with loads of other players just scamming about lookin at stuff doing there own thing and then pop back to resort and dip in the pool or have a drink in the bar and chat up an orion slave girl lol.

    In space id like to just plot a course where no map will tell u whats there or near and it auto reveals and auto maps when u go so u could find a planet that u can land on or find a alien ship just dotted about in deep space or in a asteroid field needing help and i tractor it out and get a reward or go in a nebula and just scan it with some science equipment and take samples or discover some space born life form and try to comm it and talk to it and document it if there was a sceince academy i could submit reports to based on what i find.

    Atm it feels too closed in sort of policed by borders in space and on ground feels clostraphobic considering what star trek is all about.

    Also why must we players be locked to fed or kilngon and be in there military why can i not pick a path lets say im a human not in starfleet no uniform no starfleet ships to command i just wana rough it by trading in a transport (non fed transport) and make routes hmm maybe life of a ferengi with my own ship or maybe join another ship or just travel on transport ships to and from places and live life on board their ships i hire for passage. Or maybe just be a miner in a dilithium planet and sell for loads monies. lol.

    This will never happen i know but its what i hoped for a trek mmo. I mean yes im having fun doing missions but u cant play the game without a ship and being a fed officer or klingon officer in there fleet etc.

    Far too limiting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lets break it down M....M.....O....

    1st M) Massive : yup, its fairly massive and has room to expand. It really can be a big galaxy.

    2nd M) Multiplayer : yup, there is more than on rl player.

    O) Online : yup, its online.

    No where in that term is the word group play. You can play with others if you want, but you don't have to. I personally like both. I tend to play a little slower than most, ie....I don't engage full impluse very much like everyone else, as there is no time limit (good). I like to have a sip of coffee between battles :) so I do solo a lot, especally when I am learning a new game. If I got into a group with most of the players berzerking to get to the next fight, I don't have time to learn anything, mujch less enjoy the content.

    The group play in any game is up to the individual person, if you wanna put the time and effort into making friends or not. The possibility is there, but it is up to 'you'.

    See, if you break it down to the "Technical" defination of a MMO then YES I have to agree, its a persistent online world in which multiple users can play and interact. However the "Spirit" of what makes a MMO a MMO is lacking.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MrBlinker wrote:
    Actually no, because there is no persistent world in an FPS.

    Modern warfare maintains a persistant ranking system for your "avatar" so for all intents and purposes you are leveling up and maintaining that "character" over the course of multiple maps. The game itself is the world, condensed into a convenient menu system to remove the tedium of moving your character from battlefield to battlefield manually:p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    See, if you break it down to the "Technical" defination of a MMO then YES I have to agree, its a persistent online world in which multiple users can play and interact. However the "Spirit" of what makes a MMO a MMO is lacking.

    And I suppose WoW has this "spirit" you speak of? lol...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    See, if you break it down to the "Technical" defination of a MMO then YES I have to agree, its a persistent online world in which multiple users can play and interact. However the "Spirit" of what makes a MMO a MMO is lacking.

    yes, that is the "technical definition" of a MMORPG. It is THE definition of the genre. What you are pointing at in citing "spirit is not a general definition of MMORPGs, it is a design principal. STO is a MMORPG. It was designed with a particular goal in mind, which is freedom of choice in game play activities. This means general forced grouping to do menial quests is not part of the design.

    Raid content that is fast approaching deployment is DESIGNED to be group content. That raid content is a particular feature that is not a required quest or quest line. If you don't like the spirit of STO you might want to consider finding a new game. to change STO to have the spirit you want basically means they would have to "go back to code" which means a complete redesign of STO from code on up and probably taking it off line during that redesign for long spans of time. THAT will not happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    See, if you break it down to the "Technical" defination of a MMO then YES I have to agree, its a persistent online world in which multiple users can play and interact. However the "Spirit" of what makes a MMO a MMO is lacking.

    In a way, I know how you feel. The first couple weeks of play, I felt like I was rushed, like I had to be doing something. I can't even sit in a chair at the bar and chat with a friend, especally when you auto log out in under 5 mins.

    Now tho, I am taking my time. I go to a exploration zone, or to my bridge if I wanna just hang out and chat in fleet for a while, or sort tru my inventor, or speculate on what skills i am gonna learn next, which officer to promote....ect..... If I am not mistaken, thats the 'feel' you are talking about.

    The auto time out still is anoying, but I just make sure I move ever min. or so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xionanx wrote: »
    Modern warfare maintains a persistant ranking system for your "avatar" so for all intents and purposes you are leveling up and maintaining that "character" over the course of multiple maps. The game itself is the world, condensed into a convenient menu system to remove the tedium of moving your character from battlefield to battlefield manually:p

    Still no persistent world, and if you don't know what I mean by that I question your understanding of what makes an MMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MrBlinker wrote:
    And I suppose WoW has this "spirit" you speak of? lol...

    Well, considering I stopped playing WoW almost 2 years ago because it became an exercise in "time expenditure" more then anything else..

    I had already done every quest in the game, leveled multiple characters to cap.. all I had left to do was grind the same raids over and over again for epics and legendaries.. and when I had a guild that had the high end raids pretty much on farm alll that really meant was time.. I then realised I no longer "needed" to aquire those items because in my mind I already had them. Its hard to explain it, some people dont "get it" when I say that.. they seem to think I actually needed the "physical item" when I would try to say to them, "If I am 100% certain I will get the item in X# of raids, and we always succeed at the raid, then in effect I "Have" the item now so why continue to do this thing we are doing?"... anyway

    So now I am once again playing DDO, where I can group or solo or raid or just stand around in town talking to people. DDO does have the "Spirit" I speak of.. even tho its a flawed game with devs who seem to live on another planet and players who will just as soon spit on you as help you do a quest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The best MMO I've played for working with teammates in battles, PVP and many other things is Pirates of the Burning Sea........we litterly depended on each other. It's a game where the top players with big ships often took the Newbie's under their wing and helped them get their start......and then they never forgot that and did the same thing when they got in their big ships, just like I did.

    But I love Star Trek.

    Anybody here ever played StarFleet Command 3 ?

    That was my first MMO.
This discussion has been closed.