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Button mashing solution for space without full autofire
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Space combat, especially in the later Tiers with multiple Energy weapons becomes a button mashing orgy. Besides activating skills and buffs, managing travel and shields, one tries to squezze as much DPS out of the weapon as possible. Currently this results in a hit space bar every second playstyle. Further the somewhat unresponsive UI and server connections often forces the player to hit a button twice to get the desired reaction.
In the forum the general solution for this is give us full autofire for energy weapons, but somewhat Cryptic doesnt like it this way or else it would already be there. As I understand it from official post about weapons mechanics, the idea of not having full auto fire is, that weapons timing and usage through the player should need some skill.
But the current game mechanics do not really support it. The workload already is so high, that the player is almost forced to button mash the space bar, cause if he takes a bit more time, he doesnt get decent DPS with energy weapons and especially cannons. And so many complain about ruining their keyboards and fingers.
Interestingly very few players complain about torpedo or mine usage. So instead of giving autofire to all energy weapons, why not look at torpedos and mines (T&M) and transfer some of their mechanics to energy weapons?
So why is Autofire less important to T&Ms than to cannons?
T&M have a rather long CD and skills boosting T&M generally work on a improves next attack basis. So when firing them it is more important to fire them at the right moment instead of when the CD is ready.
Energy weapons on the opposite and cannons especially have rather low CDs with skills working in a improves cannons for xx seconds matter. Through this for the player it is more important to keep them firing, than to fire at the right moment.
Because of this, my suggestions would be the following:
- increase (double) CDs on all Energy weapons
- change skills like rapid fire to improve i.e. the next 1,2,3 attacks within 30 or 45 seconds
- to compensate for the loss in damage, either increase the length of the firing sequence and number off attacks per sequence, or just increase the base damage
- on cannons increase firing arc to 60° (atleast up/down), because with the firing arc check running over the server and not just client FE it can be a pain to really get of a cannon salvo
- keep the limit of two weapons on autofire in space
Discuss.
P.S.: For ground, please give us the old autofire option for the standard attack back. Thats just MMO Standard.
In the forum the general solution for this is give us full autofire for energy weapons, but somewhat Cryptic doesnt like it this way or else it would already be there. As I understand it from official post about weapons mechanics, the idea of not having full auto fire is, that weapons timing and usage through the player should need some skill.
But the current game mechanics do not really support it. The workload already is so high, that the player is almost forced to button mash the space bar, cause if he takes a bit more time, he doesnt get decent DPS with energy weapons and especially cannons. And so many complain about ruining their keyboards and fingers.
Interestingly very few players complain about torpedo or mine usage. So instead of giving autofire to all energy weapons, why not look at torpedos and mines (T&M) and transfer some of their mechanics to energy weapons?
So why is Autofire less important to T&Ms than to cannons?
T&M have a rather long CD and skills boosting T&M generally work on a improves next attack basis. So when firing them it is more important to fire them at the right moment instead of when the CD is ready.
Energy weapons on the opposite and cannons especially have rather low CDs with skills working in a improves cannons for xx seconds matter. Through this for the player it is more important to keep them firing, than to fire at the right moment.
Because of this, my suggestions would be the following:
- increase (double) CDs on all Energy weapons
- change skills like rapid fire to improve i.e. the next 1,2,3 attacks within 30 or 45 seconds
- to compensate for the loss in damage, either increase the length of the firing sequence and number off attacks per sequence, or just increase the base damage
- on cannons increase firing arc to 60° (atleast up/down), because with the firing arc check running over the server and not just client FE it can be a pain to really get of a cannon salvo
- keep the limit of two weapons on autofire in space
Discuss.
P.S.: For ground, please give us the old autofire option for the standard attack back. Thats just MMO Standard.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Really there is no reason to not have auto fire on energy weapons. It's been said 1000 times it doesn't add anything to the game spamming a spacebar and there is still plenty of other stuff to do. It isn't as though we want auto fire so we can play the game with nothing but the WASD buttons. There is plenty to concentrate on with manageing shields, abilities, and maneuvering (especially with escorts using cannons).
If they really don't want to make it that simple give a passive ability to Tac officers so every rank they gain above Lt. they allow one extra auto fire weapon. So if you have one Commander and one Lt. Commaner Tac officer on your ship you would have 3 additional auto fire options on beam weapons. Make skills work 'on next attack' so you would have to concentrate on when to use your skills for the right weapons. There really is no reason not to just give us auto-fire.
But as i understand it, Cryptic idea behind the limiited autofire was the "timing" thing. And i just gave a suggestion how changes could work in that direction.
P.S. Not to mention Blance Shield button smashing
It is not a requirement that you fire every weapon, every time it is available in order to win an encounter. That's the "goal" for maximum damage output, but you can win without being so exacting.
IF the devs are going to give in to the auto fire crowd, then they really need to do something more interesting with the power management aspect of the game. Make people really decide how often they want to fire those weapons etc... there has to be a greater consequence to firing all the time, especially if you have an auto fire ability on everything.
What are you smoking? How is being able to "fly around and autofire and win" different to "fly around and mash the frigging space bar" and win. Anyone who would do the former could just use a space bar macro if he had to do the latter.
This game is meant to be balanced so that active abilities and positioning matters. If flying around using autofire wins battles that is CRYPTIC's fault and not the fault of the player.
Oh so you haven't actually advanced far enough to have a opinion based in facts. Enjoy autofiring your energy power dry using beams.
1. Autofire
or
2. More damage power to phases with a longer cooldown time that egueals the same DPS and DPM
I have all the attack and hability skills grouped in the bar so that I have all attack related actions on 1 to 8, all deffense related actions on cntrl 1 to 8 and I did put each shield side boosting on alt 8, 4, 6, 2 and general shield regrouping on alt 5 (So I have the cross shape and it is intuitive, and I don't even need to have the "alt" third line open, which I don't like because I like having the faces of my BOs on sight)
9 and 0 I don't use the same way because for some reason they aren't working on my numeric pad. Only in the numbers above the letters of my keyboard (So there I have the items and the transwarp)
That way, I play like starfleet officers man their stations on the series, typing like cracy, instead of button mashing space.
I don't touch the mouse at all (except to look for new targets if they are not firing at me)
To me, that way, the game is much more fun. I'm in charge of each shoot and boost, I know where everything is and what it does, and I know very fast when they are recharged. Autofire I only use for chatting.
The only thing that could make my space fighting experience better would be to hear my BOs during combat instead of the computer and hear them say "Tachion beam activated!" "Boarding shuttles departing!" Boarding team recovered, sir!"
I want to remove the constant mashing of a button, I do not want to remove tactics. Autofire removes the constant mashing of a button, I still have to position my ship properly, use the correct arcs (45" for cannons, broadsides with beams on front and back), I still have to watch my power, design my ship well, and do all kind of things whether I have autofire or not. The only difference is that with one I mash my fire all beams key, with the other, I do not. I prefer the later.
It's not a requirement to fire all weapons on an encounter? what? Dude, if I have a weapons I'm going to fire it. Why would I not fire a weapon if I have energy for it? I understand torps and mines, timing and positioning can help those a lot, but not beams. Beams and turrets are good to fire all the time as long as I have plenty of energy. If I do, there is no reason not to fire them. So that statement made no sense.
The consequence to firing all the time is already in the game. If I have too many weapons, I will run low on energy. However, if I design my ship properly, with EPS, and a good balance of weapons (between torms, beams, turrets and mines), then I should be rewarded for a good design with a ship that can constantly fire. However, I'm just rewarded just now with having to press space bar all the time. No fun.
Beams, turrets, and cannons with their current design are weapons that should be fired all the time as long as I have energy. However, the inability to do so hurts the gameplay. As someone said before, this is a quality of life issue more than anything else. Constantly pressing a button does not equal skill, nor does it make the game more fun. Just more bothersome.
That's cool Arthalas, I'm glad the design works fine for you. That is why we ask for optional autofire. Just the ability to right click more weapons for the nice green border on it. People that do not like that feature are not forced to use it. So as not to make anyone mad. The design does not work for me though, I use the mouse for looking at enemies (that's my right hand gome) and my left for WASD keys for controlling my ship (there goes my left). I have numbers assigned to powers (left hand again), and the shields... well, I use the mouse since my left hand is already quite busy (there goes my right again). So on top of that, I constantly press the space bar to keep firing my weapons (left again). Damn... I don't have 4 hands here.
I do agree with more audio queues, that would be fun and make the ship more lively
Thats the hole point,
If the captain said Fire at Will constantly!
He would have said that once.
But here, he would say,,, Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will Fire at Will
Will Riker would feal like someone is stepping on his grave all day!
Now, seriously. What I think of autofire.
Right now, hitting the fire buttons (whatever you use) all the time is very similar to autofire, so, it is true that actually giving access to full autofire could seem reasonable as it seems like it is only allowing you to have more hand freedom for other things, but that would also work for the habilities, as you may want to autoactivate boarding shuttles whenever they are ready by themselves or a tachion beam as soon as it is inside the targeting arch.
In other thread somewhere, a few days ago, someone asked for the hability to walk his bridge while his helmsman drove the ship so that he could give them orders in character during battle.
There has to be a limit to how much your character (your ship, in this case) is able to play by itself without your input.
Evidently, most of the strategy in combat is related with movig the ship around, so autopiloted combat sounds like a no-no for most people.
But I have to agree that giving autofire to all weapons damages the product, because then you only fly around and activate habilities now and then.
Human error posibility is needed for appropiate PVP confrontations. Right now, you are able to activate all your beam weapons to automatic and care only for the torpedoes (for example). Adding more autofiring would mean that most of the fighting is done by itself, and would diminish the human component of being in a MMO, which is ultimately what this is.
Hum... No, it's not the same thing. Autofire on abilities is not a good idea because of their large cooldown. There are times when some abilities are better to use than other times. Why would I want to use emergency power to shields if my shields are up? Why would I want to use brace for impact if I'm not targeted? Why would I want to use tachyon beam of the enemies shields are down? etc. That also applies to weapons like torpedoes and mines. Torpedoes are awesome against unshielded targets, mines are useless if the enemy is far. All of those weapons and abilities require some kind of decision making and timing to make them effective.
However, that is not the case with beams turrets and cannons. The only requirement for those weapons is that I have enough energy. Other than that, there is no decision if I should fire them or not. Energy weapons are good against a shielded target (to lower shields) are good against an unshielded target (to keep the shields down and extra hull damage), they are good against any facing of the enemy ship (lower more shields so the enemy has to transfer, and also some bleed through). There is no decision to be made for energy weapons. They are good to fire under all circumstances.
Unfortunately, that also creates a problem that we have to constantly press the space bar (or whatever button) to keep them firing. That is what I want to avoid, that constant pressing of a button that does not take any decision making from me. I have energy, the weapons better damn be firing!
Raximillian, you have given me the most educated and nice disagreement I've readed in this forum so far. If It was posible to give possitive reports "Take note of him, he is nice, kind and educated, and it is nice to talk to him even when he disagrees" I would positively report you.
+100 internet points to you.
My point was about the human error posibility and the "PVP fighting against people" thing .
But you don't need to hit space constantly. You can autofire both forward and backwards beam weapons and fire only when the torpedoes are ready.
Thanks for the positive response
And there is where the problem comes in. We can only have 1 front and 1 rear weapon for autofire. That is not too bad on the miranda, or on the T2 ship, as it has few weapons. But as ships get larger, and we get more weapons (tier 5, 4/4 cruiser, 4/2 escort, 3/3 science), then things become quite complicated :S
I currently have a T2 science vessel. I tried mines, and did not like them. So I have this setup:
Front: beam array, quamtum torp
Rear: beam array, beam array
I like the setup, I have enough energy. But I can only set 1 of the rear beams to autofire, so the other I have to press fire all beams every few seconds. That's not too bad now, but when I get to the T5 ship, I was planning to setup 2/2 beam arrays, quantum torp and rear turret (with EPS of course). That setup would probably drive me crazy with the button mashing :S
Anyway. Really you're finding it better to have two beam weapons on the same side instead of a torpedoe shooter that can hit hard on the hull when the beams have eaten the shields?
We need either full autofire (Which would be optional, remember), or a remake of all space energy weapons (double/triple cooldown, and matching either the firing sequence length or the damage so that it results in the same overall dps).
I can guarantee that if this issue is not resolved with the first big patch many people will either leave, get one of those stupid "I play the game for you" keyboards, or get some third party software to handle the autofiring issue. (And using third party software to manipulate the game client is considered illegal afaik)
Pressing spacebar twice per second without a break for battles that can last up to five minutes is just too much for the human hand to handle over a long period of time. It'd make all STO players cripples.
I use my science vessel with plenty of energy on auxiliary and a combat impulse engine. I can turn pretty quick, so I have no problem switching between broadside and facing for a torpedo when needed. I fight normally at 1/2 or 1/4 impulse since that gives me the best maneuverability with my combat impulse engines at low power. Having another rear torp launcher would be pretty useless for me, I would never fire it. I prefer the extra beam for more uuumph against shields (and they are not bad on hulls!). The only problem with that setup is the damn lack of autofire
Your probly not the minority of the gamers. You are only the minority of those to lazy to tap the space bar, and start thread after thread on this subject.
Try taping the space bar instead of mashing it. Mashing it WONT get you any more DPS. And how can a ship be "Properly" designed if you cant or dont want to fire the weapons?
Mashing is just a term for "constantly and mindlessly pressing the space bar". I want a tactical game (and that is what this is supposed to be, right?) not an arcade game (and that is definitely what this is NOT supposed to be). I have plenty of things to do besides worrying if my beams are firing. I have torpedoes to take care of, abilities, my facing, enemy facing, shield strength, enemy shield strength, other enemies, getting surrounded, etc, etc, etc, and on top of that, I have to constantly tap my space bar... With no tactical decision... just tap... That's it.
Also, we are asking for this to be OPTIONAL, if you do not like it, you do not have to use it. That is what optional means. No one is forcing you to use if if you do not like it.
Not to be rude (we've all got our opinions) but how any fingers do you have on each hand? I only have 5 and they aren't all opposable! How would an autofire button create an "I Win" scenario? I have to manage my ship position, shields, special abilities, and make sure I can see my next target to attack since I can only attack what I can see (because in the 25th century the use of radar is only to identify, not target). Were I Vishnu this might work, but right now it's can be a bit of a headache.
The shields of my opponent only stay down for a second or two so I am forced to mash my beams while putting myself in position to fire my torps. Frankly, I feel like it is often easier to arm dual heavy cannons (no torp) and attack head on at all times... sadly with a cow (cruiser) the mobility isn't always there to make this tactic effective.
As a captain I tell my tactical officer to use phasers on the battlecruiser over yonder, he better not stop firing until the jobs done or it's going to be a court marshal for him (dereliction of duty)! Somethings got to give.
But if you PvP with it then it will affect me. I have to do the same things you do in my ship. If you beat me cool as long as its your effort and not a cryptic algorythm doing it. Hitting the space bar isnt skill it is effort.
Dude, I can already have it with one of those gaming keyboards, or a simple macro program (autohotkey) and many people have those programmable gaming keyboards. So, your point?
This is a problem with game mechanics. It takes no skill, you say it takes a little effort, but what do I get back for that effort (other than carpal tunnel)? nothing. So Cryptic should remove it.
They aren't going to give it to one guy and not another...PvP footing will still be on equal terms. And it really doesn't come down to effort either. If some guy beats you by constantly pushing his space bar he didn't really put any more effort into it than if his beam weapons were on autofire. He beat you because he maneuvered better than you did and balanced his survival skills with keeping his damage on the same shield facing better than you did. The requests are not about gaining any kind of advantage in combat for anyone. They are about shifting the skill and effort into the tactical aspect of the game rather than the button mashing. As it is now it's the equivilant of rotational macros in WoW as a Hunter. Sit there and mash the 1 button and move out of the AoE effects from bosses. No one is asking for auto attack on skills or torps or mines.
Think of it in terms of what we're doing. As a captain of a starship I don't have to tell my Tac officer when to fire phasers over and over I can tell him to fire at will and spend my time planning the actual tactical part of the battle.
This. More chess, less whack-a-mole.
Try cannons. Hitting the space bar fires ONE cannon and puts the rest on a short cooldown. I then have to hit the space bar after 1-2 seconds to get the next to go. The cool downs are so short that I am NOT GOING TO WATCH THEM CAREFULLY.
Cannons are so finicky atm that the only way to get max dps is to spam space bar.
What I don't understand is why they haven't realized autofire will not prevent this, it will just annoy those that use cannons or just want all weapons to fire constantly and to heck with the power.
allowing all weapons (bar perhaps the projectile ones) to be auto fired will allow those with cannons to pay more attention to their position and skills (its extremely necessary with such a small arc) allow those using lots of beams to still fire strategically power wise as they don't HAVE to turn autofire on, and let those that just want to pound all weapons constantly to do so without having to complain endlessly about it.