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***What Kind of Death Penalty Do You Want?***

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It sounds like you want "dungeon" type content more than you want a death penalty, content where you need a decently balanced group that plays decently to defeat it. I'd like that too, but slapping a death penalty onto the game as it is right now isn't going to create that content or anything like it really.

    True, im not after an annoying penalty thats going to waste peoples time, just something more than a 15sec timer, no mater how you play or like to play others will always take the easy way and when the majority of people follow suit then the game changes to how they want to play, i can see it where it will just be escort ships everywhere doing there own thing, no one wanting to group up together or needing to, i just want there to be good group mechanics, and effective too. At the moment its far from that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JonnySteel wrote:
    I dont think you really get the point.. speaking for myself, i dont want a penalty just for myself, i want everyone to have a penalty, that way the game is fair and ppl cant do dumb things like take on group missions by thereself and solo the enitre game content without ever really having a problem, i also want cruisers and science vessels to be needed in the game rather than just a cosmetic choice that they are now, i want to play in a team with my friends and now that i need someone to tank for me while i DPS and have the thrill of not wanting to die.. rather than thinking.. damn dont die or i have to wait 15 secs..
    I want the game to work as an MMO, and its not going to do that in care bare solo mode.

    Soloing game content and penalizing deaths are two separate issues. I agree that the game is a bit easy as I have soloed the entire amount of playable content. However, during that time I think I died maybe once or twice doing PVE content because I do not do the zerg tactics. I would be in favor of rewarding someone for staying alive longer perhaps in the form of a buff or something, but to penalize the player is some pointless way I am not in favor of. If you look at SWG's death penalty its a simple matter of paying a small mostly worthless amount of money, wow you can pay or run back to your body, neither of these enhance game play at all in my opinion. They are both mostly pointless. I can not speak for other games such as EVE as I have never played them but from what I have played the penalties were a minor annoyance about as much as a 15 second respawn.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Everyone is quite able to enforce any death penality they want on themselves. What im getting from the pro death penality people is that rather than just inhibiting themselves they want to inflict it on the entire community....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree whole heartily!!!! Currently, there is ZERO risk! Getting overwhelmed? Go ahead and kill me, I'll be back all nice and shiny in 12 seconds! LAME! Really takes the tactical approach out of the equation. Just mash spacebar, sooner or later I'll kill them all! BORING!!!!! Give us SOME-KIND of death penalty!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree whole heartily!!!! Currently, there is ZERO risk! Getting overwhelmed? Go ahead and kill me, I'll be back all nice and shiny in 12 seconds! LAME! Really takes the tactical approach out of the equation. Just mash spacebar, sooner or later I'll kill them all! BORING!!!!! Give us SOME-KIND of death penalty!

    Again what is stopping you from inhibiting yourself? if you die, go and make a cup of tea, delete a BO, wait longer... you really can have any death penaltiy you want, you dont need cryptic to enforce it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Since PvP is basically 'whoever gets most kills wins', then a death penalty is hardly necessary.

    Myself, I only get to play the game for about an hour at a time, which if I'm going slow doesn't cover some of the longer episodes. I don't want to be forced to repeat a mission from the start if I get surrounded by more klingons than I'd counted on. I don't have time for that. A death penalty that just prolongs the episode would be no good.
    Experience loss I don't think is really applicable for this game, as it's not something that you grind in to level up. You may get 30ish skillpoints killing mobs in a deep space encounter, but that's time consuming and the large majority of SP's come from missions, which are level-specific and most not repeatable. If you spawn into a DSE at a bad point and die because there's three +13's surrounding you, why should you lose SP's?
    Repair costs would lead to people worrying about credits. Which isn't really what ST is about, is it? The Federation pays for it's peoples ships when they need repair, and your engineers are up to the task for pretty much anything you get faced with.
    Only thing I can imagine as a DP would be some semi-perm death (as in, till you get back to a port for them to be treated by specialists) of bridge officers or 'standard crew' (leading to slower systems in general, and energy perhaps being sucked into your medical systems to support them)
    There are many "little" things that could be done. But adding a DP just for the sake of increasing the time it takes to complete missions is a bad idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    yea this game needs a death penalty!!

    I play games to feel better about myself (playing video games for fun is so 90's) and all this no DP for y'all bottom feeding MMo players is killing the game for all us leet gamers!!

    We need something to make us happy with our self and not being able to go "HAHAAHA you got pwned" or "LMFAO YOU GOT XP DEBTS!!" has really hurt the game for us.

    So cryptic who cares that you made a really fun game that can be enjoyable to those that have families and other responsibilities, besides sitting in the computer room for 5 hours a day trying to be "uber". WE NEED MORE TIME SINKS!!!

    also i made it to admiral in 2 days, WTF is my endgame!!!





    (note this post may contain sarcasm)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Again what is stopping you from inhibiting yourself? if you die, go and make a cup of tea, delete a BO, wait longer... you really can have any death penaltiy you want, you dont need cryptic to enforce it.

    So you're telling me, you enjoy flying unencumbered the entire game, with a respawn a death away? Wow, you must REALLY enjoyed playing Doom and Battlefield 1942 then....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So you're telling me, you enjoy flying unencumbered the entire game, with a respawn a death away? Wow, you must REALLY enjoyed playing Doom and Battlefield 1942 then....

    something wrong with those games?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Doom and Battlefield 1942 then....

    I'm really happy for you and im gonna let you finish..
    ...but bf2 was the best FPS of all time y'all!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    How about this then, for those of you that are so opposed to there being a consequence for failure... How about a reward for NOT failing. If you finish a mission with no death, you get a bonus of some kind, perhaps even a better loot table. This way we don't impose our game-destroying desire to lend some real fear to the prospect of failure on the rest of you.
    Of course we could just ask the devs to remove the death penalty for NPCs. They really got the raw end of the stick. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hello,

    I have to agree with most of the posts here....if the game is going to become both tactical and situational..there needs to be some sort of ship / ground / pve / pvp / raid death penalty.

    If there is no penalty, it kind of defeats the purpose of having different ship types, we would all be better then to put all power in weapons and none in shields,etc and go in guns blazing.

    If we take the Warcraft approach (which I think works) there are different types of penalties for different situations:

    - If you are standard PVE ... put a penalty on dying in the form or weapons / shield / item damage both in space and on the ground...too the point where they fail completely till fixed. This would cost credits and would also help the economy...as right now at Lt Commander 1 (11) I have tons of credits.

    - In PVP, the penalty can be in the form on slower respawn times, or no respawn at all...which means your team suffers, etc. This would stop the guns blazing effect, and add strategy.

    - In Raid(s), make the team members who die ...not respawn AND take damage. This would allow a true tanking, DPS, and healing classes to emerge. If all die, its a wipe and start again. This then also adds strategy and roles to the mix.


    If we don't start these different systems, the game will become very repetitive, with everyone just going in with no worries of dying. Also, this system of DP will allow for a smoother economy in-game and a better rewards system.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    szurlo wrote: »
    This way we don't impose our game-destroying desire to lend some real fear to the QUOTE]

    real fear you say?

    I hear most armed forces are hard up for new recruits. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    My time is being wasted without a Death Penalty now. Suicide levelers are rampant in game matches and it substantially diminishes my game-play immersion, fun and expectation when, as a Klingon, I have to PvP, but because of the complete failure of Cryptic to enact some consequence system, kids are just killing themselves in-game to get experience in the quickest fashion possible.

    "Suicide leveling" provides these kids with a qucike and easy method of advancement at my expense, and they get rewarded for losing. I would have hoped to leave the entitlement programs in the real world when I sit down to escape into a game that should be fun, but turns out to be chock full of hand-outs for losers.

    Cryptic is now known for appealing to the bottom-feeders, lowest common denominator of mmorpg gaming; those that feel entitled to always be in a win situation and rewarded for losing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    QUOTE=szurlo;2015538]This way we don't impose our game-destroying desire to lend some real fear to the QUOTE

    real fear you say?

    I hear most armed forces are hard up for new recruits. :D

    Hey I did 10 years in the Navy. My dues are paid :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hello,

    I have to agree with most of the posts here....if the game is going to become both tactical and situational..there needs to be some sort of ship / ground / pve / pvp / raid death penalty.

    If there is no penalty, it kind of defeats the purpose of having different ship types, we would all be better then to put all power in weapons and none in shields,etc and go in guns blazing.

    If we take the Warcraft approach (which I think works) there are different types of penalties for different situations:

    - If you are standard PVE ... put a penalty on dying in the form or weapons / shield / item damage both in space and on the ground...too the point where they fail completely till fixed. This would cost credits and would also help the economy...as right now at Lt Commander 1 (11) I have tons of credits.

    - In PVP, the penalty can be in the form on slower respawn times, or no respawn at all...which means your team suffers, etc. This would stop the guns blazing effect, and add strategy.

    - In Raid(s), make the team members who die ...not respawn AND take damage. This would allow a true tanking, DPS, and healing classes to emerge. If all die, its a wipe and start again. This then also adds strategy and roles to the mix.


    If we don't start these different systems, the game will become very repetitive, with everyone just going in with no worries of dying. Also, this system of DP will allow for a smoother economy in-game and a better rewards system.

    Just my 2 cents.


    Or you could just go play WoW.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    szurlo wrote: »

    Hey I did 10 years in the Navy. My dues are paid :)



    Navy? I said armed forces.. :p
    i kid i kid

    and thank you for your service o7
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    szurlo wrote: »



    Navy? I said armed forces.. :p
    i kid i kid

    and thank you for your service o7

    I would threaten to kill you for that remark but then you know you'd just re-spawn 15 seconds later.:rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Did someone mention in the navy?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Or you could just go play WoW.

    You mean WOW the greatest MMO ever made ? the one with 8 miillion customers at one point ? Any advice taken from WOW is going to be good advice even if 99% of us here are bored of it.
    Plus you post helps this post in no way at all which make you a troll my friend :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I did play Wow.....and what I saw in Wow worked as far as people not running in a getting everyone killed. That happened early in Wow, but they put checks and balances in play to weed out the kamikaze players.

    If we don't put in checks and balances like WOW, then this game will be nothing but 12 year old kids trying to level fast by blowing themselves up for experience points. So far as I can tell, there is a nice range of player ages and sexes....lets keep it that way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There is no right or wrong side of this whole argument. It all comes down to personal preference or customer requirements.

    The thing about customers is that they are generally not one homogeneous group.

    I have played these games since they were text based MUDs, and so have a healthy understanding of death pentalities from "losing everything but your stats" to the "XP/Time taxation" for death.

    I have to honestly say that death penalties do not increase my level of fun... and no matter what others may type in all caps that simply is the truth of the matter.

    I work a full time job, conslut on the side, am in school, volunteer, fence, and many other hobbies. I have a family and friends and so when all of that has been taken care of and I sit down for some fun time... I really do not want to be punished for some mistake or poor grouping or lag... or other risk vs. reward system to make me work hard at having fun as well.

    Case in point I really enjoyed playing city of heroes, however once the death penalty started to grind into me... my level of fun fell like a rock. I recall that I did a mission in a power plant of some sort with my invulnerable tanker. The group I was with did not have "mad skillz" and so we were getting a solid thrashing. My invulnerable tanker proved to be very vulnerable and very quickly I had amassed such an XP debt that when I finally finished the mission (failing it) all I had to show for my evening off work was a set back. I was actually put in a position where it would have been better to not have logged into the game at all that night.

    Suffice to say with that logic, it was only a day or two before I cancelled my account and spent my time and money elsewhere on something that would bring me more fun.
    zenbrillig wrote:
    If you say you don't want a death penalty - aren't you essentially asking for a game you cannot lose?

    Where's the fun in that? If you cannot lose, who cares if you win?

    Zen, not picking on you specifically just using your questions as a sampling of other comments.

    Speaking for myself and only myself: Yes.

    I also play PC games with cheat codes.... let me tell you I enjoy them very much. I have no need to defeat a game. Being able to claim that I defeated a video game with no cheat codes or on extra hard mode gives me nothing in the grand scheme of things. Pride? in beating a hard video game? really? I set my standards of pride a little higher in life.

    I merely enjoy exploring games and playing with them.

    So I do not care if I win.... why should anyone else care if I win? or think that I should not enjoy something easy.

    That being said... I do want to SEE and TRY and GET everything the game can offer... some may argue that I do not deserve to see or get everything it without risk & reward. That is their opinion... they are playing to win and need to feel like they have dragged that purple items from the very jaws of defeat itself! Their vistory is sweeter to them by having to fight for it. I have no time to fight with a video game and make myself feel the alpha male against binary code which can be changed at a moment's notice entirely changing the success factors.

    I am playing to explore and do not want punishing barriers in my way to somehow make a hard victory more worthy of my attention. The penalties frustrate me to the point where I go do something else worthy of my hard work. An MMORPG is not something I want to defeat.

    Final Fantasy RPGs are good for this... as long as I put in my time.. I will eventually get to enjoy all of the game.

    There is nothing fundamentallly wrong with that.

    Now from a PVP point of view.... I WANT TO CRUSH THE LIFE OUT OF MY ENEMIES AND MAKE THEM CRY! but that is an entirely different activity and I am signing up for that competitive challenge against someone worthy of me feeling pride when I stomp them into the ground or get stomped.

    Denny Crane.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    qoojo wrote:
    Did someone mention in the navy?

    Carefull with utube vids, the mod dioandora (or whoever) just gave me an infraction for posting the billy madison debate video:confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I would be happy to see positive reinforcement (rewards) for staying alive, however like I have said many times, there is nothing to stop you inhibiting yourself if you want a negative aspect death penalty.

    How about if somone stays alive for 10 minutes or an hour (or whatever) they get a buff that gets progressivly more powerfull, encouraging people to stay alive.

    The carrot, not the stick is how you enable people to enjoy games.

    Anything besides postive reinforcement is nothing but a time limitation on when you can start having fun again. Did I buy the game so I can be punished for dying accidently due to server drop, rubber banding, lag, or whatever else can cause unintentional death?

    And to cite wow as a precident on how things should be done is also rediculous, the death penalty in wow is nothing but a time sink, pretty much all negative aspect death penaltys are nothing but time sinks, and they are not inovative, or 'fun' in the least.

    As for the guy who gave the vieled insult about me liking doom or battlefield, how on earth does this add anything of value to your rebuttal or to the discussion as a whole?

    Now my idea of inhibiting yourself if thats the kind of death penality you want, may seem simplistic, but its something you can do right away, without the help of cryptic, and if you dont have the dicipline to punish yourself thats your problem not mine, we dont need a 'nanny' to hand out punishments.

    Reward staying alive yes, but dont impliment negative aspect death penalties.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    szurlo wrote: »

    I would threaten to kill you for that remark but then you know you'd just re-spawn 15 seconds later.:rolleyes:

    /Thread

    I now agree with your ideals on DP...and anything else for the matter. :p


    JonnySteel wrote:
    You mean WOW the greatest MMO ever made ? the one with 8 miillion customers at one point ? Any advice taken from WOW is going to be good advice even if 99% of us here are bored of it.
    Plus you post helps this post in no way at all which make you a troll my friend :P

    Wow has made the most money of all MMO's but IMO its far from the best...maybe top ten in game play and replayability.

    Assume everyone thinks WoW is the best and contributing nothing more then your fan boi'ism make you no more then a troll my friend. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You can make your own DP that would make the game far more challenging than something Cryptic could implement (which they have stated time and again they will not). Find a particularly psychotic 5 year old. Give said 5 year old a stake knife. Tell them when ever they see the re-spawn dialogue box they should stab you in the side once. The fun will come when they see any other dialogue box you are at risk of being stabbed anyway. Also, be clear that they are only supposed to stab you while you are playing STO. If they don't know that surfing the net with all those pop-ups will literally be murder!

    If that is not a personally imposed and effective survival incentive, I don't know what is...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Alex1939 wrote: »
    Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.

    It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.

    I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.

    At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!

    There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please. :D

    It is not Wow plain and simple!!

    if you hardcoregamer donte like it got back.

    me as casual i find it ok the way it is so smeg off!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Death penalties only waste player time. We don't need them. It's hard to believe people are actually asking for this punishment.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    stararmy wrote: »
    Death penalties only waste player time. We don't need them. It's hard to believe people are actually asking for this punishment.

    Way I see it, those asking for a negative death penalty (as opposed to rewarding you for staying alive) simply lack the mental dicipline to punish themselves, and want Cryptic to do it for them. Hedonistic, yet lazy :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If you have posted in this thread and suggested "self impose a death penalty" you are a fool that does not understand why people want a death penalty in the first place.
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